2208 replies to this topic

[blazewind]

In the literature, Cerebrolysin seems to act as a neurotrophic factor itself and increases glucose uptake in the brain while Semax and Noopept seem to increase known neurotrophic factors. I am trying to find out how Cerebrolysin was discovered in the first place...

[yowza]

It has been a while since I have started taking cerebrolysin. Initial dose was 5 ml, I increased it to 10 ml couple of days ago. To be honest, I did not feel much the day I have started using cerebrolysin. I have been taking many other supplements as well, so I could not judge the effects accurately.

It's the second day I take cerebrolysin only. The effect is very interesting, I wake up very energetic, my sensitivity to caffeine has increased a lot. A cup of espresso is too much for me.

Cerebrolysin appears to have some kind of antidepressant / anti-anxiety effect. I have never used anxiolytics or antidepressants before but I noticed that I don't feel depressed or anxious under extremely stressful situations. I had trouble getting asleep as well, but now I just go to my bed and I get asleep in 10-15 mins.

Cerebrolysin probably does not have a typical antidepressant / anxiolytic affect. I guess that you can only notice the effect of cerebrolysin if you have to undergo extremely high workload, stressful situations... I simply don't get tired and I can relax much easier after any stressful event

This nootropic is one of those which have a very pronounced effect and it scares me To be honest, it is one of the reasons I will not continue taking cerebrolysin. Nobody knows what are the long term effects of this drug. I am a healthy individual, so I don't see any need to take a risk and use it any longer. However it was a positive experience

I have a few questions if you wouldn't mind answering them?

1) How long did you use it for? I beleive there's five 5 ml ampoules in each packet. It sounds like you took 5 ml (first day), 5 ml (2nd day), 10 ml (3rd day), then possibly 5 ml the 5th day if you used all the ampoules up?

2) Dosaging Instructions According to Antiaging-Systems:
The normal dosage pattern seems to be to do an injection 5 days out of a 7 day week for 4 weeks. Alzheimers patients (or possibly certain people suffering a delay of some sort to a lesser severity) would take 1 ml, 5 ml, or 10 ml ampoules once a day Mon.-Fri. (or whatever's 5 days; skipping 2 days each week) for 4 weeks (before waiting 3 months to begin again). The benefits are supposed to last possibly up to 3-6 months.

With that being said, 10 ml seems like it could potentially be a bit much for a healthy person to take. Did you notice a direct difference between the 5 ml on the 1st day vs. the last day? Or the 5 ml (from the 1st and last day) vs. the 10 ml?

3) Any dizziness, headache, or heat sensations? According to http://www.antiaging...erebrolysin.htm these are some rarer side-effects that may occur if administered too quickly? (meaning possibly jumping right up to 10 ml could of been done too quickly?)

4) It doesn't appear side-effects are common. Perhaps a healthy person could order 10 1 ml ampoules (this is much cheaper for around $50) instead of the 5 5ml (around $70) or 5 10ml (around $90). This would mean for $100 someone could do the 4 week program using only 1 ml ampoules instead of paying around $280 for a 4 week program using 5 ml ampoules.

5) I don't want to throw this thread off track here but have you heard of "Cortexinum"?http://www.pharmacy1...age.asp?id=1375
It seems surprisingly similar to Cerebrolysin. I'm wondering if this is some sort of Russian variant brand of Cerebrolysin?

In the literature, Cerebrolysin seems to act as a neurotrophic factor itself and increases glucose uptake in the brain while Semax and Noopept seem to increase known neurotrophic factors. I am trying to find out how Cerebrolysin was discovered in the first place...

That's a good question, I'm wondering the same thing now that I think of it.

Edited by yowza, 21 April 2009 - 02:13 AM.

[blazewind]

I read some studies on the oral version of Cerebrolysin, and it looks you need 7X more to get the same effect as the injected version of Cerebrolysin. The patent for the oral version of Cerebrolysin lists the exact sequences of the 2 peptides and is here: http://www.google.co...olysin#PPA10,M1

The oral version of Cerebrolysin is marketed at memoprove.com probably because it has the same effect Cerebrolysin but costs 7X more to produce so no need to spend tons of money to release it for medical reasons.

It may be possible to get this synthesized on the cheap to get the same effect as Cerebrolysin without injection.

[NootropicEU]

I read some studies on the oral version of Cerebrolysin, and it looks you need 7X more to get the same effect as the injected version of Cerebrolysin. The patent for the oral version of Cerebrolysin lists the exact sequences of the 2 peptides and is here: http://www.google.co...olysin#PPA10,M1

The oral version of Cerebrolysin is marketed at memoprove.com probably because it has the same effect Cerebrolysin but costs 7X more to produce so no need to spend tons of money to release it for medical reasons.

It may be possible to get this synthesized on the cheap to get the same effect as Cerebrolysin without injection.

I will post this again:

There are no Cerebrolysin alternatives which can be taken orally except N-PEP-12(MemoProve) which is a derivative of Cerebrolysin and it is much less potent.

Effects of N-PEP-12 on memory among older adults.

Crook TH, Ferris SH, Alvarez XA, Laredo M, Moessler H.

Psychologix, Inc., Fort Lauderdale, FL 33308, USA. tcrook@psychologix.com

N-PEP-12 is a derivative of cerebrolysin, a brain-derived neuropeptide compound that has been approved for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease (AD) in more than 30 countries. N-PEP-12 is much less potent than cerebrolysin but it can be administered orally whereas the parent compound must be administered through multiple intravenous infusions. This study was undertaken to determine whether N-PEP-12 is effective in improving memory and other cognitive abilities among healthy older adults who have experienced 'normal' age-related memory loss. Subjects were 54 males and females, aged 50 years and older, who presented both subjective and objective evidence of memory loss since early adulthood. The study was a fully randomized, double-blind comparison of N-PEP-12 and placebo. Cognitive assessments were performed at baseline and following 30 days of treatment. The primary outcome measure was the Alzheimer's Disease Assessment Scale-Cognitive (ADAS-cog) Memory score, with the Syndrom Kurz Test (SKT) test, digit cancellation, digit span, verbal fluency and clinical ratings as secondary outcomes. N-PEP-12 treated subjects performed better than placebo-treated subjects on the ADAS-cog Memory score, the SKT, clinical ratings and some, but not other tests. N-PEP-12 may be an effective treatment for memory loss in healthy older adults.

