169 replies to this topic

[cani!]

Yes, the half life is 120 days. That's why when you dose EPO, you inject every other day at first during what is called the "corrective phase" to produce more RBC. Then after a certain time (when the desired level of RBC is attained), you only have to take a shot every two weeks or every month to keep level of RBC stable.

 

I'm guessing a similar protocol might work for ITTP since in the rat studies, the effect lasted as long as the RBC's half life BUT, from my experience, I can't say I have encounterd a cumulative or lasting effects: when I stopped and went "off cycle", my increased endurance fell down to pre ittp level. Then again, it is hard to tell because I train like a madman and was totally off, drinking and partying during the holidays... 

[atomical]

Do you have any interest in combining EPO and ITPP?

[cani!]

Do you have any interest in combining EPO and ITPP?

 

I don't know. The possibilities are mind boggling: EPO makes you produce more RBC and ITTP increases the oxygen carrying capabilities of those RBC, I mean, you would be a real superathlete (people just have no idea the difference EPO or testosterone can make in the performances of an athlete).

 

I don't want to jeopardize my health in anyway shape or form but if it could extend my competitve carreer by one year not for the money or anything else but just for the thrill of competition, I might...

 

I've never used EPO but I've seen first hand what it does: we're talking massive, massive change. It is weird because when you look at the scientific papers, they mentionned 4% improvement or things like that but in the field, for an athlete bordering on overtraining, the extra volume of training you can do compounds itself to massive, massive and I mean massive change (it is worth repeating). Just to give you an example, as you probably know, going from a 15 minutes 5k to a 13 minutes 5k is a big deal. Most people train for years to do that kind of jump. A friend of mine, the striker in our team had trouble running at a good pace. He went on EPO during the off season (given by our team's doctor mind you) and he did it in less then a month. And we're talking about a guy that had trained and played soccer all his life so he was in pretty good shape to begin with...

 

We're not tested in the league where I play (I would say semi-pro) so yeah, I'm thinking about it to come up at the training camp in shape, enough to have another go for the next season.... But ethically, I don't know. Somehow, I pride myself in never having cheated but since it is not against the rules... I don't know....

 

Sorry for ranting...

 

Edit: typos

Edited by cani!, 16 January 2015 - 01:17 AM.

[Leonidas10]

Totally aggre with cani. My only concern is ITTP or and epo during training or in competition, or both.

[cani!]

Totally aggre with cani. My only concern is ITTP or and epo during training or in competition, or both.

 

I don't know. You would have to adjust your protocol to your competitive season I guess. For example, using EPO/ITTP or both, you would probably go for your "corrective phase" while you are in early pre-season and be on maintenance phase while you are in-season. Come off during the post season break. Repeat... I would be rather careful with my monitoring during the in season because viscous blood takes a toll on the heart. So, yeah, starting the corrective phase early pre-season would make sense to give your body a chance to adapt and to titter the dosage you would be using. 

 

If your competitive season is very short or you only have one big competition, you might want to just use it just before the competition to improve performance for only that event (like drinking beet juice). I think some athletes use it a while before their competition to have rather high RBC count (after 24 hours, the only way to detect EPO is having an unusual number of RBC. But if you can prove with samples that you were alreay high, they can't do much. Then again, we are not tested in our league). 

 

Now, to me it doesn't make sense to use something to have a better performance once. I think you have more results when you use PED's to train harder and avoid overtraining because, IMO, the results will last after you are off. It is just a way to push your body beyond what it could normally do and then, it adapts to that higher threshold. Some people are very shy discussing PED's yet they drink 4 liters of BeetJuice before a run to gain an edge. I know guys that almost died on "Yohimbe" yet they act all offended when someone is using Modafinil to be more productive. They frown upon EPO but sleep in hyperbaric chamber every night.  It is pure hypocrisy and it is too late. Profesionnal sports is "broken". We are so used to seeing athletes performing inhuman task that seeing only what could be achieve naturally would be boring.

 

Loading in the off season and maintening in season is pretty much what Victor Conte was doing with his athletes (sprinters) that had a rather short season  You might not like the man but he did get spectacular results. He took the guestwork out of the equation but, again this is just my small spectrum of personal experience, a lot of athletes use everything under the sun to make them better. Our team's doctor does pretty much the same thing as Conte did. 

 

EPO scares the crap out of me personaly. The really long half life makes it harder to control, you can't really "wash out" and you have to monitor your blood level very carefully. If ITTP proves to be a suitable alternative (not quite sure yet, maybe SubQ would be different) then I would use a similar protocol and probably combine them both but using a lot less EPO to avoid side effects...

 

Edit: Victor Conte procotol:

 

http://news.bbc.co.u...ics/7403158.stm

Edited by cani!, 16 January 2015 - 03:00 PM.

