This topic is locked
FYI, the newer ampoules that I got have "Cerebrolysin", "Ebewe", and a little brain logo printed directly on the ampoule, underneath the label.
LongeCityAdvocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans
19 votes
Cerebrolysin
Started by
NootropicEU
, Mar 04 2009 01:42 PM
2208 replies to this topic
#152
-
- Guest
- 66 posts
- 7 ₮
- Location:Washington
Posted 19 November 2009 - 09:42 AM
I thought I would post some of the effects I noticed since I took my last dose of 10mL on Friday last week.
My dosing schedule was not regular but went something like this:
week 1:Fri 5mL
Wed 9mL, Fri 9.5mL
Mon 5mL, Wed 4mL, Fri 10mL
So I took about 45mL in two weeks.
The 10mL days were noticably different than the 5mL days.
The most distinct effect was how much it increased my productivity. Subjectively I might attribute the difference in feeling between the previous 2 weeks and this week to circumstances rather than the cerebrolysin, however, I think looking at it subjectivley is useless. Objectivley, the fact is that I probably had two of the most productive days of my life while I was taking the cerebrolysin, I belive 1 day was when I took 9.5 and the other was the day after that, and in fact that entire week was very productive. During that day, I thought that maybe this was just me reaching a turning point in my time management because I had had some insights into time management the previous day while reading a book, however now that I have some prespective, it seems that the difference was not the insight, I have had many insights about time management before but it had never changed my behavior significantly, but it was the feeling and effects of the cerebrolysin.
On that day that I considered the most productive I wrote a to do list and finished probably 23 out of 25 things, only skipping a few things I decided were not neccessary, and the next day was similar. That was amazing because there were many, varied things on that list which normally I would not be able to shift gears and do these different things. Normally what would happen when I would write a to do list is I would either give up on it after a couple hours of not really finishing anything, or I would finish a few things and then get into a overly pleased state and would waste the rest of the day. However, on cerebrolysin I do not think this ever happened which is amazing. Instead I would just keep doing things and if I finished everything I wrote down, my first thought would be "what else can I do?" Normally, if I finished everything I wrote down (don't know if that has ever happened), I would feel exhausted and just want to surf the internet or watch tv.
On one of the days I had been doing things for about 10 hours straight and still felt completely energized.
I would say that after taking it a few times the effect was to the point of being as effective as a 200mg caffine pill, as far as increasing my activity, except it seemed that unlike with caffine, that activity was being directed toward completing the things I wanted to comlpete with focus and efficiency, wheras with caffine I might be highly active, but doing something I don't need to do.
Only negitive I can think of is that it increased my OCD almost as much as caffine does.
Overall, I am very interested in getting some more. Does anyone know of a research article which mentions in the materials or procedures section that they used some cerebrolysin from a chinese manufacturer? I would like to see if the effects with the chinese cerebrolysin are the same or similar to real cerebrolysin because from what I have seen the chinese cerebrolysin is much cheaper. It cant be that hard to make if they have been making it for 40 years, and they don't even know what is in it, and don't understand how it works, meaning they must have simply stumbled into it, when applying some basic procedures to pig brains.
My dosing schedule was not regular but went something like this:
week 1:Fri 5mL
Wed 9mL, Fri 9.5mL
Mon 5mL, Wed 4mL, Fri 10mL
So I took about 45mL in two weeks.
The 10mL days were noticably different than the 5mL days.
The most distinct effect was how much it increased my productivity. Subjectively I might attribute the difference in feeling between the previous 2 weeks and this week to circumstances rather than the cerebrolysin, however, I think looking at it subjectivley is useless. Objectivley, the fact is that I probably had two of the most productive days of my life while I was taking the cerebrolysin, I belive 1 day was when I took 9.5 and the other was the day after that, and in fact that entire week was very productive. During that day, I thought that maybe this was just me reaching a turning point in my time management because I had had some insights into time management the previous day while reading a book, however now that I have some prespective, it seems that the difference was not the insight, I have had many insights about time management before but it had never changed my behavior significantly, but it was the feeling and effects of the cerebrolysin.
On that day that I considered the most productive I wrote a to do list and finished probably 23 out of 25 things, only skipping a few things I decided were not neccessary, and the next day was similar. That was amazing because there were many, varied things on that list which normally I would not be able to shift gears and do these different things. Normally what would happen when I would write a to do list is I would either give up on it after a couple hours of not really finishing anything, or I would finish a few things and then get into a overly pleased state and would waste the rest of the day. However, on cerebrolysin I do not think this ever happened which is amazing. Instead I would just keep doing things and if I finished everything I wrote down, my first thought would be "what else can I do?" Normally, if I finished everything I wrote down (don't know if that has ever happened), I would feel exhausted and just want to surf the internet or watch tv.
On one of the days I had been doing things for about 10 hours straight and still felt completely energized.
I would say that after taking it a few times the effect was to the point of being as effective as a 200mg caffine pill, as far as increasing my activity, except it seemed that unlike with caffine, that activity was being directed toward completing the things I wanted to comlpete with focus and efficiency, wheras with caffine I might be highly active, but doing something I don't need to do.
Only negitive I can think of is that it increased my OCD almost as much as caffine does.
Overall, I am very interested in getting some more. Does anyone know of a research article which mentions in the materials or procedures section that they used some cerebrolysin from a chinese manufacturer? I would like to see if the effects with the chinese cerebrolysin are the same or similar to real cerebrolysin because from what I have seen the chinese cerebrolysin is much cheaper. It cant be that hard to make if they have been making it for 40 years, and they don't even know what is in it, and don't understand how it works, meaning they must have simply stumbled into it, when applying some basic procedures to pig brains.