Publication Types:

* Clinical Trial
* Randomized Controlled Trial


PMID: 15729085 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[yowza]

I read some studies on the oral version of Cerebrolysin, and it looks you need 7X more to get the same effect as the injected version of Cerebrolysin. The patent for the oral version of Cerebrolysin lists the exact sequences of the 2 peptides and is here: http://www.google.co...olysin#PPA10,M1

The oral version of Cerebrolysin is marketed at memoprove.com probably because it has the same effect Cerebrolysin but costs 7X more to produce so no need to spend tons of money to release it for medical reasons.

It may be possible to get this synthesized on the cheap to get the same effect as Cerebrolysin without injection.

I will post this again:

There are no Cerebrolysin alternatives which can be taken orally except N-PEP-12(MemoProve) which is a derivative of Cerebrolysin and it is much less potent.

Effects of N-PEP-12 on memory among older adults.

Crook TH, Ferris SH, Alvarez XA, Laredo M, Moessler H.

Psychologix, Inc., Fort Lauderdale, FL 33308, USA. tcrook@psychologix.com

N-PEP-12 is a derivative of cerebrolysin, a brain-derived neuropeptide compound that has been approved for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease (AD) in more than 30 countries. N-PEP-12 is much less potent than cerebrolysin but it can be administered orally whereas the parent compound must be administered through multiple intravenous infusions. This study was undertaken to determine whether N-PEP-12 is effective in improving memory and other cognitive abilities among healthy older adults who have experienced 'normal' age-related memory loss. Subjects were 54 males and females, aged 50 years and older, who presented both subjective and objective evidence of memory loss since early adulthood. The study was a fully randomized, double-blind comparison of N-PEP-12 and placebo. Cognitive assessments were performed at baseline and following 30 days of treatment. The primary outcome measure was the Alzheimer's Disease Assessment Scale-Cognitive (ADAS-cog) Memory score, with the Syndrom Kurz Test (SKT) test, digit cancellation, digit span, verbal fluency and clinical ratings as secondary outcomes. N-PEP-12 treated subjects performed better than placebo-treated subjects on the ADAS-cog Memory score, the SKT, clinical ratings and some, but not other tests. N-PEP-12 may be an effective treatment for memory loss in healthy older adults.

Publication Types:

* Clinical Trial
* Randomized Controlled Trial


PMID: 15729085 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Could you answer a few of my questions by any chance? This would help fill in some grey areas.

I hope by memoprove you don't mean this... http://www.memoprove.com/
That's pretty worthless. The valuable ingrediants that are in it are in very small amounts. There's no list of ingrediants cause if you were to go to wiki, or wherever, and check on daily amounts for some of the amino acids or other nutrients in this (stuff thrown in besides the peptides), you'll find they're in very small amounts. So they're not going to make a big difference in the short-term.

It's just another one of those fancily advertised supplement formulas that can be bought on the internet (which by the way aren't very forthcoming on their site showing a list of ingrediants). Even if this one has some science behind it and is made by Ebewe (the official manufacturers of Cerebrolysin), I wouldn't get too excited about it.

Neuropeptides, the main selling point behind what seems like an all encombassing product (sarcasm), aren't absorbed thru the intestine that well anyway. This is why alot of peptide compounds out there are administered nasally (desmopressin, Semax, oxytocin) or thru injection.

The oral version of Cerebrolysin is marketed at memoprove.com probably because it has the same effect Cerebrolysin but costs 7X more to produce so no need to spend tons of money to release it for medical reasons.

This whole thing about administering this orally is confusing...
Memoprove and the oral form of cerebrolysin (used in the study) seem to be 2 seperate but somewhat related things.
I'm wondering if a few of the peptide ingrediants in memoprove (that they probably picked and chose which ones to include and which ones to leave out) were derived from this oral version of cerebrolysin (used in the study). In this way, maybe memoprove is a kind of a watered down/mass marketed version of what's described in the patent link with some small amounts of various vitamins/amino acids thrown in for good measure to make the item marketable. From a marketing standpoint, they probably figured it would be better to sell a all-in-one nutritional formula than something for medical purposes such as a more costly/less effective oral form of the injectable cerebrolysin.

I'm looking thru the stuff on the patent link to see what they did exactly to administer it orally. If there was a possible way they were able to do this (both from a practical and commercial standpoint), it would probably be used for medical purposes. Unfortunately it would probably have to be individually synthesized to try this much less efficient form of cerebrolysin out.

Edited by yowza, 22 April 2009 - 01:32 AM.

[NootropicEU]

It has been a while since I have started taking cerebrolysin. Initial dose was 5 ml, I increased it to 10 ml couple of days ago. To be honest, I did not feel much the day I have started using cerebrolysin. I have been taking many other supplements as well, so I could not judge the effects accurately.

It's the second day I take cerebrolysin only. The effect is very interesting, I wake up very energetic, my sensitivity to caffeine has increased a lot. A cup of espresso is too much for me.

Cerebrolysin appears to have some kind of antidepressant / anti-anxiety effect. I have never used anxiolytics or antidepressants before but I noticed that I don't feel depressed or anxious under extremely stressful situations. I had trouble getting asleep as well, but now I just go to my bed and I get asleep in 10-15 mins.

