2208 replies to this topic

[trevyn]

What needle size is recommended for iv or im injections with Cerebrolysin? I'm thinking about buying 22gx1" needles. Does that seem to be ok?

I'm probably going to make an order (Cerebrolysin and syringes&needles) next week .

I'm considering following cycle: 5days (mon-friday) * 10 ml * 4 weeks

1" 22g needles should be fine for IM, depending on your build. Don't shoot it direct into your veins, please. You want to get it into the muscle, obviously, and if you insert or remove the needle slowly, there's a pretty obvious density difference between the outer fat layer and the inner muscle layer.

I find 10ml daily difficult, because this should be done in two injections, and 1) I don't find the injection process terribly fun and 2) I end up with lots of holes in my thighs.

Edited by trevyn, 02 January 2010 - 10:43 PM.

[niceguj]

What needle size is recommended for iv or im injections with Cerebrolysin? I'm thinking about buying 22gx1" needles. Does that seem to be ok?

I'm probably going to make an order (Cerebrolysin and syringes&needles) next week .

I'm considering following cycle: 5days (mon-friday) * 10 ml * 4 weeks

1" 22g needles should be fine for IM, depending on your build. Don't shoot it direct into your veins, please. You want to get it into the muscle, obviously, and if you insert or remove the needle slowly, there's a pretty obvious density difference between the outer fat layer and the inner muscle layer.

I find 10ml daily difficult, because this should be done in two injections, and 1) I don't find the injection process terribly fun and 2) I end up with lots of holes in my thighs.

IV injection is probably the most effective administration method, but also the most risky and because I don't have any previous experience in doing IV injections on myself I guess that isn't a very good idea, just as you say .

Why can't I inject 10 ml in one shot? Is that dosage to high when doing IM injection? Isn't the bioaviability so poor anyway?

[trevyn]

What needle size is recommended for iv or im injections with Cerebrolysin? I'm thinking about buying 22gx1" needles. Does that seem to be ok?

I'm probably going to make an order (Cerebrolysin and syringes&needles) next week .

I'm considering following cycle: 5days (mon-friday) * 10 ml * 4 weeks

1" 22g needles should be fine for IM, depending on your build. Don't shoot it direct into your veins, please. You want to get it into the muscle, obviously, and if you insert or remove the needle slowly, there's a pretty obvious density difference between the outer fat layer and the inner muscle layer.

I find 10ml daily difficult, because this should be done in two injections, and 1) I don't find the injection process terribly fun and 2) I end up with lots of holes in my thighs.

IV injection is probably the most effective administration method, but also the most risky and because I don't have any previous experience in doing IV injections on myself I guess that isn't a very good idea, just as you say .

Why can't I inject 10 ml in one shot? Is that dosage to high when doing IM injection? Isn't the bioaviability so poor anyway?

Almost all the references I could find regarding IM injection recommended limiting volume injected to a single site to 3-5mL, less for the deltoid muscle. But apparently that's not founded:

http://findarticles....ag=content;col1 :

"An exhaustive review of the literature yielded a total of five studies from 1996 to 2002 which provide support for the use of intramuscular fosphenytoin in volumes up to 30 mL in single sites using single injections.

While the practice of limiting intramuscular volume to 5 mL has been utilized in nursing for many years, there is no current literature that supports this practice."

*goes and orders some 10mL syringes*

[trevyn]

Just injected 10mL in a single injection in the vastus lateralis site. No pain or discomfort, but the volume of fluid was enough that I ended up with a bit of a lump at the site, which was weird.

Going about 2 weeks without CL was not pleasant. I'm in a noticeably better mood and a much better conversationalist when on it.

[Ben]

To those that have been taking cerebrolysin for a while now:

Please update us on your progress. Could someone do a long write up on the effects, etc?

[Neuronic]

I would also like to hear an update. Especially in the area of memory.

I am interested in taking it, but requiring a needle makes me say no unless it's significant.
I know there is a pill form that's not nearly as potent, but hey no needle!

[niceguj]

Got my package today, 15* 5ml. I thought that would be good as a starter pack.

Did my first IM injection today (at 21.25). Got an big air bubble in the syrringe but did the injection anyway (dangerous?). Found the IM injection to be very easy to perform (very simple procedure&No pain).

I don't expect to feel any results the first week, but I admit it feels exciting to test this stuff.

Background: Have taken a pause from higher education after my Bachelor of Science, plan to start study again soon.
Self diagnosis: Cognitive malfunction (brain damage?, find it difficult to focus, concentrate, lousy short term memory, find it difficult to listen/understand people when stressed) due to many years of extreme stress.

[NootropicEU]

Got my package today, 15* 5ml. I thought that would be good as a starter pack.

Did my first IM injection today (at 21.25). Got an big air bubble in the syrringe but did the injection anyway (dangerous?). Found the IM injection to be very easy to perform (very simple procedure&No pain).

