2208 replies to this topic

[Solarclimax]

Maybe some people could give a better example of how/why they think Cere and or other noots have had any positive effect. Did you suddenly solve a puzzle that was to hard for you to do before ? where you suddenly able to handle a stressful situation better ? could you remember that extra couple of things on the list ? can you get more done/are you more methodical than before ? can you lick your elbow ?

[russianBEAR]

I wonder how many of these said effects of Cere.. and other noots are due to factors not taken into account. Some of the analysis's seem to be a bit hit and miss, and nothing much that's clear and concise.
Some of the things i have heard from people who smoke/drink/take party drugs, could be seen as a self analysis that suggests these people think they are experiencing very positive benefits in terms of things like health and or increased mental/physical ability ect, whereas scientific analysis would suggest that mostly, only negative effects can come out of such drugs.

Like I said I have no long-term side effects at all from cere or any noots, but who knows how that'll all end up. I've been taking them for about 6 years on and off, starting with Ginkgo back in the day...liters of cere back in 2006-7 then only a few times since then.


However, never once did I think that these substances are somehow good for you. They all have side-effects just like recreational drugs and unless you know exactly what you're doing you have a good chance to end up pretty burned out and in need of a ton of rest. 

How cere helped: 

I was working in a television studio where it's do or die under ridiculous circumstances, when stuff is happening live...I had tons of responsibility, about 30 seconds on average to complete a task taking 2-3 minutes of normal pace, and literally ZERO room for error, as it would mess up the rest of the "team". The shifts were 12 hours, 4 of those would be spent on air in said environment, while I had other responsibilities elsewhere.

Now, to use a sports-related term, I was straight up CLUTCH under all the said circumstances. I'd have to report upstairs to the studio at 12:00 AM sharp and would have a list of assignments before that.

I would routinely finish the assignment and report at 11:59:52 or so feeling relaxed and super confident that I'd make it the whole time. I'd even have time to make a few jokes with the sound engineer before going on about my business.

When the going got tough, I was a straight up MACHINE too, just working away...then I still had enough in me to go sex some girl, or get drunk and high with my friends (usually both)...I got tons of praise from very experienced colleagues too, so I know it wasn't just my illusion.


Nowadays I work in a much less stressful department and still excel at my job without any "help".

That's why I'm vary of revving up your brain to these extremes - that stuff really only asserts itself in extreme stress situations and I don't see why you'd want to take it in situations other than that.

[bobman]

Is this stuff safe? I've read some speculative posts in this thread with regards to exposing your immune system to brain fractions. If you had a stroke or some brain contusion, could short-term ingestion of Cerbrolysin negatively impact that? Could Cerebrolysin negatively affect people with auto-immune disorders (which can crop up at any time). I'm super interested in this stuff, but it seems dangerous.

Edited by bobmann, 01 March 2010 - 05:49 PM.

[rautavaara]

Is this stuff safe? I've read some speculative posts in this thread with regards to exposing your immune system to brain fractions. If you had a stroke or some brain contusion, could short-term ingestion of Cerbrolysin negatively impact that? Could Cerebrolysin negatively affect people with auto-immune disorders (which can crop up at any time). I'm super interested in this stuff, but it seems dangerous.

It seems to have passed clinical trials and is marketed by an Austrian company, so it is probably not completly unsafe. However, the self-experimentation here is far from reasonable. Cerebrolysin is trypsinized pig brain extract. Nobody knows what is acutally in there, and even less is known about what it is actually doing. The concerns about triggering autoimmune reactions or prion diseases are certainly not unwarranted (such side-effects might not become apparant right away and might not be detected in clinical trials). The assumption that they will probably check for the presence of infectious prions is optimistic, given that there is no hard data and the potential adverse effects could be very severe.

Also, it seems like some people here are using Cerebrolysin aquired through questionable sources, which is bordering on sheer idiocy, in my opinion. Does daily injection of mysterious pig brain extract you aquired through a shady online pharmacy in Russia sound like a good idea? Common sense, anyone?

Edited by rautavaara, 01 March 2010 - 08:03 PM.

[Solarclimax]

Is this stuff safe? I've read some speculative posts in this thread with regards to exposing your immune system to brain fractions. If you had a stroke or some brain contusion, could short-term ingestion of Cerbrolysin negatively impact that? Could Cerebrolysin negatively affect people with auto-immune disorders (which can crop up at any time). I'm super interested in this stuff, but it seems dangerous.

