2208 replies to this topic

[Sholrak]

Can anyone comment on 20ml/day? I have 90ml left. did 10ml today, intend to do 10ml tomorrow, and 20ml/day after that.
10ml/day didn't do anything for me, and NSI-189 has yet to arrive, so I figured I might have a better shot at double the dose whilst I wait.
Also, as a side-note; 7,8-dihydroxyflavone seems much more potent than Cerebrolysin at agonizing TrkB, plus it's orally active, so those receiving benefits from Cerebrolysin might want to look in to joining the group buy.

No problemo with that. Some studies used even 50ml daily by hartman/saline solution IVenously. Those doses up to 10 ml are better used for stroke and similar issues but there shouldn't be a conflict if you don't get a thing from 5-10 ml, just the money issue.


I would be interested on your experience at 20 ml/day as I will never use that so I'm curious about it.

[fj929]

HI guys, I am curious what is the best source of Cerebro out there? I am worried about fake products. I don't care about price just looking to ensure the product is real.

[formergenius]

Thanks Sholrak. Unfortunately I never got around to doing 20ml/day.. I'm currently doing NSI-189 however, and seeing as I intend to up the dose, my supply will run out soon. I intend to do a quick 20ml/day cycle shortly thereafter before continuing NSI-189 once my second batch arrives.

[ashkie]

So I posted this as a separate thread but got no replies. Thought I'd post here:

Long time lurker, first time poster. Here's my story:

Read the entire cerebrolysin thread and found it quite interesting. Ordered 10x10 mL vials, did a shitload of research on IM injections and learned everything about the ventrogluteal site and how to do an injection in the gluteus medius. It's actually amazing and virtually painless, compared to the vastus lateralis which almost made me faint and hurt like a mofo for days... Plan was to do a regimen of 5 mL a day, 5 times a week, rest day on weekends, for a month. I did the first week without noticing much. Because of school I put it off for a bit then did 2 weeks straight again without noticing any pronounced effects. Went on holidays for 2 weeks and came back and now I'm finishing up the last week on day 3, still haven't noticed much. I'm a pretty big guy, around 5'11", 180 lbs so I'm thinking the 5 mL wasn't enough.

Since this drug has shown so much promise for a lot of users of this forum and theoretically is just a lot of growth factors for the brain, I don't see why I shouldn't notice any effects from it. So I've ordered 20x10 mL vials this time around, which should be arriving in the mail in a week or 2, and I'm going to start another regimen for a month, this time of 10 mL a day for 5 days a week, 2 days off. I want to gain the most benefits from this and I realize that the effects are not quite pronounced and can sometimes be very subtle since it's basically providing a lot of nutrition for the brain and not exerting any direct neurological effects.

So what are some suggestions for me to gain the most out of this 2nd run? Things I should be doing/nootropics? I've gone back to the gym and am contemplating taking noopept and CDP choline with it in an attempt to accelerate the resensitization of my Da receptors. Thoughts? I'm also working on diligently forming some new habits which I've been working on sporadically in the past few months.

And since I'm going to be doing 2 5 mL injections a day this time around, what's the best way to do that in the ventrogluteal site? Do both on the same side, spaced a few cm apart, and do another set of 2 on the other side the next day? Or 1 and 1 on each side per day?

Appreciate the support guys!

[Keizo]

I was just going to write the other day that the prominent effects do not seem as obvious as the first test-run I did last year. Have been doing 5 or so injections again, this time, 15 to go, 5ml 5 days a week.

Some sort of attempt at a summary for me:
Things seem easier. I'm more relaxed and I can wrap myself around complex ideas, and less pleasant situation without my brain freezing, and so on.
I tend to enjoy music better, and my vision is 3d rather than 2d...
Perhaps I'm a bit more easily agitated. (I should probably stop taking this awful Ginkgo Biloba that's giving me headaches, and be a bit more active.)
I seem slightly tired in a rather different way than I used to be without Cerebrolysin (I used to have migraine-like symptoms and having quit benzos some time ago left me very void of energy). Perhaps the effects on GABA transmission. Or due to mild allergic reactions? Probably (my memory still isn't very good) I got a bit drowsy the first go-around by Cere, but also more energized than now, also I think effects were better noticed over-all once I let a few weeks pass.

