2208 replies to this topic

[sunshinefrost]

A new reseach, from april 12th, that demonstrate neurogenesis ;

Improvement in functional recovery with administration of Cerebrolysin after experimental closed head injury.

AuthorsZhang Y, et al. Show all Journal
J Neurosurg. 2013 Apr 12. [Epub ahead of print]

Affiliation
Departments of Neurosurgery and.

Abstract
Object Cerebrolysin is a unique peptide preparation that mimics the action of neurotrophic factors. This study was designed to investigate the effects of acute treatment of experimental closed head injury (CHI) in rats with Cerebrolysin on neurological function. Methods Adult male Wistar rats (n = 60) were subjected to impact acceleration-induced CHI. Closed head injured rats received intraperitoneal injection of saline (n = 30) or Cerebrolysin (2.5 ml/kg, n = 30) starting 1 hour postinjury and administered once daily until they were killed (2 or 14 days after CHI). To evaluate functional outcome, the modified neurological severity score (mNSS), foot fault, adhesive removal, and Morris water maze (MWM) tests were performed. Animals were killed on Day 14 (n = 20) after injury, and their brains were removed and processed for measurement of neuronal cells, axonal damage, apoptosis, and neuroblasts. The remaining rats (n = 40) were killed 2 days postinjury to evaluate cerebral microvascular patency by fluorescein isothiocyanate (FITC)-dextran perfusion (n = 16) and to emeasure the expression of vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF) and matrix metalloproteinase-9 (MMP-9) by using real-time reverse transcriptase-polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR, n = 8) and by immunohistochemical analysis (n = 16). Results At 14 days post-CHI, the Cerebrolysin treatment group exhibited significant improvements in functional outcomes (the adhesive removal, mNSS, foot-fault, and MWM tests), and significantly more neurons and neuroblasts were present in the dentate gyrus (DG) (p < 0.05) compared with the saline-treated group (p < 0.05). At 2 days post-CHI, the Cerebrolysin group exhibited a significantly higher percentage of phosphorylated neurofilament H (pNF-H)-positive staining area in the striatum (p < 0.05), a significant increase in the percentage of FITC-dextran perfused vessels in the brain cortex (p < 0.05), a significant increase in the number of VEGF-positive cells (p < 0.05), and a significant reduction in the MMP-9 staining area (p < 0.05) compared with the saline-treated group. There was no significant difference in mRNA levels of MMP-9 and VEGF in the hippocampus and cortex 48 hours postinjury between Cerebrolysin- and saline-treated rats that sustained CHI. Conclusions Acute Cerebrolysin treatment improves functional recovery in rats after CHI. Cerebrolysin is neuroprotective for CHI (increased neurons in the dentate gyrus and the CA3 regions of the hippocampus and increased neuroblasts in the dentate gyrus) and may preserve axonal integrity in the striatum (significantly increased percentage of pNF-H-positive tissue in the striatum). Reduction of MMP-9 and elevation of VEGF likely contribute to enhancement of vascular patency and integrity as well as neuronal survival induced by Cerebrolysin. These promising results suggest that Cerebrolysin may be a useful treatment in improving the recovery of patients with CHI.

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/23581594/

[nedbert9]

Having done many IM injections in the past I'm comfortable with that approach.


Though, with such an expense and the anecdotal reports of IV administration being superior I'm seriously considering IV.


Anyone have a resource for a butterfly IV setup?

[AwesomeName]

I plan on doing a month or so worth of cerebrolysin through IV to repair my post benzodiazapine withdrawal symptoms.
After I fix my other problems of course.

It won't be for a month or so.

I'm interested in hearing if it helped others with PBWS.

ALSO, has cere increased or decreased anyone's OCD or not?

Edited by AwesomeName, 17 April 2013 - 04:06 AM.