It seems to have passed clinical trials and is marketed by an Austrian company, so it is probably not completly unsafe. However, the self-experimentation here is far from reasonable. Cerebrolysin is trypsinized pig brain extract. Nobody knows what is acutally in there, and even less is known about what it is actually doing. The concerns about triggering autoimmune reactions or prion diseases are certainly not unwarranted (such side-effects might not become apparant right away and might not be detected in clinical trials). The assumption that they will probably check for the presence of infectious prions is optimistic, given that there is no hard data and the potential adverse effects could be very severe.

Also, it seems like some people here are using Cerebrolysin aquired through questionable sources, which is bordering on sheer idiocy, in my opinion. Does daily injection of mysterious pig brain extract you aquired through a shady online pharmacy in Russia sound like a good idea? Common sense, anyone?

You seem to raise some valid points, do you have any links to any sources of info for which you base your claims on ?
Cerebrolysin has undergone 80 trials that have been completed on more than 5000 patients with Alzheimer’s.
I don't know who has been buying from shady Russian pharmacies, i personally baught from a more than likely good source, and whilst i have admitted that i'm still taking a risk, i did do a bunch of reasearch and weighed up the odds and figured i would give it a go. Not heard anything bad about this stuff, seen lots and lots of studies from reputable sources that do nothing but say good things about Cere. As for The cortexin i got. That came from what could be classed as a shady foreign pharmacy, but the stuff i got, i'm pretty sure was genuine. Had the holograms on and all. Plus i doubt there's big money in faking this stuff. What would you fake it with ? even the fake stuff from Russia was the real thing just with the wrong packaging. I baught my Cere from the same source as a bunch of other people who had nothing but good things to say about it. And the Cortexin would just be to much hassle for someone to fake. Plus that stuff undoubtedly works.

I'm thankfull that people like you can post such things, it's always good to get objective opinions. Like you say there is a risk, i admit that.

Edited by Solarclimax, 01 March 2010 - 09:47 PM.

[russianBEAR]

Well Cere is definitely one of those substances that you gotta turn up your senselss macho bravado for. 

Me talking to my grandma before giving her a cere injection yesterday: "They say the stuff may be risky now...who knows what's in there really"

Her: "I ain't scared boy!"

You can't be scared if you're experimenting with substances...maybe it's just a lack of self-preservation instinct which I'm notorious for.

[Neuronic]

russianBear:
I appreciate your posts on here, it seems to me that despite substance abuse you are still pretty sharp mentally.
I am curious if you were born that way or if it's related to the nootropics you've been taking?
I am really tempted to try out CL (CL=cerebrolysin?), despite HATING needles the possible benefits would be worth it (assuming I manned up) if I knew they would last.
I can't help but wonder if CL did grow you new brain cells, you killed them off with alcohol and weed.

Everyone mentions how it helps verbally, emotionally and multitasking ability but I am curious the most about it's effect on memory - which is my biggest problem by far, I can figure stuff out but I can never remember it like others.
Did you feel that you could remember stuff better when you were taking CL? -words come to mind, could recite numbers...
Thanks.

[russianBEAR]

Well I don't know if I was born mentally sharp, I like to think so I just think that particular mechanism isn't as blatant as: "This kills brain cells, that recovers them" unless you're sniffing volatile solvents. It's probably not as straightforward as that, some studies have shown that weed actually helps grow new brain cells...

I mostly look at improvements in short-term memory (since I do smoke a lot of dope, it's totally shot) and they're there, but I wouldn't say Cerebrolysin is the best substance to take for just one specific area like that, it's more of a holistic brain balancer or something  

So taking it would probably help, but I'd say conventional noots give me more of a direct boost for remembering and recalling information quickly.

[Neuronic]

Well I don't know if I was born mentally sharp, I like to think so I just think that particular mechanism isn't as blatant as: "This kills brain cells, that recovers them" unless you're sniffing volatile solvents. It's probably not as straightforward as that, some studies have shown that weed actually helps grow new brain cells...

I mostly look at improvements in short-term memory (since I do smoke a lot of dope, it's totally shot) and they're there, but I wouldn't say Cerebrolysin is the best substance to take for just one specific area like that, it's more of a holistic brain balancer or something  

So taking it would probably help, but I'd say conventional noots give me more of a direct boost for remembering and recalling information quickly.