Cerebrolysin probably does not have a typical antidepressant / anxiolytic affect. I guess that you can only notice the effect of cerebrolysin if you have to undergo extremely high workload, stressful situations... I simply don't get tired and I can relax much easier after any stressful event

This nootropic is one of those which have a very pronounced effect and it scares me To be honest, it is one of the reasons I will not continue taking cerebrolysin. Nobody knows what are the long term effects of this drug. I am a healthy individual, so I don't see any need to take a risk and use it any longer. However it was a positive experience

I have a few questions if you wouldn't mind answering them?

1) How long did you use it for? I beleive there's five 5 ml ampoules in each packet. It sounds like you took 5 ml (first day), 5 ml (2nd day), 10 ml (3rd day), then possibly 5 ml the 5th day if you used all the ampoules up?

2) Dosaging Instructions According to Antiaging-Systems:
The normal dosage pattern seems to be to do an injection 5 days out of a 7 day week for 4 weeks. Alzheimers patients (or possibly certain people suffering a delay of some sort to a lesser severity) would take 1 ml, 5 ml, or 10 ml ampoules once a day Mon.-Fri. (or whatever's 5 days; skipping 2 days each week) for 4 weeks (before waiting 3 months to begin again). The benefits are supposed to last possibly up to 3-6 months.

With that being said, 10 ml seems like it could potentially be a bit much for a healthy person to take. Did you notice a direct difference between the 5 ml on the 1st day vs. the last day? Or the 5 ml (from the 1st and last day) vs. the 10 ml?

3) Any dizziness, headache, or heat sensations? According to http://www.antiaging...erebrolysin.htm these are some rarer side-effects that may occur if administered too quickly? (meaning possibly jumping right up to 10 ml could of been done too quickly?)

4) It doesn't appear side-effects are common. Perhaps a healthy person could order 10 1 ml ampoules (this is much cheaper for around $50) instead of the 5 5ml (around $70) or 5 10ml (around $90). This would mean for $100 someone could do the 4 week program using only 1 ml ampoules instead of paying around $280 for a 4 week program using 5 ml ampoules.

5) I don't want to throw this thread off track here but have you heard of "Cortexinum"?http://www.pharmacy1...age.asp?id=1375
It seems surprisingly similar to Cerebrolysin. I'm wondering if this is some sort of Russian variant brand of Cerebrolysin?

In the literature, Cerebrolysin seems to act as a neurotrophic factor itself and increases glucose uptake in the brain while Semax and Noopept seem to increase known neurotrophic factors. I am trying to find out how Cerebrolysin was discovered in the first place...

That's a good question, I'm wondering the same thing now that I think of it.

1) I had 2 packs of cerebrolysin. I used 5 ml for the first 3 days and 10 for ml for 2 days.

2) I did not notice anything for the first 2 days. The effect became really noticeable on the 3rd day, even more noticeable on 4th and 5th. Btw, 1 ml ampules are usually given to kids.

3) I did not feel any dizziness, headache, or heat sensations. Those side effects usually occur when you inject a cold liquid intravenously. To avoid this it has to be warm enough (room temperature) and you have to inject it slowly.

4) 1 ml is a very small dose, it is not enough even for a healthy adult. I have read the instructions and it says that doses of 1-2 ml are given to kids. Doses up to 50 ml (IV) can be given in severe cases. Cerebrolysin is overpriced if you buy it online. I bought another pack of cerebrolysin while traveling in one of the EU countries, the price at the pharmacy was 34 USD (5 x 5ml amp)

5) If I remember correctly cortexin is made from cattle brain. I will try to get some more info about it.

Edited by anony4mous, 22 April 2009 - 01:32 AM.

[yowza]

1) I had 2 packs of cerebrolysin. I used 5 ml for the first 3 days and 10 for ml for 2 days.

2) I did not notice anything for the first 2 days. The effect became really noticeable on the 3rd day, even more noticeable on 4th and 5th. Btw, 1 ml ampules are usually given to kids.

3) I did not feel any dizziness, headache, or heat sensations. Those side effects usually occur when you inject a cold liquid intravenously. To avoid this it has to be warm enough (room temperature) and you have to inject it slowly.

4) 1 ml is a very small dose, it is not enough even for a healthy adult. I have read the instructions and it says that doses of 1-2 ml are given to kids. Doses up to 50 ml (IV) can be given in severe cases. Cerebrolysin is overpriced if you buy it online. I bought another pack of cerebrolysin while traveling in one of the EU countries, the price at the pharmacy was 34 USD (5 x 5ml amp)

Thanks!

So you must have 2 ampoules of cerebrolysin left when you decided to end it. This definitely shows that there's some effect, which is good since it was positive for you.

I'd be interested in trying a 2 week trial of this stuff. Are there any European pharmacy's that would be willing to ship internationally? I know this is tough. As most online pharmacies (like antiaging systems) never will ship certain pharmaceutical items to countries in the European Union, it would make sense for online pharmacies to be scarce around here. Maybe there's a few country's that aren't so stringent? It would be a shame to pay near $200 for 2 packets of 5 ml when I could pay $34 per pack...

5) If I remember correctly cortexin is made from cattle brain. I will try to get some more info about it.

Based on the description, they seemed like the exact same thing. The word "cerebrolysin" and "cortexinum" just sound similar (cerebral+cortex) so I just assumed it was the same name with the russian brand of cerebrolysin translated into bad English.

Wierd that there's actually a difference. Maybe beef is cheaper than pork over in Russia?

Edited by yowza, 22 April 2009 - 01:59 AM.

[yowza]

1) I had 2 packs of cerebrolysin. I used 5 ml for the first 3 days and 10 for ml for 2 days.

2) I did not notice anything for the first 2 days. The effect became really noticeable on the 3rd day, even more noticeable on 4th and 5th. Btw, 1 ml ampules are usually given to kids.

3) I did not feel any dizziness, headache, or heat sensations. Those side effects usually occur when you inject a cold liquid intravenously. To avoid this it has to be warm enough (room temperature) and you have to inject it slowly.

