2208 replies to this topic

[Blackkzeus]

How much stronger would you say Cerbreolysin is than Piracetam? I'm currently taking Piracetam with Alpha Gpc and I find it incredibly mentally stimulating. I'm much more creative, social, and confident. Are those things one experiences on Cerebrolysin? I've read some reports but none to in depth that have compared Cere to Piracetam. So, if anyone's tried both please do tell me how they stack up against each other. 

[Rior]

Let's say you were born into a poor family, with an average family annual income of maybe $28,000. This represents your initial thought capacity. With Piracetam? You've bumped up your annual salary to $60,000.  Pretty good, not bad. Now you use Cerebrolysin for a couple weeks. All of a sudden you're making $500,000.

 

Having tried both, as well as many many different racetams, that is the best comparison I can make. The absolute best days on Cerebrolysin don't hold a flame to an average day on Cerebrolysin (SPECIFICALLY, after you've been using it for longer than 12-13 days.)

 

Everyone's mileage will differ, everyone's reactions will be different. Some people even reported experiencing almost nothing on Cerebrolysin. For me, on the other hand, it was absolutely life changing. For its duration of use, as well as the entire following year (12 months) later.  I'm trying to get more right now, but after using my last vendor I'm fairly certain I got a subpar batch.  To that end, I also think the quality of your source is imperative in judging the benefits you'll receive from Cerebrolysin.  Unfortunately, other than a fully legitimate pharmacy in Vienna (that requires a prescription,) I cannot recommend any fully legitimate sources. If anyone else knows of a very good source worth using, please mention it here!

 

I used nootropic.eu in the past, and while their prices are fantastic, the experience I had with Cerebrolysin was not the same as what I had the first time. I can't say with certainty that this different experience is due to their product, it could after all be my own head. But, either way, I wanted to report my experience so others might know.  The first time I got it, it was from SuperHumanGear. That was about 2 years ago though, and with this much of a difference between then and now, I don't know the legitimacy of their company and can't fully recommend them based on how much time as passed. (Note, this doesn't at all mean I'm implying they have bad stuff. I'm just saying I can't recommend them, due to my lack of any recent experience with them.)

[Candidatus]

@Rior

 

Would be interesting to know on what measures is your "income comparison" based?

 

From my experience, Cerebrolysin can at it's best double productivity/learning ease/motivation or whatever else but making you 20x better in any area is way off (in my experience).

[Fenix_]

To anyone who has used cerebrolysin: Do you administer your own shots? The needle is large and must go like 2 inches into muscle correct? I might need to find somebody to help me with that in person. Also does cerebrolysin ship with the needles already and if not are they difficult to source? (USA) I really want to try the ultimate nootropic and the consensus seems to point overwhelmingly to big bad cerebrolysin! I hope that a week long cycle would be enough for the effects to last a while.

[Keizo]

To anyone who has used cerebrolysin: Do you administer your own shots? The needle is large and must go like 2 inches into muscle correct? I might need to find somebody to help me with that in person. Also does cerebrolysin ship with the needles already and if not are they difficult to source? (USA) I really want to try the ultimate nootropic and the consensus seems to point overwhelmingly to big bad cerebrolysin! I hope that a week long cycle would be enough for the effects to last a while.

Yes. I use 7/8'' (27g) needles for vastus lateralis injection, 1'' (25g) for dorsal glutes (more fat in the way)... I don't have much body fat, so I find this (smaller needles) optimal since the content is very fluid.

I imagine you can buy needles & syringes and so on on ebay or at pharmacies. I have done so at ebay (in the past not legal to buy in Sweden). I think 1.5 or 2 inches is only recommended for fat people.

You should also get alcohol gel and alcohol swabs.

The routine is fairly simple:

Wash hands, bring all things on table. 

Use alcohol gel on hands. 

Put needle on syringe. 

Break the ampule (you can use alcohol swab to disinfect and to shield fingers from the glass when opening). 

Suck the content into the syringe.

Put the plastic cap back on the needle (not recommended if you will inject with it)

Use alcohol swab on injection area. 

Replace the needle with a new one (not necessary, just to ensure sharpness and avoid possible glass stuck on it).

Tap the syringe and press out all the air. 

Insert needle, aspirate (pull plunger back so it moves a little, ensure no blood enters), inject.

 

basic overview http://www.bd.com/hy..._Guidelines.pdf It can feel a bit confusing at first, but really the vastus lateralis for example is very hard to miss.

