2208 replies to this topic

[Sholrak]

So I concluded my trial prematurely (after 2 weeks/100ml) due to discovering that Cere is primarily synaptogenic, whereas NSI-189 is neurogenic. (correct me if I'm wrong) Given that I expect to have NSI in a few weeks, it would make more sense to grow new neurons before adding new synapses. I.E. I'm saving 100ml for after, or (intermittently) during my NSI trial. That, and my legs were getting sore from all the poking.

That said, I have not noticed any benefits whatsoever from Cerebrolysin thus far, and I'm hoping that NSI will exert more substantial effects.
In the meantime I'm trying the Mr. Happy stack with some additions for 2 weeks. In any case, I'll report back here once or if I use Cere again.

P.S. Don't let my experience scare you from trying it. My personal case is also a bit... unique, so chances are it would help others.

Formergenius, I suggest you take notes on how you feel in a month ie. maybe that way you'll be able to appreciate the effect. Sometimes, Cere requires a period off it to notice what improvements it gave. Try to figure out if something has changed in the next month. The bad thing is people usually drops Cerebrolysin and they stick to other nootropics, while in my opinion, you have to be about one month (or less) without it and any other new drug, to let you know it's range calmly. Yes, the ironic thing with this nootropic is you have to be sensitive and aware of certain changes, in opposite with some acute improvements other drugs or nootropics provide being unmistakable, and Cere being more like a puzzle.

[Constantine Vorobyoff]

Waste of time basically. I don't notice any damn thing. Maybe old or very young ones would have a larger effect, assuming that people do injections to their 3 month old children with cognitive difficulties in Russia, and my granny takes it.

Edited by Constantine Vorobyoff, 18 December 2013 - 09:30 PM.

[Sholrak]

Waste of time basically. I don't notice any damn thing. Maybe old or very young ones would have a larger effect, assuming that people do injections to their 3 month old children with cognitive difficulties in Russia, and my granny takes it.

I'm sorry you wasted your time. I did not wasted mine.

[arboles]

Waste of time basically. I don't notice any damn thing. Maybe old or very young ones would have a larger effect, assuming that people do injections to their 3 month old children with cognitive difficulties in Russia, and my granny takes it.

I'm sorry you wasted your time. I did not wasted mine.

have you taken it?

[PAM2]

So far 3 weeks gone, and my experiences are positive as well. Elevated mood. You have to be careful, not to inject it into vein (once I did it, and felt an extreme energizing effect, which was a bit uncomfortable). Maybe its only me, who reacts so sensitively to cerebro, but on my side it works pretty well.

[hope_boosted]

Could anyone kind tell me where they are getting their filters and what type? I know there has been arguments from both sides but I'd rather be safe so this info would be really appreciated. Thank you.

[SLR2009]

So far 3 weeks gone, and my experiences are positive as well. Elevated mood. You have to be careful, not to inject it into vein (once I did it, and felt an extreme energizing effect, which was a bit uncomfortable). Maybe its only me, who reacts so sensitively to cerebro, but on my side it works pretty well.

Hi zach,

Glad to hear that you're having a positive effect. May I ask where you purchased Cerebrolysin from?

[Constantine Vorobyoff]

Get it from Russia. Buy Cortexine from an online pharmacy and redirect the parcel with some redirect companies. You may have to learn russian hahaha, but it seems like you'll use it a lot anyway.

[PAM2]

I use the Ever Neuro Pharma Cerebrolysin (Austrian company). As posted before, it is generally called the Genuine cerebrolysin (if you had the chance to get it, it would be an optimal choice, however I DON'T know the other companies, most people had positive xperience with it).
I use 5 days on, 2 off. Already 3 weeks gone, I plane my first cycle for 2 months, after at least a month off. So far the "coctail" works for me, as I already take PRL as well daily (and some other compounds, which I can write you in pm).

Now I'm synthetising the newer compounds (S32212, ISRIB, and nicotine alpha-7 agonist), so I will start the other tests around february..