I don't expect to feel any results the first week, but I admit it feels exciting to test this stuff.

Background: Have taken a pause from higher education after my Bachelor of Science, plan to start study again soon.
Self diagnosis: Cognitive malfunction (brain damage?, find it difficult to focus, concentrate, lousy short term memory, find it difficult to listen/understand people when stressed) due to many years of extreme stress.

Cerebrolysin may help you, but I am just wondering how healthy is your lifestyle, diet? What's your alcohol intake? Intensive exercising (1-2 hours daily) very often helps to get rid of those minor cognitive disturbances. Those are basic things we all know, but many of us tend to ignore it hoping to find a "magic pill"

[niceguj]

Got my package today, 15* 5ml. I thought that would be good as a starter pack.

Did my first IM injection today (at 21.25). Got an big air bubble in the syrringe but did the injection anyway (dangerous?). Found the IM injection to be very easy to perform (very simple procedure&No pain).

I don't expect to feel any results the first week, but I admit it feels exciting to test this stuff.

Background: Have taken a pause from higher education after my Bachelor of Science, plan to start study again soon.
Self diagnosis: Cognitive malfunction (brain damage?, find it difficult to focus, concentrate, lousy short term memory, find it difficult to listen/understand people when stressed) due to many years of extreme stress.

Cerebrolysin may help you, but I am just wondering how healthy is your lifestyle, diet? What's your alcohol intake? Intensive exercising (1-2 hours daily) very often helps to get rid of those minor cognitive disturbances. Those are basic things we all know, but many of us tend to ignore it hoping to find a "magic pill"

My second injection (5 ml) was done today at 18.00. Just have to sit and wait for that extra neurogenesis

anony4mous: I think my cognitive problems is more serious than minor and thats why I am testing Cerebrolysin. I also have close relatives with neurodegenerative diseases.
My lifestyle: I rarely drink alcohol, I eat nutritious: fish, meat, eggs, veggies, etc etc. + supplements (fish oil, vitamin-d, sometimes piracetam, sometimes melatonin) , exercise almost to much (Strength Training and Aerobic Conditioning). One of my big problems: I stress to much and I am sensitive to stress.

trevyn: Do you take 10 ml injections nowadays, or do you usually do 5 ml injections?

[Neuronic]

Did my first IM injection today (at 21.25). Got an big air bubble in the syrringe but did the injection anyway (dangerous?). Found the IM injection to be very easy to perform (very simple procedure&No pain).

Dude, I am no shot expert but I'm pretty sure it's not good/dangerous for any air to be in the syringe. You're supposed to hold it with the needle up and thump it so that the air goes to the top and then you squeeze it until just the liquid comes out.
Most draw a little extra into the syringe in order to do this and still have the desired dosage.
I know you see it on tv all the time, but it's a real practice.

That being said I'm eager to learn how you feel after a few days! Don't hesitate to post.

[chrono]

Did my first IM injection today (at 21.25). Got an big air bubble in the syrringe but did the injection anyway (dangerous?).

From what I can tell by some quick googling, small air bubbles are not very dangerous in the muscle. They have the potential to rupture small blood vessels, but are absorbed over a day or two. But try to get them out, it's easy. A situation where you are injecting largely experimental substances is not the time to just wing it. Sink a few minutes into a google search, seriously.

Will look forward to getting your perspective after you've gone a week or two.

Just injected 10mL in a single injection in the vastus lateralis site. No pain or discomfort, but the volume of fluid was enough that I ended up with a bit of a lump at the site, which was weird.

Going about 2 weeks without CL was not pleasant. I'm in a noticeably better mood and a much better conversationalist when on it.

Trevyn, can you articulate that unpleasant feeling any more? Was there some feeling of crash after all, or are you saying that you were back at baseline and missing the effects of enhancement of the last 20 days? Do you feel like the positive effects did not persist if you didn't administer on that day?

And how long did it take for that lump from the 10mL site to go away (was it liquid, or swollen tissue)?

Earlier in the thread, annon4mous said that going from 5mL to 10mL/day produced a very noticeable increase in effects after 3-4 days. Will be curious to see if you feel something similar, if you stay with that regimen.

Contrary to trevyn, I did notice a big crash after I stopped using it. One interesting effect I noticed about a week after stopping is that my seep patterns suddenly normalized even though they had been completely irreugular since about age 16.

2150, could you elaborate on the crash that you felt, as well? Was it emotional, or a reversal of the energetic mental effects? Did any of the benefits persist after cessation (sleeping patterns, time management insights)?

[niceguj]

Fifth shot done today (5ml).

I have felt calmer than usual the last two days. I don't know if it is the Cerebrolysin acting or just coincidence.