 

As far as motivation or feelings of competency and so on, I think Piracetam or various stimulants would be more effective. I suspect a lot of what is at the surface of experience isn't necessarily all that important. Whereas Cerebrolysin might produce effects that might be very substantive, but you may notice in hindsight instead of immediately. (In my experience with the exception of my Benzo paws)

I haven't tried racetams but noopept, and that was in some ways more of an experience than Cerebrolysin.  The way I experienced sound/music and to some extent colors, and felt somewhat more competent and whatnot.

Edited by Keizo, 20 December 2014 - 02:20 PM.

[Keizo]

I meant to write 0.75'' or 19mm length 27g needle

Edited by Keizo, 20 December 2014 - 02:56 PM.

[JASOG888]

To anyone who has used cerebrolysin: Do you administer your own shots? The needle is large and must go like 2 inches into muscle correct? I might need to find somebody to help me with that in person. Also does cerebrolysin ship with the needles already and if not are they difficult to source? (USA) I really want to try the ultimate nootropic and the consensus seems to point overwhelmingly to big bad cerebrolysin! I hope that a week long cycle would be enough for the effects to last a while.

 

 I use 1" 25G with a 10ml syringe, vastus lateralis. I administer it myself. It was a little scary the first few times, and I still do not look forward to it. I would not buy them off ebay because of price, but as a last resort only. Cerebrolysin, in my experience, does not come with needles. I have previously purchased from Superhuman gear(once), and nootropic.eu. I prefer nootropic.eu. I usually receive my purchase in about 10 days. Cerebrolysin is my favorite supplement. I have probably run 7 or so 1 month cycles, and I will continue to use it as long as I can.

[Fenix_]

How do you avoid hitting a nerve? And do you push the 1" needle all the way in to the vastus lateralis? I went ahead and ordered 5x10mL ampoules, and 5mL syringes (will use 2 injections per dose) with 1.5" needles last night. I guess I just won't press them in all the way if I don't need to. Wow I feel nervous lol and excited too.

Edited by Fenix_, 20 December 2014 - 11:45 PM.

[JASOG888]

I insert the needle very slowly until it's all the way in. I have had muscle twitching a few times. The first time was scary. I do not like needles, and it takes a bit of concentration to perform the injection. When I experience nerve "pain", or whatever it is, I stop inserting the needle, relax, and wait for the discomfort to pass before continuing the insertion. I do not aspirate. I would not have continued to use Cerebrolysin because of the injections, but the benefit is well worth it for me. My injection technique may not be the best, but it works for me. I am concerned with sterility and always use a new needle for filling the new syringe and another new one for the injection, along with good injection site prep using a disposable alcohol pad.

[Flex]

If the injection hurts too much, then switch to another site, arround 0.5cm beside to it.

[Fenix_]

Well I went ahead and ordered some 1" needles to make the injections easier on myself. I do not plan on using a filter since it does not even seem like common practice in the medical field. I am wondering if I should let the solution settle for a bit after I break the ampoule so that any possible glass can settle to the bottom, or is that a bad idea because of increased exposure time (infection risk)?

[JASOG888]

I immediately draw the solution into the syringe for exactly the reason you mentioned. I'm not sure how much of a risk there is in waiting, but I am less concerned about the glass.

[Flex]

I would say, You dont have to panic.

Just try to avoid to make this all in a drafty room and dont cough or sneeze in the direction.

So just try to avoid that any contaminant goes into the solution.

 

Heres a clip about how to do it

http://www.longecity...-34#entry553413

 

[tritium]

X-post from part of this in response to Adderall supplementation requests: (http://www.longecity...er/#entry682842)

 

"- P21 -- A surprisingly useful tool recently added to my toolbox. Added an incredible ease of fluid thinking, if simply through accessible energy and capacity to manage attention and thus increased working memory. 125-250mcg provided ever-so-slight energy and noticeable awareness and lucidity for 3-6 hours on its own and with Adderall. 500-750mcg was fine without Adderall. More than that increased the effects but resulted in the slightest urge to take a nap after more of the positive effects above. At 1.5mg the effects seemed to result in diminishing returns in positive effects with a more pronounced sense of wanting to take a pleasant nap. Induced remarkably vivid memories of dreams the night before, and in particular involved becoming lucid, turning a neutral dream into positive, controlled one, and then waking myself up consciously feeling warm, calm energy. It seemed to be easier to store and retrieve complex information (bio, chem, calc). I've only tried it for 5 days and am taking a short break, as that is the protocol for Cerebrolysin, of which it is apparently a highly-active component peptide."