It's possible I got such prominent effects last year due to the thrill of doing this whole thing. And perhaps now it feels as I've lost that momentum. Not in a bad way though.
I was thinking... Maybe it's dopamine that causes this tired feeling. At first, last year, I might've gotten a larger dopamine kick out of this experience, thus slightly more engaging. But in low doses I believe it can causes sleepiness as well.

Either way... I have always been rather sensitive and quitting benzos last year did not help. Cere seems to help very well with this.
Biggest help: I'm no longer in constant stress-mode

[Keizo]

So I posted this as a separate thread but got no replies. Thought I'd post here:

Long time lurker, first time poster. Here's my story:

Cool.
You don't have any major or obvious problems you are trying to address though? Aid in studying?

Perhaps Cerebrolysin makes one a bit wrapped up in ones own head, that's another theory of mine why it might not be readily apparent if it helps. Although Alzheimer's-patients apparently get a lot higher doses than most people here take. Well... I think Noopept for example has much more obvious effects.

CDP-choline seems quite effective for me personally, short term, but I think I got some gout from it.


As for injections I would probably do some injections in another muscle group as well if I was planning what you are. I've got slightly sore injection sites after doing the same spot for 4 days in a row. Well best be slightly careful... The dorsogluteal is easy enough. Maybe day 1 injection in each side of the dorsogluteal, day 2 same in the ventrogluteal , and then switch back to dorso and so forth.
I was thinking about doing an injection in my leg for a change, but probably I'll just do it once to see how it works.

Edited by Nume, 19 January 2014 - 11:36 PM.

[Nero]

is it true the Cerebrolysin literally means the breaking down of the brain ?
anybody know anything about this

Edited by Nero, 23 January 2014 - 09:20 PM.

[Keizo]

is it true the Cerebrolysin literally means the breaking down of the brain ?
anybody know anything about this

I don't know latin...but something like that I hear. The meaning of the name in that case likely refers to the pig-brains used to create the drug.

[Keizo]

On another note, I took a slight break from Cere for 2 days... Got some slight fever and muscle weakness...
I think I got it last time around after finishing 5 injections (thought it was something I ate since I crapped my pants, but probably not), these flu-like symptoms (I managed to avoid the diarrhea this time) people have been talking about and is mentioned as side-effects elsewhere. Will continue tomorrow and then onwards.
Will henceforth associate any prominent feelings of tiredness with the path leading up to these effects.

Actually I will be thinking about decreasing the dose. The good effects seem plenty anyway.

Edited by Nume, 23 January 2014 - 11:09 PM.

[fj929]

Anyone think that perhaps the mood lifting and anti anxiety effect of Cerebrolysin is from the Tryptophan?

[fj929]

why is nootropic.eu directing people to this site for more information about the drug?

Why would a legitimate pharmacy ever direct people to a message board to find out more about the effects of their drug?
I am taking a pass on Nootropic.eu

http://www.nootropic...am=cid=1&aid=1

[formergenius]

Well I decided to go with 5ml/day instead. Sometimes less is more and all that. I felt rebound anxiety coming up from the half-tablet Etizolam I took last night, and after the shot it subsided to normal levels.
I must have read this thread about 5 times top to bottom. I tend to forget things, and I certainly don't feel like reading it all again.

So I want to ask; has anyone stored Cerebrolysin outside the fridge and used it the next day?
I have 10ml ampules, and after my shot this morning, I just left the second filled syringe (and capped needle attached) in a closet.
I've read a lot of people storing it in their fridge, though unfortunately I don't have any ziploc bags to put them in, moreover don't bacteria et al. get preserved in cold conditions?

I'd appreciate if anyone could shed some light on this before the tomorrow

[Keizo]

Well I decided to go with 5ml/day instead. Sometimes less is more and all that. I felt rebound anxiety coming up from the half-tablet Etizolam I took last night, and after the shot it subsided to normal levels.
I must have read this thread about 5 times top to bottom. I tend to forget things, and I certainly don't feel like reading it all again.

So I want to ask; has anyone stored Cerebrolysin outside the fridge and used it the next day?
I have 10ml ampules, and after my shot this morning, I just left the second filled syringe (and capped needle attached) in a closet.
I've read a lot of people storing it in their fridge, though unfortunately I don't have any ziploc bags to put them in, moreover don't bacteria et al. get preserved in cold conditions?