So far 3 weeks gone, and my experiences are positive as well. Elevated mood. You have to be careful, not to inject it into vein (once I did it, and felt an extreme energizing effect, which was a bit uncomfortable). Maybe its only me, who reacts so sensitively to cerebro, but on my side it works pretty well.

Hi zach,

Glad to hear that you're having a positive effect. May I ask where you purchased Cerebrolysin from?

[Flex]

Could anyone kind tell me where they are getting their filters and what type? I know there has been arguments from both sides but I'd rather be safe so this info would be really appreciated. Thank you.

I bought Sterifix Filterstraw 10cm for 70 Euro cent per piece.
http://www.bbraun.co...742770000000163

Dont forget to buy luer & lock needles and siringes. You need them, because the filter has a luer lock connection.

I bought this.100 pieces for ca. 20 Euro
http://www.bbraun.co...id=PRID00003171

[Flex]

Btw: a 5 muM Filter is sufficend, because at sizes below, the filter would clog.

[SLR2009]

Thanks for the info. How can I order Cerebrolysin from Ever Neuro Pharma (Austrian Company)?

I use the Ever Neuro Pharma Cerebrolysin (Austrian company). As posted before, it is generally called the Genuine cerebrolysin (if you had the chance to get it, it would be an optimal choice, however I DON'T know the other companies, most people had positive xperience with it).
I use 5 days on, 2 off. Already 3 weeks gone, I plane my first cycle for 2 months, after at least a month off. So far the "coctail" works for me, as I already take PRL as well daily (and some other compounds, which I can write you in pm).

Now I'm synthetising the newer compounds (S32212, ISRIB, and nicotine alpha-7 agonist), so I will start the other tests around february..

So far 3 weeks gone, and my experiences are positive as well. Elevated mood. You have to be careful, not to inject it into vein (once I did it, and felt an extreme energizing effect, which was a bit uncomfortable). Maybe its only me, who reacts so sensitively to cerebro, but on my side it works pretty well.

Hi zach,

Glad to hear that you're having a positive effect. May I ask where you purchased Cerebrolysin from?

Edited by SLR2009, 20 December 2013 - 05:57 AM.

[Flex]

Btw there arent any other manufacturers or blends of Cerebrolysine( unless they are fake).

The only other similair products are Semax and some who I forget.

Therefore it dont matter if You order it from Suprhumangear or nootropics.eu.
Unless they are selling fake, but the users here confirmed that theirs work.

As far as I know, the Austrian law doesnt allow the Austrian Pharmacys to send any perscripted drugs, even within the Country.

Edited by Flex, 20 December 2013 - 06:06 AM.

[PAM2]

I got cerebro through prescription from a pharmacy directly (family doctor - prescription - pharmaicy).

Thanks for the info. How can I order Cerebrolysin from Ever Neuro Pharma (Austrian Company)?

I use the Ever Neuro Pharma Cerebrolysin (Austrian company). As posted before, it is generally called the Genuine cerebrolysin (if you had the chance to get it, it would be an optimal choice, however I DON'T know the other companies, most people had positive xperience with it).
I use 5 days on, 2 off. Already 3 weeks gone, I plane my first cycle for 2 months, after at least a month off. So far the "coctail" works for me, as I already take PRL as well daily (and some other compounds, which I can write you in pm).

Now I'm synthetising the newer compounds (S32212, ISRIB, and nicotine alpha-7 agonist), so I will start the other tests around february..

So far 3 weeks gone, and my experiences are positive as well. Elevated mood. You have to be careful, not to inject it into vein (once I did it, and felt an extreme energizing effect, which was a bit uncomfortable). Maybe its only me, who reacts so sensitively to cerebro, but on my side it works pretty well.

Hi zach,

Glad to hear that you're having a positive effect. May I ask where you purchased Cerebrolysin from?

[Flex]

Hey Zach do You get a German or a Hungarian package leaflet ?

I´m asking this because of a private reason.