[CatChelator]

Second IM, left leg. Got very shaky and cold sweats, felt like i was going to pass out but managed to keep going and inject full 10ml. Strange experience, unpleasant at the time yet still quite enjoyable post fact. Guess I'm just into experimenting. Went a bit foggy a couple of hours afterwards and could definitely feel something in/on/happening to my brain. A slight throbbing perhaps. Nothing else to report.

[sunshinefrost]

Wow that must be paunfull... You should try the buttox

[CatChelator]

Nope, hasn't been painful yet.

[OpaqueMind]

I second the buttocks... It's the comfiest (i use that word lightly, in this context :P) place to inject, especially that much liquid. Are you planning to cycle injection sites? I imagine the shoulder would be difficult with such a volume of liquid.

[Sholrak]

Jonsnow, maybe you injected too fast. The shakiness and sweats are a sign of that. Take 30 to 60 secs per ml. And, 10 ml into a muscle site is too much.

[daouda]

I second the buttocks... It's the comfiest (i use that word lightly, in this context :P) place to inject, especially that much liquid. Are you planning to cycle injection sites? I imagine the shoulder would be difficult with such a volume of liquid.

For me injecting in the deltoids in the most convenient (not having to pull dowmn my pants and attempt accuracy and steadiness when twisting akwardly my body, plus using quick and painless short 25G needles), but I have to divide the 10ml in two 5ml injections, one in each shoulder. I think most men that arent marathonians and do some pushups regularly could stand this, but it would probably be too much for most women shoulders.

Edited by daouda, 18 April 2013 - 03:52 PM.

[OpaqueMind]

30 to 60 seconds per ml? Is that in line with medical guidelines? Does that reduce tissue damage? That time seems a bit excessive... I usually do 5ml in about 30 seconds, the longer I keep it in the more chance it will push against the inside of my flesh from moving slightly, which doesn't feel great.

[daouda]

That's also the beauty of using 25G needles, you simply cant eject the liquid out too fast no matter how hard you push, just push the plunger as hard as you can and it will inject at the perfect, constant flow rate
30 to 60sec per ml does seem excessive

Edited by daouda, 18 April 2013 - 04:07 PM.

[Sholrak]

Not following any medical guide. However, I remember in this thread someone saying heat sensation, nausea, dizziness, etc. mean you have injected cold liquid too fast.

I understand, as I have never IMed myself before, having the needle so much time is not comfortable. Maybe, 30 to 60 secs is way too much time, but I meant, you cannot inject 5 ml in 30 seconds, 10 ml in 1 min... You must get at least, to say, 15/20 secs per ml, or at least so I will do. I guess, the only way to avoid that secondary effects from injecting is doing it more slowly than you think it should be?

[CatChelator]

I second the buttocks... It's the comfiest (i use that word lightly, in this context :P) place to inject, especially that much liquid. Are you planning to cycle injection sites? I imagine the shoulder would be difficult with such a volume of liquid.

I'll probably try the ventro and dorso gluteal muscles, butt (pun) the ventro seems slightly more complicated to find while the dorso a bit of a logistical pain. I also remember reading somewhere that the thigh site can take more liquid than the others. You think dorso can take more though?

I thought to rotate sites it would be enough to move an inch up or down my thigh. Would the entire muscle require more than 48hrs recovery time (at least, as I probably won't be able to do it religiously every day so will miss days) as I switch between left and right thigh?

Using 25g 1.5". Has been mostly painless in thigh so far.



I'm taking cere to counteract the effects of post chemotherapy cognitive impairment (very mild brain damage from a prescription drug) - the last few years while I was on this medication I completely stopped dreaming, or at least remembering the experience of dreaming. It's been a year off them into recovery, and the dreams have been returning in a very vivid and powerful way. I've been taking cere a few hours before bed (don't want strange cognitive interference during the day) and have not dreamed both nights. Coincidence maybe or signs of something going on.

If anything I feel less in command of my vocabulary and a little foggier, but seeing as it's only 2 10ml injections so far I'll put that down to coincidence as well.