4) 1 ml is a very small dose, it is not enough even for a healthy adult. I have read the instructions and it says that doses of 1-2 ml are given to kids. Doses up to 50 ml (IV) can be given in severe cases. Cerebrolysin is overpriced if you buy it online. I bought another pack of cerebrolysin while traveling in one of the EU countries, the price at the pharmacy was 34 USD (5 x 5ml amp)

Thanks!

So you must have 2 ampoules of cerebrolysin left when you decided to end it. This definitely shows that there's some effect, which is good since it was positive for you.

I'd be interested in trying a 2 week trial of this stuff. Are there any European pharmacy's that would be willing to ship internationally? I know this is tough. As most online pharmacies (like antiaging systems) never will ship certain pharmaceutical items to countries in the European Union, it would make sense for online pharmacies to be scarce around here. Maybe there's a few country's that aren't so stringent? It would be a shame to pay near $200 for 2 packets of 5 ml when I could pay $34 per pack...

5) If I remember correctly cortexin is made from cattle brain. I will try to get some more info about it.

Based on the description, they seemed like the exact same thing. The word "cerebrolysin" and "cortexinum" just sound similar (cerebral+cortex) so I just assumed it was the same name with the russian brand of cerebrolysin translated into bad English.

Wierd that there's actually a difference. Maybe beef is cheaper than pork over in Russia?

Well, until this is figured out, I guess we may as well stick with Cerebrolysin (afterall, pigs are smarter than cows right?).

Here's another price quote I got from a supplier (the last one is located on this thread as well). For specific supplier info. I can be pm'd.:

Sorry to reply you late. We can supply both Cerebrolysin concentrate(total nitrogen: 20.8~31.2mg/ml) and Cerebrolysin hydrolysate(total nitrogen:4.2~6.2mg/ml).

Cerebrolysin concentrate
USD 130.0/Litre FOB Chinese main port

Please reply us to ______________ We will send you detailed spec.

B'rgds

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Requested the Optional Info
- Minimum Order Quantity: 50litres
- Payment Terms: T/T
- Sample Availability / Cost: Charge / 50
- Packing Details: 20litres/carton
- Inspection Certifcate: available
- Country of Origin: China
- Delivery Lead Time: within 20days
- Product Description Spec : Total Nitrogen 20.8~31.2mg/ml

[NootropicEU]

I'd be interested in trying a 2 week trial of this stuff. Are there any European pharmacy's that would be willing to ship internationally? I know this is tough. As most online pharmacies (like antiaging systems) never will ship certain pharmaceutical items to countries in the European Union, it would make sense for online pharmacies to be scarce around here. Maybe there's a few country's that aren't so stringent? It would be a shame to pay near $200 for 2 packets of 5 ml when I could pay $34 per pack...

I bought in a regular pharmacy, not the online pharmacy. Those pharmacies do not ship their products by post, you have to come and buy it directly from them. I would advise you to be careful with those Chinese suppliers. You should get all Chinese medicines tested before you use it.

More info on Cortexin:

Cortexin peptide drug is largely similar to the cerebrolysin, used also by intramuscular injection./Pharmacological Effects: The drug improves cerebral metabolism. Cortexin represents liofilizat obtained by acetate extract from the bark of the brain of cattle or pigs, which contains low-molecular active neuropeptides, the molecular weight of not more than 10 000 dalton, sufficient to penetrate through hematoencephalic barrier./Cortexin has a unique multi-effects on the brain, as demonstrated in metabolic regulation, neuropatronage, functional neuromodulation, neurotrophic activity. Cortexin improves the efficiency of energy metabolism of brain cells, improves the intracellular synthesis of protein, regulates the processes of oxidation of lipids in cells of the brain reduces the formation of free radicals, blocking the processes of free-radical oxidation. The product eliminates the imbalance of braking and excitatory amino acids, has a moderate GABA-ergic action./The drug has a positive effect in violation of cognitive function, improves concentration, short-term memory, learning ability, accelerates the recovery of the functions of the brain after stress effects, regulates the levels of serotonin and dopamine. It stimulates the process of mental activity, not providing excessive activation of influence, restores bioelectric activity of the brain, stimulates the reparative processes in the brain./Indications for use: Violations of the cerebral circulation; encephalopathy of different genesis, acute and chronic encephalitis and encephalomyelitis, epilepsy, brain trauma, viral and bacterial neuroinfection; infantile cerebral palsy, delayed psychomotor and speech development in children; asthenia, memory, thinking, reducing the ability to learn.

Edited by anony4mous, 27 April 2009 - 11:31 AM.

[yowza]

I'd be interested in trying a 2 week trial of this stuff. Are there any European pharmacy's that would be willing to ship internationally? I know this is tough. As most online pharmacies (like antiaging systems) never will ship certain pharmaceutical items to countries in the European Union, it would make sense for online pharmacies to be scarce around here. Maybe there's a few country's that aren't so stringent? It would be a shame to pay near $200 for 2 packets of 5 ml when I could pay $34 per pack...

I bought in a regular pharmacy, not the online pharmacy. Those pharmacies do not ship their products by post, you have to come and buy it directly from them. I would advise you to be careful with those Chinese suppliers. You should get all Chinese medicines tested before you use it.

More info on Cortexin:

Cortexin peptide drug is largely similar to the cerebrolysin, used also by intramuscular injection./Pharmacological Effects: The drug improves cerebral metabolism. Cortexin represents liofilizat obtained by acetate extract from the bark of the brain of cattle or pigs, which contains low-molecular active neuropeptides, the molecular weight of not more than 10 000 dalton, sufficient to penetrate through hematoencephalic barrier./Cortexin has a unique multi-effects on the brain, as demonstrated in metabolic regulation, neuropatronage, functional neuromodulation, neurotrophic activity. Cortexin improves the efficiency of energy metabolism of brain cells, improves the intracellular synthesis of protein, regulates the processes of oxidation of lipids in cells of the brain reduces the formation of free radicals, blocking the processes of free-radical oxidation. The product eliminates the imbalance of braking and excitatory amino acids, has a moderate GABA-ergic action./The drug has a positive effect in violation of cognitive function, improves concentration, short-term memory, learning ability, accelerates the recovery of the functions of the brain after stress effects, regulates the levels of serotonin and dopamine. It stimulates the process of mental activity, not providing excessive activation of influence, restores bioelectric activity of the brain, stimulates the reparative processes in the brain./Indications for use: Violations of the cerebral circulation; encephalopathy of different genesis, acute and chronic encephalitis and encephalomyelitis, epilepsy, brain trauma, viral and bacterial neuroinfection; infantile cerebral palsy, delayed psychomotor and speech development in children; asthenia, memory, thinking, reducing the ability to learn.