I just checked and found out that the extra neurogenesis may indeed have calming effects. The newborn neurons may inhibit (repair?) the amygdala (part of the brain that respond to fear). By inhibiting the amygdala, less stress hormones are released within the body.

"Adult-born neurons appear to have a role in the regulation of stress. Studies have linked neurogenesis to the beneficial actions of specific antidepressants, suggesting a connection between decreased hippocampal neurogenesis and depression"

"A plausible model, therefore, is that these neurons augment the role of the hippocampus in the negative feedback mechanism of the HPA-axis (physiological stress) and perhaps in inhibiting the amygdala (the region of brain responsible for fearful responses to stimuli)."

Source:
(http://en.wikipedia....ki/Neurogenesis)

[trevyn]

Trevyn, can you articulate that unpleasant feeling any more? Was there some feeling of crash after all, or are you saying that you were back at baseline and missing the effects of enhancement of the last 20 days? Do you feel like the positive effects did not persist if you didn't administer on that day?

And how long did it take for that lump from the 10mL site to go away (was it liquid, or swollen tissue)?

Earlier in the thread, annon4mous said that going from 5mL to 10mL/day produced a very noticeable increase in effects after 3-4 days. Will be curious to see if you feel something similar, if you stay with that regimen.

After a few days of no dosing, it feels more like a return to baseline than a crash. The effect isn't immediate; I can skip a day without noticing it, but after 2-3 days of no dosing, it becomes apparent. In general, I tend towards mild depression (haven't taken any antidepressants for 10+ years), it's been dark and rainy here for the last month or so, and the CL seems to prevent me from getting too moody. It was only unpleasant in the sense that I was a little crankier, quieter, and less funny when talking with friends.

The two biggest effects I've noticed from Cerebrolysin are mood stabilization and increased facility with spoken language; I'm much more verbal and have an easier time putting complex sentences and thoughts together.

After 2 weeks of no dosing, I did 10mL/day for 5 days with no problem. The effect did not seem substantially more pronounced, but it usually takes a few days to kick in anyway. I reordered enough to do 10mL/day on a consistent basis, and plan to do that when the order arrives. Until then, I'm doing 10mL every other day just so I don't run out.

The lump from the 10mL injections is the injected fluid, and goes away in 10-15 minutes without issue.

Edited by trevyn, 30 January 2010 - 01:15 AM.

[luv2increase]

I am having a hard time understanding how one is supposed to cycle this stuff when in fact, it seems like everyone posts that it really isn't fun getting off the stuff for even a couple days.

The main thing that I wonder is if there is actually any long-lasting benefits that stay with the person after an indefinite cessation? If there is none, I can't see why you'd want to take this stuff for the rest of your life.

Another thing that really bugs me would be the accumulation of the micro/macroscopic glass fragments that you inject into yourself everyday. Glass doesn't just breakdown. It will stay in your body forever.


I would have to say that the longer one would take this stuff, the greater the chances of serious negative effects due to the glass fragments. A filter would surely help, but since these molecules of this stuff are large, I would think that a filter would end up filtering out some of the good stuff too.


Anyway, is that any "permanent" effects from this stuff? Thanks!

[trevyn]

Okey doke, so the drug Abciximab is a 146 kDa protein, and its monograph directs the use of "a sterile, non-pyrogenic, low protein-binding 0.2 or 5 µm syringe filter (Millipore SLGV025LS or SLSV025LS or equivalent)." -http://www.rxlist.co...rug.htm, page 2

So I ordered a box of the SLSV025LS filters, and will use those instead of the (unknown protein-binding) B Braun 5 µm filter straws that I have been using.

No glass, lets proteins through. Problem solved!

Edited by trevyn, 30 January 2010 - 04:47 AM.

[chrono]

No glass, lets proteins through. Problem solved!

Trevyn, great work with the research on glass particles and filtering. I'll be curious if you notice any difference, but it sounds like your effects are fairly appreciable, so I'd like to think that any diminishment was minor.

I hope everyone heeds this advice. I think that not injecting glass particles should be be a priority for everyone, especially in prolonged treatment.

The main thing that I wonder is if there is actually any long-lasting benefits that stay with the person after an indefinite cessation? If there is none, I can't see why you'd want to take this stuff for the rest of your life.

A permanent improvement would be very difficult to measure, and is well outside the scope of any of the studies done so far. Several have shown that cognitive abilities continue to improve for several weeks after cessation, and remain stable for 6 months (at least in AD patients). See Wise Young's Review of studies for examples of this. Though improvements in AD don't necessarily translate to identical improvements for healthy people.