[Leonidas10]

Cani I agree with your post. My only concern for ITPP is that we do not know the purity of the product from tht.co so there is no way I would use it subq,and the benefits,dosage of itpp are not yet known for sure.
Since itpp from tht.co is not available now it would be interesting to find a new source. If anyone has any information pls post.
Another product that is really working is cobalt chloride but have not yet found a way to purchase.

[atomical]

It's back in stock at THT.

[atomical]

Cani I agree with your post. My only concern for ITPP is that we do not know the purity of the product from tht.co so there is no way I would use it subq,and the benefits,dosage of itpp are not yet known for sure.
Since itpp from tht.co is not available now it would be interesting to find a new source. If anyone has any information pls post.
Another product that is really working is cobalt chloride but have not yet found a way to purchase.

 

http://www.ergo-log....ltchloride.html

 

"Five years ago Italian researchers speculated that a compound found in every chemistry set might be an alternative to EPO."

 

It can't be that difficult to source if that's the case.  In the next few years there are going to be home testing kits for biomarkers hitting the market.  One of them is cue.  Until something enters the market to test hematocrit, I really can't take the risk.

[cani!]

 

Cani I agree with your post. My only concern for ITPP is that we do not know the purity of the product from tht.co so there is no way I would use it subq,and the benefits,dosage of itpp are not yet known for sure.
Since itpp from tht.co is not available now it would be interesting to find a new source. If anyone has any information pls post.
Another product that is really working is cobalt chloride but have not yet found a way to purchase.

 

http://www.ergo-log....ltchloride.html

 

"Five years ago Italian researchers speculated that a compound found in every chemistry set might be an alternative to EPO."

 

It can't be that difficult to source if that's the case.  In the next few years there are going to be home testing kits for biomarkers hitting the market.  One of them is cue.  Until something enters the market to test hematocrit, I really can't take the risk.

 

 

Thanks for that post mate and I will shy away from CobalChloride too....

 

Good to know THT has ITTP back in stock. I will stock up to further my experiment. I'm back on ITTP and I just compared notes with last year: it seems that I am in much better shape with a very similar training. We did our VO2 max test yesterday (with a breathing apparaturus) and I was at 72 while last year I was at 65. It might not sound like much but to me that is pretty amazing, especially since I've been at 65 for as long as I can remember.

 

I don't "feel" any different though, even upping the dosage at 1 gram a day for 10 consecutive days. I had the impression it made it hard to breath but it turned out I had a small bronchial infection.... I don't feel like I have more energy but I recover much faster from workouts. It is very weird...

 

So in any case, it seems to be working rather well. We have another VO2 max test in a month. I will stop using ITTP to see if the effect on VO2 max remained... 

 

Question for you guys: do you take any anti-oxydant to buffer up the free radicals? Is there any reason to take more? 

 

Atomical: have you noticed a cumulative effect after several days of dosing????

 

Thanks for sharing btw!

 

Cheers :-)

Edited by cani!, 23 January 2015 - 02:32 PM.

[atomical]

I haven't felt huge differences or a cumulative effect of ITPP.  Sometimes recovery is faster, such as when I get stuck at a traffic light.  I started dosing coming off a sickness and I thought it definitely helped at least initially.

 

I looked at some other animal studies and I'm thinking that for a 30% increase in performance you might have to go much higher in dose, possibly something in 20g range.  Could we double the availability of itpp by packaging it up in a suppository? The ongoing anti-cancer studies use intravenous dosing.  I don't have a problem injecting, but it's really inconvenient for me.

 

I've read a lot of articles over at ergo-log.com that suggest you can increase testosterone by using antioxidants.  I've been using Vitamin C, but I'm tempted to try C60oo for it's reported antioxidant properties.

 

I'm also testing out Ostarine for recovery.  I haven't got the dosing right yet.  There are other SARMS such as LGD-4033 that might be more effective, but I've read reports that it's also more suppressive.  

 

Not to derail this topic too much, but I'm going to start a thread soon on GW-50156.  I've read a lot of comments on the internet that disparage the conclusions of the toxicity study.  The toxicity study says that GW-50156 causes cancer at all doses.  Well, from my calculations the lowest dose that they used is only marginally higher than what body builders and endurance runners are using.  So I need someone to check my math, but I think the motivation here is profit and selling more gear.

 

 

[cani!]

I haven't felt huge differences or a cumulative effect of ITPP.  Sometimes recovery is faster, such as when I get stuck at a traffic light.  I started dosing coming off a sickness and I thought it definitely helped at least initially.

 

I looked at some other animal studies and I'm thinking that for a 30% increase in performance you might have to go much higher in dose, possibly something in 20g range.  Could we double the availability of itpp by packaging it up in a suppository? The ongoing anti-cancer studies use intravenous dosing.  I don't have a problem injecting, but it's really inconvenient for me.