I have read about others saying that weed makes them more creative and stuff. Perhaps it's the other drugs that they say fry your brain.
I would def try cere if it didn't require being injected though, so I may try some other noots out first.
Which do you find help most in short-term memory?

[Animal]

I seriously doubt there is currently any substance on the planet that can sustainably increase the general intelligence factor of an individual, although certainly specific factors can be improved, even if it is typically transitory. So I'm assuming russianBEAR was born with approximately the same intellectual potential as he currently displays.

[Neuronic]

I seriously doubt there is currently any substance on the planet that can sustainably increase the general intelligence factor of an individual, although certainly specific factors can be improved, even if it is typically transitory. So I'm assuming russianBEAR was born with approximately the same intellectual potential as he currently displays.

I doubt there is a super drug that will make you a genius too, and I think that brain exercise like taking classes will do you wonders. But there are some area's where I can't seem to get an improvement after all the years of trying. Such as the "tip of the tongue syndrome", I could get an A on a test but sound like a complete idiot cause I can't think of the words I'm trying to say when talking to someone. I've always been like that and maybe cere or other noots might not help but who knows it might.

[russianBEAR]

Being in situations of increased stress helps the most with short-term memory. As soon as I have to take in a lot of information to get things done very fast under time constraints, I start remembering everything just fine.

Other than that, Picamilon works well too. It's the only noot/supplement I take nowadays - occasionally. I mean I found what works for me personally, so I just stick with that nowadays. If it's not perfect for a particular aspect of "enhancement", but good enough and proven and tested - I'd take that over trying to add more pills of switch for something that may not be a good fit otherwise.

[chrono]

Have any of you tried using ALCAR with cerebrolysin? It seems to me it might have a synergistic mental effect (in terms of being more "on point," as russianbear aptly put it).

More interestingly, ALCAR appears to increase the brain's production and utilization of NGF. This might multiply the effect cerebrolysin has on longer-term changes to the brain (cell protection/genesis), though that's only a theory on my part. Here's a couple of excerpts from abstracts pertaining to ALCAR/NGF:

Acetyl-L-carnitine treatment increases nerve growth factor levels and choline acetyltransferase activity in the central nervous system of aged rats.

The hypothesis that some neurodegenerative events associated with ageing of the central nervous system (CNS) may be due to a lack of neurotrophic support to neurons is suggestive of a possible reparative pharmacological strategy intended to enhance the activity of endogenous neurotrophic agents. Here we report that treatment with acetyl-l-carnitine (ALCAR), a substance which has been shown to prevent some impairments of the aged CNS in experimental animals as well as in patients, is able to increase the levels and utilization of nerve growth factor (NGF) in the CNS of old rats. The stimulation of NGF levels in the CNS can be attained when ALCAR is given either for long or short periods to senescent animals of various ages, thus indicating a direct effect of the substance on the NGF system which is independent of the actual degenerative stage of the neurons.

Acetyl-L-carnitine enhances the response of PC12 cells to nerve growth factor.

We have demonstrated that treatment of rat pheochromocytoma (PC12) cells with acetyl-L-carnitine (ALCAR) stimulates the synthesis of nerve growth factor receptors (NGFR). ALCAR has also been reported to prevent some age-related impairments of the central nervous system (CNS). In particular, ALCAR reduces the loss of NGFR in the hippocampus and basal forebrain of aged rodents. On these bases, a study on the effect of NGF on the PC12 cells was carried out to ascertain whether ALCAR induction of NGFR resulted in an enhancement of NGF action. Treatment of PC12 cells for 6 days with ALCAR (10 mM) stimulated [125I]NGF PC12 cell uptake, consistent with increased NGFR levels. Also, neurite outgrowth elicited in PC12 cells by NGF (100 ng/ml) was greatly augmented by ALCAR pretreatment. When PC12 cells were treated with 10 mM ALCAR and then exposed to NGF (1 ng/ml), an NGF concentration that is insufficient to elicit neurite outgrowth under these conditions, there was an ALCAR effect on neurite outgrowth. The concentration of NGF necessary for survival of serum-deprived PC12 cells was 100-fold lower for ALCAR-treated cells as compared to controls. The minimal effective dose of ALCAR here was between 0.1 and 0.5 mM. This is similar to the reported minimal concentration of ALCAR that stimulates the synthesis of NGFR in these cells. The data here presented indicate that one mechanism by which ALCAR rescues aged neurons may be by increasing their responsiveness to neuronotrophic factors in the CNS.