[daouda]

Was it 5-FU?

[sunshinefrost]

I second the buttocks... It's the comfiest (i use that word lightly, in this context :P) place to inject, especially that much liquid. Are you planning to cycle injection sites? I imagine the shoulder would be difficult with such a volume of liquid.

I'll probably try the ventro and dorso gluteal muscles, butt (pun) the ventro seems slightly more complicated to find while the dorso a bit of a logistical pain. I also remember reading somewhere that the thigh site can take more liquid than the others. You think dorso can take more though?

I thought to rotate sites it would be enough to move an inch up or down my thigh. Would the entire muscle require more than 48hrs recovery time (at least, as I probably won't be able to do it religiously every day so will miss days) as I switch between left and right thigh?

Using 25g 1.5". Has been mostly painless in thigh so far.



I'm taking cere to counteract the effects of post chemotherapy cognitive impairment (very mild brain damage from a prescription drug) - the last few years while I was on this medication I completely stopped dreaming, or at least remembering the experience of dreaming. It's been a year off them into recovery, and the dreams have been returning in a very vivid and powerful way. I've been taking cere a few hours before bed (don't want strange cognitive interference during the day) and have not dreamed both nights. Coincidence maybe or signs of something going on.

If anything I feel less in command of my vocabulary and a little foggier, but seeing as it's only 2 10ml injections so far I'll put that down to coincidence as well.

.

Hi ! I really must coment on this. Its a very good idea to regain frim the possible dammage of the chemotherapy. The thing that really bothers me is that uou are taking this before bed. You REALLY need to do this in the morning. You havnt started to respond yet, its impossible. The shortest you could do is 4 days. Before that, you are just building the effect. When you start to respond, cere will give you a subtle boost, and as neurogenesis starts to happen, your brain will addapt to the faster frequencies and THEN you will feel a very clear mental boost. I had trouble sleeping, trust me on this.

Second thing that inwould argue, cere isnt a strange cognitive interference. Its a CLEAR cognitive interderence will a usually welcomed anti-anxiety. It boosts your working memory so you are able to juggle with more data... Its tuff to see but im experienced

[CatChelator]

Hi ! I really must coment on this. Its a very good idea to regain frim the possible dammage of the chemotherapy. The thing that really bothers me is that uou are taking this before bed. You REALLY need to do this in the morning. You havnt started to respond yet, its impossible. The shortest you could do is 4 days. Before that, you are just building the effect. When you start to respond, cere will give you a subtle boost, and as neurogenesis starts to happen, your brain will addapt to the faster frequencies and THEN you will feel a very clear mental boost. I had trouble sleeping, trust me on this.

Second thing that inwould argue, cere isnt a strange cognitive interference. Its a CLEAR cognitive interderence will a usually welcomed anti-anxiety. It boosts your working memory so you are able to juggle with more data... Its tuff to see but im experienced

Sleep being a time of repair doesn't it make some sense to have cere work it's magic over night?

[CatChelator]

3rd thigh IM, 12 hours after the 2nd IM. First one to be done in the morning. Still no blood, lumps, pain or sore muscle. I drop the remaining .5ml left in the ampule under my tongue. Tastes like pigs brains.

[CatChelator]

Was it 5-FU?

Nope, wasn't 5-FU. Though from a quick read seems cere would be good treatment for people taking that. Seems like one of it's adverse effects is a kind of chemically induced Multiple Sclerosis. Nasty.