I'd appreciate if anyone could shed some light on this before the tomorrow

I have no idea. I was going to do 2.5ml instead now... I will probably just use regular plastic bags untill I buy some zip-locks tomorrow, and put the other 2.5ml syringe and needle+cap in the fridge. I was thinking about buying some alcohol in a spray bottle to put all over the syringe and so on but that might be excessive...

I did a quick search and there are several people storing it in the fridge in some matter or another. I think the idea is to prevent germs from reproducing, which I'm sure happens in warmer temperatures for the most part.

My prediction is that you will survive if you inject it after 24h of room-temperature. I would put it in the fridge in some kind of semi-sterile container/bag.

why is nootropic.eu directing people to this site for more information about the drug?

Why would a legitimate pharmacy ever direct people to a message board to find out more about the effects of their drug?
I am taking a pass on Nootropic.eu

http://www.nootropic....am=cid=1&aid=1

Well they are legitimate as far as selling a product that is likely said substance.
Now how they get it might be another matter.

[Keizo]

I'm also still somewhat concerned about the counterfeit factor, and did a little bit of research on analytical methods. I think it might be worthwhile to send samples from multiple suppliers to someplace like Kendrick Labs for gel electrophoresis of the peptide fraction of Cere. (I doubt the injection of simple free amino acids is responsible for any effect.)

In particular, 1D slab gel electrophoresis with the low-molecular-weight peptide slab gel would probably be sufficient for comparing samples from multiple suppliers.

Though more costly, it would also be interesting to do actual mass spec analysis of the various peptides in Cerebrolysin...

If I had a decent income I'd do it myself right now....

[Keizo]

Just injected 2.5ml in each of my legs (vastus lateralis). Definitely a more awkward feeling when the needle is going in. Will be doing 2.5ml or 2.5+2.5 in this area in the future.

[NootropicEU]

why is nootropic.eu directing people to this site for more information about the drug?

Why would a legitimate pharmacy ever direct people to a message board to find out more about the effects of their drug?
I am taking a pass on Nootropic.eu

http://www.nootropic....am=cid=1&aid=1

fj929, I believe this thread has very extensive information about Cerebrolysin, user experiences and effects. "Official" information is available on our website. Majority of the members here buy Cerebrolysin from us.

[NootropicEU]

Well they are legitimate as far as selling a product that is likely said substance.
Now how they get it might be another matter.

We buy it in large quantities from a reputable pharmacy in Europe.

5GBP discounts are available for longecity members. Valid for 5 days, min shopping cart total 50GBP. Just enter voucher code LONGECITY

[lourdaud]

why is nootropic.eu directing people to this site for more information about the drug?

Why would a legitimate pharmacy ever direct people to a message board to find out more about the effects of their drug?
I am taking a pass on Nootropic.eu

http://www.nootropic....am=cid=1&aid=1

I can definitely vouch for nootropic.eu, got my goods a few days after placing my order.

[Sholrak]

why is nootropic.eu directing people to this site for more information about the drug?

Why would a legitimate pharmacy ever direct people to a message board to find out more about the effects of their drug?
I am taking a pass on Nootropic.eu

http://www.nootropic....am=cid=1&aid=1

I can definitely vouch for nootropic.eu, got my goods a few days after placing my order.

Advice to all readers: this is a good source. Probably the best. Stop arguing that.


(The bad thing is we have to repeat this page after page.)

Edited by Sholrak, 08 February 2014 - 03:05 AM.

[Sholrak]

I will start a new cycle of Cerebrolysin (100 ml. I hope) soon and this time I will make sure being engaged in mind/body demanding activities and vital changes.

I have finals in may and this will be a good way to measure its effectiveness in study aids (thing I didn't do last time or at least I wasn't studying so hard because I had much less to learn). I want to move to UK to work temporarily and learning english better. I wanna play an instrument and restart learning music. I never was any good drawing, or arts so I will try to explore the artist within me. I also wanna quit smoking definitely. I will be doing exercise after some years of true sedentarism, meditation... In conclussion, I'm preparing a non-stop environment, which I'm sure is the only way to get all Cerebrolysin's benefits. An scenario where you have 0% tranquility 100% duties/projects is ideal, that's how you will receive a 100% of Cerebrolysin potential.