Would be interested in what you think of this, as well as anyone's subjective experiences with this combination.

[russianBEAR]

Never tried that ALCAR even separately, but everything has a "synergistic" effect with cerebrolysin - which is exactly why nothing else is necessary if you will. 

You really don't need much of anything else when you're taking it IMO, but the instruction manual specifically mostly mentions that the effects of antidepressants are increased greatly so you really have to watch that. If you have epileptic status, you gotta be careful as well...

Basically the Cerebrolysin overshadows most other things I've tried with it, and the instruction advises not to take any "chains of amino acids or peptides" with this at all. Dunno about single derivatives, you could just be wasting your time and substances or it could be revolutionary

[chrono]

I was thinking that ALCAR has the possibility of increasing the mechanism (or one of the mechanisms) by which cerebrolysin exerts its effect. The subjective effect of ALCAR strikes me as highly synergistic, but the pharmacological mechanism seems like it might plausibly multiply cerebrolysin's effects, rather than just being overshadowed like other drugs. OTOH, too much NGF might be a bad thing?

ALCAR is interesting, you may find it worth trying. A very subtle physical and mental energy booster, very transparent compared to stimulants. But still quite noticeable (I found). Not in the same ballpark as amphetamines or perhaps even caffeine, but ALCAR also has anti-aging effects, along with neuroprotective/regenerative properties not unlike cerebrolysin's.

You really don't need much of anything else when you're taking it IMO, but the instruction manual specifically mostly mentions that the effects of antidepressants are increased greatly so you really have to watch that.

...and the instruction advises not to take any "chains of amino acids or peptides" with this at all. Dunno about single derivatives, you could just be wasting your time and substances or it could be revolutionary

This is very interesting. I wonder what the effects of taking it with other peptide drugs would be? Don't tell me you Russian psychonauts haven't tried that out before I suppose it could be dangerous, though, as CL is so potent.

Though ALCAR is endogenous, so I would be surprised if there were adverse consequences with this single amino acid. Might be worth trying in low dosage if someone is familiar with the effect of both drugs separately.

How strongly-worded is the warning about drug/peptide combinations...do they say flat-out not to do it, or just to be aware of the effect on strength?

Edited by chrono, 31 March 2010 - 11:05 PM.

[bobman]

This might be interesting: http://www.physorg.c...s194605410.html

I'm still thinking of ordering some, but a little worried about weird immune reactions...

[chrono]

This might be interesting: http://www.physorg.c...s194605410.html

I'm still thinking of ordering some, but a little worried about weird immune reactions...

Thanks for that link about thymosin beta-4. It seems to have some potent neuroprotective properties, but unfortunately there's nothing in pubmed about cognition or memory beyond

one paper about healing brain injury. Though according to that current work, it might have more potential for nerve generation.

I share your concern about possible adverse immune response; I assume you're thinking along the lines of anaphylactic shock, like occurred once with actovegin. I haven't seen any mention of this in connection with cerebrolysin, and it's been used fairly extensively in actual medicine.

Can anyone say if this is a realistic danger with this drug? What steps can be taken to ameliorate the risk...perhaps taking a very small amount, and making sure you're close to emergency care?


In related news, a paper came out this week demonstrating safety and efficacy in moderately severe AD.

Efficacy and safety of Cerebrolysin in moderate to moderately severe Alzheimer's disease: results of a randomized, double-blind, controlled trial investigating three dosages of Cerebrolysin.
Alvarez XA, Cacabelos R, Sampedro C, Aleixandre M, Linares C, Granizo E, Doppler E, Moessler H.
EuroEspes Biomedical Research Centre, Santa Maria de Babio, 15166 Bergondo, La Coruna, Spain.