My impression is that cerebrolysin works both by promoting (re)growth of nerve cells, and by supporting mental functions while in vivo. So a somewhat permanent change in brain structure can't be ruled out, but it sounds like the most dramatic effects are realized by cycling. From the reports in this thread it sounds like it works on a wide variety of systems (including emotional), so I don't think a crash feeling necessarily means all benefits have ceased. But there are few details of long-term effects after cessation; I'd like to hear if any of the cognitive benefits persisted as in the studies.

russianbear would have an answer, but he hasn't been on the board in about 4 months.

Edited by chrono, 01 February 2010 - 08:09 PM.

[matter_of_time]

I am using cerebrolysin for a week now. This is my third cycle. I have to say it is a life changing substance for me. It really makes me change my life.

I notice last weekend a "side effect". I have got the flu/a cold, but after the injection I did not feel sick anymore. This happened also the second day. Today I feel fine again.

No glass, lets proteins through. Problem solved!

Trevyn, great work with the research on glass particles and filtering. I'll be curious if you notice any difference, but it sounds like your effects are fairly appreciable, so I'd like to think that any diminishment was minor.

I hope everyone heeds this advice. I think that not injecting glass particles should be be a priority for everyone, especially in prolonged treatment.

The main thing that I wonder is if there is actually any long-lasting benefits that stay with the person after an indefinite cessation? If there is none, I can't see why you'd want to take this stuff for the rest of your life.

A permanent improvement would be very difficult to measure, and is well outside the scope of any of the studies done so far. Several have shown that cognitive abilities continue to improve for several weeks after cessation, and remain stable for 6 months (at least in AD patients). See Wise Young's Review of studies for examples of this. Though improvements in AD don't necessarily translate to identical improvements for healthy people.

My impression is that cerebrolysin works both by promoting (re)growth of nerve cells, and by supporting mental functions while in vivo. So a somewhat permanent change in brain structure can't be ruled out, but it sounds like the most dramatic effects are realized by cycling. From the reports in this thread it sounds like it works on a wide variety of systems (including emotional), so I don't think a crash feeling necessarily means all benefits have ceased. But there are few details of long-term effects after cessation; I'd like to hear if any of the cognitive benefits persisted as in the studies.

russianbear would have an answer, but he hasn't been on the board in about 4 months.

[russianBEAR]

Well, I don't visit these forums much anymore since I really don't agree with a lot of what's being promoted in other sections, but I saw a lot of private messages, and yall want to know more about Cerebrolysin I guess...

I took another 8 ampules of 5ml recently - doing one a day. I also found some "expert opinion".

Turns out the official line on Cerebrolysin in Russia is: It is weak and only suitable for children; or It is totally placebo and not effective. None of those doctors who said it were neurochemists, I think one was a cardiologist, among other doctors my grandma visits - since she told me this. 


They all tow the company line like good boys though and promote the hell out of Russian-made Mexidol, which I dislike for various reasons, such as it's action on benzodiazepine receptors and on dopamine.

Either way, I completely disagree with them on CL

My brain is not very well balanced due to past substance abuse, but CL seems to "restore defaults" in terms of balancing the brain the way it should be in it's "virgin state" if you will, for lack of a better term. Thus, if your psychological faculties are more or less intact, you may not notice a significant effect. You have to be pretty sensitive and aware of your own body and brain to notice it regardless...otherwise you'll mostly see the difference without, once it's gone...

However, if you don't think there's an effect...try adding some substance to the mix...Weed gets me waaay higher, I don't even think I'm supposed to be that emotionally lifted, but yet that mentally sharp at once, the euphoria is ridiculous and I've been smoking almost every day for a decade! You get way less intoxicated from alcohol too, and can maintain a clear train of thought even when you're barely able to walk straight...the hangover is also significantly less...

Basically the effects other substances/supplements have are similar to when you're trying them for the first time - that's why I came up with the idea that it restores defaults in the brain.

Since this is not my first time using the substance, I'm more desensetized to it, but also get more side-effects - as is the case with taking anything over a long period of time. 

Agression is definitely increased, but very controllable, sleep problems are possible, and the antidepressant effect is deceivingly addicting psychologically. It is a very powerful substance, and to be honest, I'm not going to be taking it for quite some time now, if ever. You can also get stuck in hardcore, nasty "thought loops" amidst sleepless nights, and I have a feeling if you do this stuff too much, you may not be able to get out.

There is a pronounced neurotrophic effect which only becomes evident about a week or so after you seize use. I don't know how to explain it really, but I definitely feel like I'm developing faster, in terms of some concepts and other things I've wanted to apply to my life, but was struggling with.

The biggest drawback: This stuff allows you to drift through your life effortlessly, and it's almost like "hacking the matrix". Seriously, I've come to a conclusion that it is just "too good". 

You have to be careful with that stuff, and you gotta know EXACTLY what you want to get out of it and be very comfortable with yourself. It's deceivingly addictive due to its anti-depressant effects, and one injection easily lasts around 48 hours...basically - it fucks with your mind...big-time...