I didn't do that in my first cycle (almost a year ago), and now I realize how much possible benefits I missed then. However, even If you don't make the effort to make things change and happen, Cere will still do some for you. But, of course, you can be achieving a third or less of what it's able to give you. I just seated and watched my depression, anxiety and traumas/fobias dilute, and to me, at those times, that was the best improving (incredible BTW) I could have, the best I could do. Now I realize I was wrong. But it's OK, I guess the first experience wih Cerebrolysin is new and we get fascinated by the effects. I remember asking myself why the effects could be felt only at times, now I understand the more things you do while on it, the better, and I wasn't doing anything "new" at all. Only after a while, you can see clearly how it worked. Now comes the real action :D

Edited by Sholrak, 08 February 2014 - 07:07 PM.

[Keizo]

I have begun developing a definite feeling of being able to do a bunch of things I never would have thought about before. And it seems that it's building, i.e. my anxieties are going away. Mostly I've been doing very little, so that's partly why I only do 2.5ml 4xweek now. I can say that I also experience the effects more when I actually do stuff. Although there is an overall improvement present in my cognition and anxiety level.

Today I got a bit unfocused after my injection. And I still am. But I think that is due to masturbation yesterday. it seems to be a trend, and possible low testosterone in general (I have not received lab results yet for this). Otherwise it likely is other symptoms of protracted benzo-withdrawal, and too little exercise and stretching.


Recently I have started to remember a lot of old things. Also have noticed I do not as easily fall into negative thoughts that repeat themselves.

Edited by Nume, 10 February 2014 - 05:41 PM.

[aarfai]

Just curious Sholrak, what mind/body demanding and vital activities will you be engaging in?

Edit: My apologizes, didn't fully read your post.

Edited by aarfai, 10 February 2014 - 05:17 PM.

[Keizo]

I think Cere is quite similar to Noopept actually. Only a more stable and more neutral format that takes time to develop, with more benefits as time goes on. Noopept has a few more obvious effects and tolerance build-up. For example both of them seem to increase my motor-skills, give a feeling of competence, and improve emotional and intellectual reasoning/experience. Cere might be more powerful even after the first injection but it might to be that the anti-anxiety effect is much stronger in Cere.

[Sholrak]

Well I decided to go with 5ml/day instead. Sometimes less is more and all that. I felt rebound anxiety coming up from the half-tablet Etizolam I took last night, and after the shot it subsided to normal levels.
I must have read this thread about 5 times top to bottom. I tend to forget things, and I certainly don't feel like reading it all again.

So I want to ask; has anyone stored Cerebrolysin outside the fridge and used it the next day?
I have 10ml ampules, and after my shot this morning, I just left the second filled syringe (and capped needle attached) in a closet.
I've read a lot of people storing it in their fridge, though unfortunately I don't have any ziploc bags to put them in, moreover don't bacteria et al. get preserved in cold conditions?

I'd appreciate if anyone could shed some light on this before the tomorrow

Zip-locks bags must be sold in supermarkets or charts in quantitys of 20 or more by 3-5 $ (In Europe ~3€). Also, how do you think it would be better leaving open on air than in fridge whitout a lock bag? Always store in the fridge. And in sealed bags. That will add the hermetic closure to the cold to prevent any issue of infection/allergic reaction.

There's all a ritual out there to perform with Cerebrolysin we have to design and accomplish carefully.
Don't cross it leaving some step undone, you know.

[medicineman]

anybody worried about developing antibodies to endogenous neurological growth factors?
like the axokine issue?

[Sholrak]

Axokine

Axokine is a modified version of human Ciliary neurotrophic factor with a 15 amino acid truncation of the C terminus and two amino acid substitutions, which is three to five times more potent than CNTF in in vitro and in vivo assays and has improved stability properties.^[6] Like CNTF it is a neurotrophic factor, and may stimulate nerve cells to survive. It was tested in the 1990s as a treatment for amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. It did not improve muscle control as much as expected, but trial participants did report a loss of appetite.
Phase III clinical trials for the drug against obesity were conducted in 2003 by Axokine's maker, Regeneron, demonstrating a small positive effect in some patients, but the drug was not commercialized. A major problem with the treatment was that in nearly 70% of the subjects tested, antibodies against Axokine were produced after approximately three months of treatment.^[7] In the minority of subjects who did not develop the antibodies, weight loss averaged 12.5 pounds in one year, versus 4.5 pounds for placebo-treated subjects. In order to obtain this benefit, subjects needed to receive daily subcutaneous injections of one microgram Axokine per kilogram body weight.
Xencor patent application raises the disturbing idea that subjects producing antibodies against CNTF analogues may eventually suffer severe side effects, as these antibodies could potentially interfere with the neuroprotective functions of endogenous CNTF.^[8] The application claims methods of designing CNTF analogues with lower immunogenicity than Axokine based on analysis of affinity of each modified epitope for each of 52 class II MHC alleles, and provides specific examples of such modifications. No such analogues are currently listed in Xencor's product pipeline.^[9]