Background: Cerebrolysin is a neuropeptide preparation mimicking the effects of neurotrophic factors. This subgroup analysis assessed safety and efficacy of Cerebrolysin in patients with moderate to moderately severe Alzheimer's disease (AD) (ITT data set: N = 133; MMSE: 14-20) included in a dose-finding study (ITT data set: N = 251; MMSE: 14-25). Results of the mild AD subgroup (ITT data set: N = 118; MMSE: 21-25) are also presented. Methods: Patients with AD received 100 ml IV infusions of Cerebrolysin (10, 30 or 60 ml diluted in saline; N = 32, 34 and 35, respectively) or placebo (saline; N = 32) over twelve weeks (5 days per week for 4 weeks and 2 days per week for another 8 weeks). Primary efficacy criteria ADAS-cog+ (Alzheimer's Disease Assessment Scale Cognitive Subpart Modified) and CIBIC+ (Clinical Interview-based Impression of Change with Caregiver Input) were assessed 24 weeks after baseline. Results: At week 24, Cerebrolysin improved the global clinical function significantly with all three dosages and induced significant improvements in cognition, initiation of activities of daily living (ADL) and neuropsychiatric symptoms at 10-, 30- and 60-ml doses, respectively. Treatment effects on total ADL and other secondary parameters (MMSE, Trail-making test) were not significant. Cerebrolysin was safe and well tolerated. Conclusions: These results demonstrate the efficacy of Cerebrolysin in moderate to moderately severe AD, showing dose-specific effects similar to those reported for patients with mild to moderate AD. The benefits of Cerebrolysin in advanced AD need to be confirmed in larger trials.

PMID: 20500802 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

Edited by chrono, 05 August 2010 - 03:28 AM.
fixed tags broken after software upgrade

[bobman]

This might be interesting: http://www.physorg.c...s194605410.html

I'm still thinking of ordering some, but a little worried about weird immune reactions...

Thanks for that link about thymosin beta-4. It seems to have some potent neuroprotective properties, but unfortunately there's nothing in pubmed about cognition or memory beyond one paper about healing brain injury. Though according to that current work, it might have more potential for nerve generation.

I share your concern about possible adverse immune response; I assume you're thinking along the lines of anaphylactic shock, like occurred once with actovegin. I haven't seen any mention of this in connection with cerebrolysin, and it's been used fairly extensively in actual medicine.

Can anyone say if this is a realistic danger with this drug? What steps can be taken to ameliorate the risk...perhaps taking a very small amount, and making sure you're close to emergency care?


In related news, a paper came out this week demonstrating safety and efficacy in moderately severe AD.

Efficacy and safety of Cerebrolysin in moderate to moderately severe Alzheimer's disease: results of a randomized, double-blind, controlled trial investigating three dosages of Cerebrolysin.
Alvarez XA, Cacabelos R, Sampedro C, Aleixandre M, Linares C, Granizo E, Doppler E, Moessler H.
EuroEspes Biomedical Research Centre, Santa Maria de Babio, 15166 Bergondo, La Coruna, Spain.

Background: Cerebrolysin is a neuropeptide preparation mimicking the effects of neurotrophic factors. This subgroup analysis assessed safety and efficacy of Cerebrolysin in patients with moderate to moderately severe Alzheimer's disease (AD) (ITT data set: N = 133; MMSE: 14-20) included in a dose-finding study (ITT data set: N = 251; MMSE: 14-25). Results of the mild AD subgroup (ITT data set: N = 118; MMSE: 21-25) are also presented. Methods: Patients with AD received 100 ml IV infusions of Cerebrolysin (10, 30 or 60 ml diluted in saline; N = 32, 34 and 35, respectively) or placebo (saline; N = 32) over twelve weeks (5 days per week for 4 weeks and 2 days per week for another 8 weeks). Primary efficacy criteria ADAS-cog+ (Alzheimer's Disease Assessment Scale Cognitive Subpart Modified) and CIBIC+ (Clinical Interview-based Impression of Change with Caregiver Input) were assessed 24 weeks after baseline. Results: At week 24, Cerebrolysin improved the global clinical function significantly with all three dosages and induced significant improvements in cognition, initiation of activities of daily living (ADL) and neuropsychiatric symptoms at 10-, 30- and 60-ml doses, respectively. Treatment effects on total ADL and other secondary parameters (MMSE, Trail-making test) were not significant. Cerebrolysin was safe and well tolerated. Conclusions: These results demonstrate the efficacy of Cerebrolysin in moderate to moderately severe AD, showing dose-specific effects similar to those reported for patients with mild to moderate AD. The benefits of Cerebrolysin in advanced AD need to be confirmed in larger trials.