#153
-
- Guest
- 87 posts
- 43 ₮
Posted 19 November 2009 - 10:15 AM
Thanks for the update, 2150. I've dosed 5mL/day for the past 17 days, and I have a hard time positively attributing any effect to CL. It's possible there is an effect -- slighly less brain fog, better clarity, etc. -- but it is not a night-and-day difference. I am definitely not any more motivated to do the things that I don't want to do, and definitely still prone to a hangover after a night of heavy drinking. 
I will note that I weigh about 110kg, so I'm probably dosing on the low end of the scale.
I have ordered some more, and will try 10mL at some point after it gets in.
I do have copies of some of the old (1970's) articles in German and Russian; I don't read either, but if someone who does wants to take a look to see if they reveal anything about the manufacturing process, I'm happy to forward them on.
I will note that I weigh about 110kg, so I'm probably dosing on the low end of the scale.
I have ordered some more, and will try 10mL at some point after it gets in.
I do have copies of some of the old (1970's) articles in German and Russian; I don't read either, but if someone who does wants to take a look to see if they reveal anything about the manufacturing process, I'm happy to forward them on.
#154
-
- Guest, Moderator
- 2,444 posts
- 801 ₮
- Location:New England
- ✔
Posted 20 November 2009 - 02:30 AM
Excellent thread. Many thanks to those who tried cerebrolysin and wrote up their experiences. I'm extremely interested in testing this substance, but probably won't have the funds for a couple of months.
What I find interesting: even though one of the primary actions is supposedly increasing synaptic response in the part of the brain responsible for imprinting memories, and this is marketed as a memory drug, not one of the experience reports here mentioned any effect on memory. The common elements seem to be a calm/confident reaction to stress, increased focus/lucidity, mood elevation, and possibly slight sensory enhancement.
Not that I'm complaining, I find the prospect of general cognitive enhancement more exciting than memory alone.
To anyone doing trials (particularly russianbear): can you comment on memory effects? Can you tell if it increases working memory (remember long/multiple numbers, reading comprehension) or longer-term recall? More detailed memory of experiences, visual or verbal?
Since it seems very likely to be relevant to attentional difficulties, I'm wondering also about improved motivation (2150 mentioned this)—ease or compulsion in performing difficult or mundane tasks, and ability to sustain attention?
What I find interesting: even though one of the primary actions is supposedly increasing synaptic response in the part of the brain responsible for imprinting memories, and this is marketed as a memory drug, not one of the experience reports here mentioned any effect on memory. The common elements seem to be a calm/confident reaction to stress, increased focus/lucidity, mood elevation, and possibly slight sensory enhancement.
Not that I'm complaining, I find the prospect of general cognitive enhancement more exciting than memory alone.
To anyone doing trials (particularly russianbear): can you comment on memory effects? Can you tell if it increases working memory (remember long/multiple numbers, reading comprehension) or longer-term recall? More detailed memory of experiences, visual or verbal?
Since it seems very likely to be relevant to attentional difficulties, I'm wondering also about improved motivation (2150 mentioned this)—ease or compulsion in performing difficult or mundane tasks, and ability to sustain attention?
Edited by chrono, 20 November 2009 - 02:35 AM.
#155
-
- Guest
- 87 posts
- 43 ₮
Posted 20 November 2009 - 07:18 AM
I haven't noticed a significant improvement in the quantity of what I can remember or the facility with which I pick up new material, but I do seem to have slightly more facility with remembering/using/crystallizing/connecting/applying the information that I do have.
#156
-
- Guest, Moderator
- 2,444 posts
- 801 ₮
- Location:New England
- ✔
Posted 20 November 2009 - 02:38 PM
I haven't noticed a significant improvement in the quantity of what I can remember or the facility with which I pick up new material, but I do seem to have slightly more facility with remembering/using/crystallizing/connecting/applying the information that I do have.
Very informative! Looking back on my notes, TophetLOL mentioned this a few posts ago in the context of suddenly recognizing people as being from his distant past (sorry, didn't mean to discount your report...it's been a long, foggy week of Piracetam dosage experimentation
). When I posted my question above I was wondering specifically if memories imprinted under Cerebrolysin usage had an easier recall/distinct character at a later time. But easier recall of "normal" memories, even distant ones ostensibly forgotten, is probably even more useful.
Wish I knew more about the physiological mechanisms of memory so I could make guesses as to what this says about the drug's action, and other effected behaviors.
Edited by chrono, 20 November 2009 - 02:48 PM.
#157
-
- Guest, Moderator
- 2,444 posts
- 801 ₮
- Location:New England
- ✔
Posted 21 November 2009 - 01:13 AM
Cerebrolysin composition
There was some question waay back in this thread about what exactly comprises this substance. Here's a few details.
This patent describes a new use for the established drug Cerebrolysin, "intended for prophylaxis or treatment of dementia on the basis of the new findings that this known product has activities to increase acetylcholine, a nerve transmission substance, and to grow neuroaxon." The remainder of the patent details cell research process and findings.
Patent EP0452299: Method and composition for stimulating the growth of nerve processes.
Published 10-16-1991
Applicant: Ebewe Arzneimittel
(No help here with the peptide composition. That research is still ongoing this year.)
With a few words about administration:
Will post some details of the production process after I've done some more reference work this weekend.
There was some question waay back in this thread about what exactly comprises this substance. Here's a few details.