That's an interesting question. I'm not worried about that. Axokin is a human CNTF with some therminals substituted.

But Cerebrolysin doesn't even contain NGF, BDNF, CNTF, GDNF itself. It's a mixture/cocktail of pig (most similar ADN creature with humans on Earth) brain's aminoacid, peptides and proteins. And those all growth factors are released in our brain as a response to the effect of Cerebrolysin in an unknown manner. So, there's no point to the comparison between Axokin and Cerebrolysin.

Plus, that say about 70% of patients showed CTNF antibodies in three months after Axokin. Don't you think we would have at least a 50% of bad-responders to Cere here if we had to tbe worried about that?

[telight]

Well they are legitimate as far as selling a product that is likely said substance.
Now how they get it might be another matter.

We buy it in large quantities from a reputable pharmacy in Europe.

5GBP discounts are available for longecity members. Valid for 5 days, min shopping cart total 50GBP. Just enter voucher code LONGECITY

How about a spring discount ? I need to restock.

[MenDis]

Does Cerebrolysin lower testosterone? Anecdotally I can say that it seemed to lower mine. A test a few weeks after I did 2.5ml/day for 5 days showed that my testosterone level was 391 ng/dl which is pretty low for someone in their mid twenties. A few years ago, it tested at 871 ng/dl. I tried to look into the mechanisms by which Cerebrolysin might do this. I have no formal training in neuroendocrinology, so if anyone has any insights or corrections to this analysis, I would appreciate it. My basic understanding of how neuroendocrinology works is this: The hypothalamus releases GnRH (mainly from the pre-optic area) into a blood vessel (the median eminence) that connects to the pituitary gland. GnRH stimulates the release of LH and FSH from pituitary gland, which travels through the blood to the testicles and stimulates the release of testosterone. I found this study, which states that Cerebrolysin contains constituents that activate and potentiate GABAA receptors [1]. In regards to the effect of GABAA receptor agonists on GnRH release, there seems to be complicated mechanisms involved, with the agonists causing GnRH release initially, but inhibiting release thereafter [2]. What does seem to be clear though is that "In vivo, there is an inverse relationship between preoptic GABA levels and LH release in rodents and sheep (35–37), and hypothalamic application of GABAA antagonists (38–40) increased LH release." [2] However, Cerebrolysin has also been found to contain NMDA agonists [1] and NMDA agonists seem to stimulate GnRH release [4]. So, it seems like there might be multiple mechanisms at work that have opposing effects.

Has anyone noticed a decrease in testosterone during or after taking Cerebrolysin? Perhaps if there are any of you who are planning on taking it, you could get a before and after testosterone blood test (or/and LH)? If you happen to live in the San Franscisco area you should be able to get your testosterone tested for just $17.75 [5].


Sources:
[1] http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8869271
[2] Activation of GABAAR Excites GnRH Neurons.pdf
[3] http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20807514
[4] http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/20573904
[5] http://www.theranos.com/

Edited by MenDis, 19 March 2014 - 02:49 AM.

[MenDis]

Attached is source [2]

Attached Files

•  Activation of GABAAR Excites GnRH Neurons.pdf   1.29MB   2 downloads

[Keizo]

I was going to test my testosterone levels before I started this, but it ended up being in the end of my 100ml injection programme. I got 16 nmol/Liter serum testosterone, which is about 460ng/dl. A bit low for my age (23). I will try and take another more complete test soon.
I can not say I feel worse in any way after cerebrolysin, quite the opposite. I still have some issues with fatigue which can be due some heart/pulmonary issues I am looking in to, testosterone, or some brain imbalance due to past benzodiazepine use. As well as mild pain & stiffness in joints and muscles which isn't anything new either....

Edited by Nume, 19 March 2014 - 11:56 AM.