169 replies to this topic

[Virtual Reality]

 

I do like this compound orally, just wondered which benefit can be gained when injected.(as seen in the studies in mice, when injected, doubled the efficiency) 

 

Btw; are you still taking it orally, and how many mg's?

 

Interesting link btw, they seem to be doing well on ITPP.

 

I don't know of any benefits you might have going for the injections versus oral... From personal experience, there seems to be a point of diminishing return when adding more ITTP just brings anxiety and difficulties breathing. The only way to know for sure would be to try it but there is no way I'm injecting something that came from a UGL, maybe brewed in the bathtub of someone while they watched Jerry Springer on tv. If Ceretropic or some grade A vendor start carrying it, I might think about it.

 

Yes, I started taking ITTP again as I moved to another mesocycle on my training plan for the summer. I use small amounts, about 100 mg a day orally. The effects are not drastic but cumulative over time and I recover much faster from my workouts.

 

I need to find another source but THT is offline, Innovagen is really expensive as is Nyles7. The latter seems to be the best option.

 

The guy on the forum Zuppas, trains at the same gym as me. He is still on ITTP and so far, it seems to work for him at 1200 mgs injected IM pre workout. 

 

Yeah if companies like you mentioned , ceretropic etc start carrying. I will consider also an other route of administration. 

 

 I once took a bigger dose then 750 mg(orally), and I did experience difficulty breathing. Not sure about my anxiety levels, they are always high.

 

If this is the case , would it be likely that these side effects persist for 2 weeks? (Since the half life is around the weeks 2 mark) I cant remember how many days exactly these side effects persisted when I took that 750 mg dose.

 

yesterday i took a 500 mg again, since a few weeks.

Edited by alex921, 18 March 2015 - 01:45 PM.

[cani!]

Yeah if companies like you mentioned , ceretropic etc start carrying. I will consider also an other route of administration. 

 

 

 I once took a bigger dose then 750 mg(orally), and I did experience difficulty breathing. Not sure about my anxiety levels, they are always high.

 

If this is the case , would it be likely that these side effects persist for 2 weeks? (Since the half life is around the weeks 2 mark) I cant remember how many days exactly these side effects persisted when I took that 750 mg dose.

 

yesterday i took a 500 mg again, since a few weeks.

 

 

 

_______________

 

I don't know what the half life of the product is. If it really binds to the red blood cells, the half life should be 120 days. But, it seems to be much shorter. I have several hypothesis as to why that happens but they're just hunches.

 

It took about 3 weeks before my breathing started to be normal again but I stupidly still would take about 100 mg a day even while feeling the symptoms. I stopped for the Christmas break and was fine and or too drunk to notice. The weirdest thing is I was a beast when exercising but felt a weird chest pressure that made it hard to breath. I had to yawn all the time to feel "full". Weirdest thing ever.

[atomical]

I started a new round of ITPP. I'm using product bought from THT before they closed down. Does anyone have the charts that THT put up? They arent on archive.org. I had a quote recently for 100g/$500. If I go that route I will have to test it against a reference sample or whatever I can dig up in the literature.

[lourdaud]

I started a new round of ITPP. I'm using product bought from THT before they closed down. Does anyone have the charts that THT put up? They arent on archive.org. I had a quote recently for 100g/$500. If I go that route I will have to test it against a reference sample or whatever I can dig up in the literature.

 

I'm curious if you've experienced any cognitive effects from this compound. Any improvements in mental clarity or stamina?

[baslangicnoktasi]

 

I started a new round of ITPP. I'm using product bought from THT before they closed down. Does anyone have the charts that THT put up? They arent on archive.org. I had a quote recently for 100g/$500. If I go that route I will have to test it against a reference sample or whatever I can dig up in the literature.

 

I'm curious if you've experienced any cognitive effects from this compound. Any improvements in mental clarity or stamina?

 

 

Hi ,

I'm new here and want to share my experience with myoinositol. (not ITPP. expect not the same but similar efects) 

 

I personally used myoinositol for years. Both for antiaxiety and antidepresant effects and also for PCO (polycycticover syndrome). Gynecologysts prescribe this to increase fertility of PCO patients. I sense the effect in 60-90mins. However nootropic effects depent to dose and easily develop tolerance. Some psychiatrists prescribe up to 16gr per day. I believe 250mg just before meals is a good starting dose.

I twice prescribe this to self admitted alcoholics. Their social status prevents them to join AA. With my guidance they quit drinking and still sober for 2 years. (25- 27 months). This requires very close follow ups but works:)) 

BN

Edited by baslangicnoktasi, 06 May 2015 - 11:16 AM.