You're right about doublechecking some of the products from China. The main reason I posted that last supplier statement was cause I don't know what they mean by Cerebrolysin concentrate vs. cerebrolysin lhydroysate. Neither one of them are finished product (come in syringes or ampoules) so I'm wondering what they mean by that?

Thanks for the info. on the cortexinum. It makes it sound like manna from heaven! Too bad there doesn't appear to be any info. on which one (cerebrolysin vs. cortexinum) would have the edge over the other. Right now, I'd put my bet on cerebrolysin just cause that's easier to find studies on and it seems to carry the same benefits?

[Guacamolium]

Concentrate always means - impure. Hydrolyate means a more exact synthesis of adding hydrogen to the the purified mix. Both kinda suck, because all you want is the chemical, but what the process gives you, is impurities. The more you get rid of that - the higher the costs get.

[yowza]

Concentrate always means - impure. Hydrolyate means a more exact synthesis of adding hydrogen to the the purified mix. Both kinda suck, because all you want is the chemical, but what the process gives you, is impurities. The more you get rid of that - the higher the costs get.

Thanks. For some reason, I was under the impression that the concentrate form was, well, for lack of a better term overly concentrated. The hydrolysate must have been added for one reason or another.

I think the first quote I got (before this one) was pretty good since they at least sold finished product. It's too bad they wanted a minimum order of 20,000 syringes, which would be around $6000.

On a positive, note, however, there are alot of companies out there that sell this so maybe one of them would be willing to sell at lower quantities.

[blazewind]

I remember reading in a study that the normal Cerebrolysin is 30~ percent peptides and the rest amino acids, while the concentrated version was 80~ percent peptides and the rest amino acids.

[NootropicEU]

Any other experiences? Yowza, did you manage to get some Cerebrolysin? I will do 5 day course next week. Let's see how it works this time...

[yowza]

Unfortunately, I don't have the money to order Cerebrolysin at the moment. In the meantime, I've been studying things over in regards to this product and when I have chance, I will order it.

Right now, I still have yet to recieve my Noopept (that I ordered 2 weeks ago). It should arrive any day now. Once I receive it, I can post my experiences over in the Noopept thread. For now, I'm taking 1 thing at a time.

Edited by yowza, 08 May 2009 - 02:07 AM.

[russianBEAR]

Well, if you guys are still interested in hearing all about Cerebrolysine and how it compares to other similar drugs...

I live in Russia so we have the widest possible variety of nootropics available mostly over the counter, and mostly without prescription (pharmacies are all about cash here). 

Basically I've done pretty much every "smart drug" you can name both as part of some kind of a "monthly cycle/course" alone, as well as in a variety of combinations.

As far as Cerebrolysine goes, yeah it's expensive as **** and it's also very effective. I've worked an incredibly stressful job where you have to work very very fast under enormous amounts of pressure, and one even small mistake can lead to you being fired or worse. Basically doing something that takes 10-15 minutes in 30 seconds was the absolute norm in the workplace at the time (24-hour television news, working in the directors gallery where the stuff airs from, what can I say it was crazy, glad I moved to a lower-stress department).

I was taking up to 10 ml of cerebrolysine daily at work though I/M injections, easily for a good 6 months if not more. (Usually in 2 injections, although I've shot 10ml straight up before in one large syringe) Since I worked in 4-day shifts, I'd usually go 4 days on and then 4 days off to cool off my neurons That easily allowed me to handle all the stresses, and I was one of the best at that particular job. Despite having abused illegal drugs in the past and being a frequent cannabis smoker, I experienced little to no "stoner burnout" and was able to concentrate and perform tasks faster than most of my colleagues at the same experience level. After a long 12-hour work day, after which a normal brain turns to mush, I was still fresh and eager to go out with friends/ see girls etc, while otherwise I'd be drained and only wanting to sleep.

So instead of rambling on further, let me just break down some effects and side-effects, short and long term:

-This stuff has a MARKED anti-depressant effect. You basically feel like back in the happiest moments of your childhood. Everyone has had one of those days when they're just "on fire" and "on top of the game". With Cerebrolysine, pretty much every day is like that - you're not overly happy or vegetated like off standard anti-depressants, but you're "on point" at whatever you do. Stuff like your subconscious and conscious fears all go right out of the window, and it has a bit of a socially-inhibiting effect too.

-If you thought weed gets you the munchies, wait till you try this stuff. When you first start on this cycle, you get hungry as a SAVAGE. I usually eat just enough to be full, not overly gorged, but this stuff had me tearing up huge meals and not even feeling incapacitated by everything I just ate. I'd attribute this to the fact that with all the additional peptides and stuff, your body needs more nutrition. Sort of like adding B-vitamins to stuff like Pyritinol or even good old 5-HTP.

-Cerebrolysine helps alleviate most, if not all symptoms of post-intoxication syndrome for illicit drugs. I once gave my friend a shot after his most recent cocaine binge and he turned from a pale shadow who was about to pass out back to his normal self - energetic, enthusiastic, and motivated. Plus his foul mood and edginess were completely gone. It also seems to ease the alcohol-related hangover better than some other substances (although many nootropics are much better for that IMO since they're GABA-active). My other friend also liked taking it as a "corrector agent" for other nootropics/supplements, claiming it helped alleviate certain unwanted effects of piracetam, while preventing one from overloading on one particular amino acid too much. I personally avoid ALL other substances when doing cerebrolysine. It simply overshadows them all for me.