This patent describes a new use for the established drug Cerebrolysin, "intended for prophylaxis or treatment of dementia on the basis of the new findings that this known product has activities to increase acetylcholine, a nerve transmission substance, and to grow neuroaxon." The remainder of the patent details cell research process and findings.
Patent EP0452299: Method and composition for stimulating the growth of nerve processes.
Published 10-16-1991
Applicant: Ebewe Arzneimittel
The mixture of peptides and amino acids in the present invention contains approximately 5% of peptides with a molecular weight of 10,000 or less and approximately 85% of free amino acid...
The bioactive substance used in the present invention which is obtained from enzymatic hydrolysis of swine brain protein fraction is available from the applicants under the trade name Cerebrolysin. Each ml of this drug contains 3.00mg of alanine, 0.25mg of arginine, 3.00mg of asparaginic acid, 0.06g of cystine, 4.30mg of glutaminic acid, 1.50mg of glycine, 1.30mg of histidine, 2.00mg of isoleucine, 6.00mg of leucine, 0.50mg of methionine, 2.00mg of phenylalanine, 2.00mg of proline, 0.30g of serine, 0.30g of threonine, 0.50g of tryptophane and 2.00mg of thyrosine as amino acids as well as peptides having a molecular weight of 10,000 or less...
(No help here with the peptide composition. That research is still ongoing this year.)
With a few words about administration:
…through administration routes easy for clinical applications, i.e. intravenous, oral, intramuscular or subcutaneous routes...
This drug can be formulated in the manner of being injected as such intravenously at an amount of 1-30ml, or being dripped along with a physiological saline solution or a glucose solution, or being injected intramuscularly at an amount of 1-5ml.
Will post some details of the production process after I've done some more reference work this weekend.
#158
-
- Guest
- 87 posts
- 43 ₮
Posted 21 November 2009 - 06:57 PM
Each ml of this drug contains 3.00mg of alanine, 0.25mg of arginine, 3.00mg of asparaginic acid, 0.06g of cystine, 4.30mg of glutaminic acid, 1.50mg of glycine, 1.30mg of histidine, 2.00mg of isoleucine, 6.00mg of leucine, 0.50mg of methionine, 2.00mg of phenylalanine, 2.00mg of proline, 0.30g of serine, 0.30g of threonine, 0.50g of tryptophane and 2.00mg of thyrosine as amino acids as well as peptides having a molecular weight of 10,000 or less...
Looks like they got a few units wrong, unless they figured out how to supersaturate amino acids.
Unrelated: The cebrium.com site now links to "EVER Neuro Pharma GmbH (formerly registered as EBEWE Neuro Pharma GmbH) of Austria"
Edited by trevyn, 21 November 2009 - 07:01 PM.
#159
-
- Guest
- 87 posts
- 43 ₮
Posted 25 November 2009 - 09:10 AM
Update: Took 5 mL/day for 20 days, then ran out. 
Today is my third day with no CL. There's no obvious crash, but I'm starting to feel a little less "on point", and am definitely eager to get my restock package so that I can continue.
In retrospect, I seem to have been making more "life decisions" than usual these past three weeks, moving forward the things that will get me to where I want to be.
Today is my third day with no CL. There's no obvious crash, but I'm starting to feel a little less "on point", and am definitely eager to get my restock package so that I can continue.In retrospect, I seem to have been making more "life decisions" than usual these past three weeks, moving forward the things that will get me to where I want to be.
Edited by trevyn, 25 November 2009 - 09:10 AM.
#160
-
- Guest
- 313 posts
- 7 ₮
- Location:Europe
Posted 29 November 2009 - 11:30 PM
Thanks for the update!
And keep us posted!
When do you expect your new supply?
Cheers
Alex
And keep us posted!
When do you expect your new supply?
Cheers
Alex
Update: Took 5 mL/day for 20 days, then ran out.
Today is my third day with no CL. There's no obvious crash, but I'm starting to feel a little less "on point", and am definitely eager to get my restock package so that I can continue.
In retrospect, I seem to have been making more "life decisions" than usual these past three weeks, moving forward the things that will get me to where I want to be.
#162
-
- Guest
- 11 posts
- 1 ₮
- Location:Chapala, Jalisco
Posted 01 December 2009 - 08:29 PM
I am very sorry to not have replied to your question sooner, but I am not familiar with this forum and I just saw your question today.
My Husband has read many studies and comparisons but his experience here in the office is what he relies on most. Based on those experiences it is very clear that IV infusions (5ml Cerebrolysin in 250 ml Hartman sol, 40-50 drops per min) are much more effective than IM injections. A large portion of our patients are North Americans who live in Mexico part time. They recieve the IV infusions while they are in Mexico and Give themselves IM injections when they are in the states.
My Husband has read many studies and comparisons but his experience here in the office is what he relies on most. Based on those experiences it is very clear that IV infusions (5ml Cerebrolysin in 250 ml Hartman sol, 40-50 drops per min) are much more effective than IM injections. A large portion of our patients are North Americans who live in Mexico part time. They recieve the IV infusions while they are in Mexico and Give themselves IM injections when they are in the states.
#163
-
- Guest
- 135 posts
- -8 ₮
Posted 02 December 2009 - 09:39 AM
Can someone explain what the following is about.