[atomical]

 

I started a new round of ITPP. I'm using product bought from THT before they closed down. Does anyone have the charts that THT put up? They arent on archive.org. I had a quote recently for 100g/$500. If I go that route I will have to test it against a reference sample or whatever I can dig up in the literature.

 

I'm curious if you've experienced any cognitive effects from this compound. Any improvements in mental clarity or stamina?

 

 

I feel more awake.  I really haven't noticed increased mental clarity.

[thedarkbobo]

Yeah I've been using tht one too - it sucked the water from air and become a stone

 

I've dissolved it in water and put in vials.

 

I wonder if it's still working...I'd say it does. I am still alive after taking it 3 times after doing that so I guess no deadly hazard here. Not sure if it changed properties though(is it even working?).

 

I found it working good when it was fresh, and it's really striking that I don't see more research on this topic on pubmed, even though it seems to be helping anti-cancer and with heart stroke damage.

 

It strongly reduces vascular leakage, tumor growth, drug resistance, and metastasis.

And of course zero research (?) as a potential supplement. Why? If I had damaged heart it could help me live longer....it's just weird. All that due to doping industry? Just lol....

If there was more research on animals for long term use I would buy lets say 100g of powder and divide to vials + distiled water -> here we go.

 

[Nick Kyz]

Yeah I enjoy ITPP. It's not as good as EPO but it also has far fewer complications. I also took it orally so I assume it would be much more effective via subQ.

 

I'm getting mine from ebay: http://www.ebay.com/...W5uSB6_wWS_w63w

Edited by Nick Kyz, 31 March 2016 - 01:57 AM.

[cantillon1989]

Have we confirmed that nyles7 ITPP is good to go? A reliable source?

 

 

[Nick Kyz]

You can get ITPP here: http://irc.bio/produ...phosphate-itpp/

[Junk Master]

I'll vouch for Nyles7 as good to go!

 

Interesting compound.

 

Definitely not in the same league as EPO.

 

However, I still want to try it compounded with beta cyclodextrins and in large doses while training at altitude.

 

In the meantime, I will be using some largish doses on an upcoming hiking trip at altitude and let you know how that goes.

 

Also, I really think this compound is much more effective than even huge doses of myoinositol!  Don't think myoinositol was ever used to dope race horses or grey hounds. It's fine for dealing with low grade anxiety, but it sure isn't going to shave minutes off a 10 k.

[mikey]

Yep that's the thread! Looking closer at it I see he mentions its in the 10's of grams NOT 100's so that is good.

There's a conversion factor for lab animals that needs to be factored in that compensates for their much higher metabolism.


For reference, here is a good explanation:

If only animal experimental data is available for a given compound, it is reasonable to ask what the comparable human dose might be for the same compound. This problem is often faced by researchers when considering a new chemical substance for human trials for the first time. The following is a discussion of how this issue is typically addressed. (1)
The process starts with estimating Maximum Recommended Starting Dose (MRSD) for first-in-human clinical trials. It is based on the No Observable Adverse Effect Level (NOAEL) derived from animal toxicological studies. Once the NOAEL is known, the Human Equivalent Dose (HED) is calculated using the following formula: (2)
Human Equivalent Dose (HED in mg/kg) = Animal Dose (mg/kg) × Animal Km ÷ Human Km, where Km is a correction factor reflecting the relationship between body weight and body surface area. For a typical adult (body weight 60 lb, body surface area 1.6 m2), Km is 37. For the most often used laboratory animal species the average Km are as follows: Mouse 3 Rat 6 Guinea Pig 8 Rabbit 12 Dog 20 Human Adult 37
To calculate the MRSD, the HED derived from NOAEL is further divided by a safety factor (typically 10) to help determine a reasonable safety ceiling and help minimize the risk of toxicity in human clinical trials.
Determination of Human Equivalent of Pharmacologically Active Dose (PAD) is more complicated and depends upon many factors such as pharmacokinetics (i.e. absorption, concentration in the target tissue, metabolism, elimination, etc.) and differs markedly among pharmacological classes of drugs and clinical indications. Although far from ideal, the calculation method described above can be sometimes utilized. However, in the case of Pharmacologically Active Dose (PAD), dividing by safety factor is unnecessary. (2) Below is an example of conversion of a hypothetical PAD from mice to human:
Pharmacologically Active Dose (PAD) in mice 5 mg/kg
Human Equivalent Dose (HED) 5 × 3 ÷ 37 = 0.4 mg/kg
These calculations should only be considered preliminary and cannot serve as definitive dose determination. For more detailed information, please refer to the appropriate guidelines. (2)
References:

• Reigner B, Blesch K. Estimating the starting dose for entry into humans: principles and practice. European Journal of Clinical Pharmacology. 2002;57(12):835-845.
• Services USDoHaH, Administration FaD, (CDER) CfDEaR. Estimating the Maximum Safe Starting Dose in Initial Clinical Trials for Therapeutics in Adult Healthy Volunteers. Rockville, MD 2005.