-They definitely put some kind of a painkiller in there. Shooting cortexin (which is similar, but I like it alot less, as it "vegetates" and sedates me too much to where I'm more mentally capable, but simply don't care) without a novacaine solution is literally a huge pain in the rear, while shooting straight cerebrolysine into my tiny tricep with a huge needle made my whole arm go numb for a short time, like an anastetic would.

-I've measured my blood pressure several times before and after the injections, and there is a slight blood pressure elevation. If you inject too fast, the heart rate jumps and you may sweat profusely. However it gives you a nice sort of a "rush" to where you feel very relaxed, but not incapacitated or drugged by any stretch of imagination. The headaches are there, but are very slight, and usually start about 2-3 hours after the injection. 

-The long-term effects aren't so pleasant. There is an increasing feeling of "mounting personal hell" as I like to call it. Basically, all the negative traits of one's character seem to be unnaturally emphasized and underlined in your mind, while the positives seem little and insignificant. It doesn't really manifest itself in a severe form to others, but you may feel "grumpy" and "dissatisfied" even when you seem to be razor-sharp mentally. A good comparision would be some rich spoiled kid who has everything throwing tantrums and breaking stuff, just because he is rich and spoiled. Several of my friends reported very similar mental side effects. This is what initially led me to stop taking it by "tapering down" (I don't think it's a good method by the way, but since I was doin it daily for a while I decided for a slower descent). A .5 ml less every day for several days, then a week at 1ml and then 0.5 and then you're shooting colored water for placebo effects

- Some people report a HUGE boost in their sexual activity. I noticed only a slight boost  

- When you're off the cerebrolysine, you feel like it's a bad day for no reason (see above having a top of your game day for no reason lol). I didn't notice any significant negative long-term effects on my cognitive processes. On the contrary I seem to be able to concentrate better at any time, without taking any substances, or even after smoking a lot of weed. I'm now able to "zone in" on something more completely and do better at focusing.

-This stuff has very strong and powerful overall effects, it is the most effective out of injectable nootropics/smart drugs that I've tried. Cortexin doesn't even come close, and various Cerebrolysine derivatives (we ahve a Cerebrolysate here) are nothin more than cheap imitations. 

I've decided for another mini-cycle just now, about 3 years after that last lengthy episode. I'm sticking to what the doctors here recommend: 5ml every OTHER day. Seems to be the correct dosage and schedule. 

I hope it doesn't sound too much like promo for the Austrian pharmaceuticals company which makes this stuff. It's really not somethin you want to mess around with if you don't know what you're doing.

Edited by russianBEAR, 01 June 2009 - 09:51 AM.

[FunkOdyssey]

Awesome post russianbear, thanks for the information! What do you think of noopept and afobazol?

[russianBEAR]

Awesome post russianbear, thanks for the information! What do you think of noopept and afobazol?

Well, to be honest I never really found any noopept during my more active "research days". I've seen afobazol plenty of times, but I stayed away from it as well, since I'm weary of "non-benzodiazepine anxiolytics". Nothing other than benzos seemed to do it for me in terms of muscle relaxation/anti-anxiety effects, but those gave me a few permanent sleep problems so I'll pass on all those other "anxiolytics" for now as well.

But that Semax stuff that seems to be all the rage on these forums...I don't know it never really did anything for me at all for intranasal administration, and that's the only preparation I could find. 

[IronFanatic]

Hello russianBear,

I'd like to know if you had any experience using Mexidol? Or the newer drug Bromantan? Ladasten?

Thanks for the feedback

[Ben]

This is an interesting summary of the compound:

http://sci.rutgers.e...mp;d=1143995398

[russianBEAR]

Hello russianBear,

I'd like to know if you had any experience using Mexidol? Or the newer drug Bromantan? Ladasten?

Thanks for the feedback

Haven't heard of the last two (I guess I was wrong earlier sayin I've done the majority of these smart drugs - the market got way ahead of me in the past few years it seems, when I eased up off the nootropics and supplements).


As far as Mexidol - well let's see...

It definitely has a marked sedative and slight antidepressant effect, but my body doesn't seem to like it that much for some reason. I get bouts of depression after I stop taking it even if the doses were minimal (250-350mg) and feel kinda "strange" overall. That taste also seems to linger in a bad way. Tolerance to this substance seems to develop rather quickly as well. It supposidely increases dopamine levels in the brain, so I think there's a "rebound effect" later. 

My grandma however received injections of it after some minor health issue for a short time (can't remember what it was, maybe after her bout with arrhythmia), and it seemed to help her greatly.

It exponentially increases the effects of benzodiazepines, and seems to have the best synergy with clonazepam. Taking this combo has no nootropic merit, but you will feel some very heavy narcotic bliss. You have to take MUCH lower doses of both.

It lowers the toxic effect of alcohol a great deal it seems - and is precscribed for recovering alcoholics. Seems like the majority of these Russian nootropics are developed for that purpose only anyways  

My body stopped being able to take benzodiazepines at some point. I just don't get much of an effect and have some bile or something build up in my stomach, causing me to puke liquid booger-like stuff for the duration of their effect or 24 hours. First it happened with phenazepam, then the same thing happened when I took clonazepam...people took the pills from the same prescription and were fine. I think my body developed an antidote for them. That particular side effect is listed as occuring in less than 1% of people. For that exact reason, I don't touch Mexidol either, because it does something to those benzo receptors and that scares me.

[NootropicEU]

As I mentioned earlier Cerebrolysin works very well. However I recently spoke to a doctor who has explained me how Semax works and he advised me not to take Cerebrolysin. I was told that there is a small risk of anaphylactic shock or allergic reaction.

Apart from that he told me that Cerebrolysin is a foreign protein and he does not recommend it for healthy individuals.