[spookytooth]

Hey Zach do You get a German or a Hungarian package leaflet ?

I´m asking this because of a private reason.

I irdered from a Austrian pharmacy with a prescription and they shipped the Cerebrolysin internationally. I received a German package leaflet.

[PAM2]

I got it direcly/personally from the pharmacy, as cerebro is registered in Slovakia (where I have a friend, who lets it continously prescribed..).

Hey Zach do You get a German or a Hungarian package leaflet ?

I´m asking this because of a private reason.

[Flex]

@ Zach
Thx

I´m planning for my self to do Cerebrolysine IV (with 5 muM filter) every 2´nd day and between the days NSI-189 + Lion´s Mane + Humanobol.
I would gladly add Fishoil, but Vitamin E inhibits VEGF(afaik).

Could anybody evaluate/estimate or add his suggestions to my Plan ?

[Sholrak]

@ Zach
Thx

I´m planning for my self to do Cerebrolysine IV (with 5 muM filter) every 2´nd day and between the days NSI-189 + Lion´s Mane + Humanobol.
I would gladly add Fishoil, but Vitamin E inhibits VEGF(afaik).

Could anybody evaluate/estimate or add his suggestions to my Plan ?

If you've been taking NSI before it's ok. if not, I suggest leave it to know Cerebrolysin's effects more accurately.

Also, you got any medical IV knowledge? I woldn't dare to IV myself, but that's up to you.

[Flex]

Thanks, I would but my Schedule is tight to try it seperately.

No, i dont have any great IV knowledge. The only thing I know is to dont inject it too fast.
The Cardiovascular system would afaik compesate this (10 ml), but not the brain .

I really dont dare to inject it to my self per se. The only concerns for me are that I would do something wrong e.g. to miss the Vein or even pierce it.
But therefore I will inform me via forums and Youtube.

[Sholrak]

IV inj. should be unlike IM (which is 90º), about 30-60 approx. so it's quite different than muscle giving (more of a diagonal shot), search for it on detail and be careful. Circulatory system in general is something you don't wanna fuck off.

And also, it passes by vein exponentially more quickly than by muscle and that can make you sweat and feel 'rushy'. The rush is a nice thing, and a quick administration signal too. I would avoid as possible getting impatient and injecting a lot faster. Calculate a seconds by ml and deal with that.

Edited by Sholrak, 25 December 2013 - 04:16 AM.

[trevyn]

Hi all,

Just thought I'd check in. For reference, I'm the guy that made the "Cerebrolysin Injection" video on YouTube, and posted a bunch of research in this thread back in 2009.

I've done over 150 injections of Cerebrolysin, mostly back in late 2009 and 2010, starting with 5 mL IM for the first 50 or so administrations, then moving up to 10 mL IM with increased effect. I've never tried IV administration, I've only used the vastus lateralis site, and I've always used a filter for glass particles.

I haven't had any adverse reactions whatsoever. I haven't done any objective performance measurements, and it would be fallacious to think that I could quantify any changes in life outcome based on my experiences. Subjectively, I still enjoy the effects of Cerebrolysin, and consider it a secret weapon of sorts.

I took a bunch of time off for three reasons:

1) Potential immunogenic response, as discussed in posts #400 and #401 in this thread. It's unclear to me if this response would primarily affect efficacy (which would likely present as a simple tolerance), or safety. See PMID 22770604.

2) Possible presence of amyloid-beta in Cerebrolysin, due to amyloid-beta's size and the fact that Cerebrolysin is brain-derived. Again, it's unclear to me if this would actually be a risk of any kind (amyloid-beta is naturally present in serum), but its association with Alzheimer's disease is notable.

3) Daily injections are tedious.

To be clear, I haven't experienced any adverse effects that would suggest an issue, I'm merely pointing out areas in which I believe there is insufficient research.