 

I've read a lot of articles over at ergo-log.com that suggest you can increase testosterone by using antioxidants.  I've been using Vitamin C, but I'm tempted to try C60oo for it's reported antioxidant properties.

 

I'm also testing out Ostarine for recovery.  I haven't got the dosing right yet.  There are other SARMS such as LGD-4033 that might be more effective, but I've read reports that it's also more suppressive.  

 

Not to derail this topic too much, but I'm going to start a thread soon on GW-50156.  I've read a lot of comments on the internet that disparage the conclusions of the toxicity study.  The toxicity study says that GW-50156 causes cancer at all doses.  Well, from my calculations the lowest dose that they used is only marginally higher than what body builders and endurance runners are using.  So I need someone to check my math, but I think the motivation here is profit and selling more gear.

 

Thanks... 

 

Yeah, the doses used to improve exercise capacity might be huge but we are talking a 30% increase, which is massive... A combination of HGH and Test gave a 8% increase in a study so 30% is beyond big...

 

http://www.livescien...p-athletes.html

 

I decided to stay away from SARMS. I've seen contradictory results (liver value elevation at 3mg a day, Ostarine failing at stage III etc...). If I ever go that road, low levels of Sustanon will be my weapon of choice. They are taboo but AS have a good safety track record all things considered....

 

Thanks for the answer on anti-oxydant. 

 

It would be nice to attract science guys like Niner to that thread to see if there is cause for concern when increasing oxydation by using stuff like ITTP... Maybe buffering some of those free radicals might prove helpfull to avoid cellular damage...

[atomical]

A new order of ITPP arrived.  I'm going to be dosing at 500mg/day for the next month.  I contacted a redditor who offered free purity testing, but they said that there are not primary literature sources for comparison.  I should be getting a blood panel soon.  

[NasRenegade]

I haven't felt huge differences or a cumulative effect of ITPP.  Sometimes recovery is faster, such as when I get stuck at a traffic light.  I started dosing coming off a sickness and I thought it definitely helped at least initially.

 

I looked at some other animal studies and I'm thinking that for a 30% increase in performance you might have to go much higher in dose, possibly something in 20g range.  Could we double the availability of itpp by packaging it up in a suppository? The ongoing anti-cancer studies use intravenous dosing.  I don't have a problem injecting, but it's really inconvenient for me.

 

I've read a lot of articles over at ergo-log.com that suggest you can increase testosterone by using antioxidants.  I've been using Vitamin C, but I'm tempted to try C60oo for it's reported antioxidant properties.

 

I'm also testing out Ostarine for recovery.  I haven't got the dosing right yet.  There are other SARMS such as LGD-4033 that might be more effective, but I've read reports that it's also more suppressive.  

 

Not to derail this topic too much, but I'm going to start a thread soon on GW-50156.  I've read a lot of comments on the internet that disparage the conclusions of the toxicity study.  The toxicity study says that GW-50156 causes cancer at all doses.  Well, from my calculations the lowest dose that they used is only marginally higher than what body builders and endurance runners are using.  So I need someone to check my math, but I think the motivation here is profit and selling more gear.

 

One way you could increase absorption of ITPP is by complexing it with a Cyclodextrin ( HPBCD in this case ). The exact ratio you would use, or a legit source however I have to find.
 

[Metagene]

Any advice for IM ITPP administration? I'm willing to try a 3.2g dose.

[cani!]

A guy at the gym did it with a 28 gauge on his ventro glutes but he had major PIP 15 minutes after the injection at 800 mg a day. He went all the way up to 1,2 grams. His solution was diluted to 300 mg/ml and he is used to getting 2-3 cc injections IM everyday (he is a competitve bodybuilder).

 

 

[Virtual Reality]

I tried IM, had muscle pain at the injection site for a couple days. I would try subQ if I were you.

[Metagene]

Thanks for the replies. What is PIP? 

 

 

A guy at the gym did it with a 28 gauge on his ventro glutes but he had major PIP 15 minutes after the injection at 800 mg a day. He went all the way up to 1,2 grams. His solution was diluted to 300 mg/ml and he is used to getting 2-3 cc injections IM everyday (he is a competitve bodybuilder).

 

 

I tried IM, had muscle pain at the injection site for a couple days. I would try subQ if I were you.

 

That is the second option. For the past 3 weeks I've taken 600mcg of N-acetyl semax subcutaneously with no issues.

[cani!]

Post Injection Pain...

 

Sorry about the "bro-cabulary"...

[Metagene]

Post Injection Pain...

 

Sorry about the "bro-cabulary"...

 

Okay thanks. 

[Virtual Reality]

May I ask, how are you getting rid of the impurities in the compound before you inject it?

[Metagene]

May I ask, how are you getting rid of the impurities in the compound before you inject it?