[sunshinefrost]

the magic happens when you are awake and using your working memory. Your working memory will be used when you drive a car and have to analyse where the moving cars are around you, changing lanes while keepiong notions of speed and several other factors... on cere, you just see a path forming itself even if there is mild traffic. With an enriched working memory, with a single stare, you grasp more. I dont know if its the anxiolithique aspect of it, that frees the brain from stress, that makes me more focused. what's surprising is that All this increased grasping of data is done faster then when i'm off it. When sleeping you don't controle the outcome, you can't focus on what. Cere will make you concentrate better in a relaxed kind of way, not edgy. on your days off you rest from the overactivity that may have resulted but some magic stays because you bathed your brain in a neurotrophic substance.

all this is tuff to put into words but 10 ml is a lot. On subsequent cycles i used doses of 2ml and did really well. Not much difference between 2 and 5 but a little.

anyways good luck

[daouda]

Just an update to let you know that has been a LOT of additional research on CERE for the last year. Here are all the 2012 and 2013 papers - there are 18 of them. There's been a total of 276 papers published about Cerebrolysin, 148 of them being studies in humans, since 1973...
I really cannot understand how/why this drug isnt more widely used by psychiatrists and neurologists worldwide, and isnt even authorized in most western countries.





1.

Improvement in functional recovery with administration of Cerebrolysin after experimental closed head injury.

Zhang Y, Chopp M, Meng Y, Zhang ZG, Doppler E, Mahmood A, Xiong Y.
J Neurosurg. 2013 Apr 12. [Epub ahead of print]

PMID: 23581594 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
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Select item 235286022.

[Assessment of the size of the thalamus as a method for the evaluation of the activity of neurodegenerative process after the treatment with cerebrolisin in young patients with multiple sclerosis.]

Boĭko AN, Batysheva TT, Mel'nikov MV, Boĭko OV, Mugutdinova BT, Gorina TP, Ovcharov VV, Bykova OV, Popova NF, Gusev EI.
Zh Nevrol Psikhiatr Im S S Korsakova. 2013;113(2 Vypusk 2 Rasseiannyi skleroz):104-110. Russian.

PMID: 23528602 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
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[A comparison of a neuroprotective effects of hypoxic postconditioning and cerebrolysin in the experimental model.]

Rybnikova EA, Vorob'ev MG, Pivina SG, Samoĭlov MO.
Zh Nevrol Psikhiatr Im S S Korsakova. 2013;113(2):54-58. Russian.

PMID: 23528584 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
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Cerebrolysin for vascular dementia.

Chen N, Yang M, Guo J, Zhou M, Zhu C, He L.
Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2013 Jan 31;1:CD008900. doi: 10.1002/14651858.CD008900.pub2. Review.

PMID: 23440834 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Cerebrolysin and its emerging clinical applications in psychiatry.

Kapoor S.
Aust N Z J Psychiatry. 2013 Feb 12. [Epub ahead of print] No abstract available.

PMID: 23405015 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
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Select item 231521926.

Cerebrolysin modulates pronerve growth factor/nerve growth factor ratio and ameliorates the cholinergic deficit in a transgenic model of Alzheimer's disease.

Ubhi K, Rockenstein E, Vazquez-Roque R, Mante M, Inglis C, Patrick C, Adame A, Fahnestock M, Doppler E, Novak P, Moessler H, Masliah E.
J Neurosci Res. 2013 Feb;91(2):167-77. doi: 10.1002/jnr.23142. Epub 2012 Nov 14.

PMID: 23152192 [PubMed - in process]
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Select item 230091937.

A prospective, randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind trial about safety and efficacy of combined treatment with alteplase (rt-PA) and Cerebrolysin in acute ischaemic hemispheric stroke.

Lang W, Stadler CH, Poljakovic Z, Fleet D; Lyse Study Group.
Int J Stroke. 2013 Feb;8(2):95-104. doi: 10.1111/j.1747-4949.2012.00901.x. Epub 2012 Sep 26.

PMID: 23009193 [PubMed - in process]
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Select item 228827118.

Cerebrolysin administration reduces oxidative stress-induced apoptosis in limphocytes from healthy individuals.

Formichi P, Radi E, Battisti C, Di Maio G, Muresanu D, Federico A.
J Cell Mol Med. 2012 Nov;16(11):2840-3. doi: 10.1111/j.1582-4934.2012.01615.x.

