8 replies to this topic

[navyblue]

For me, piracetam is by far the best supplement I have ever taken (next to ashwagandha) especially when it comes to productivity, reading, writing, and energy. I feel like a newer and improved version of myself (this is short-lived).

The major downside is that after about 2 - 3 days (taking 1440mg 3x/day), my memory retrieval goes way down to the point that i forget simple things (feels like dementia), its like my brain processing speed just takes a nose dive. I also become very aloof like I am not even there with this like blank stare on my face, just really really spaced out I guess. The thing is that even dmae (although it enhances my concentration) will space me out as well, just not as bad as piracetam. I do not notice any physical symptoms, but I will get a pretty bad headache if I take it with ashwagandha. I've tried taking it with choline citrate and also tried taking it with bulknutrition's alpha-gpc 50% mix. I have tried taking the piracetam and choline along without taking other supplements to try and pin-point the problem, but to no avail. I'm totally lost on this.

The crazy thing is the ashwagandha boost my memory a great deal, the problem with it is it give me tightness around my head. Ashwagandha also make me productive in an unhealthy way i guess. I just want to like run people over to get what I have to get done, done. Also, it really doesn't even compare to piracetam on any level except for memory improvement.

Has anyone else experienced these symptoms before?

Edited by navyblue, 25 January 2009 - 10:03 PM.

[revnik]

I've experienced them before yes.
Sometimes is just doesn't work for me either. Other times it does wonders!
Maybe add some extra vitamin b (b5 and/or complex) and magnesium..

For me, piracetam is by far the best supplement I have ever taken (next to ashwagandha) especially when it comes to productivity, reading, writing, and energy. I feel like a newer and improved version of myself (this is short-lived).

The major downside is that after about 2 - 3 days (taking 1440mg 3x/day), my memory retrieval goes way down to the point that i forget simple things (feels like dementia), its like my brain processing speed just takes a nose dive. I also become very aloof like I am not even there with this like blank stare on my face, just really really spaced out I guess. The thing is that even dmae (although it enhances my concentration) will space me out as well, just not as bad as piracetam. I do not notice any physical symptoms, but I will get a pretty bad headache if I take it with ashwagandha. I've tried taking it with choline citrate and also tried taking it with bulknutrition's alpha-gpc 50% mix. I have tried taking the piracetam and choline along without taking other supplements to try and pin-point the problem, but to no avail. I'm totally lost on this.

The crazy thing is the ashwagandha boost my memory a great deal, the problem with it is it give me tightness around my head. Ashwagandha also make me productive in an unhealthy way i guess. I just want to like run people over to get what I have to get done, done. Also, it really doesn't even compare to piracetam on any level except for memory improvement.

Has anyone else experienced these symptoms before?

[navyblue]

hey revnik, thanks for the quick reply. I do have a bottle of b50 complex thats almost full and magnesium so i'll give them a shot as i do need to round up a list of my possible options.

i was watching one of dr. amen's speeches and might also try some 5htp as i suffer from diagnosed ptsd, and add. i would try st. johns wort like he recommends, but even just one pill of that along with some fish oil will give me crushing headaches.

sorry to hear it did not work for you either, it seems like a lot of the nootropics have this "dying off" effect.

[revnik]

hey revnik, thanks for the quick reply. I do have a bottle of b50 complex thats almost full and magnesium so i'll give them a shot as i do need to round up a list of my possible options.

i was watching one of dr. amen's speeches and might also try some 5htp as i suffer from diagnosed ptsd, and add. i would try st. johns wort like he recommends, but even just one pill of that along with some fish oil will give me crushing headaches.

sorry to hear it did not work for you either, it seems like a lot of the nootropics have this "dying off" effect.

Stress triggers an increased release of acetylcholine, and i believe that this effects is permanent with ptsd..?
So you might not need any extra choline,
increasing seratonin doesn't sound like a good idea to me either cause that might have a dulling effect also (you can try offcourse i'm not a doctor or anything:)

I'm thinking you need anything that would increase dopamine and does increases your drive & focus.
Every tried tyrosine (or more extreme: selegeline)?

I might be wrong on this...
Good luck!

Edited by revnik, 25 January 2009 - 10:57 PM.

[navyblue]

revnik, you are spot on about the stress. the therapist at that time said that my body is under constant stress and has been that way for many years. especially because she said that i have complex ptsd which is i guess is the constant version of ptsd.

the dopamine part is interesting. when i take l-tyrosine, i become irritable, and again get tension headaches. When i take adderall, its as if i just swallowed 10 cups of coffee. adderall gives me the ability to multitask very well. unfortunately i get very tired and my brain feels exhausted after it wears off. i could sleep for hours. almost like i had been on speed. the other thing is that the affects of the adderall seem to wear off after about 3 days as well. then when i start increasing the dosage i start to become irritable (maybe serotonin would help here) and get tension headaches as well. i do think that you are right about the dopamine though, as i have restless leg syndrome when my dopamine is low.

for serotonin i have tried lexapro, zoloft, and paxil. they all work great in that i'm in a good positive mood, and become very outgoing. it doesn't seem to do anything for the add though. the other downside to this is that i get restless leg syndrome really, really bad, so bad that i start the get the same symptoms in my arms, it is extremely uncomfortable. i can even live with the sexual side effects, but the rls would be tough. i just tried 50mg of 5htp earlier right after my last post and it made me a bit sleepy so i took a nap (hence why it took so long for me to respond). i did feel kind of good though, but tired. i would try st. john's wort but the headaches it causes me are too much.