I'm also still somewhat concerned about the counterfeit factor, and did a little bit of research on analytical methods. I think it might be worthwhile to send samples from multiple suppliers to someplace like Kendrick Labs for gel electrophoresis of the peptide fraction of Cere. (I doubt the injection of simple free amino acids is responsible for any effect.)

In particular, 1D slab gel electrophoresis with the low-molecular-weight peptide slab gel would probably be sufficient for comparing samples from multiple suppliers.

Though more costly, it would also be interesting to do actual mass spec analysis of the various peptides in Cerebrolysin...

[Flex]

IV inj. should be unlike IM (which is 90º), about 30-60 approx. so it's quite different than muscle giving (more of a diagonal shot), search for it on detail and be careful. Circulatory system in general is something you don't wanna fuck off.

And also, it passes by vein exponentially more quickly than by muscle and that can make you sweat and feel 'rushy'. The rush is a nice thing, and a quick administration signal too. I would avoid as possible getting impatient and injecting a lot faster. Calculate a seconds by ml and deal with that.

Thank You very much for the Info

[Keizo]

One slightly disturbing/unusual effect I did notice... Perhaps it's only disturbing because I read too much into it (some type of relation between NGF, BDNF and various mental illness and so on). Just like when watching a familiar building with a certain color-scheme and then conjuring emotional content and memories freely and other associations, as with listening to music and imagining the intent and meaning in visual symbolic terms as it goes along... (All greatly brought on by cerebrolysin.)
What did become rather peculiar was when I went to bed a couple of times (days near the few 5ml injections I did), I seemed to be able to continue my basic thoughts or emotions in these fairly basic images. Like my thoughts/emotions continued and all became completely(?) represented in that one morphing image. Without any obvious outside stimuli to cause it. For example I got this image of a female face with uniform skin all over her eyes and so on. (I guess it was some anxiety and arousal towards the female gender that was rumbling underneath, or something like that, that it transformed from. Not too obvious what the connection was.) Well it felt fairly immersive, connected, whatever. Perhaps it felt too easy and almost automatic for me to do this.
Maybe I'm usually just really poor in my ability to think in images and so on, it's not like people really specify and quantify when they say "I think in images". Hopefully this is mostly just another manifestation of the anti-anxiety slash anti-stress properties, which can enable ones mind to operate freely and break old habits of fear and anxiety.

1 month or so since I did the 5x5ml over a period of 8 days or so. After 3 weeks the effects of stress-relief seemed to very noticeably decline. They probably weren't perfect to begin with, but immediate and very significant. I'm sort of just feeling OK right now, , but in november I was much more impaired by "stress" and it's inducers (protracted benzo wd and related complications like muscle tension, completely passive life in front of my computer, and perhaps a brain not designed for this society) cognitively and bodily. Am going to do a more extensive regimen ASAP.


Edit: That all also got me wondering if I could bring back my synesthesia using cerebrolysin. But now I guess this might in fact be something along those lines. (And in a way I think a lot of the human mind operates like synesthesia or ideasthesia. Our sense of being in touch with the "REAL world" is greatly inflated I believe, perhaps a product of a streamlined society where pruning the brain like mad is a good thing (all the way from the over-stressed under-stimulating kindergarten-experience to the monotone work-place). It's all mostly relations and language, at least that's what's apparent experientially.)

Edited by Nume, 30 December 2013 - 05:33 PM.

[SLR2009]

Anyone know if Cerebrolysin can rebuild/repair the white Matter, myelin?

[Sholrak]