To be honest, I underestimated how powerful CL is before. It's been a great catalyst for changes I've already wanted to make in my life, but it is a very powerful substance and best used in extreme stress situations.

Again, I'm worried about people following my advice as far as choosing noots/supplements, because you have to realize that I'm not qualified and a lot of this could be a figment of my imagination - since my brain has been through a whole lot of everything and I might as well be a delusional psycho by now. 

But watch it with CL - it's deceptively powerful and can sneak up on you. I have weed which will always be my number one substance of choice, so I'm not too worried about problems with other things. But this stuff had me thinkin: "Boy how nice would it be to just always be on top your game like that?"

I got the best results out of it when I was using it in extreme-stress situations. It's probably the only good way to use it.

Edited by russianBEAR, 08 February 2010 - 08:25 PM.

[trevyn]

russianBEAR,

Are you afraid of potentially becoming addicted to CL? Other than the "nasty thought loops" and sleep issues, neither of which I experience, it sounds like the disadvantages you experience are mostly related to being afraid of becoming reliant on it. Is that correct?

[chilp]

.otherwise you'll mostly see the difference without, once it's gone...

that's what I'm interested about...RussianBear, would you say any of CL effects remain with you when being off of the product ?

[russianBEAR]

trevyn: 

CL doesn't "feel" the same way as any "conventional" drugs or supplements do, it's almost like a "cyberpunk-era" substance. I'm not so much concerned with getting addicted, because I have a lot of experience in that area and can usually tell the early signs of self-denial and distortions of reality when it comes to a certain substance.

However, what worries me is that there seems to be a "lifetime tolerance" to it...I used to get a "rush" when injecting it before, it's not there now...more side-effects too..

So the natural question is...if you do become reliant on it and then it stops working...what kind of shape are you going to be in, provided it will probably take quite some time for it to stop working completely...

That's why I want to "save" this substance for when I really need it. What if I go retarded one day and nothing works because I've built up such a tolerance to it when I didn't need it as much? CL is very much like "steroids for the brain" in terms of how deceptively good you feel about your cognition and everything else. Whether or not you "shrink back" remains to be seen.

If it's too good to be true...then there's probably a catch somewhere...I wouldn't want to find out what that is, although for now I have absolutely no long-term side effects after quite a few cycles in from 2006-7 (4 days on 4 days off for about 6-8 months of extremely high-stress work environment), a cycle or two this past summer, and one just recently in mid-January. All of those were 5 ml. Sometimes I'd do 10 a day in two injections 2-3 hours apart. 

chilp:

I'd say so. It's not the "mood-elevating" effects obviously, but I feel cognitively better than before I took it the last time out. I'm hyperactive and tend to "think too much". However lately it feels like I've got more of my thoughts and emotions under control and am more comfortable with them. 

The effect wasn't even evident right away, but recently I've definitely been thinking about improvements in cognition and what the cause of them is...and cerebrolysin sorta comes to mind.

It's hard to say how long they stay with you, since whatever your mindstate is, you get used to it and start taking it for granted eventually. So if the effect goes away slowly, it would be hard to gauge that.

[chrono]

I'm wondering about the synergy/interaction with other cognitive enhancers, nootropics and supplements.

Were any of you taking a stack when starting? Did you take anything while feeling the effects that either boosted or dampened the enhancement?

[matter_of_time]

I am in my second cycle.
I have not noticed any side effects at all, I was wondering which side effects can occur.

Sometimes I notice a rush, especially after doing some fitness right after I shot CL.

For me CL is almost to good to be true, it is a life altering drug. I changed my complete life in a really good direction, just within one month, normally this kind of progressions in life take much more time.

trevyn: 

CL doesn't "feel" the same way as any "conventional" drugs or supplements do, it's almost like a "cyberpunk-era" substance. I'm not so much concerned with getting addicted, because I have a lot of experience in that area and can usually tell the early signs of self-denial and distortions of reality when it comes to a certain substance.

However, what worries me is that there seems to be a "lifetime tolerance" to it...I used to get a "rush" when injecting it before, it's not there now...more side-effects too..

So the natural question is...if you do become reliant on it and then it stops working...what kind of shape are you going to be in, provided it will probably take quite some time for it to stop working completely...

That's why I want to "save" this substance for when I really need it. What if I go retarded one day and nothing works because I've built up such a tolerance to it when I didn't need it as much? CL is very much like "steroids for the brain" in terms of how deceptively good you feel about your cognition and everything else. Whether or not you "shrink back" remains to be seen.

If it's too good to be true...then there's probably a catch somewhere...I wouldn't want to find out what that is, although for now I have absolutely no long-term side effects after quite a few cycles in from 2006-7 (4 days on 4 days off for about 6-8 months of extremely high-stress work environment), a cycle or two this past summer, and one just recently in mid-January. All of those were 5 ml. Sometimes I'd do 10 a day in two injections 2-3 hours apart. 

chilp:

I'd say so. It's not the "mood-elevating" effects obviously, but I feel cognitively better than before I took it the last time out. I'm hyperactive and tend to "think too much". However lately it feels like I've got more of my thoughts and emotions under control and am more comfortable with them. 