Titre du document / Document title
Reductions in qEEG slowing over 1 year and after treatment with Cerebrolysin in patients with moderate-severe traumatic brain injury
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
ALVAREZ X. Anton ; SAMPEDRO Carolina ; FIGUEROA Jesus ; TELLADO Ivan ; GONZALEZ Andrés ; GARCIA-FANTINI Manuel ; CACABELOS Ramon ; MURESANU Dafin ; MOESSLER Herbert ;
Résumé / Abstract
Changes in quantitative EEG (qEEG) recordings over a 1-year period and the effects of Cerebrolysin (Cere) on qEEG slowing and cognitive performance were investigated in postacute moderate-severe traumatic brain injury (TBI) patients. Time-related changes in qEEG activity frequency bands (increases of alpha and beta, and reductions of theta and delta relative power) and in qEEG slowing (reduction of EEG power ratio) were statistically significant in patients with a disease progress of less than 2 years at baseline, but not in those patients having a longer disease progress time. Slowing of qEEG activity was also found to be significantly reduced in TBI patients after 1 month of treatment with Cere and 3 months later. Therefore, Cere seems to accelerate the time-related reduction of qEEG slowing occurring in untreated patients. The decrease of qEEG slowing induced by Cere correlated with the improvement of attention and working memory. Results of this exploratory study suggest that Cere might improve the functional recovery after brain injury and encourage the conduction of further controlled clinical trials.
Revue / Journal Title
Journal of neural transmission ISSN 0300-9564 CODEN JNTMAH
Source / Source
2008, vol. 115, no5, pp. 683-692 [10 page(s) (article)]
Langue / Language
Anglais
Editeur / Publisher
Springer, Wien, AUTRICHE (1972) (Revue)
Mots-clés d'auteur / Author Keywords
Cerebrolysin ; EEG power ratio . Quantitative EEG ; qEEG slowing . Cognitive performance . Traumatic brain injury ;
Localisation / Location
INIST-CNRS, Cote INIST : 7168, 35400019746826.0040
Titre du document / Document title
Reductions in qEEG slowing over 1 year and after treatment with Cerebrolysin in patients with moderate-severe traumatic brain injury
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
ALVAREZ X. Anton ; SAMPEDRO Carolina ; FIGUEROA Jesus ; TELLADO Ivan ; GONZALEZ Andrés ; GARCIA-FANTINI Manuel ; CACABELOS Ramon ; MURESANU Dafin ; MOESSLER Herbert ;
Résumé / Abstract
Changes in quantitative EEG (qEEG) recordings over a 1-year period and the effects of Cerebrolysin (Cere) on qEEG slowing and cognitive performance were investigated in postacute moderate-severe traumatic brain injury (TBI) patients. Time-related changes in qEEG activity frequency bands (increases of alpha and beta, and reductions of theta and delta relative power) and in qEEG slowing (reduction of EEG power ratio) were statistically significant in patients with a disease progress of less than 2 years at baseline, but not in those patients having a longer disease progress time. Slowing of qEEG activity was also found to be significantly reduced in TBI patients after 1 month of treatment with Cere and 3 months later. Therefore, Cere seems to accelerate the time-related reduction of qEEG slowing occurring in untreated patients. The decrease of qEEG slowing induced by Cere correlated with the improvement of attention and working memory. Results of this exploratory study suggest that Cere might improve the functional recovery after brain injury and encourage the conduction of further controlled clinical trials.
Revue / Journal Title
Journal of neural transmission ISSN 0300-9564 CODEN JNTMAH
Source / Source
2008, vol. 115, no5, pp. 683-692 [10 page(s) (article)]
Langue / Language
Anglais
Editeur / Publisher
Springer, Wien, AUTRICHE (1972) (Revue)
Mots-clés d'auteur / Author Keywords
Cerebrolysin ; EEG power ratio . Quantitative EEG ; qEEG slowing . Cognitive performance . Traumatic brain injury ;
Localisation / Location
INIST-CNRS, Cote INIST : 7168, 35400019746826.0040
#164
-
- Guest
- 135 posts
- -8 ₮
Posted 02 December 2009 - 09:40 AM
Can someone explain what the following is about.
Titre du document / Document title
Reductions in qEEG slowing over 1 year and after treatment with Cerebrolysin in patients with moderate-severe traumatic brain injury
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
ALVAREZ X. Anton ; SAMPEDRO Carolina ; FIGUEROA Jesus ; TELLADO Ivan ; GONZALEZ Andrés ; GARCIA-FANTINI Manuel ; CACABELOS Ramon ; MURESANU Dafin ; MOESSLER Herbert ;
Résumé / Abstract
Changes in quantitative EEG (qEEG) recordings over a 1-year period and the effects of Cerebrolysin (Cere) on qEEG slowing and cognitive performance were investigated in postacute moderate-severe traumatic brain injury (TBI) patients. Time-related changes in qEEG activity frequency bands (increases of alpha and beta, and reductions of theta and delta relative power) and in qEEG slowing (reduction of EEG power ratio) were statistically significant in patients with a disease progress of less than 2 years at baseline, but not in those patients having a longer disease progress time. Slowing of qEEG activity was also found to be significantly reduced in TBI patients after 1 month of treatment with Cere and 3 months later. Therefore, Cere seems to accelerate the time-related reduction of qEEG slowing occurring in untreated patients. The decrease of qEEG slowing induced by Cere correlated with the improvement of attention and working memory. Results of this exploratory study suggest that Cere might improve the functional recovery after brain injury and encourage the conduction of further controlled clinical trials.
