177 replies to this topic

[krillin]

Here's a paper on amitriptyline's anti-pain mechanism.

So they are basically concluding that it reduces pain because it reduces pain. What am I missing?

The key words for me were "central sensitization". You can also look up "wind up". Amitriptylene could be reducing it by blocking sodium channels.

Arch Pharm Res. 2008 Feb;31(2):178-82.
Effects of carbamazepine and amitriptyline on tetrodotoxinresistant Na+ channels in immature rat trigeminal ganglion neurons.
Hur YK, Choi IS, Cho JH, Park EJ, Choi JK, Choi BJ, Jang IS.
Department of Oral Medicine, School of Dentistry, Kyungpook National University, Daegu 700-412, Korea.

Although anticonvulsant drugs that block voltage-dependent Na+ channels have been widely used for neuropathic pain, including peripheral nerve injury-induced pain, much less is known about the actions of these drugs on immature trigeminal ganglion (TG) neurons. Here we report the effects of carbamazepine (CBZ) and amitriptyline (ATL) on tetrodotoxin-resistant (TTX-R) Na' channels expressed on immature rat TG neurons. TTX-R Na+ currents (I(Na)) were recorded in the presence of 300 nM TTX by use of a conventional whole-cell patch clamp method. Both CBZ and ATL inhibited TTX-R I(Na) in a concentration-dependent manner, but ATL was more potent. While CBZ and ATL did not affect the overall voltage-activation relationship of TTX-R Na+ channels, both drugs shifted the voltage-activation relationship to the left, indicating that they inhibited TTX-R Na+ channels more efficiently at depolarized membrane potentials. ATL showed a profound use-dependent blockade of TTX-R I(Na), but CBZ had little effect. The present results suggest that both CBZ and ATL, common drugs used for treating neuropathic pain, efficiently inhibit TTX-R Na+ channels expressed on immature TG neurons, and that these drugs might be useful for the treatment of trigeminal nerve injury-induced neuropathic pain, as well as the inhibition of ongoing central sensitization, even during immature periods.

PMID: 18365687

[katzenjammer]

My experience isn't that my joints become painful - it's that they seem looser. I was surmising that perhaps the resv is reducing e2 > less synovial fluid > more space in the joint. And, for those who have cartilage wear & tear, that could = pain.

[2tender]

"Looser" in terms of anti-inflammatory perhaps?

[katzenjammer]

"Looser" in terms of anti-inflammatory perhaps?

I can't say for sure but I don't think so. I'm basing this on experiences that bodybuilders have with arimidex: when they push e2 too low, their joints start to hurt. Supposedly, the reason why is that when e2 is too low, normal levels of synovial fluid are not present in joints. Less lubrication > more friction > more pain.

What I'm thinking is whether resv is reducing synovial fluid in a similar manner. It's a long shot I know - for one thing, resv.'s action on e2 is weak at best. But I was then thinking, if it *can* reduce synovial fluid, why can't that lead to pain in some cases, or to "looser joints" in others? - what I mean by looser joints is that without a full supply of fluid there is more "space" in the joint. For example, a few days ago I jumped up to the pull up bar, and dangling for a moment, it felt like my knees were loose, like my lower legs were going to fall off at the knee. I know that sounds weird - but before resv. I've never felt anything like that. I've never had joint issues either.

HOpe this doesn't sound crazy. Not scientific I know. Just brainstorming.

[nowayout]

"Looser" in terms of anti-inflammatory perhaps?

I can't say for sure but I don't think so.

Another plausible explanation is that resveratrol may alter muscle tonus. I have seen other anecdotal accounts of resveratrol making people feel looser or more flexible, and I believe I experienced it myself. A change in tonus can lead to joint imbalances or instabilities that can very easily cause joint or tendon injuries.

Edited by andre, 17 April 2009 - 12:53 PM.

[2tender]

Any joint pain I experienced seems to be fading, I have taken a break from exercise though, tonus is still good.

[Frankie]

I am not sure if it's at all related but I was just reading this blurb on a study of the side effects of Statins:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090127090735.htm

Apparently the muscle and joint effects of statins are related to Coenzyme Q10 depletion. I will read up on this in more detail when I have some free time but I thought I would throw it out there and see what people think.

FWIW my joint and muscle issues (including weird loud popping sounds from my back when I sat in my computer chair) went away when I decreased my dosage of resveratrol from 1 gram to 500mg a day.