 

So far, I've been loving it. I must say that the first day off after 5 days on was remarkably vivid. I wrote that post, went to class, performed a lab experiment in more breadth and depth than usual in less time than allotted and expected, went out that night, made a lot of new friends, and ended up partying late into the night with one of them. I was in the zone. Actually, now that I think about it, even on day 2 last weekend at a party I was in the zone -- I went to a party and met an incredible woman and sparks flew like I haven't remembered in a while. The whole time I was socializing and meeting everyone there. This is after a few weeks of kind of being a shut-in doing research and work (well, and surfing), after which I usually take a few social events to "warm up" to my usual extroversion. This is day 2 off and I feel a little sharper than normal even though I haven't had any kind of supplement over the last 2 days besides my daily multivitamin and activated B-complex with methyltetrahydrofolate (Thorne Methyl-Guard) to support my MTHFR C677T & MTRR A644A +/- mutations, implicated in impaired processing of folic acid to the above in the methylation cycle (viz. snp rs1801133 & rs1802059 and/or http://www.heartfixe...trigenomics.htm for details -- I found this out using 23andme & geneticgenie.com/nutrahacker.com). I'm resuming protocol today for another 5 days as this is my first week in 5d on/ 2d off to mimic Cerebrolysin's recommended protocol for 4-6 weeks.

 

Ceretropic's Paul a.k.a MisterYouAreSoDumb and Jason a.k.a. Guacamolium on reddit have posted about P21 here: 

http://www.reddit.co...t_its_supposed/

 

They are both very knowledgeable and accessible via Ceretropic's contact info at the site. I've had short conversations with Paul regarding Selank and P21 since I started ordering from them a couple weeks ago and he's been incredibly helpful and responsive. It's really exciting to potentially get some of the benefits of Cerebrolysin with only subcutaneous injections (which I am comfortable with as they are easy, safe, and performed by diabetics everywhere daily) rather than intramuscular injections (which I don't want to perform without proper equipment -- which I will do in the upcoming months). They seem to be initially working with about 1mg dosages similar to Semax, but Paul is considering slightly increasing that to 1.5mg in his private experiments. I've been working with 0.5mg-1.mg, but I like small increments of 0.125-0.250mg as I do not feel any "napogenic" effects (as Jason humorously described them) a few hours later at that dosage. 

 

EDIT: I'd also like to point out another anecdote in hindsight: I had never had the drive/impulse/what-have-you with that perfect combination of creative flow of prose, intellectual analysis, and memory of studied research at the same time to synthesize these sorts of posts until day 4 of my first week of P21 tests. It does overlap with week 4 of my noopept tests, but I haven't been taking it with regularity as I only like to take it when I'm going to be working alone all day and not have to entertain distractions. I think that it's a remarkable coincidence worth noting. It's not only that I don't feel any writer's block or too distracted to consistently focus, but that I fluidly and spontaneously did so when I opened longecity -- which I have been doing for the last few months consistently, and for many, many years on and off beforehand.

 

How did you reconstitute it and to what concentration of solute/water? 

$($);

Edited by tritium, 29 December 2014 - 07:16 PM.

[matter_of_time]

I think Cerebrolysin is by far the best nootropic I have ever used, that is why I decided to give P21 a shot.

I made myself a P21 nasal spray. (I bought the P21 from ceretropic)

 

I have used it now for four days and I can say this compound might be a little different from Cerebrolysin but I think it could be as good.

P21 is more subtle and it have to built up for a few days.

 

P21 is probably the cleanest nootropic I have ever used, there is absolutely no adverse effect. 

If I would have to describe it:
- it reduces stress
- it gives more meaning and joy to life from the little things
- little antidepressant feeling
- I feel more youthful

- it motivates to do things better

 

I started more or less meditating again just because of feel like to do it and I think it is motivator for going to the gym as well.

Because I am not working or studying due Christmas holiday I really have no idea at the moment what it does for mental performance.
 

I drank two beers this evening and I really could feel the alcohol in positive and relaxed way I have never felt from two beers. I do not know if this is a good thing, because this means that it might reduce tolerance.

 

I will give an update a few weeks later, I am planning to use it for three months and see how this goes.

The questions I have:
- does it stay effective over time?
- do I need to cycle this?
​- what could be the downside of longterm use?

 

[Rior]

I think Cerebrolysin is by far the best nootropic I have ever used, that is why I decided to give P21 a shot.