Revue / Journal Title
Journal of neural transmission ISSN 0300-9564 CODEN JNTMAH
Source / Source
2008, vol. 115, no5, pp. 683-692 [10 page(s) (article)]
Langue / Language
Anglais
Editeur / Publisher
Springer, Wien, AUTRICHE (1972) (Revue)
Mots-clés d'auteur / Author Keywords
Cerebrolysin ; EEG power ratio . Quantitative EEG ; qEEG slowing . Cognitive performance . Traumatic brain injury ;
Localisation / Location
INIST-CNRS, Cote INIST : 7168, 35400019746826.0040
Titre du document / Document title
Reductions in qEEG slowing over 1 year and after treatment with Cerebrolysin in patients with moderate-severe traumatic brain injury
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
ALVAREZ X. Anton ; SAMPEDRO Carolina ; FIGUEROA Jesus ; TELLADO Ivan ; GONZALEZ Andrés ; GARCIA-FANTINI Manuel ; CACABELOS Ramon ; MURESANU Dafin ; MOESSLER Herbert ;
Résumé / Abstract
Changes in quantitative EEG (qEEG) recordings over a 1-year period and the effects of Cerebrolysin (Cere) on qEEG slowing and cognitive performance were investigated in postacute moderate-severe traumatic brain injury (TBI) patients. Time-related changes in qEEG activity frequency bands (increases of alpha and beta, and reductions of theta and delta relative power) and in qEEG slowing (reduction of EEG power ratio) were statistically significant in patients with a disease progress of less than 2 years at baseline, but not in those patients having a longer disease progress time. Slowing of qEEG activity was also found to be significantly reduced in TBI patients after 1 month of treatment with Cere and 3 months later. Therefore, Cere seems to accelerate the time-related reduction of qEEG slowing occurring in untreated patients. The decrease of qEEG slowing induced by Cere correlated with the improvement of attention and working memory. Results of this exploratory study suggest that Cere might improve the functional recovery after brain injury and encourage the conduction of further controlled clinical trials.
Revue / Journal Title
Journal of neural transmission ISSN 0300-9564 CODEN JNTMAH
Source / Source
2008, vol. 115, no5, pp. 683-692 [10 page(s) (article)]
Langue / Language
Anglais
Editeur / Publisher
Springer, Wien, AUTRICHE (1972) (Revue)
Mots-clés d'auteur / Author Keywords
Cerebrolysin ; EEG power ratio . Quantitative EEG ; qEEG slowing . Cognitive performance . Traumatic brain injury ;
Localisation / Location
INIST-CNRS, Cote INIST : 7168, 35400019746826.0040
#165
-
- Guest
- 135 posts
- -8 ₮
Posted 02 December 2009 - 09:41 AM
Can someone explain what the following is about.
Titre du document / Document title
Reductions in qEEG slowing over 1 year and after treatment with Cerebrolysin in patients with moderate-severe traumatic brain injury
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
ALVAREZ X. Anton ; SAMPEDRO Carolina ; FIGUEROA Jesus ; TELLADO Ivan ; GONZALEZ Andrés ; GARCIA-FANTINI Manuel ; CACABELOS Ramon ; MURESANU Dafin ; MOESSLER Herbert ;
Résumé / Abstract
Changes in quantitative EEG (qEEG) recordings over a 1-year period and the effects of Cerebrolysin (Cere) on qEEG slowing and cognitive performance were investigated in postacute moderate-severe traumatic brain injury (TBI) patients. Time-related changes in qEEG activity frequency bands (increases of alpha and beta, and reductions of theta and delta relative power) and in qEEG slowing (reduction of EEG power ratio) were statistically significant in patients with a disease progress of less than 2 years at baseline, but not in those patients having a longer disease progress time. Slowing of qEEG activity was also found to be significantly reduced in TBI patients after 1 month of treatment with Cere and 3 months later. Therefore, Cere seems to accelerate the time-related reduction of qEEG slowing occurring in untreated patients. The decrease of qEEG slowing induced by Cere correlated with the improvement of attention and working memory. Results of this exploratory study suggest that Cere might improve the functional recovery after brain injury and encourage the conduction of further controlled clinical trials.
Revue / Journal Title
Journal of neural transmission ISSN 0300-9564 CODEN JNTMAH
Source / Source
2008, vol. 115, no5, pp. 683-692 [10 page(s) (article)]
Langue / Language
Anglais
Editeur / Publisher
Springer, Wien, AUTRICHE (1972) (Revue)
Mots-clés d'auteur / Author Keywords
Cerebrolysin ; EEG power ratio . Quantitative EEG ; qEEG slowing . Cognitive performance . Traumatic brain injury ;
Localisation / Location
INIST-CNRS, Cote INIST : 7168, 35400019746826.0040
Titre du document / Document title
Reductions in qEEG slowing over 1 year and after treatment with Cerebrolysin in patients with moderate-severe traumatic brain injury
Auteur(s) / Author(s)
ALVAREZ X. Anton ; SAMPEDRO Carolina ; FIGUEROA Jesus ; TELLADO Ivan ; GONZALEZ Andrés ; GARCIA-FANTINI Manuel ; CACABELOS Ramon ; MURESANU Dafin ; MOESSLER Herbert ;
Résumé / Abstract
Changes in quantitative EEG (qEEG) recordings over a 1-year period and the effects of Cerebrolysin (Cere) on qEEG slowing and cognitive performance were investigated in postacute moderate-severe traumatic brain injury (TBI) patients. Time-related changes in qEEG activity frequency bands (increases of alpha and beta, and reductions of theta and delta relative power) and in qEEG slowing (reduction of EEG power ratio) were statistically significant in patients with a disease progress of less than 2 years at baseline, but not in those patients having a longer disease progress time. Slowing of qEEG activity was also found to be significantly reduced in TBI patients after 1 month of treatment with Cere and 3 months later. Therefore, Cere seems to accelerate the time-related reduction of qEEG slowing occurring in untreated patients. The decrease of qEEG slowing induced by Cere correlated with the improvement of attention and working memory. Results of this exploratory study suggest that Cere might improve the functional recovery after brain injury and encourage the conduction of further controlled clinical trials.