Sorry for the delayed response... All statin (cholesterol lowering) drugs can and do cause muscle/joint pain and damage which can progress to a life threatening condition called "Rhabdomyolsis".
I manage a support group (600+ members) and created a website with a wealth of information on the topic titled, Stopped Our Statins .

CoQ10 depletion is the primary deficiency causing pain/damage, but Carnitine and Vitamin D3 deficiencies are also possible.

Fran

[Dmitri]

It has been proposed that any autoimmune disease could be aggravated by resveratrol, and helped my niacinamide/niacin.

What actually is niacinamide? is found in plants, made by animals or synthetic?

It's a form of Vitamin B3 and can be found in many foods such as yeast, meat, fish, milk, eggs, green vegetables, and cereal grains.

[garryb]

None the less, all studies with resveratrol have shown it to protect joints rather potently. Even if increased pain or inflammation is occurring, the joints are likely still in good shape, and modulating resveratrol and/or niacinamide should be all that is needed to reverse the condition.

That does not seem likely if you consider that some of us are still suffering long after stopping resveratrol.

There is at least one instance I know of where resveratrol contaminated by excessive amounts of mercury made it into a 50% supplement. The joint/tendon pain symptoms, and some descriptions of mental confusion or fog are consistent with mercury poisoning. This could persist for a long time if heavy-metal chelation is not done. I do not know if any of the individuals complaining of such symptoms had their mercury levels checked. With treatment, mercury poisoning is usually completely reversible.

Let me caution first that I guess we will never know whether all this was definitely due to resveratrol. I made the association later because of the very strong and sudden appearance of agonizing pain in the rhomboid-scapular attachment area the days on and after starting res, and then the chronic tendinitis, causing me to do some research that brought me to the large number of similar complaints in these forums.

No brain fog or mental confusion in my case. Just the chronic tendinitis and possibly some bursitis. Only soft tissues are affected, and tests, X-rays and MRIs have shown that I have absolutely no RA or any other problems with cartilage or bone, as confirmed by a rheumatologist.

The impaired healing hypothesis seems plausible to me. Anyone who walks, climbs steps, gets in an out of a car, carries groceries, or even rolls over in bed, not to mention those who exercise regularly, will challenge a tendon or muscle now and then. I am talking about such minor injuries that you don't even feel a couple of minutes later, never mind the next day. But I remember very well that on the first weekend I took resveratrol, a minor rhomboid sprain suddenly magnified into agony. To this day it has not healed, and soon I realized that I was even getting injured during these everyday normal use challenges that were not healing, not to mention during exercise, and as a result of this things snowballed until all my major joints were affected. I only took resveratrol for about a month, but these symptoms continued worsening for about four or five months after stopping resveratrol.

Over the past month I have seen some improvement, but I am taking a pain modifier, so it is hard to know if the improvement is real. As for doing plenty of exercise, no, I do what I can but I am down to about 10% to 20% of the (moderate) weights I was lifting 7 months ago. There are middle-aged women who use heavier weights. As for cardio, at the worst I could jog for four minutes every third day about four months after stopping resveratrol until the pain told me I was injuring myself more. Now I have recovered to the extent that I can run 15 minutes every second day.

So yes, in my case there has definitely been impaired healing.

Andre, kindly remind us of what kind (percentage) and dose of resveratrol you were taking, for how long, and how long since you stopped that the pain persisted, with or without any alleviation? Thank you.

It was LifeTime Resveratrol liquid bought from Whole Foods. It contains 300mg resveratrol per serving, but also some other things like pomegranate, blueberry, etc. I took an amount containing between 300 and 600 mg of resveratrol daily for about a month. Stopped about six months ago. Pain in rhomboid-scapular region appeared almost immediately and is still chronic and limiting, though not continuously agonizing any more (but it has its moments). Tendinitis started that first month but continued snowballing for at least four months after stopping. Some alleviation this past month on a pain modifier.

So what have Rats got to do with the Human body

[garryb]

Here's a paper on amitriptyline's anti-pain mechanism.

So they are basically concluding that it reduces pain because it reduces pain. What am I missing?

The key words for me were "central sensitization". You can also look up "wind up". Amitriptylene could be reducing it by blocking sodium channels.