The effect wasn't even evident right away, but recently I've definitely been thinking about improvements in cognition and what the cause of them is...and cerebrolysin sorta comes to mind.

It's hard to say how long they stay with you, since whatever your mindstate is, you get used to it and start taking it for granted eventually. So if the effect goes away slowly, it would be hard to gauge that.

[chrono]

I am in my second cycle.
I have not noticed any side effects at all, I was wondering which side effects can occur.

Sometimes I notice a rush, especially after doing some fitness right after I shot CL.

For me CL is almost to good to be true, it is a life altering drug. I changed my complete life in a really good direction, just within one month, normally this kind of progressions in life take much more time.

matter_of_time, how much CL do you take per day? It sounds like it's done you a lot of good, can you elaborate on how it's allowed you to change your life?

How much time did you take off between cycles? Can you comment on whether any of the improvements (especially with ADD) continued during this time, or if you felt a crash?

[edward]

I broke down and ordered some of this stuff the first week of Feb. and it should be here soon. I have tried almost every nootropic there is and nothing lived up to the hype a single substance. I honestly like the idea of a once a day or once every other day shot, beats the hell out of multiple oral dosings per day.

The fact that this stuff supposedly makes changes to the brain or at least grows new neurons and connections is much better than the simple tweaking of this neurotransmitter or that one which in the end is just a crap shoot in the dark and you might end up with a biochemical profile worse than you started with.

The idea of scrapping my whole nootropic regimine for something that works and eclipses everything else would be amazing.

Anyone have experience with stimulants (modafinil, adderall, vyvanse) combined with neurolysin?

edit: quick tip for neurolysin 10ml vials. get two 5 ml syringes ready. Break ampule draw up 5 ml in syringe a, recap being careful not to touch the needle to anything but the inside of the cap. Label this in put in fridge. Take your second 5ml syringe draw up 5 ml and then inject. Use your saved 5ml for the next day (if you are realy paranoid you can switch needle before giving the second injection. Unitil you get the correct filter needles that will let thorough all the proteins I personally wouldn't worry about a few IM injections from ampules with no filter needle (its done in hospitals all the time) just dont go IV

Edited by edward, 25 February 2010 - 10:20 AM.

[Solarclimax]

Well, if you guys are still interested in hearing all about Cerebrolysine and how it compares to other similar drugs...

I live in Russia so we have the widest possible variety of nootropics available mostly over the counter, and mostly without prescription (pharmacies are all about cash here). 

Basically I've done pretty much every "smart drug" you can name both as part of some kind of a "monthly cycle/course" alone, as well as in a variety of combinations.

As far as Cerebrolysine goes, yeah it's expensive as **** and it's also very effective. I've worked an incredibly stressful job where you have to work very very fast under enormous amounts of pressure, and one even small mistake can lead to you being fired or worse. Basically doing something that takes 10-15 minutes in 30 seconds was the absolute norm in the workplace at the time (24-hour television news, working in the directors gallery where the stuff airs from, what can I say it was crazy, glad I moved to a lower-stress department).

I was taking up to 10 ml of cerebrolysine daily at work though I/M injections, easily for a good 6 months if not more. (Usually in 2 injections, although I've shot 10ml straight up before in one large syringe) Since I worked in 4-day shifts, I'd usually go 4 days on and then 4 days off to cool off my neurons That easily allowed me to handle all the stresses, and I was one of the best at that particular job. Despite having abused illegal drugs in the past and being a frequent cannabis smoker, I experienced little to no "stoner burnout" and was able to concentrate and perform tasks faster than most of my colleagues at the same experience level. After a long 12-hour work day, after which a normal brain turns to mush, I was still fresh and eager to go out with friends/ see girls etc, while otherwise I'd be drained and only wanting to sleep.

So instead of rambling on further, let me just break down some effects and side-effects, short and long term:

-This stuff has a MARKED anti-depressant effect. You basically feel like back in the happiest moments of your childhood. Everyone has had one of those days when they're just "on fire" and "on top of the game". With Cerebrolysine, pretty much every day is like that - you're not overly happy or vegetated like off standard anti-depressants, but you're "on point" at whatever you do. Stuff like your subconscious and conscious fears all go right out of the window, and it has a bit of a socially-inhibiting effect too.

-If you thought weed gets you the munchies, wait till you try this stuff. When you first start on this cycle, you get hungry as a SAVAGE. I usually eat just enough to be full, not overly gorged, but this stuff had me tearing up huge meals and not even feeling incapacitated by everything I just ate. I'd attribute this to the fact that with all the additional peptides and stuff, your body needs more nutrition. Sort of like adding B-vitamins to stuff like Pyritinol or even good old 5-HTP.