Revue / Journal Title
Journal of neural transmission ISSN 0300-9564 CODEN JNTMAH
Source / Source
2008, vol. 115, no5, pp. 683-692 [10 page(s) (article)]
Langue / Language
Anglais
Editeur / Publisher
Springer, Wien, AUTRICHE (1972) (Revue)
Mots-clés d'auteur / Author Keywords
Cerebrolysin ; EEG power ratio . Quantitative EEG ; qEEG slowing . Cognitive performance . Traumatic brain injury ;
Localisation / Location
INIST-CNRS, Cote INIST : 7168, 35400019746826.0040
#166
-
- Guest
- 4 posts
- 0 ₮
Posted 02 December 2009 - 01:57 PM
Here in our office we have observed that the I.V. infusions are far more effective than I.M. injections. We use 5ml of cerebrolysin in 240 ml hartman solution delivered through a small gauge butterfly stick 40-50 drops per min. The I.M. injections are considered to be a second choice and people use them to continue their treatments when they are not in Mexico.
I am not familiar with Semax, I will have to ask the Doc about that.
I will be ordering Cerebrolysine today, we will see how much it cost in U.S. dollars today, it varys from time to time. We only buy what we are using at the time, I would imagine we could get a better price in Bulk.
For anyone interested, we buy it at farmacias especializados in guadalajara Mexico.
One person said that he gets it for $63.00...I assume that is for a box of 5 amps 5ml? Where does it come from? I was surprised to see that people are getting sub-standard product from some countries.
We were interested to see that healthy people are using cerebrolysin to improve mental function. Are the benefits worth the cost and what kind of improvment do you see?
I have read a lot about the legality of importation into the States and I am wondering what the real deal is on that. I know that there is a need for an economical and reliable source for cerebrolysin in the U.S. and since it is not a controlled substance here in Mexico I would consider being a provider if I could get the cost down low enough, as it is now it looks like Cerebrolysin is more expensive in Mexico than other countries. I am interested to know what people are paying for it, including shipping from elsewhere.
I think it is a terrible shame that Cerebrolysin is not available in the U.S. as we have seen remarkable results in our patients.
I am happy to be a part of the info sharing here, this particular topic is of great intrest to me
Betsy Gilbert
Office of Dr. Ricardo Heredia
Chapala, Jalisco
I am not familiar with Semax, I will have to ask the Doc about that.
I will be ordering Cerebrolysine today, we will see how much it cost in U.S. dollars today, it varys from time to time. We only buy what we are using at the time, I would imagine we could get a better price in Bulk.
For anyone interested, we buy it at farmacias especializados in guadalajara Mexico.
One person said that he gets it for $63.00...I assume that is for a box of 5 amps 5ml? Where does it come from? I was surprised to see that people are getting sub-standard product from some countries.
We were interested to see that healthy people are using cerebrolysin to improve mental function. Are the benefits worth the cost and what kind of improvment do you see?
I have read a lot about the legality of importation into the States and I am wondering what the real deal is on that. I know that there is a need for an economical and reliable source for cerebrolysin in the U.S. and since it is not a controlled substance here in Mexico I would consider being a provider if I could get the cost down low enough, as it is now it looks like Cerebrolysin is more expensive in Mexico than other countries. I am interested to know what people are paying for it, including shipping from elsewhere.
I think it is a terrible shame that Cerebrolysin is not available in the U.S. as we have seen remarkable results in our patients.
I am happy to be a part of the info sharing here, this particular topic is of great intrest to me
Betsy Gilbert
Office of Dr. Ricardo Heredia
Chapala, Jalisco
#167
-
- Guest
- 135 posts
- -8 ₮
Posted 03 December 2009 - 02:02 PM
I found a new studie:
Effects of NGF, b-FGF, and Cerebrolysin on Water Maze Performance and on Motor Activity of Rats: Short- and Long-Term Study
Abstract:
The effects of 14-day treatments with nerve growth factor (NGF), basic fibroblast growth factor (b-FGF), or the peptidergic drug Cerebrolysin on postlesion acquisition of a water maze task and on motor activity were evaluated. Rats were tested in the Morris water maze 14 days (early test) and 7 to 8 months (delayed test) after a bilateral lesion of the frontoparietal (sensorimotor) cortex. Only the rats treated with Cerebrolysin performed the water maze task at the level of the nonlesioned controls in the early test. No short-term effect of NGF (6.5 ng/14 days; 38 ng/ml) or b-FGF (17 ng/14 days; 100 ng/ml) treatment was found. The delayed test revealed that water maze performance was restored in rats treated with b-FGF in comparison with intact controls. The data showed that b-FGF can support or initiate processes in the CNS that lead to a delayed functional amelioration and/or compensation for a water maze performance deficit. NGF did not influence the acquisition impairment caused by a sensorimotor cortical lesion. Two-week administration of Cerebrolysin had a time-dependent influence: it attenuated the acquisition deficit and increased the motor activity of rats, both effects declined to the level of lesioned controls within 8 months. Copyright 1999 Academic Press.