One slightly disturbing/unusual effect I did notice... Perhaps it's only disturbing because I read too much into it (some type of relation between NGF, BDNF and various mental illness and so on). Just like when watching a familiar building with a certain color-scheme and then conjuring emotional content and memories freely and other associations, as with listening to music and imagining the intent and meaning in visual symbolic terms as it goes along... (All greatly brought on by cerebrolysin.)
What did become rather peculiar was when I went to bed a couple of times (days near the few 5ml injections I did), I seemed to be able to continue my basic thoughts or emotions in these fairly basic images. Like my thoughts/emotions continued and all became completely(?) represented in that one morphing image. Without any obvious outside stimuli to cause it. For example I got this image of a female face with uniform skin all over her eyes and so on. (I guess it was some anxiety and arousal towards the female gender that was rumbling underneath, or something like that, that it transformed from. Not too obvious what the connection was.) Well it felt fairly immersive, connected, whatever. Perhaps it felt too easy and almost automatic for me to do this.
Maybe I'm usually just really poor in my ability to think in images and so on, it's not like people really specify and quantify when they say "I think in images". Hopefully this is mostly just another manifestation of the anti-anxiety slash anti-stress properties, which can enable ones mind to operate freely and break old habits of fear and anxiety.

1 month or so since I did the 5x5ml over a period of 8 days or so. After 3 weeks the effects of stress-relief seemed to very noticeably decline. They probably weren't perfect to begin with, but immediate and very significant. I'm sort of just feeling OK right now, , but in november I was much more impaired by "stress" and it's inducers (protracted benzo wd and related complications like muscle tension, completely passive life in front of my computer, and perhaps a brain not designed for this society) cognitively and bodily. Am going to do a more extensive regimen ASAP.


Edit: That all also got me wondering if I could bring back my synesthesia using cerebrolysin. But now I guess this might in fact be something along those lines. (And in a way I think a lot of the human mind operates like synesthesia or ideasthesia. Our sense of being in touch with the "REAL world" is greatly inflated I believe, perhaps a product of a streamlined society where pruning the brain like mad is a good thing (all the way from the over-stressed under-stimulating kindergarten-experience to the monotone work-place). It's all mostly relations and language, at least that's what's apparent experientially.)

I agree cerebrolysin effects can somewhat be impressing. What you are getting into blood flow is a compound which is capable of mimicking the effects of various neurotrophic factors (NGF, BDNF, GDNF, NF 3, and 4, IGF 1 and 2) which were more abundant in your teen ages (until 19-21 y/o) and probable the reason why the young people is so active, minded, motivated and everything. I would say that's impressing and even scary, and I will agree with everyone who says it can bring back some synesthesia or childhood/teenagers anxiety/situational problems. But, you have to keep in mind, if you reached the Cere step, that you must be looking for something amazing, something you could never imaginate you would be able to see and live. The next step is take knowledge of pharmacokinetics and reduce that dose. Not everyone will benefit from the 5ml daily, and no one imposes you that doses. If you've tried that and found it overwhelming, just start to make experiments with lower dose. We already know (the people who used it I mean) what Cerebrolysin does. Just a matter of preferences. Try half dose, and make a correlation between doses. 5 ml is truly powerful material.

You have to realize you are forcing a process for which your brain was programmed only until the complete development of your brain. So certainly is like cheating on neurochemistry, as you will supply your brain with active principles that should not be there. Is like being young mentally again. So better not running. Test it. It's big deal, it's a drastic solution for drastic situation. I will repeat. For me 5 ml was nice but too much, and 2.5 was the neutral thing. It's a world to conquest. I just said 'I've seen God' when I saw Cerebrolysin. Take it easy please. And any doubt, here :D

[Keizo]

I agree cerebrolysin effects can somewhat be impressing. What you are getting into blood flow is a compound which is capable of mimicking the effects of various neurotrophic factors (NGF, BDNF, GDNF, NF 3, and 4, IGF 1 and 2) which were more abundant in your teen ages (until 19-21 y/o) and probable the reason why the young people is so active, minded, motivated and everything. I would say that's impressing and even scary, and I will agree with everyone who says it can bring back some synesthesia or childhood/teenagers anxiety/situational problems. But, you have to keep in mind, if you reached the Cere step, that you must be looking for something amazing, something you could never imaginate you would be able to see and live. The next step is take knowledge of pharmacokinetics and reduce that dose. Not everyone will benefit from the 5ml daily, and no one imposes you that doses. If you've tried that and found it overwhelming, just start to make experiments with lower dose. We already know (the people who used it I mean) what Cerebrolysin does. Just a matter of preferences. Try half dose, and make a correlation between doses. 5 ml is truly powerful material.