Edited by anony4mous, 10 June 2009 - 10:11 PM.

[russianBEAR]

As I mentioned earlier Cerebrolysin works very well. However I recently spoke to a doctor who has explained me how Semax works and he advised me not to take Cerebrolysin. I was told that there is a small risk of anaphylactic shock or allergic reaction.

Apart from that he told me that Cerebrolysin is a foreign protein and he does not recommend it for healthy individuals.

I'm pretty allergic to various things and had no problems. I'd get worse skin rashes from Picamilon if I took it too much.

[yowza]

Doctors are always very catuious about anything they're unfamiliar with. If the benefit is there, the risk of an allergic reaction should be negligible reason not to take it especially if you have had no rash, respiratory issues, inflammation/pain, or chronic diarhea.

There is no nootropics doctor out there. Sure there are naturopaths but they don't use the nootropic like compounds that we discuss on here.

[Synaptic-Enthusiastic]

Well, if you guys are still interested in hearing all about Cerebrolysine and how it compares to other similar drugs...

I live in Russia so we have the widest possible variety of nootropics available mostly over the counter, and mostly without prescription (pharmacies are all about cash here).

Basically I've done pretty much every "smart drug" you can name both as part of some kind of a "monthly cycle/course" alone, as well as in a variety of combinations.

As far as Cerebrolysine goes, yeah it's expensive as **** and it's also very effective. I've worked an incredibly stressful job where you have to work very very fast under enormous amounts of pressure, and one even small mistake can lead to you being fired or worse. Basically doing something that takes 10-15 minutes in 30 seconds was the absolute norm in the workplace at the time (24-hour television news, working in the directors gallery where the stuff airs from, what can I say it was crazy, glad I moved to a lower-stress department).

I was taking up to 10 ml of cerebrolysine daily at work though I/M injections, easily for a good 6 months if not more. (Usually in 2 injections, although I've shot 10ml straight up before in one large syringe) Since I worked in 4-day shifts, I'd usually go 4 days on and then 4 days off to cool off my neurons That easily allowed me to handle all the stresses, and I was one of the best at that particular job. Despite having abused illegal drugs in the past and being a frequent cannabis smoker, I experienced little to no "stoner burnout" and was able to concentrate and perform tasks faster than most of my colleagues at the same experience level. After a long 12-hour work day, after which a normal brain turns to mush, I was still fresh and eager to go out with friends/ see girls etc, while otherwise I'd be drained and only wanting to sleep.

So instead of rambling on further, let me just break down some effects and side-effects, short and long term:

-This stuff has a MARKED anti-depressant effect. You basically feel like back in the happiest moments of your childhood. Everyone has had one of those days when they're just "on fire" and "on top of the game". With Cerebrolysine, pretty much every day is like that - you're not overly happy or vegetated like off standard anti-depressants, but you're "on point" at whatever you do. Stuff like your subconscious and conscious fears all go right out of the window, and it has a bit of a socially-inhibiting effect too.

-If you thought weed gets you the munchies, wait till you try this stuff. When you first start on this cycle, you get hungry as a SAVAGE. I usually eat just enough to be full, not overly gorged, but this stuff had me tearing up huge meals and not even feeling incapacitated by everything I just ate. I'd attribute this to the fact that with all the additional peptides and stuff, your body needs more nutrition. Sort of like adding B-vitamins to stuff like Pyritinol or even good old 5-HTP.

-Cerebrolysine helps alleviate most, if not all symptoms of post-intoxication syndrome for illicit drugs. I once gave my friend a shot after his most recent cocaine binge and he turned from a pale shadow who was about to pass out back to his normal self - energetic, enthusiastic, and motivated. Plus his foul mood and edginess were completely gone. It also seems to ease the alcohol-related hangover better than some other substances (although many nootropics are much better for that IMO since they're GABA-active). My other friend also liked taking it as a "corrector agent" for other nootropics/supplements, claiming it helped alleviate certain unwanted effects of piracetam, while preventing one from overloading on one particular amino acid too much. I personally avoid ALL other substances when doing cerebrolysine. It simply overshadows them all for me.

-They definitely put some kind of a painkiller in there. Shooting cortexin (which is similar, but I like it alot less, as it "vegetates" and sedates me too much to where I'm more mentally capable, but simply don't care) without a novacaine solution is literally a huge pain in the rear, while shooting straight cerebrolysine into my tiny tricep with a huge needle made my whole arm go numb for a short time, like an anastetic would.

-I've measured my blood pressure several times before and after the injections, and there is a slight blood pressure elevation. If you inject too fast, the heart rate jumps and you may sweat profusely. However it gives you a nice sort of a "rush" to where you feel very relaxed, but not incapacitated or drugged by any stretch of imagination. The headaches are there, but are very slight, and usually start about 2-3 hours after the injection.

-The long-term effects aren't so pleasant. There is an increasing feeling of "mounting personal hell" as I like to call it. Basically, all the negative traits of one's character seem to be unnaturally emphasized and underlined in your mind, while the positives seem little and insignificant. It doesn't really manifest itself in a severe form to others, but you may feel "grumpy" and "dissatisfied" even when you seem to be razor-sharp mentally. A good comparision would be some rich spoiled kid who has everything throwing tantrums and breaking stuff, just because he is rich and spoiled. Several of my friends reported very similar mental side effects. This is what initially led me to stop taking it by "tapering down" (I don't think it's a good method by the way, but since I was doin it daily for a while I decided for a slower descent). A .5 ml less every day for several days, then a week at 1ml and then 0.5 and then you're shooting colored water for placebo effects

- Some people report a HUGE boost in their sexual activity. I noticed only a slight boost

- When you're off the cerebrolysine, you feel like it's a bad day for no reason (see above having a top of your game day for no reason lol). I didn't notice any significant negative long-term effects on my cognitive processes. On the contrary I seem to be able to concentrate better at any time, without taking any substances, or even after smoking a lot of weed. I'm now able to "zone in" on something more completely and do better at focusing.