Effects of NGF, b-FGF, and Cerebrolysin on Water Maze Performance and on Motor Activity of Rats: Short- and Long-Term Study
Abstract:
The effects of 14-day treatments with nerve growth factor (NGF), basic fibroblast growth factor (b-FGF), or the peptidergic drug Cerebrolysin on postlesion acquisition of a water maze task and on motor activity were evaluated. Rats were tested in the Morris water maze 14 days (early test) and 7 to 8 months (delayed test) after a bilateral lesion of the frontoparietal (sensorimotor) cortex. Only the rats treated with Cerebrolysin performed the water maze task at the level of the nonlesioned controls in the early test. No short-term effect of NGF (6.5 ng/14 days; 38 ng/ml) or b-FGF (17 ng/14 days; 100 ng/ml) treatment was found. The delayed test revealed that water maze performance was restored in rats treated with b-FGF in comparison with intact controls. The data showed that b-FGF can support or initiate processes in the CNS that lead to a delayed functional amelioration and/or compensation for a water maze performance deficit. NGF did not influence the acquisition impairment caused by a sensorimotor cortical lesion. Two-week administration of Cerebrolysin had a time-dependent influence: it attenuated the acquisition deficit and increased the motor activity of rats, both effects declined to the level of lesioned controls within 8 months. Copyright 1999 Academic Press.
#168
-
- Guest
- 313 posts
- 7 ₮
- Location:Europe
Posted 03 December 2009 - 02:40 PM
Hi,
many thanks for the update!
It appears that the study is from 1999 - see last sentence.
Cheers
Alex
many thanks for the update!
It appears that the study is from 1999 - see last sentence.
Cheers
Alex
I found a new studie:
Effects of NGF, b-FGF, and Cerebrolysin on Water Maze Performance and on Motor Activity of Rats: Short- and Long-Term Study
Abstract:
The effects of 14-day treatments with nerve growth factor (NGF), basic fibroblast growth factor (b-FGF), or the peptidergic drug Cerebrolysin on postlesion acquisition of a water maze task and on motor activity were evaluated. Rats were tested in the Morris water maze 14 days (early test) and 7 to 8 months (delayed test) after a bilateral lesion of the frontoparietal (sensorimotor) cortex. Only the rats treated with Cerebrolysin performed the water maze task at the level of the nonlesioned controls in the early test. No short-term effect of NGF (6.5 ng/14 days; 38 ng/ml) or b-FGF (17 ng/14 days; 100 ng/ml) treatment was found. The delayed test revealed that water maze performance was restored in rats treated with b-FGF in comparison with intact controls. The data showed that b-FGF can support or initiate processes in the CNS that lead to a delayed functional amelioration and/or compensation for a water maze performance deficit. NGF did not influence the acquisition impairment caused by a sensorimotor cortical lesion. Two-week administration of Cerebrolysin had a time-dependent influence: it attenuated the acquisition deficit and increased the motor activity of rats, both effects declined to the level of lesioned controls within 8 months. Copyright 1999 Academic Press.
#169
-
- Guest
- 87 posts
- 43 ₮
Posted 04 December 2009 - 03:32 AM
Here in our office we have observed that the I.V. infusions are far more effective than I.M. injections. We use 5ml of cerebrolysin in 240 ml hartman solution delivered through a small gauge butterfly stick 40-50 drops per min. The I.M. injections are considered to be a second choice and people use them to continue their treatments when they are not in Mexico.
Have you used different dosages, or only 5 mL I.V. / I.M.? These are Alzheimer's patients, or stroke patients? What can you say about the observed differences in outcome from I.M. versus I.V. administration?
Online prices are around US$70 for 5 x 5 mL ampoules, plus about $15 shipping per order usually.
#170
-
- Guest
- 66 posts
- 7 ₮
- Location:Washington
Posted 04 December 2009 - 06:31 AM
Hey Betsy, how many total mL are in the $400 20 day course? If it's only 100, (5 mL a day times 20 days) then its not a great deal since you can buy 100 mL here http://www.drugs-pro...rebrolysin.html for $215 including shipping.
Update on effects:
Contrary to trevyn, I did notice a big crash after I stopped using it. One interesting effect I noticed about a week after stopping is that my seep patterns suddenly normalized even though they had been completely irreugular since about age 16. I think somehow the cerebrolysin must have regrown some neurons in a part of my brain which had atrophied or something.
Update on effects:
Contrary to trevyn, I did notice a big crash after I stopped using it. One interesting effect I noticed about a week after stopping is that my seep patterns suddenly normalized even though they had been completely irreugular since about age 16. I think somehow the cerebrolysin must have regrown some neurons in a part of my brain which had atrophied or something.
#171
-
- Guest
- 87 posts
- 43 ₮
Posted 04 December 2009 - 08:44 AM
Contrary to trevyn, I did notice a big crash after I stopped using it. One interesting effect I noticed about a week after stopping is that my seep patterns suddenly normalized even though they had been completely irreugular since about age 16. I think somehow the cerebrolysin must have regrown some neurons in a part of my brain which had atrophied or something.
Has anyone other than myself used a filter straw/needle to draw up the CL? I'm not entirely certain that the larger peptides are making it through the 5 micron filter, which still has filtering activity below 5 micron.
#172
-
- Guest
- 2 posts
- 0 ₮
Posted 07 December 2009 - 08:39 PM
Betsy, could you PM me the location of your clinic? Or anyone that has had subsequent interaction with her to whom she may have divulged these details? I'm having trouble reaching her and very interested in Celebrolysin. Everything on PubMed is just thumbs up all across, but no studies in healthy individuals aside from the few virtuous forum members who have chimed in with there results.
#173
-
- Guest
- 87 posts
- 43 ₮
Posted 07 December 2009 - 11:59 PM
Betsy, could you PM me the location of your clinic? Or anyone that has had subsequent interaction with her to whom she may have divulged these details? I'm having trouble reaching her and very interested in Celebrolysin. Everything on PubMed is just thumbs up all across, but no studies in healthy individuals aside from the few virtuous forum members who have chimed in with there results.