Arch Pharm Res. 2008 Feb;31(2):178-82.
Effects of carbamazepine and amitriptyline on tetrodotoxinresistant Na+ channels in immature rat trigeminal ganglion neurons.
Hur YK, Choi IS, Cho JH, Park EJ, Choi JK, Choi BJ, Jang IS.
Department of Oral Medicine, School of Dentistry, Kyungpook National University, Daegu 700-412, Korea.

Although anticonvulsant drugs that block voltage-dependent Na+ channels have been widely used for neuropathic pain, including peripheral nerve injury-induced pain, much less is known about the actions of these drugs on immature trigeminal ganglion (TG) neurons. Here we report the effects of carbamazepine (CBZ) and amitriptyline (ATL) on tetrodotoxin-resistant (TTX-R) Na' channels expressed on immature rat TG neurons. TTX-R Na+ currents (I(Na)) were recorded in the presence of 300 nM TTX by use of a conventional whole-cell patch clamp method. Both CBZ and ATL inhibited TTX-R I(Na) in a concentration-dependent manner, but ATL was more potent. While CBZ and ATL did not affect the overall voltage-activation relationship of TTX-R Na+ channels, both drugs shifted the voltage-activation relationship to the left, indicating that they inhibited TTX-R Na+ channels more efficiently at depolarized membrane potentials. ATL showed a profound use-dependent blockade of TTX-R I(Na), but CBZ had little effect. The present results suggest that both CBZ and ATL, common drugs used for treating neuropathic pain, efficiently inhibit TTX-R Na+ channels expressed on immature TG neurons, and that these drugs might be useful for the treatment of trigeminal nerve injury-induced neuropathic pain, as well as the inhibition of ongoing central sensitization, even during immature periods.


PMID: 18365687

I have had the same as well as red blotchy hands, when I stop taking Longevinex it goes away and starts all up a day after taking it, I have not tried any other brands

edited to fix html formatting -- Max Watt

Edited by maxwatt, 27 April 2009 - 11:27 AM.

[maxwatt]

I have had the same [problems as above] as well as red blotchy hands, when I stop taking Longevinex it goes away and starts all up a day after taking it, I have not tried any other brands

Red blotchy hands would be a first. You pills contain other ingredients besides resveratrol, in fact they have more quercetin than resveratrol, but none of its ingredients are known to cause your symptom. I assume you will stop taking this brand. IF you try another brand, kindly report back to us whether you have this symptom or not.

[2tender]

I have had the same [problems as above] as well as red blotchy hands, when I stop taking Longevinex it goes away and starts all up a day after taking it, I have not tried any other brands

Red blotchy hands would be a first. You pills contain other ingredients besides resveratrol, in fact they have more quercetin than resveratrol, but none of its ingredients are known to cause your symptom. I assume you will stop taking this brand. IF you try another brand, kindly report back to us whether you have this symptom or not.

Agreed. I would be interested in that feedback as well. I couldnt find the actual "supplement facts" that lists everything contained anywhere on the box or in the literature. That did not bode well for me, I did get side effects from it, that stopped once I quit ingesting it. I havent seen their ad anywhere either lately. After the attempted Revgen "smear" on their website I think they will soon re-formulate. I liked the way the box was designed though.

[maxwatt]

I have had the same [problems as above] as well as red blotchy hands, when I stop taking Longevinex it goes away and starts all up a day after taking it, I have not tried any other brands

Red blotchy hands would be a first. You pills contain other ingredients besides resveratrol, in fact they have more quercetin than resveratrol, but none of its ingredients are known to cause your symptom. I assume you will stop taking this brand. IF you try another brand, kindly report back to us whether you have this symptom or not.

Agreed. I would be interested in that feedback as well. I couldnt find the actual "supplement facts" that lists everything contained anywhere on the box or in the literature. That did not bode well for me, I did get side effects from it, that stopped once I quit ingesting it. I havent seen their ad anywhere either lately. After the attempted Revgen "smear" on their website I think they will soon re-formulate. I liked the way the box was designed though.

The US label does not list the amount of all contents. In Europe, they are required to list everything. Smeone sent me an image of the European label, which is how I und how much querctin and ferulic acid is in it.

[2tender]

I have had the same [problems as above] as well as red blotchy hands, when I stop taking Longevinex it goes away and starts all up a day after taking it, I have not tried any other brands

Red blotchy hands would be a first. You pills contain other ingredients besides resveratrol, in fact they have more quercetin than resveratrol, but none of its ingredients are known to cause your symptom. I assume you will stop taking this brand. IF you try another brand, kindly report back to us whether you have this symptom or not.