PMID: 20500802 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

I'm actually thinking more along the lines of antibodies to neuropeptides as well as prion infection. I know that there are overt symptoms of prion infection (scary ass stuff), which has cropped up in some meat packaging workers who inhaled pig brain vapor, but the whole field of prion related illnesses is poorly understood. I've read only 1 person's report of long term use (I believe he has used it for ~20 years) on a different forum, and it was very effective for him with no side effects. He had contracted a bacterial encephalopathy, and was prescribed Cerebrolysine for the recovery. We are from Ukraine, and when my grandmother had a stroke in 1990, he doctors had given her Cererbrolysine injections, so it seems fairly common there. It is just a very sketchy thing for me; the idea of injection grounded up pig brain does not sound particularly safe. Also, maybe my moral set prevents me from taking it. It is both my pride (that I can reach my peak potential through more wholesome means) and my sense that this process fails some universal principles.

Edited by bobmann, 03 June 2010 - 02:35 AM.

[chrono]

I'm actually thinking more along the lines of antibodies to neuropeptides as well as prion infection. I know that there are overt symptoms of prion infection (scary ass stuff), which has cropped up in some meat packaging workers who inhaled pig brain vapor, but the whole field of prion related illnesses is poorly understood. I've read only 1 person's report of long term use (I believe he has used it for ~20 years) on a different forum, and it was very effective for him with no side effects. He had contracted a bacterial encephalopathy, and was prescribed Cerebrolysine for the recovery.

This psuedo-press release says that prions are ruled out by purification during the production process. J Neurol Neurochir Psychiatr 2006; 7(3): 12–20 says "The compound, Cerebrolysin, is an aqueous protein solution manufactured by a standardised enzymatic process in a stable composition. Contamination, especially by prions, is impossible." I know I saw this mentioned in another paper as well, but I couldn't find it today.

This certainly isn't conclusive. I don't know enough about prion science to say how easily they are destroyed or excluded, but the patent literature details some pretty advanced purification procedures (CL is a very long way from whole material). Combined with its decades-long safety record, and continued use in most of the world, I have a hard time believing prions are much of a concern.

Could you post the link to that other report?

Edited by chrono, 04 June 2010 - 04:22 AM.

[bobman]

I'm actually thinking more along the lines of antibodies to neuropeptides as well as prion infection. I know that there are overt symptoms of prion infection (scary ass stuff), which has cropped up in some meat packaging workers who inhaled pig brain vapor, but the whole field of prion related illnesses is poorly understood. I've read only 1 person's report of long term use (I believe he has used it for ~20 years) on a different forum, and it was very effective for him with no side effects. He had contracted a bacterial encephalopathy, and was prescribed Cerebrolysine for the recovery.

This psuedo-press release says that prions are ruled out by purification during the production process. J Neurol Neurochir Psychiatr 2006; 7(3): 12–20 says "The compound, Cerebrolysin, is an aqueous protein solution manufactured by a standardised enzymatic process in a stable composition. Contamination, especially by prions, is impossible." I know I saw this mentioned in another paper as well, but I couldn't find it today.

This certainly isn't conclusive. I don't know enough about prion science to say how easily they are destroyed or excluded, but the patent literature details some pretty advanced purification procedures (CL is a very long way from whole material). Combined with its decades-long safety record, and continued use in most of the world, I have a hard time believing prions are much of a concern.

Could you post the link to that other report?

It was just this piece: http://www.azcentral...ess1207-ON.html

Yeah, I would like to think it is perfectly safe. Maybe I'm just not ready to make that jump. Worth noting is the language they used; because nothing is perfectly safe, and I imagine that it is especially the case with poorly understood diseases caused by prion infection. Could of course be a total non-issue here, I'm certainly no expert. I guess I just don't want to take this stuff unless I see some really compelling permanent (say at least 1 year after washout the effects last) effects. If it is just another marginally beneficial therapy, I would rather put my recovery efforts behind the creation of a holistic therapy, a lifestyle close to the earth. I see animal product injections pretty incompatible with that unless the benefit is really just that good. It's hard to judge apriori how important this substance is to me, so I need to see more reviews. I've seen allusions made to steroids, an analogy I understand, and that's not something I'm interested in.

Edited by bobmann, 04 June 2010 - 07:19 AM.

[chrono]

Whoops, forgot the link to the weird press release, not that it's that useful. I too would like more assurances about this issue...something like "risk of prion contamination is negligible because X purification step destroys/excludes them."

I think the comparison to steroids is easy to make because of the route of administration. Would anyone say that if this was in pill form? OTOH, a comparison to steroids is one of the only analogies available for human enhancement, so for particularly effective CEs it's probably somewhat inevitable. But we're obviously talking about your personal comfort here, that's just my take on it.