i'm thinking that if the lexapro, paxil, and/or zoloft (not sure about 5-htp yet) increased my rls, then maybe taking something that increases dopamine would lessen the effects of the rls? i tried requip by itself (which increases dopamine levels) before and it helped the rls, but i had to keep increasing the dosage to keep getting the benefits. and when the dosage got up to 1mg i became very irritable. i wonder what would have happened if i had been taking something with serotonin, if that would have leveled things out? anyway when i came off the requip, my rls was worse than they had ever been before. it was unbearable. what do you think about wellbutrin? from what i understand it increases serotonin and dopamine (or norepinephrene, not sure)

i wonder if the years of high stress levels have really screwed up my brain.

[revnik]

revnik, you are spot on about the stress. the therapist at that time said that my body is under constant stress and has been that way for many years. especially because she said that i have complex ptsd which is i guess is the constant version of ptsd.

the dopamine part is interesting. when i take l-tyrosine, i become irritable, and again get tension headaches. When i take adderall, its as if i just swallowed 10 cups of coffee. adderall gives me the ability to multitask very well. unfortunately i get very tired and my brain feels exhausted after it wears off. i could sleep for hours. almost like i had been on speed. the other thing is that the affects of the adderall seem to wear off after about 3 days as well. then when i start increasing the dosage i start to become irritable (maybe serotonin would help here) and get tension headaches as well. i do think that you are right about the dopamine though, as i have restless leg syndrome when my dopamine is low.

for serotonin i have tried lexapro, zoloft, and paxil. they all work great in that i'm in a good positive mood, and become very outgoing. it doesn't seem to do anything for the add though. the other downside to this is that i get restless leg syndrome really, really bad, so bad that i start the get the same symptoms in my arms, it is extremely uncomfortable. i can even live with the sexual side effects, but the rls would be tough. i just tried 50mg of 5htp earlier right after my last post and it made me a bit sleepy so i took a nap (hence why it took so long for me to respond). i did feel kind of good though, but tired. i would try st. john's wort but the headaches it causes me are too much.

i'm thinking that if the lexapro, paxil, and/or zoloft (not sure about 5-htp yet) increased my rls, then maybe taking something that increases dopamine would lessen the effects of the rls? i tried requip by itself (which increases dopamine levels) before and it helped the rls, but i had to keep increasing the dosage to keep getting the benefits. and when the dosage got up to 1mg i became very irritable. i wonder what would have happened if i had been taking something with serotonin, if that would have leveled things out? anyway when i came off the requip, my rls was worse than they had ever been before. it was unbearable. what do you think about wellbutrin? from what i understand it increases serotonin and dopamine (or norepinephrene, not sure)

i wonder if the years of high stress levels have really screwed up my brain.

I don't know much 'bout wellbutrin but from what i understand it increases dopamine and norepinephrene. Don't think that it affects serotonin in any way. It might be worth a try be carefull because the norephinephrene could be tricky. It would seek extra advice on this one, hopefully somebody else can help you out.

Do some research on the magnesium, it could really help with the headache and irritability (and anxiety etc).
Also maybe consider some ALCAR or Modafinil. These could be of great help too..

[navyblue]

thanks again revnik will give those supplements a shot to see how things go. something has to change as i cannot continue on like this any longer.

[mentatpsi]

a lot of anecdotes show welbutrin increases brain fog.

That's an interesting effect from ashwagandha as i thought it primarily has a sedative quality. But it is known as Indian Ginseng.

Also in regards to adderall, the regulation after the couple days is supposed to happen. Increasing dosages based on regulation would run the risk of addiction.

Have you tried; theanine? I'm not sure, but it seems theoritically it would help with piracetam given an increase in gaba which seems to help. Piracetam is a very complex nootropic to play around with -.-". In that regard it blows lol.

Edited by mysticpsi, 14 March 2009 - 10:16 AM.

[samonakuba]

I've gotten all sorts of brain-foggy symptoms after *discontinuing* Piracetam/Choline. It's happened to me twice: 1) After taking Piracetam + PPC/AGPC/ALCAR for ~3 months and stopping for 4 months 2) After taking Piracetam + Choline Citrate for ~5 months and stopping for 6.

The sense of it is difficult to describe, but it's amounted to a sort of detached and "blah" quality to my everyday thinking and feeling, as though the color and definition has been sucked out of everything and concepts have lost their associative richness. Also, I've experienced a distinct flattening affect. It's been the same both times and, in my estimation, I'm actually at a lower point than before I first began taking Piracetam. At the very least, I'm far less analytical in cognitive temperament, which has caused me considerable concern.

I can't quite attribute these effects to the Piracetam itself because I don't feel like I have enough information to hypothesize a mechanism, but I think I'm going to lay off of it a while. It's been the first supplement to give me these kinds of long term brain-fog effects. For instance I tried an ALCAR/PS/ALA stack for a while and it left me feeling great months after discontinuing, and same goes for PPC by itself, or even SAM-E by itself. There's also this article, which I found less than encouraging, given my experience. YMMV, of course.

For the time being I've just added Citicoline to my simple Multi/B50/Fish Oil stack, so I suppose I'll see how that goes.

Edited by samonakuba, 14 March 2009 - 12:26 PM.