-Cerebrolysine helps alleviate most, if not all symptoms of post-intoxication syndrome for illicit drugs. I once gave my friend a shot after his most recent cocaine binge and he turned from a pale shadow who was about to pass out back to his normal self - energetic, enthusiastic, and motivated. Plus his foul mood and edginess were completely gone. It also seems to ease the alcohol-related hangover better than some other substances (although many nootropics are much better for that IMO since they're GABA-active). My other friend also liked taking it as a "corrector agent" for other nootropics/supplements, claiming it helped alleviate certain unwanted effects of piracetam, while preventing one from overloading on one particular amino acid too much. I personally avoid ALL other substances when doing cerebrolysine. It simply overshadows them all for me.

-They definitely put some kind of a painkiller in there. Shooting cortexin (which is similar, but I like it alot less, as it "vegetates" and sedates me too much to where I'm more mentally capable, but simply don't care) without a novacaine solution is literally a huge pain in the rear, while shooting straight cerebrolysine into my tiny tricep with a huge needle made my whole arm go numb for a short time, like an anastetic would.

-I've measured my blood pressure several times before and after the injections, and there is a slight blood pressure elevation. If you inject too fast, the heart rate jumps and you may sweat profusely. However it gives you a nice sort of a "rush" to where you feel very relaxed, but not incapacitated or drugged by any stretch of imagination. The headaches are there, but are very slight, and usually start about 2-3 hours after the injection. 

-The long-term effects aren't so pleasant. There is an increasing feeling of "mounting personal hell" as I like to call it. Basically, all the negative traits of one's character seem to be unnaturally emphasized and underlined in your mind, while the positives seem little and insignificant. It doesn't really manifest itself in a severe form to others, but you may feel "grumpy" and "dissatisfied" even when you seem to be razor-sharp mentally. A good comparision would be some rich spoiled kid who has everything throwing tantrums and breaking stuff, just because he is rich and spoiled. Several of my friends reported very similar mental side effects. This is what initially led me to stop taking it by "tapering down" (I don't think it's a good method by the way, but since I was doin it daily for a while I decided for a slower descent). A .5 ml less every day for several days, then a week at 1ml and then 0.5 and then you're shooting colored water for placebo effects

- Some people report a HUGE boost in their sexual activity. I noticed only a slight boost  

- When you're off the cerebrolysine, you feel like it's a bad day for no reason (see above having a top of your game day for no reason lol). I didn't notice any significant negative long-term effects on my cognitive processes. On the contrary I seem to be able to concentrate better at any time, without taking any substances, or even after smoking a lot of weed. I'm now able to "zone in" on something more completely and do better at focusing.

-This stuff has very strong and powerful overall effects, it is the most effective out of injectable nootropics/smart drugs that I've tried. Cortexin doesn't even come close, and various Cerebrolysine derivatives (we ahve a Cerebrolysate here) are nothin more than cheap imitations. 

I've decided for another mini-cycle just now, about 3 years after that last lengthy episode. I'm sticking to what the doctors here recommend: 5ml every OTHER day. Seems to be the correct dosage and schedule. 

I hope it doesn't sound too much like promo for the Austrian pharmaceuticals company which makes this stuff. It's really not somethin you want to mess around with if you don't know what you're doing.

Couldn't understand the bit in red, I'm on my 3rd day of 10mg a day for 10 days of Cortexin, and the effects are so much more apparent compared to Cerebrolysin, that i was shocked by your statement. (highlighted in blue) Out of all these (quoted from the "Nootropic" page, on Wiki) "cognition, memory, intelligence, motivation, attention, and concentration". I would say so far that I'm roughly 90% certain that Cortexin has improved me in all of these areas apart from maybe motivation. The best thing i could say about Cerebrolysin after nearly 2 weeks of mostly 10ml doses a day, is that it may of had a positive effect on my behaviour, IE: i didn't get mad/stressed out as easy, but it was hard to say clearly if this was definitely the case.
And also it may of had a slight positive effect on short term memory, but trying to think back if this was actually the case it's 50/50. (apparently it didn't have any positive effect on long term memory)