I made myself a P21 nasal spray. (I bought the P21 from ceretropic)

 

I have used it now for four days and I can say this compound might be a little different from Cerebrolysin but I think it could be as good.

P21 is more subtle and it have to built up for a few days.

 

P21 is probably the cleanest nootropic I have ever used, there is absolutely no adverse effect. 

If I would have to describe it:
- it reduces stress
- it gives more meaning and joy to life from the little things
- little antidepressant feeling
- I feel more youthful

- it motivates to do things better

 

I started more or less meditating again just because of feel like to do it and I think it is motivator for going to the gym as well.

Because I am not working or studying due Christmas holiday I really have no idea at the moment what it does for mental performance.
 

I drank two beers this evening and I really could feel the alcohol in positive and relaxed way I have never felt from two beers. I do not know if this is a good thing, because this means that it might reduce tolerance.

 

I will give an update a few weeks later, I am planning to use it for three months and see how this goes.

The questions I have:
- does it stay effective over time?
- do I need to cycle this?
​- what could be the downside of longterm use?

 

Do you prefer P21 over Cerebrolysin?

[matter_of_time]

For me the injections are not a problem.
I think that I can't really say what I prefer after 4 days. At this moment they are comparable but different.

P21 might be stronger in the repairing the brain. Cerebrolysin makes you feel good immediatelly.

In stress reduction they are comparable.

[Maxpower]

For me the injections are not a problem.
I think that I can't really say what I prefer after 4 days. At this moment they are comparable but different.

P21 might be stronger in the repairing the brain. Cerebrolysin makes you feel good immediatelly.

In stress reduction they are comparable.

 

I would like to know how the 2 compare with improving mental performance.

 

Cerebrolysin appears to have positive effects for up to a year after a good cycle, I wonder if effects last for extended periods after a good cycle of P21?

[matter_of_time]

I wont do many mental taks before new year, so this will be hard to tell. I have done a few cycles of Cerebrolysin but I do not know if the positive effects are felt after a year. Maybe it made some permanent changes to the brain.

I am planning to take P21 for at least three months, so you will have to wait for at least four months. P21 seems to be pretty popular, I do not understand there aren't more people talking about this here.

 

I can say it motivates in the same way like Cerebrolysin does. Sleep seems to be improved. Stress is gone. So far so good.
 

[tritium]

^ How much P21 powder and how much water did you use when mixing your nasal spray?

Edited by tritium, 30 December 2014 - 06:48 AM.

[Babychris]

Is it "normal" that my cerebrolysin has a strong food odor ? Like real pork lol

[Keizo]

Is it "normal" that my cerebrolysin has a strong food odor ? Like real pork lol

My sense of smell isn't great, but yes it smells a bit like pork.

[matter_of_time]

 

Is it "normal" that my cerebrolysin has a strong food odor ? Like real pork lol

My sense of smell isn't great, but yes it smells a bit like pork.

 

 

Yes this is the normall smell. 

 

I have tried the nasal route as well and the smell is one of the reason I did not like it.

And I think it isn't effective.

^ How much P21 powder and how much water did you use when mixing your nasal spray?

 

I added 20 ml to the P21 powder.

[Babychris]

Don't know about P21 but for the moment cerebrolysin is not effective for me... But it's too soon to be sure

[Babychris]

Be very carefull, IM seems easy, as one day you experience a very painfull injection. Like 2 days ago I made maybe the mistake to inject in my vastus lateralis a bit too low in the muscle with a poor angle and immediatly I feel like my leg would be quite a bit paralysed. I was not mistaked. As tiime was going, it felt like I have been stabbed into the leg (particularly when I mobilise this muscle) but the more difficult is for walking. Tonight it's new year eve and that's really annoying..

[ceridwen]

Where can one buy P21?

[OpaqueMind]

http://www.ceretropi...m/p21-solution/

[NootropicEU]

Some detailed info about Cerebrolysin: Cerebrolysin Monograph

 

Just to let you know, we are doing a promotional offer for longecity members again. If you buy 4 boxes of Cerebrolysin you will get 1 free. Valid for 5 days only. Please mention LONGECITYJANUARY with your order at nootropic.eu

Edited by NootropicEU, 19 January 2015 - 07:52 AM.

[barbelith42]

 

<quote removed for brevity>

 

How did you reconstitute it and to what concentration of solute/water? 