Can you post a link to the fellow who was taking CL for 20 years? I'm interested to hear such a long-term perspective.

[bobman]

http://alzheimers.in...61/m/2171094222

Look for cerebro's posts.

[arvcondor]

I'm giving this topic a bump. I just ordered 20 ampules of 10 ml from the international pharmacy recommended by the company (which, by the way, is not Ebewe - it's a spinoff called EVER Neuro Pharma, seen here: http://www.everpharm...m/en/index.html). My one concern is that I'm also on Effexor, and Cere supposedly enhances the effects of antidepressants, so I may try to half my dosage before I start poking myself.

Anyway, I'm as curious as everyone else to hear about the ongoing experiences of those who have started it within the past few weeks/months.

[chrono]

Who did Ebewe/EVER recommend you buy it from? I'm quite surprised they would answer such a question.

[arvcondor]

Who did Ebewe/EVER recommend you buy it from? I'm quite surprised they would answer such a question.

I was surprised, too. They told me to talk to the "International Pharmacy," which is located in Wien, Austria. The site is here: http://www.internati...glish/index.htm


Yeah, pretty poor site. But there is an email address, and they'll get back to you with pricing, etc. They do, however, require a prescription.

[betsyg]

Who did Ebewe/EVER recommend you buy it from? I'm quite surprised they would answer such a question.

EWEBE is no longer a distributor of Cerebrolysin, at least in Mexico. EverPharm is the new distributor here in Mexico, and from what the rep told me, the only distributor in Mexico. He also told me that the drug was only available to doctors. i guess he was wrong about that.

Intra-muscular injections are not as effective as IV administration (in 250 ml hartman solution) but at least you are buying the real thing.

[betsyg]

Who did Ebewe/EVER recommend you buy it from? I'm quite surprised they would answer such a question.

EWEBE is no longer a distributor of Cerebrolysin, at least in Mexico. EverPharm is the new distributor here in Mexico, and from what the rep told me, the only distributor in Mexico. He also told me that the drug was only available to doctors. i guess he was wrong about that.

Intra-muscular injections are not as effective as IV administration (in 250 ml hartman solution) but at least you are buying the real thing.

[arvcondor]

Who did Ebewe/EVER recommend you buy it from? I'm quite surprised they would answer such a question.

EWEBE is no longer a distributor of Cerebrolysin, at least in Mexico. EverPharm is the new distributor here in Mexico, and from what the rep told me, the only distributor in Mexico. He also told me that the drug was only available to doctors. i guess he was wrong about that.

Intra-muscular injections are not as effective as IV administration (in 250 ml hartman solution) but at least you are buying the real thing.

I'm wondering if it's worth it for me to try IV injections? I've got a belt and a good abandoned property to use.

Edited by arvcondor, 28 June 2010 - 05:39 AM.

[bobman]

Who did Ebewe/EVER recommend you buy it from? I'm quite surprised they would answer such a question.

EWEBE is no longer a distributor of Cerebrolysin, at least in Mexico. EverPharm is the new distributor here in Mexico, and from what the rep told me, the only distributor in Mexico. He also told me that the drug was only available to doctors. i guess he was wrong about that.

Intra-muscular injections are not as effective as IV administration (in 250 ml hartman solution) but at least you are buying the real thing.

I'm wondering if it's worth it for me to try IV injections? I've got a belt and a good abandoned property to use.

You're kidding right? If not, why do you need an abandoned property and a belt? Jared Leto too much Requiem for a Dream

[chrono]

Nice to see you again, Betsy! I've been thinking about your previous posts, and had a few questions for you:

1. Why do you use a hartman infusion of 250mL for only a 5mL dose of CBR?

2. Do you ever vary the dosage based on severity of symptoms, and have you noticed any additional benefits or other effects at different dosages?

2. Do you always follow the 5x/week for 4 weeks dosing schedule, regardless of severity? I'm wondering why Ebewe recommended this in their original literature; in my review of CBR papers, I've yet to find any reasoning for this. I'm wondering if it's to prevent downregulation of neurotrophic or other mechanisms, or perhaps prevent side effects. Do you have any thoughts about this?

Thanks again for your insight, and contribution to this discussion.

Edited by chrono, 28 June 2010 - 03:43 PM.