Agreed. I would be interested in that feedback as well. I couldnt find the actual "supplement facts" that lists everything contained anywhere on the box or in the literature. That did not bode well for me, I did get side effects from it, that stopped once I quit ingesting it. I havent seen their ad anywhere either lately. After the attempted Revgen "smear" on their website I think they will soon re-formulate. I liked the way the box was designed though.

The US label does not list the amount of all contents. In Europe, they are required to list everything. Smeone sent me an image of the European label, which is how I und how much querctin and ferulic acid is in it.

Yes, I had seen that posted elsewhere, but I was so underwhelmed with the product that I didnt bother to research it. Im experiencing, fat loss, increased stamina, enrgy, and better mood, the joint pain is virtually non-existent. I have stopped lifting weights as a periodized break. I take a multiple, NAC/RLA capsule, Creatine, whey and glutamine on a semi-irregular basis. The most popular 99% micronized, 250 mgs oral Resveratrol and the most popular TD Resveratrol are the only supplements I take on a daily basis. I am not experiencing any overt or attributable sides at this point.

[spp]

I have been a long time user of resveratrol in many different forms ( at one point 2gms a day). I started out with 50% about 2 years ago then moved to 98% and then moved to 98% microtized. Many of you long term members may remember my previous posts. I began to have joint problems not long after taking resveratrol, about 3 months. It started in the hips. A mild problem but noticable. Then moved to my shoulders, fingers, feet, calves and forearms. over many months. During this time I made many posts., which one can research. I tried many combinations during this period such as dropping all other supplements and only using 98% resveratrol. I made sure that that I waited for atleast 1 month on any conbination before I reported the results. Despite all my results, I still had joint/tendion pain, mostly joint pain. Many people on this board at the time claimed that the joint pain was a myth. Now many of those same people have experienced what I did. After ordering over $300 worth of 98% microtized I decided that it was best to drop resveratrol. My joint problems went away in about a month but I still had flar-ups for at least 2 or 3 months. After this period I did try resveratrol a couple of times and within a couple of days of taking it, at only a 300mg dose, I would start to have joint pain. There seems to be some type of lingering effect.

During my time taking resveartrol and the joint pain I was taking Coq 10 (50mg) and a multivitamin with nician (110mg), which many have talked about in this thread. I also took resveratrol for periods where I was not taking anything else. Neither made any difference in the joint pain.

All I can tell you guys is that the joint pain problems is very very real for some people. Something is going on and I hope that we find out what it is.

Recently I have started taking the 300mg microtized once a week without problems. I'm going to take it slow. I've got to do something with all that resveratrol in the freezer.

I encourage you to review my historical posts.

FWIW, when I started taking resveratrol, I noticed a small amount of joint pain in the knees and hip after about 10 days. For other reasons, I started taking lyprinol soon after that time, and noticed that the pain had disappeared after a few days.

[alexd]

I have been a long time user of resveratrol in many different forms ( at one point 2gms a day). I started out with 50% about 2 years ago then moved to 98% and then moved to 98% microtized. Many of you long term members may remember my previous posts. I began to have joint problems not long after taking resveratrol, about 3 months. It started in the hips. A mild problem but noticable. Then moved to my shoulders, fingers, feet, calves and forearms. over many months. During this time I made many posts., which one can research. I tried many combinations during this period such as dropping all other supplements and only using 98% resveratrol. I made sure that that I waited for atleast 1 month on any conbination before I reported the results. Despite all my results, I still had joint/tendion pain, mostly joint pain. Many people on this board at the time claimed that the joint pain was a myth. Now many of those same people have experienced what I did. After ordering over $300 worth of 98% microtized I decided that it was best to drop resveratrol. My joint problems went away in about a month but I still had flar-ups for at least 2 or 3 months. After this period I did try resveratrol a couple of times and within a couple of days of taking it, at only a 300mg dose, I would start to have joint pain. There seems to be some type of lingering effect.

During my time taking resveartrol and the joint pain I was taking Coq 10 (50mg) and a multivitamin with nician (110mg), which many have talked about in this thread. I also took resveratrol for periods where I was not taking anything else. Neither made any difference in the joint pain.

All I can tell you guys is that the joint pain problems is very very real for some people. Something is going on and I hope that we find out what it is.