$($);

 

 

I have kept a supply of P21 since August 2014 when it was introduced (AFAIK) at Ceretropic. I order it and the bacteriostatic water they supply for about $5 USD -- 30mL, for injection, sterile, nonpyrogenic, contains 0.9% benzyl alcohol. I usually get the 100mg P21 and add 2mL of bacstat H2O with a 1mL U-100 insulin syringe ordered from AllegroMedical. BD is the "expensive" brand but EasyTouch works for me -- stick to 31g or 29g for less painful injections, in fact, I'd recommend the 31g (higher is smaller). They are a little shorter so unless you have a lot of adipose tissue it shouldn't be a problem. A U-100 syringe has 100 tick marks on it so 1 tick of a 1mL = 0.01mL and 1mL is just a full syringe of bac.stat. H2O. Here's the math on my reconstitution: 100mg P21 = 100,000mcg P21; 4 mL H2O = 400 ticks; 100,000mcg P21 / 400 ticks = 250mcg P21 / tick. So each tick is 0.250 mg P21, and 4 ticks is 1mg P21. If you only put 1mL H2O into 100mg P21, you'd have 1mg/tick. For the 50mg P21 you get half the amount. I usually have 0.750mg - 1.500mg per dose, usually 1 per day but if I have one early in the AM I'll have a second between lunch and sunset if I'm going to work late. Hope that helps. This is far and away my favorite nootropic. Semax and phenylpiracetam are also great but they're much more forceful in their action and cannot be sustained at peak effectiveness -- for me, anyways. I don't have that 'napogenic' feeling anymore now that I know my dosing. It's just clear, calm, focused, effortless motivation and subtle enthusiasm to learn and work, or just relax if I want to. The difference is that I have that choice rather than feeling like I need a cup of coffee to clear my head. I actually realize that I haven't had a cup of coffee in two months, and after the caffeine withdrawal I haven't noticed myself missing it. 

[barbelith42]

"...

P21 is more subtle and it have to built up for a few days.

 

P21 is probably the cleanest nootropic I have ever used, there is absolutely no adverse effect. 

If I would have to describe it:
- it reduces stress
- it gives more meaning and joy to life from the little things
- little antidepressant feeling
- I feel more youthful

- it motivates to do things better

...

I drank two beers this evening and I really could feel the alcohol in positive and relaxed way I have never felt from two beers. I do not know if this is a good thing, because this means that it might reduce tolerance.

...

I will give an update a few weeks later, I am planning to use it for three months and see how this goes.

The questions I have:
- does it stay effective over time?
- do I need to cycle this?
​- what could be the downside of longterm use?"

 

I agree, it does build up in cognitive effect over a few days. I usually load 2-3 days over a weekend before work or classes start. There is always a subjective positive effect, but that ever so slightly diminishes 10-20% at most if for no other reason that being used to it. After about 2 months straight of having ~2mg/day I noticed it settled to a consistent effect even when I stopped taking it after 3 months (12 weeks) of consistent dosing. I took a break over the holidays for a month and it's working like the first time I took it again. I think around 4-6 weeks it hits a perfect point in its bell curve of effectiveness, which is consistent with the dosing protocols for Cerebrolysin. However from my experience I believe you could take it every day without negative effects. I have found that at that point -- and datbtrue echoed this sentiment about Cerebrolysin -- that every other day dosage works fine but keeps that "first time" subjective effect, maybe even every 3 days. It might be a good idea to give yourself some time off now and then if just to allow your BDNF levels to fall back to endogenous homeostatic levels. The only other concern that I am aware of in my moderately educated layman's perspective is CNTF and TrkB reactivity -- could these be reduced? From my experience, however, I maintained a higher level of learning capacity and interest to pursue it even when I wasn't taking any medication/nootropics/classes during the last month and a half. Now that I am starting again in preparation for the new semester, I feel that I have even more of those again. I feel like it helps me learn more effectively -- on, and again still post-cycle -- and that's just priceless to me. Semax does have a bit of that effect, but it's more immediately motivational and has a slight but noticeable tiredness that sets in at the end of the day, and I believe that I build a tolerance to it over time, or at least my body seems to become a bit more stressed and stops responding to it. Phenylpiracetam, for comparison, is more stimulating, and has a noticeable end-of-effectiveness period, but definitely develops a temporary tolerance. I can continue dosing Semax and gain its effect, but I'm not sure I'd want to. P21, however, simply enhances my normal capabilities as well as puts me at ease in doing so. It's by far the most subtle and sustainable, and that makes it the best, in my opinion.