-This stuff has very strong and powerful overall effects, it is the most effective out of injectable nootropics/smart drugs that I've tried. Cortexin doesn't even come close, and various Cerebrolysine derivatives (we ahve a Cerebrolysate here) are nothin more than cheap imitations.

I've decided for another mini-cycle just now, about 3 years after that last lengthy episode. I'm sticking to what the doctors here recommend: 5ml every OTHER day. Seems to be the correct dosage and schedule.

I hope it doesn't sound too much like promo for the Austrian pharmaceuticals company which makes this stuff. It's really not somethin you want to mess around with if you don't know what you're doing.

russianBEAR! Thanks for a great review on your experience on cerebrolysin. Could you tell me more about your view on the permanent effects of this drug? Do you feel substancially different after taking your first cycle? Im trying it now, but i´ll follow the 5ml IM a day indication.

Best of lucks,

[Betsy]

My husband is an M.D. in Mexico and I work in his office. Cerebrolysin is approved for use in Mexico and we have had some amazing results with it on our patients. We do not use the I.M injections, it is just not as effective. A course of treatment in pur office is an intravenous solution 5 times a week for 4 weeks. We have people that come here from the U.S. and Canada just to have this treatment. The last patient that started the treatment had stopped talking, he would answer you if he was spoken to but did not initiate conversations. He had stopped eating, his wife had to force him to eat. His memory was so bad he could not find his way to the bathroom in his own house. After the first few treatments Mark began to eat again, a huge relief for his wife. He has progressed rapidly and has even started playing cards again, his favorite passtime. Yesterday when Mark came in for his treatment I was sitting at my desk and he Smiled this big smile and said "Hi Honey". I swear, tears came to my eyes and I said " Hi Mark, how are you?" He said " I'm fine Betsy, good to see you". This sounds like such a small thing but for him to actually speak without being spoken to and even remember my name was incredible. His wife used to sit in the waiting room and wait for him but now she can tell him to meet her at the coffee shop or the yarn store where she sits and knits with her friend, something that was impossible 5 weeks ago. I am using Mark as one example, but I could sit here all day and write about people that have been helped by this amazing treatment. Results vary, but in our office they have always been positive. I read everything I can about cerebrolysin, but in my position I can testify first hand about what it really does. Although cerebrolysin is very safe to use I believe that it should only be administered by a doctor. It is a shame that this drug is not yet USDA approved in the U.S. , It is all about money. This treatment is not making us rich and most doctors in the U.S. are only interested in what is going to make them wealthy. Aside from that, there is another reason it is not widely used in the U.S. ....The fact that it is not USDA approved does not mean that it is illeagle to use, but most doctors insurance company will not permit them to use a non USDA approved drug. I have found one clinic in the U.S. that does use it, but I do not know how much they charge. I would like to know of any doctors in the U.S. that use it....I don't know if that would violate any policy here. Anyway, Cerebrolysin WORKS, people, for any form of dementia, ADD and stroke.

[Betsy]

As I mentioned earlier Cerebrolysin works very well. However I recently spoke to a doctor who has explained me how Semax works and he advised me not to take Cerebrolysin. I was told that there is a small risk of anaphylactic shock or allergic reaction.

Apart from that he told me that Cerebrolysin is a foreign protein and he does not recommend it for healthy individuals.

There is risk involved in every drug or almost anything you put into your mouth. People die from eating peanuts. Consult your doctor but educate yourself and make your decision about what is right for you. Doctors are sometimes motivated by outside influences. I don't know about in the U.S. or where ever it is that you live, but here in Mexico pharmaceutical companies offer prizes, like trips to Cancun to Doctors that prescribe their drug the most. A definate conflict of intrest if you ask me.

[zkt1]

As I mentioned earlier Cerebrolysin works very well. However I recently spoke to a doctor who has explained me how Semax works and he advised me not to take Cerebrolysin. I was told that there is a small risk of anaphylactic shock or allergic reaction.

Apart from that he told me that Cerebrolysin is a foreign protein and he does not recommend it for healthy individuals.

There is risk involved in every drug or almost anything you put into your mouth. People die from eating peanuts. Consult your doctor but educate yourself and make your decision about what is right for you. Doctors are sometimes motivated by outside influences. I don't know about in the U.S. or where ever it is that you live, but here in Mexico pharmaceutical companies offer prizes, like trips to Cancun to Doctors that prescribe their drug the most. A definate conflict of intrest if you ask me.

Could you please provide details regarding the infusions. Are you using a shunt or IV sticks each time? What amount and infusion rate are you using? Thank you for your input.

[yowza]

Great to see there's interest in this again. The main problem with obtaining Cerebrolysin appears to be the price. IF there were a cheaper source around I for one would be very interested. Who knows? Maybe there'll be something in the near future?

Betsy, has your husband had access to any studies comparing the effectiveness of intramuscular vs. IV application of Cerebrolysin? Also has your husband ever used Semax at all?

[NootropicEU]

Great to see there's interest in this again. The main problem with obtaining Cerebrolysin appears to be the price. IF there were a cheaper source around I for one would be very interested. Who knows? Maybe there'll be something in the near future?

Betsy, has your husband had access to any studies comparing the effectiveness of intramuscular vs. IV application of Cerebrolysin? Also has your husband ever used Semax at all?

Well, I can offer it for 5 x 5ml amp. for 60 USD / £ 35.50 with shippping to EU or USA.

I now have the access to pharmaceutical grade cerebrolysin, piracetam, pramiracetam, selegeline, vinpocentine.... Debit/Credit cards are accepted via AlertPay. Products are shipped from Lithuania which is EU country. Shipping usually takes about 1-2 weeks, but sometimes it may take up to 3 weeks.

I am not doing this for profit. I have got someone in Lithuania who is willing to ship it for a small fee.

Edited by anony4mous, 04 August 2009 - 12:36 AM.