As I posted above, there is one study using healthy human volunteers, showing mild memory improvement and no significant side effects at lower doses: Funke M, Fiehler J, Mewes I, Eiselt M, Rother I, Windisch M. "Dose-dependent effects of Cerebrolysin on EEG and short-term memory of healthy volunteers during control and hyperventilation induced cerebral ischemia." (PMID 9700674).
#174
-
- Guest
- 66 posts
- 7 ₮
- Location:Washington
Posted 11 December 2009 - 05:32 AM
Has anyone other than myself used a filter straw/needle to draw up the CL? I'm not entirely certain that the larger peptides are making it through the 5 micron filter, which still has filtering activity below 5 micron.
Why would you do that?
#175
-
- Guest
- 87 posts
- 43 ₮
Posted 12 December 2009 - 04:40 AM
Has anyone other than myself used a filter straw/needle to draw up the CL? I'm not entirely certain that the larger peptides are making it through the 5 micron filter, which still has filtering activity below 5 micron.
Why would you do that?
So I don't inject glass particles: http://www.jstor.org/stable/29521284 , http://linkinghub.el...196655309002910
#176
-
- Guest
- 66 posts
- 7 ₮
- Location:Washington
Posted 15 December 2009 - 04:46 AM
Has anyone other than myself used a filter straw/needle to draw up the CL? I'm not entirely certain that the larger peptides are making it through the 5 micron filter, which still has filtering activity below 5 micron.
Why would you do that?
So I don't inject glass particles: http://www.jstor.org/stable/29521284 , http://linkinghub.el...196655309002910
Oh. How do you know the larger peptides aren't responsible for some of the effects? Is there any research about negative effects of glass particles in intramuscular injections?
#177
-
- Guest
- 87 posts
- 43 ₮
Posted 16 December 2009 - 03:12 PM
Oh. How do you know the larger peptides aren't responsible for some of the effects?
Oh, I'm sure they are. I just can't speak knowledgeably about whether they are in fact getting through the filter.
Size-wise it looks ok, as the insulin hexamer (5.8 kDa) is ~50 angstrom diameter (ref), and a 10 kDa protein is going to be in roughly the same ballpark. (and 5 micron = 50,000 angstrom)
That said, apparently some filter media are more protein-binding than others, see http://www.pall.com/...ratory_1219.asp for a rather nice discussion.
Is there any research about negative effects of glass particles in intramuscular injections?
"While existing literature is clear that glass contamination occurs on opening single-dose glass ampoules, the clinical significance of intramuscular administration of glass particles is equivocal...intravenous (IV) administration of glass particles may lead to complications including pulmonary thrombi and micro-emboli, infusion phlebitis, end-organ granuloma formation and inflammation. While complications at intramuscular (IM) injection sites, including pain, bleeding or haematoma formation, acute inflammatory induration and formation of transient nodules, have been documented, none thus far have been directly attributed to the parenteral administration of glass particles...Although the clinical significance of IM administration of glass micro-particles has not been established, current nursing practice standards do not adequately address this issue in terms of aspiration or filtration techniques that may minimize potential risk to patients, especially those who receive ongoing scheduled IM injections...The clinical significance of intramuscular administration of glass micro-particles has not been established. Little is currently understood about the potential deleterious effects of chronic exposure to glass particulates in muscle tissue." (PMID 15488040)
Edited by trevyn, 16 December 2009 - 03:19 PM.
#178
-
- Guest
- 6 posts
- 0 ₮
Posted 19 December 2009 - 10:02 PM
Hi everyone
I am very interested in Cerebrolysin. Is it worth the money? I want to be "reborn" and boost my mental performance, can this drug do that? I have previous experience with Piracetam, Pyritinol and Huperzine A, but find the effects of these nootropics to be limited. I want something much stronger & better.
Does anyone know any reliable internetpharmacy in the EU with the real stuff (no fake stuff)? Please send me a PM.
I will of course write an user-report and make a review of the drug if I will be able to get it.
/niceguj
Excuse me if my english is bad, i'm not from UK or USA so english isn't my native language.
I am very interested in Cerebrolysin. Is it worth the money? I want to be "reborn" and boost my mental performance, can this drug do that? I have previous experience with Piracetam, Pyritinol and Huperzine A, but find the effects of these nootropics to be limited. I want something much stronger & better.
Does anyone know any reliable internetpharmacy in the EU with the real stuff (no fake stuff)? Please send me a PM.
I will of course write an user-report and make a review of the drug if I will be able to get it.
/niceguj
Excuse me if my english is bad, i'm not from UK or USA so english isn't my native language.
#179
-
- Validating/Suspended
- 2,223 posts
- 159 ₮
- Location:Boston
Posted 27 December 2009 - 11:47 AM
I'm interested in this drug for a psychosis induced cogniitve impairment. I live in Massachusetts...if anyone can recommend good prices, and best ways to take this drug that would be great. Also any experiences on this drugs I'd love to hear about.
#180
-
- Guest
- 6 posts
- 0 ₮
Posted 31 December 2009 - 07:07 PM
What needle size is recommended for iv or im injections with Cerebrolysin? I'm thinking about buying 22gx1" needles. Does that seem to be ok?
I'm probably going to make an order (Cerebrolysin and syringes&needles) next week .
I'm considering following cycle: 5days (mon-friday) * 10 ml * 4 weeks
I'm probably going to make an order (Cerebrolysin and syringes&needles) next week .
I'm considering following cycle: 5days (mon-friday) * 10 ml * 4 weeks
40 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 40 guests, 0 anonymous users