So....


That being said, the study used a dose range of 500 mg/kg - 300 g/kg and noted the increase in effect was dose dependent.
Using the above formula, the minimum effective dosage estimate would be (500 * 3 / 37) = 40 mg/kg. I'm going to assume a 70kg male so that works out to about 3 grams. I'd be curious as to what the bio-availability of the compound is oral vs. SubL vs. SubQ. Who knows??


Sounds like though, you got some positive effects from a relatively low dosage. Have you considered trying a few progressively higher doses and noting the effects?


I'd be interested enough to try it, I'll look into it. Since recovering from my herniated disk I've been putting in a lot of miles in lately getting ready for fall race season so adding something in I can usually tell pretty quick if its giving a net positive effect since I tend to train pretty close to the edge of my performance capabilities. I admit though I need to fully research it before making that decision. I still have a bottle of GW501516 sitting on the shelf that I was hesitant to try due to safety concerns and I'm really glad I didn't, b/c its got some major safety issues / no wonder it was dropped at phase II clinical trials.

 

 

GW501516 is being used in the vet (horse) industry. Therefore, it must have passed FDA safety tests.

Yep that's the thread! Looking closer at it I see he mentions its in the 10's of grams NOT 100's so that is good.

There's a conversion factor for lab animals that needs to be factored in that compensates for their much higher metabolism.


For reference, here is a good explanation:

If only animal experimental data is available for a given compound, it is reasonable to ask what the comparable human dose might be for the same compound. This problem is often faced by researchers when considering a new chemical substance for human trials for the first time. The following is a discussion of how this issue is typically addressed. (1)
The process starts with estimating Maximum Recommended Starting Dose (MRSD) for first-in-human clinical trials. It is based on the No Observable Adverse Effect Level (NOAEL) derived from animal toxicological studies. Once the NOAEL is known, the Human Equivalent Dose (HED) is calculated using the following formula: (2)
Human Equivalent Dose (HED in mg/kg) = Animal Dose (mg/kg) × Animal Km ÷ Human Km, where Km is a correction factor reflecting the relationship between body weight and body surface area. For a typical adult (body weight 60 lb, body surface area 1.6 m2), Km is 37. For the most often used laboratory animal species the average Km are as follows: Mouse 3 Rat 6 Guinea Pig 8 Rabbit 12 Dog 20 Human Adult 37
To calculate the MRSD, the HED derived from NOAEL is further divided by a safety factor (typically 10) to help determine a reasonable safety ceiling and help minimize the risk of toxicity in human clinical trials.
Determination of Human Equivalent of Pharmacologically Active Dose (PAD) is more complicated and depends upon many factors such as pharmacokinetics (i.e. absorption, concentration in the target tissue, metabolism, elimination, etc.) and differs markedly among pharmacological classes of drugs and clinical indications. Although far from ideal, the calculation method described above can be sometimes utilized. However, in the case of Pharmacologically Active Dose (PAD), dividing by safety factor is unnecessary. (2) Below is an example of conversion of a hypothetical PAD from mice to human:
Pharmacologically Active Dose (PAD) in mice 5 mg/kg
Human Equivalent Dose (HED) 5 × 3 ÷ 37 = 0.4 mg/kg
These calculations should only be considered preliminary and cannot serve as definitive dose determination. For more detailed information, please refer to the appropriate guidelines. (2)
References:

• Reigner B, Blesch K. Estimating the starting dose for entry into humans: principles and practice. European Journal of Clinical Pharmacology. 2002;57(12):835-845.
• Services USDoHaH, Administration FaD, (CDER) CfDEaR. Estimating the Maximum Safe Starting Dose in Initial Clinical Trials for Therapeutics in Adult Healthy Volunteers. Rockville, MD 2005.

So....


That being said, the study used a dose range of 500 mg/kg - 300 g/kg and noted the increase in effect was dose dependent.
Using the above formula, the minimum effective dosage estimate would be (500 * 3 / 37) = 40 mg/kg. I'm going to assume a 70kg male so that works out to about 3 grams. I'd be curious as to what the bio-availability of the compound is oral vs. SubL vs. SubQ. Who knows??


Sounds like though, you got some positive effects from a relatively low dosage. Have you considered trying a few progressively higher doses and noting the effects?