PMID: 22882711 [PubMed - in process]
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Effects of cerebrolysin administration on oxidative stress-induced apoptosis in lymphocytes from CADASIL patients.

Formichi P, Radi E, Battisti C, Di Maio G, Dotti MT, Muresanu D, Federico A.
Neurol Sci. 2013 Apr;34(4):553-6. doi: 10.1007/s10072-012-1174-y. Epub 2012 Aug 10.

PMID: 22878905 [PubMed - in process]
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Select item 2282603810.

Combined administration of cerebrolysin and donepezil induces plastic changes in prefrontal cortex in aged mice.

Alcántara-González F, Mendoza-Perez CR, Zaragoza N, Juarez I, Arroyo-García LE, Gamboa C, De La Cruz F, Zamudio S, Garcia-Dolores F, Flores G.
Synapse. 2012 Nov;66(11):938-49. doi: 10.1002/syn.21588. Epub 2012 Aug 13.

PMID: 22826038 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Safety profile of Cerebrolysin: clinical experience from dementia and stroke trials.

Thome J, Doppler E.
Drugs Today (Barc). 2012 Apr;48 Suppl A:63-9. doi: 10.1358/dot.2012.48(Suppl.A).1739724. Review.

PMID: 22514795 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Accelerated recovery from acute brain injuries: clinical efficacy of neurotrophic treatment in stroke and traumatic brain injuries.

Bornstein N, Poon WS.
Drugs Today (Barc). 2012 Apr;48 Suppl A:43-61. doi: 10.1358/dot.2012.48(Suppl.A).1739723. Review.

PMID: 22514794 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Cerebrolysin improves symptoms and delays progression in patients with Alzheimer's disease and vascular dementia.

Allegri RF, Guekht A.
Drugs Today (Barc). 2012 Apr;48 Suppl A:25-41. doi: 10.1358/dot.2012.48(Suppl.A).1739721. Review.

PMID: 22514793 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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The pharmacology of neurotrophic treatment with Cerebrolysin: brain protection and repair to counteract pathologies of acute and chronic neurological disorders.

Masliah E, Díez-Tejedor E.
Drugs Today (Barc). 2012 Apr;48 Suppl A:3-24. doi: 10.1358/dot.2012.48(Suppl.A).1739716. Review.

PMID: 22514792 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Therapeutic effects of cerebrolysin added to risperidone in patients with schizophrenia dominated by negative symptoms.

Xiao S, Xue H, Li G, Yuan C, Li X, Chen C, Wu HZ, Mitchell P, Zhang M.
Aust N Z J Psychiatry. 2012 Feb;46(2):153-60. doi: 10.1177/0004867411433213.

PMID: 22311531 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Cerebrolysin in patients with acute ischemic stroke in Asia: results of a double-blind, placebo-controlled randomized trial.

Heiss WD, Brainin M, Bornstein NM, Tuomilehto J, Hong Z; Cerebrolysin Acute Stroke Treatment in Asia (CASTA) Investigators.
Stroke. 2012 Mar;43(3):630-6. doi: 10.1161/STROKEAHA.111.628537. Epub 2012 Jan 26.

PMID: 22282884 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Free Article
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Cerebrolysin, a mixture of neurotrophic factors induces marked neuroprotection in spinal cord injury following intoxication of engineered nanoparticles from metals.

Menon PK, Muresanu DF, Sharma A, Mössler H, Sharma HS.
CNS Neurol Disord Drug Targets. 2012 Feb;11(1):40-9. Review.

PMID: 22229324 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Select item 2222931618.

Superior neuroprotective effects of cerebrolysin in nanoparticle-induced exacerbation of hyperthermia-induced brain pathology.

Sharma A, Muresanu DF, Mössler H, Sharma HS.
CNS Neurol Disord Drug Targets. 2012 Feb;11(1):7-25. Review.