Recently I have started taking the 300mg microtized once a week without problems. I'm going to take it slow. I've got to do something with all that resveratrol in the freezer.

I encourage you to review my historical posts.

FWIW, when I started taking resveratrol, I noticed a small amount of joint pain in the knees and hip after about 10 days. For other reasons, I started taking lyprinol soon after that time, and noticed that the pain had disappeared after a few days.

perhaps someone can add their insight to my situation. I have been taking resveratrol in the form of an extract of japenese knotweed root for about two years. Assuming about 50% trans resveratrol I take 2-3 gms a day. No problamatic laxitive effects. I never had any problem and have experianced many postitive effects.

I the last week or so I have experianced some joint pain. The only things that seem to be different is that about 3 months ago I started taking Provigil (50mg day) and Piracetam currently about 1.2 gms a day, and 1/4 tps of choline chloride a day. I am wondering if those substances might be creating a product. With Piracetam I started at 400mg aday. without any noticable probem. The nootropic effects have been postive. I am going to stop taking the resveratrol for a few day to see if there is a change. I am also going to increase my exercise simply because I need to. I also take wellbutrin 150mg xl (time release, lisinopril for high blood pressure (which I would probably not have to take except for the wellbutrin, prevacid (hiatal hernia, and prevastain. I am questioning the effect ofthe statin in that I think it is possible that what I think is joint pain might be misinterpetted muscle pain. When I took the drug Crestor I experianced extreme muscle symptoms and had to immeadiatly stop taking it. SO I do not think it is a clear picture.

Any insights for me to think about are appreaciated. I will report back in a couple of days on how I react to the cessation of the resveratrol.

[alexd]

I have been a long time user of resveratrol in many different forms ( at one point 2gms a day). I started out with 50% about 2 years ago then moved to 98% and then moved to 98% microtized. Many of you long term members may remember my previous posts. I began to have joint problems not long after taking resveratrol, about 3 months. It started in the hips. A mild problem but noticable. Then moved to my shoulders, fingers, feet, calves and forearms. over many months. During this time I made many posts., which one can research. I tried many combinations during this period such as dropping all other supplements and only using 98% resveratrol. I made sure that that I waited for atleast 1 month on any conbination before I reported the results. Despite all my results, I still had joint/tendion pain, mostly joint pain. Many people on this board at the time claimed that the joint pain was a myth. Now many of those same people have experienced what I did. After ordering over $300 worth of 98% microtized I decided that it was best to drop resveratrol. My joint problems went away in about a month but I still had flar-ups for at least 2 or 3 months. After this period I did try resveratrol a couple of times and within a couple of days of taking it, at only a 300mg dose, I would start to have joint pain. There seems to be some type of lingering effect.

During my time taking resveartrol and the joint pain I was taking Coq 10 (50mg) and a multivitamin with nician (110mg), which many have talked about in this thread. I also took resveratrol for periods where I was not taking anything else. Neither made any difference in the joint pain.

All I can tell you guys is that the joint pain problems is very very real for some people. Something is going on and I hope that we find out what it is.

Recently I have started taking the 300mg microtized once a week without problems. I'm going to take it slow. I've got to do something with all that resveratrol in the freezer.

I encourage you to review my historical posts.

Cut back for a day and things got better. Also rainy days are a source of discomfort and better weather is a factor. ah the mysteries of science!


FWIW, when I started taking resveratrol, I noticed a small amount of joint pain in the knees and hip after about 10 days. For other reasons, I started taking lyprinol soon after that time, and noticed that the pain had disappeared after a few days.

perhaps someone can add their insight to my situation. I have been taking resveratrol in the form of an extract of japenese knotweed root for about two years. Assuming about 50% trans resveratrol I take 2-3 gms a day. No problamatic laxitive effects. I never had any problem and have experianced many postitive effects.

I the last week or so I have experianced some joint pain. The only things that seem to be different is that about 3 months ago I started taking Provigil (50mg day) and Piracetam currently about 1.2 gms a day, and 1/4 tps of choline chloride a day. I am wondering if those substances might be creating a product. With Piracetam I started at 400mg aday. without any noticable probem. The nootropic effects have been postive. I am going to stop taking the resveratrol for a few day to see if there is a change. I am also going to increase my exercise simply because I need to. I also take wellbutrin 150mg xl (time release, lisinopril for high blood pressure (which I would probably not have to take except for the wellbutrin, prevacid (hiatal hernia, and prevastain. I am questioning the effect ofthe statin in that I think it is possible that what I think is joint pain might be misinterpetted muscle pain. When I took the drug Crestor I experianced extreme muscle symptoms and had to immeadiatly stop taking it. SO I do not think it is a clear picture.