You have to realize you are forcing a process for which your brain was programmed only until the complete development of your brain. So certainly is like cheating on neurochemistry, as you will supply your brain with active principles that should not be there. Is like being young mentally again. So better not running. Test it. It's big deal, it's a drastic solution for drastic situation. I will repeat. For me 5 ml was nice but too much, and 2.5 was the neutral thing. It's a world to conquest. I just said 'I've seen God' when I saw Cerebrolysin. Take it easy please. And any doubt, here :D

Yes I won't be increasing the dose anyway. It's kind of hard to judge how powerful the effects really are, it seems, well by only using 5x5ml it is anyway. It seems I notice now a while after much better what the effects are. So I will take it slow. I will probably do 5ml every other day or something like that, or I'll perhaps drop down to 2.5, we'll see.. (Just ordered 20x5ml so I'll have a more proper run.)
I'm basically trying to get over whatever changes benzodiazepines might've left me with (well they did), and perhaps correct my brain to be at least slightly more stress-resilient besides that (which it never was) as to just function okay in everyday life. Which it seems like the perfect choice for.

Really my experience wasn't too overwhelming or scary, though I imagine the effects might build up to something rather strange and overly energized if you overdo it. (I think I have a slightly above average chance of getting hallucinations and similar phenomena, compared to most people, so I'm not that surprised by anything remotely like it. Which reminds me I got synesthesia from using 20mg Ritalin a few years ago...all the tinnitus appeared in distinct image-forms, perhaps the migraine helped.)


What does concern me in concrete terms is the potential that it might increase risks for cancer. So for that reason it seems like a good idea to be moderate. Relating to IGF-1 and whatever else. I don't know if there's a clear connection though, or at what levels. And hopefully healthy living might off-set any such potential.

Edited by Nume, 05 January 2014 - 01:41 PM.

[Flex]

Anyone know if Cerebrolysin can rebuild/repair the white Matter, myelin?

Yes, according to this:
Sonic hedgehog signaling pathway mediates cerebrolysin-improved neurological function after stroke.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/23696546
...These results demonstrate that the Shh pathway mediates cerebrolysin-enhanced neurogenesis and white matter remodeling and improves functional recovery in rats after stroke.

As far as I know the followings are capable too, to do this:
NGF (Nerve Growth Factor)
Lion´s Mane (maybe via NGF promoting effects)
Benzatropine (In preclinical models for multiple sclerosis, benzatropine decreased clinical symptoms and enhanced re-myelination (Deshmukh et al., Nature 2013))

Withania somnifera aka Ashwagandha could be interresting to You.
Be carefull its an Anti-coagulant
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/18670181
[Overcoming several neurodegenerative diseases by traditional medicines: the development of therapeutic medicines and unraveling pathophysiological mechanisms]

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15711595
Neuritic regeneration and synaptic reconstruction induced by withanolide A

Edited by Flex, 06 January 2014 - 02:20 AM.

[formergenius]

Can anyone comment on 20ml/day? I have 90ml left. did 10ml today, intend to do 10ml tomorrow, and 20ml/day after that.
10ml/day didn't do anything for me, and NSI-189 has yet to arrive, so I figured I might have a better shot at double the dose whilst I wait.
Also, as a side-note; 7,8-dihydroxyflavone seems much more potent than Cerebrolysin at agonizing TrkB, plus it's orally active, so those receiving benefits from Cerebrolysin might want to look in to joining the group buy.

Edited by formergenius, 06 January 2014 - 02:28 AM.

[Flex]

Maybe I´ve made a mistake with my post.

Just to clarify:
According to Wikipedia, White matter consists mostly of myelin and Glialcells.
So i.e benzatropine does, seemingly, not regenerate Glialcells.

Edited by Flex, 06 January 2014 - 08:17 PM.