PMID: 22229316 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Edited by daouda, 23 April 2013 - 01:33 AM.

[Rior]

I've gotta say, it's things like this that solidify my hatred of the FDA and its politics. Having had a serious concussion 4 years ago, I of course did not know of Cerebrolysin at the time...and it would have perhaps completely changed the direction my mind went afterwards. With this kind of potential, there is no way to describe the current lack of use in the United States other than with the word 'ludicrous.'

[Nero]

Rior and other Cerebrolysin users would you say this is a life changing substance for you?

Edited by Nero, 23 April 2013 - 04:48 PM.

[OpaqueMind]

It has been pretty profound for me. Before I could barely remember with any clarity what I did yesterday, now associational memories pop into my head unbidden. Granted, this is along with doing Memory specificty training everyday, but I doubt I would have made as much progress as I have without it. I'm also not debilitated by a lack of sleep whereas before I would have been zombified for the day, incapable of anything that demanded greater cognitive power than tying a shoelace (only a slight exaggeration). The extent of the gains you'll see depend a lot on your starting point, although other people here who had no previous ailments seem to have made progress too. All in all, definitely the most effective nootropic I've tried.

[Sholrak]

I'm having trouble with online shops to buy the equipment needed. Where you buy syringes, 25G IM 1-1.5" needles, and filtered needles, all in one web?

Edited by Sholrak, 23 April 2013 - 06:17 PM.

[BigGuy1980]

First inject tonight, went fine. Into thigh. Only problem: I found it pretty tricky to hold the cere ampule and draw out the solution. I ended up leaving 0.5-1ml in the ampule and only injecting 9 or so mls. Anyone got any tips on how to get the full 10 ml into the syringe? My hands are generally a bit shaky, i banged the needle around on the inside of the ampule a little bit, figure that's ok though.

Thanks.

I crack the ampule and use a 1.5 inch 23g to draw and switch to pin with a 1.5 in 27g... I prefill 2- 5ml plungers and administer 1ml per day while storing the plunger/syringe in the fridge.

I'm having trouble with online shops to buy the equipment needed. Where you buy syringes, 25G IM 1-1.5" needles, and filtered needles, all in one web?

try androusa.com

[CatChelator]

First inject tonight, went fine. Into thigh. Only problem: I found it pretty tricky to hold the cere ampule and draw out the solution. I ended up leaving 0.5-1ml in the ampule and only injecting 9 or so mls. Anyone got any tips on how to get the full 10 ml into the syringe? My hands are generally a bit shaky, i banged the needle around on the inside of the ampule a little bit, figure that's ok though.

Thanks.

I crack the ampule and use a 1.5 inch 23g to draw and switch to pin with a 1.5 in 27g... I prefill 2- 5ml plungers and administer 1ml per day while storing the plunger/syringe in the fridge.

I just had to get used to it and refine my technique. IMing 10ml at a time, drawing and injecting with the same 25g needle. No problems.

[IA87]

I've still been waiting for the day when there is a needle-free analogue of this substance.

[therein]

@Sholrak
I have many 25G needles and 10mL syringes left from my previous cycle and I don't intend on using them. They are (obviously) unopened/unused. I would be more than happy to ship them to you for the minimal price if you are living in the US. Let me know if you're interested. I also have 5x5mL Cerebrolysin left. I can sell that to whoever is interested also.

@IA87
Considering how we don't even know what exactly is in Cerebrolysin, I don't see that happening for a long time.

[IA87]

I'll be waiting a long time, then. :(

[OpaqueMind]

I.M. injections are riduculously easy once you do them a few times. They're even easy the first few times, once the nerves are settled! Actually it's a little unnerving how quickly one comes to find it an utterly ordinary, even mildly enjoyable ritual. The results are absolutely worth it man. There's nothing like Cerebrolysin out at the moment. It's been the backbone of my cognitive enhancement. Other noots are essentially peripheral.