Any insights for me to think about are appreaciated. I will report back in a couple of days on how I react to the cessation of the resveratrol.

[Ghostrider]

I notice the joint pain too, but I have been taking resveratrol for a while and did not notice it previous. I take one 200 mg capsule of Now "Mega Potent" trans-resveratrol before bed. I started drinking more milk as well to increase my calcuium / Vitamin D so maybe that plays an effect.

[alexd]

[quote name='Ghostrider' date='3-May 2009, 02:12 AM' post='319835']
I notice the joint pain too, but I have been taking resveratrol for a while and did not notice it previous. I take one 200

[2tender]

After using Res. for some months, I have concluded that it is a side effect that dissipates over time and or may be unrelated to ingestion, at least in my experience.

[tunt01]

FWIW, when I started taking resveratrol, I noticed a small amount of joint pain in the knees and hip after about 10 days. For other reasons, I started taking lyprinol soon after that time, and noticed that the pain had disappeared after a few days.

anyone else try lyprinol and see the same results?

i'm getting some minor tendonitis in the hands after 2 weeks of resveratrol. time to start upping my CoQ10 and niacin intake, it seems.

[nowayout]

I am surprised at how several people here have reported joint pain from resveratrol yet the same affected people continue to use resveratrol in spite of this side effect. If anything has been learned in this and other threads, it is that the mechanism underlying this side effect is unknown. It may well be a sign of toxicity (think Cipro or statins).

I am not trying to criticize personal health choices. I am just trying to understand the thinking that leads someone to take this kind of risk.

This question is not directed at those who have no side effects.

Edited by andre, 18 May 2009 - 04:17 PM.

[Anthony_Loera]

My theory about this goes like this:

Most of the people here who are taking significant amounts of resveratrol are above the age of 30. Many of these people also exercise. Not coincidentally, this is the age when many people first start noticing age-related joint pain.

Most of the people who read this particular board have heard these accounts of resveratrol use causing joint pain. Some of them then attribute their joint pain to their use of resveratrol.

I'm unaware of any serious discussion regarding resveratrol causing joint pain that didn't start on these forums.

It follows that some of these accounts probably are the result of a "negative placebo effect" or mistaken attribution of causation.

I agree, as I have yet to experience any issues.

A

[2tender]

As a person that used one of the first available Resveratrol supplements in the USA, I can say that there is a correlation, but that correlation is particular to purity of product and emodin content. Sorry no scientific data to correspond with, and indeed some people have no issues whatsoever. JMO

[wydell]

I stopped taking it.

I am surprised at how several people here have reported joint pain from resveratrol yet the same affected people continue to use resveratrol in spite of this side effect. If anything has been learned in this and other threads, it is that the mechanism underlying this side effect is unknown. It may well be a sign of toxicity (think Cipro or statins).

I am not trying to criticize personal health choices. I am just trying to understand the thinking that leads someone to take this kind of risk.

This question is not directed at those who have no side effects.

[nowayout]

Another possible mechanism:

Resveratrol is known to inhibit platelet aggregation under certain circumstances: http://www2.hcmuaf.e...Resveratrol.pdf. In fact, this mechanism of action is thought to underlie some of resveratrol's cardiovascular benefits in patients with chronic vascular inflammation.

As far as I can tell, platelet aggregation appears to play a role in the healing of injured tendons. Among other things, they release growth factors that promote collagen formation. In fact, platelet rich plasma (PRP) injection therapy is nowadays being used with success to promote healing of chronic tendon injuries. http://www.orthoheal...2_OnlinePDF.pdf

It seems at least possible that by inhibiting normal platelet function, resveratrol could limit tendon and possibly also muscle healing. If true, people who exercise regularly, and especially those who do resistance exercise, might be particularly vulnerable, since in those individuals microtrauma to soft tissues is an almost daily occurrence (not to mention periodic macrotrauma). Normally nothing would come of such microtrauma, but if the healing response is inhibited sufficiently, it makes sense that things will start to snowball.

Edited by andre, 20 May 2009 - 02:59 PM.