I'd be interested enough to try it, I'll look into it. Since recovering from my herniated disk I've been putting in a lot of miles in lately getting ready for fall race season so adding something in I can usually tell pretty quick if its giving a net positive effect since I tend to train pretty close to the edge of my performance capabilities. I admit though I need to fully research it before making that decision. I still have a bottle of GW501516 sitting on the shelf that I was hesitant to try due to safety concerns and I'm really glad I didn't, b/c its got some major safety issues / no wonder it was dropped at phase II clinical trials.

 

 

GW501516 is used in the vet (horse) industry. Therefore, it has been approved for safety for horses, at least, by FDA.

[RJ23_1989]

So, 4 years on from that original post.. it turns out most of the GW501516 safety concerns were based on a flawed study. The cancer aspect was specifically tested in a follow-up study and the results were negative.

 

Source:  https://www.evolutio...ause-cancer.pdf

 

I'm in the process of finishing up a run of GW501516 right now and results (at least for me) have been amazing. Quite unexpectedly, I have completely reversed my chronic inflammation I have suffered with for the past 5 years or so, my insulin resistance is almost gone, and I have found that my max heart rate during cardio exercise has gone down around 20 bpm. Impressive.. 

[stephen_b]

So, 4 years on from that original post.. it turns out most of the GW501516 safety concerns were based on a flawed study. The cancer aspect was specifically tested in a follow-up study and the results were negative.

 

Source:  https://www.evolutio...ause-cancer.pdf

 

I'm in the process of finishing up a run of GW501516 right now and results (at least for me) have been amazing. Quite unexpectedly, I have completely reversed my chronic inflammation I have suffered with for the past 5 years or so, my insulin resistance is almost gone, and I have found that my max heart rate during cardio exercise has gone down around 20 bpm. Impressive.. 

 

What is your dosage?

 

I have had what seems to me to be chronic inflammation that has responded well to 4 mg astaxanthin daily.

[RJ23_1989]

 

So, 4 years on from that original post.. it turns out most of the GW501516 safety concerns were based on a flawed study. The cancer aspect was specifically tested in a follow-up study and the results were negative.

 

Source:  https://www.evolutio...ause-cancer.pdf

 

I'm in the process of finishing up a run of GW501516 right now and results (at least for me) have been amazing. Quite unexpectedly, I have completely reversed my chronic inflammation I have suffered with for the past 5 years or so, my insulin resistance is almost gone, and I have found that my max heart rate during cardio exercise has gone down around 20 bpm. Impressive.. 

 

What is your dosage?

 

I have had what seems to me to be chronic inflammation that has responded well to 4 mg astaxanthin daily.

 

 

I am taking 10mg/day. The usual is 20mg/day but I found that to be way too much for me. I was burning up at night, couldn't sleep and I had an allergic reaction to it. I developed a really bad rash similar to poison ivy all over my arms and legs. Dropped to 10mg, which was tolerable. 

[APBT]

I am taking 10mg/day. The usual is 20mg/day but I found that to be way too much for me. I was burning up at night, couldn't sleep and I had an allergic reaction to it. I developed a really bad rash similar to poison ivy all over my arms and legs. Dropped to 10mg, which was tolerable. 

 

 

How long was your cycle?

AM or PM ingestion?

With or without food?

Did you use powder or a pre-mixed solution?

Trusted vendor for purchase?

[mikey]

 

Hmm looks like it was right decision to get it quickly...1g a day sounds insane high btw...in terms of price too

 

Yes, it is a bit sad THT is considering closing down... 

 

You can get it by the kilo for horses but I wouldn't go there...

 

Innovagen has it in solution for injection but I'm not willing to go that far.

 

I talk to misteryouaresodumb about it and he was opened to the idea so maybe if enough of us show interest... he might start carrying it if there is a market...

 

 

 

The version that is made for horses is fine. In fact, it must pass FDA (GMP) standards to be sold in the vet industry. Therefore, one can trust a product made for horses better than one can trust buying it from some internet vendor.

[RJ23_1989]

 

I am taking 10mg/day. The usual is 20mg/day but I found that to be way too much for me. I was burning up at night, couldn't sleep and I had an allergic reaction to it. I developed a really bad rash similar to poison ivy all over my arms and legs. Dropped to 10mg, which was tolerable. 

 

 

How long was your cycle?

AM or PM ingestion?

With or without food?

Did you use powder or a pre-mixed solution?

Trusted vendor for purchase?

 

Usual cycle is about 10 weeks, I usually take it in the morning before breakfast it doesn't bother my stomach. Its capsules, I like enhanced athletes products, so I went with them.

[thedarkbobo]

Any good vendor around (for horses or not) ? (can pm please if it shouldn't be posted)

I feel like doing another round of this now after 2 years.

[Izan]

i still have 10 grams of ITPP sealed in its original package. I bought it from tht.co. PM me if someone is interested to buy it from me.