On Cortexin i have had a couple of moments just thinking about trivial things and ending up putting a little thought into whatever it was i was thinking of and actually giggling when coming to what seemed to be a complex and logical conclusion, in comparison to any conclusion i think i may have drawn had i not taken the stuff. I couldn't decide if this shop window some way down the street had new net curtains that had been badly cut and fitted to cover the top quarter of the window (trust me that would not be so weird where i live) or if it was just condensation, i soon realised that condensation would not form very uniform patterns, whereas a curtain would have some form of repetition and accuracy in it's pattern(s) (generally speaking), but then i thought why wouldn't they just clean the full window if indeed it was just condensation, the top bit of the window doesn't look like it's out of their reach. Also there was a clean square patch near the door. I then realised that in between the kitchen and the window in question, their is a 4 to 5 foot high counter and that somehow the flow of air must be getting directed at the top of the window helped along by the 4 to 5 foot high counter, which is the reason only the top 1/4 of the window appears to be steamed up (not curtained up). I also realised that the nice square patch next to the door is probably due to the door being opened by customers, which seems to suggest that, this coupled with the fact that it wouldn't be very sane to cut slightly wonky, short curtains that, this must surely mean that it is actually just condensation. Now this may seem obvious to others but it's not normally something i would of realised.

[Solarclimax]

I'm wondering about the synergy/interaction with other cognitive enhancers, nootropics and supplements.

Were any of you taking a stack when starting? Did you take anything while feeling the effects that either boosted or dampened the enhancement?

I was taking a biggish stack of noots when starting Cortexin, ---> CDP Choline, Piracetam, Aniracetam, Sulbutiamine, Pacmilion, Phosphyl.., Lions Mane, Bacopa, Ashwagandha. That's most of em off top of my head, plus a couple other b -vits, multi vits, fish oil. I took my first shot of Cortexin a few hours after taking my daily concoction of oral noots, which i had been on for around a week and a half. And all i can say is i felt a bit overloaded, don't really know how to elaborate on that, hmmm, i will try, i will start by saying the stack of orals, i think where starting to have positive and also mixed effects, IE, i felt different things on different days and at different times of the day. i won't go into that to much or i'll be here all night. Anyway the first day of starting Cortexin i would say nothing changed in terms of how i was feeling, IE mixed feelings. Apart fromt the normal, subtle clarity, that i think i may have been getting from the oral stack, plus as i said above the feeling of being overloaded, like maybe i had brain fog and also the normal clarity at the same time, made me think it was prob best to stop the orals for the time being. if that makes any sense. Anyway second day of Cortexin i didn't have anything in terms of other supplements apart from a bit of flax with my morning glass of milk and also roughly 4 grams fish oil. It was on this second day that i started to say to myself, this stuff feels like it's having an effect. Not like i can feel liquid in my brain type effect or i feel stimulated type effect, put it this way if i had of been spiked with it i would never of known i had taken/been given anything, i would of just thought that i suddenly gained a little clarity of thought (more so than with the orals).

So to hopefully answer your question, i personally think it's best, for me at least, to leave the oral stack until i have finished the Cortexin.

Edited by Solarclimax, 27 February 2010 - 01:12 AM.

[russianBEAR]

Solar: I'm all about each individual picking the substances that work best for him/her. Cortexin just wasn't it for me. Substances that do something with GABA and/or benzo receptors are hit or miss for me.... 

Hate Mexidol, love Picamilon...etc... taking Cortexin I hardly even gave a damn about anything, I could definitely feel enhanced focus at work etc, but I literally didn't give a shit about anything at all, which would have been counter-productive in the long run. It was like benzos without the sedative-hypnotic and memory loss part of the effect in that sense.

Also it hurts to inject it without an additional solution, like novacaine....




matter_of_timeL: Are you concerned about such drastic and sudden changes when normally that process is gradual and requires the pain of hard work etc. ? Do you think it might come "crashing down" once you stop ? That's my biggest concern, the whole too good to be true part...

Edited by russianBEAR, 01 March 2010 - 03:14 AM.

[Solarclimax]

russianBEAR: I could of worded my post better, looks like it could come across as a bit rude. I was jittery after taking some workout booster supplement that i got free with my protein and it put me on edge the day i wrote those post's, got it free with protein so i thought why not. Won't be taking that crap again was like being on cocaine (thinking back to years ago) only a lot worse. Anyway, as you say different things work for different people. For me stuff seems to click a little better, like i can look at a couple things that before would require some hard thought but now can be comprehended a little easier, don't get me wrong it's not anything super special, just subtle things but it definitely works for me. It does hurt a little when injecting, i was using water for I.V at first, it was a little discomforting, and i felt like i had a dead leg afterwards, i don't think they add alcohol to that stuff ? but then i got some normal Bacteriostatic water, and it was pretty much painless, but my leg was still a little numb afterwards.

[Solarclimax]

I wonder how many of these said effects of Cere.. and other noots are due to factors not taken into account. Some of the analysis's seem to be a bit hit and miss, and nothing much that's clear and concise.
Some of the things i have heard from people who smoke/drink/take party drugs, could be seen as a self analysis that suggests these people think they are experiencing very positive benefits in terms of things like health and or increased mental/physical ability ect, whereas scientific analysis would suggest that mostly, only negative effects can come out of such drugs.