[maxwatt]

Another possible mechanism:

Resveratrol is known to inhibit platelet aggregation under certain circumstances: http://www2.hcmuaf.e...Resveratrol.pdf. In fact, this mechanism of action is thought to underlie some of resveratrol's cardiovascular benefits in patients with chronic vascular inflammation.

As far as I can tell, platelet aggregation appears to play a role in the healing of injured tendons. Among other things, they release growth factors that promote collagen formation. In fact, platelet rich plasma (PRP) injection therapy is nowadays being used with success to promote healing of chronic tendon injuries. http://www.orthoheal...2_OnlinePDF.pdf

It seems at least possible that by inhibiting normal platelet function, resveratrol could limit tendon and possibly also muscle healing. If true, people who exercise regularly, and especially those who do resistance exercise, might be particularly vulnerable, since in those individuals microtrauma to soft tissues is an almost daily occurrence (not to mention periodic macrotrauma). Normally nothing would come of such microtrauma, but if the healing response is inhibited sufficiently, it makes sense that things will start to snowball.

If you take resveratrol in the morning, by night serum levels should be zero and healing should be possible. I wonder if the joint pain sufferers were taking resveratrol at night.

[nowayout]

It seems at least possible that by inhibiting normal platelet function, resveratrol could limit tendon and possibly also muscle healing. If true, people who exercise regularly, and especially those who do resistance exercise, might be particularly vulnerable, since in those individuals microtrauma to soft tissues is an almost daily occurrence (not to mention periodic macrotrauma). Normally nothing would come of such microtrauma, but if the healing response is inhibited sufficiently, it makes sense that things will start to snowball.

If you take resveratrol in the morning, by night serum levels should be zero and healing should be possible. I wonder if the joint pain sufferers were taking resveratrol at night.

That is assuming the anti-platelet-aggregation effect is as transient as the resveratrol plasma levels, which may well be true, but in that case the supposed cardiovascular benefits would presumably also be limited (lower vascular inflammation only in the morning, but lots at night).

[maxwatt]

It seems at least possible that by inhibiting normal platelet function, resveratrol could limit tendon and possibly also muscle healing. If true, people who exercise regularly, and especially those who do resistance exercise, might be particularly vulnerable, since in those individuals microtrauma to soft tissues is an almost daily occurrence (not to mention periodic macrotrauma). Normally nothing would come of such microtrauma, but if the healing response is inhibited sufficiently, it makes sense that things will start to snowball.

If you take resveratrol in the morning, by night serum levels should be zero and healing should be possible. I wonder if the joint pain sufferers were taking resveratrol at night.

That is assuming the anti-platelet-aggregation effect is as transient as the resveratrol plasma levels, which may well be true, but in that case the supposed cardiovascular benefits would presumably also be limited (lower vascular inflammation only in the morning, but lots at night).

Not necessarily. platelet aggregation is likely to be a transient effect IMO, while the cascade of activated gene expression (Sirt1, P53, nf-Kappa-B et al.), lasts much longer than the 30 or 40 minutes resveratrol remains in the bloodstream .

[nowayout]

It seems at least possible that by inhibiting normal platelet function, resveratrol could limit tendon and possibly also muscle healing. If true, people who exercise regularly, and especially those who do resistance exercise, might be particularly vulnerable, since in those individuals microtrauma to soft tissues is an almost daily occurrence (not to mention periodic macrotrauma). Normally nothing would come of such microtrauma, but if the healing response is inhibited sufficiently, it makes sense that things will start to snowball.

If you take resveratrol in the morning, by night serum levels should be zero and healing should be possible. I wonder if the joint pain sufferers were taking resveratrol at night.

That is assuming the anti-platelet-aggregation effect is as transient as the resveratrol plasma levels, which may well be true, but in that case the supposed cardiovascular benefits would presumably also be limited (lower vascular inflammation only in the morning, but lots at night).

Not necessarily. platelet aggregation is likely to be a transient effect IMO, while the cascade of activated gene expression (Sirt1, P53, nf-Kappa-B et al.), lasts much longer than the 30 or 40 minutes resveratrol remains in the bloodstream .

I should probably have specified that I meant the contribution to cardiovascular benefits hypothesized to be a result of lowered inflammation due to platelet aggregation inhibition. But yes, I do not dispute that there may be other mechanisms that lower inflammation or benefit the cardiovascular system that would be less transient.