I didn't think about impurities but listen to this:

The same site sells a neon-blue product, Blast Off Extreme Injection, that is said on the label to contain “myo-inositol trisprophosphate,” a similar spelling for the chemical name of the ITPP molecule. The description says the substance “may increase the force of heart-muscle contraction.” However, chemists who have tested the substance say that it does not contain the full ITPP molecule, according to Dr. Rick Sams, director of the HFL Sports Science lab in Lexington, but rather amino-acid snippets of it. It’s got the parts, but is far less than the whole, and completely ineffective.

The site sells a bottle containing six and half times the recommended dose for $40, which should be a sure-fire signal to any veterinarian or trainer that the substance is fraudulent, considering the difficulty in manufacturing the real ITPP molecule and its rarity.

Emails sent to a contact address at horseprerace.com have gone unanswered for a month.

http://www.drf.com/n...g-diluted-drugs

Whelp I should have done more research before ordering.

Edited by Metagene, 16 March 2015 - 10:45 PM.

[atomical]

You can try ebay.  Nyles7 was selling ITPP on there last I checked.

[Virtual Reality]

Does anyone know how to properly get rid of the impurities?

 

I have bought a .22 micron filter, will the ITPP pass through it, and get rid of the impurities?

 

Or perhaps a other way; let the compound sit in the bacteriostatic water for 24 hours, and there fore the benzyl alcohol will get rid of its impurities?

 

How do I proceed?

[atomical]

Why not take it orally?

[cani!]

 

May I ask, how are you getting rid of the impurities in the compound before you inject it?

I didn't think about impurities but listen to this:

The same site sells a neon-blue product, Blast Off Extreme Injection, that is said on the label to contain “myo-inositol trisprophosphate,” a similar spelling for the chemical name of the ITPP molecule. The description says the substance “may increase the force of heart-muscle contraction.” However, chemists who have tested the substance say that it does not contain the full ITPP molecule, according to Dr. Rick Sams, director of the HFL Sports Science lab in Lexington, but rather amino-acid snippets of it. It’s got the parts, but is far less than the whole, and completely ineffective.

The site sells a bottle containing six and half times the recommended dose for $40, which should be a sure-fire signal to any veterinarian or trainer that the substance is fraudulent, considering the difficulty in manufacturing the real ITPP molecule and its rarity.

Emails sent to a contact address at horseprerace.com have gone unanswered for a month.

http://www.drf.com/n...g-diluted-drugs

Whelp I should have done more research before ordering.

 

 

 

Innovagen labs has it in sealed vials for injection. That's what my friend was using. It is expensive.

 

I take mine orally, it is less efficient but still works. 

 

If I was making a solution, I would use bac water than benzyl alcool (no oil as it is a salt).  But I would never do that. 

[Virtual Reality]

Why would you never do it? Im a bit hesistant aswel, to inject it. I cant find anything about innovagen, can you link me there?

[cani!]

Risk/Reward. I'd rather use more to have the same results then take the additional risks of infection by injecting. Injecting is only worthwhile when the oral method is more dangereous (i.e. steroids for example).

 

I can't link a source as they sell many things that are not exactly legal. Your best bet is to get in touch with a rep. Besides, I'm not sure they still carry it.

 

You can read about the user's report here:

 

http://canadianjuice...ophosphate.html

[Virtual Reality]

I do like this compound orally, just wondered which benefit can be gained when injected.(as seen in the studies in mice, when injected, doubled the efficiency) 

 

Btw; are you still taking it orally, and how many mg's?

 

Interesting link btw, they seem to be doing well on ITPP.

[cani!]

I do like this compound orally, just wondered which benefit can be gained when injected.(as seen in the studies in mice, when injected, doubled the efficiency) 

 

Btw; are you still taking it orally, and how many mg's?

 

Interesting link btw, they seem to be doing well on ITPP.

 

I don't know of any benefits you might have going for the injections versus oral... From personal experience, there seems to be a point of diminishing return when adding more ITTP just brings anxiety and difficulties breathing. The only way to know for sure would be to try it but there is no way I'm injecting something that came from a UGL, maybe brewed in the bathtub of someone while they watched Jerry Springer on tv. If Ceretropic or some grade A vendor start carrying it, I might think about it.

 

Yes, I started taking ITTP again as I moved to another mesocycle on my training plan for the summer. I use small amounts, about 100 mg a day orally. The effects are not drastic but cumulative over time and I recover much faster from my workouts.

 

I need to find another source but THT is offline, Innovagen is really expensive as is Nyles7. The latter seems to be the best option.

 

The guy on the forum Zuppas, trains at the same gym as me. He is still on ITTP and so far, it seems to work for him at 1200 mgs injected IM pre workout. 

[atomical]

I bought an additional 30g before THT closed down.  I'm looking forward to doing long runs this summer.