2208 replies to this topic

[Flex]

@ Joel

here is a lot of information about Cerebrolysin:
http://journals.prou...sPs=N&p_ispdf=N

Drugs Today (Barc). 2011 Jul;47(7):487-513. doi: 10.1358/dot.2011.47.7.1656496. Cerebrolysin in Alzheimer's disease. Antón Álvarez X, Fuentes P. Source EuroEspes Biomedical Research Centre, A Coruña, Spain. xantonal@yahoo.es

Downloadable as PDF at:
http://journals.prou...p_RefId=1656496
( your mentioned Diagram is shown at page 19 / respectively 505)

Interresting Cerebrolysin has a NGF like effect but couldnt be blocked by NGF antibodies (page 491)

Edited by Flex, 25 November 2013 - 05:40 PM.

[SLR2009]

@Sholrak: Nope. But I opted for buying both in the end
@SLR: It would help if you could specify "brain damage". I also don't know what dose would be best for me, however I feel very damaged, hence have decided to do 10ml a day 5on7off. Indeed a month would be sufficient to gauge efficiency. After that, you can decide how to continue. You don't have to do IV: do IM. It's relatively easy, and much safer. Indeed a hospital or a doctor could do this for you, but would require some effort, time, and finances, to set up. IDK about the AD's.

I've made my own simplified how-to guide for IM injections. I made it because I wanted it to fit 1 page, so that I can print it and place it on the wall. And writing up things in your own words helps you learn, right? Anyway, it was based of off this post and you can download it here (no guarantees of accuracy; this will be my personal method). If anyone can give me some feedback on whether it's more or less the way to go, that would be great

I appreciate all the advice and info in this thread. I've read through most of this thread.

I posted a page or 2 back the type of brain damage that I have (including symptoms) which was caused by the Inhalant hairspray (which I abused for 3-4 years). After I got the brain damage the high that I normally got from using the inhalant never wore off. I'm stuck with all the symptoms of feeling very drunk for the last 13 years :(.

Anti-depressants never helped my depression or anxiety.

I took a brain scan 10 years ago (with contrast) but no damage was seen which means that the damage is microscopic.

Do I have to go off my Ant-depressants before I start the Cerebrolysin treatments? The withdrawals from going off the Ant-depressants will be tough and will take at least 2 months to get off both Anti-depressants (Effexor and Zyprexa) which I will deal with if I need to.

Would being on the Anti-depressants decrease the effectiveness of the Cerebrolysin treatments?

Just to confirm I should purchase Cerebrolsyin from nootropic.eu?

A hologram would means that it's authentic?

I want to make sure that it's from a legit source.

Thanks again.

Edited by SLR2009, 25 November 2013 - 09:09 PM.

[Sholrak]

Hi all,

I just heard about this drug from a doctor friend, she's a middle aged woman and apparently takes it once a year. She didn't mention the dosage, but i'm assuming its 1 injection ~5ml.

Is this too small a dosage to be effective?

I'm a young healthy man in my early twenties running my own business. It gets mentally draining working long hours and having to make decisions and design strategies on a daily basis. Basically dealing with mentally challenging tasks and stress.

I'm starting piracetam at 1600mg X 2 doses daily too.

Please let me know your thoughts on the recommended cerebrolysin dosage required for healthy individuals and relevant studies if any.

Thanks

Cerebrolysin sounds like it's definitely up your alley (high stress, business owner, etc). I'd say 5ml/day (up to 10ml if really mentally stressed) should be good enough. Once a quarter should work, but you could inject more frequently (up to once every.. other month) if you feel the effect wearing off.

The schedule recommended by my friend is 10ml/day 5 days on 2 days off for a total of 100ml. She does this once a year and i don't think she will give me more if I ask for it for fear of my well being.

My question is, are there any long term changes in your brain (negative/positive) or is this a kind of drug that fades as soon as you go off it?

Will I end up dumber or go back to baseline if I go off it for a prolonged period (few years)?

Also since this drug is used predominantly in older folks and people with brain damage, what's the long term effect on young healthy individuals as they approach middle- old age without continuing this drug?

Appreciate any input or researches.

I think it would be good to do it for one month. The effect eventually wears off after about 2-3 months, hence the reason for redoing it. I think there is a graph somewhere that shows the steady decline after stopping, but I can't remember where it is or what it was measuring.

In Alzheimer's studies they had seen until 6 months of effects to dissipate. For those who have not alzheimer, I would say about months 3 of remnant effect for a 100 ml. cycle. I did a 50 ml only and took over two months. It's certainly hard to notice how it goes dissapearing.

[Flex]

@ SLR 2009

You could try to request the Batch No. from the Manufacturer Everpharma, if they produced it.

But I believe this could´nt mean a 100% guarantee.

Regarding to the Brain scan:
As far as I read, You would get maybe with a Diffusion MRI or a PET the right results.

[NG_F]

fMRI Functional MRI would be your best bet.

[aarfai]

When would be the most effective time to take Cerebrolysin? What are your timing and dosing like?

[Keizo]

When would be the most effective time to take Cerebrolysin? What are your timing and dosing like?

In the morning. If you want to sleep that is. Seems to be the experience of a few other people here as well if I remember.

It definitely seems to increase the pace of my thoughts, but only sometimes. So far that effect seems to come towards the evening.

3rd injection today, 5ml IM, and this morning I simply felt more calm and experienced my senses better. Right now my thoughts are somewhat sped-up, but they don't annoy me like they always used to when my head started revving. There is this everlasting calm at the same time. It is similar to dextroamphetamine in this regard (I have ADHD), which sometimes makes me more "engaged" but keeps the whole thing coherent and mostly pleasant. They both seem to make me drowsy sometimes as well. Etc.

Any way this works wonders for the extreme apathy/letharg, as well as bodily tension, that I have had since coming off benzos. Hopefully there won't be any crazy long-term (10+ years) side-effects. I am probably going to do 5ml as recommended (5 times a week for 3-4 weeks, and then some time inbetween cycles). Or maybe ever other day in the same manner.
So far it doesn't seem intelligent to use more than this, personally. This stuff seems to be strong for me to do that without becoming obsessed with something and wasting huge amounts of time. Or maybe these very noticable effects will fade, but having read this thread I don't think so. We will see.

[Keizo]

Would being on the Anti-depressants decrease the effectiveness of the Cerebrolysin treatments?

It is stated that one should decrease the dosage of anti-depressants if one is using any such medication. It also states that there might be increased risk of epileptic attacks if one combines it. But it is probably safe to try Cerebrolysin once or twice without doing so (just a guess). I have eaten 150mg Wellbutrin(Voxra) for a few weeks and took a couple of injections before I decided to stop (today). The synergy might have contributed to some cloudiness in my cognition. I don't know, it might have just been coincidence or one of the things themselves.

I would suggest you try cerebrolysin first, then if it seems to do something significant start tapering your antidepressant since you don't experience benefits from them. But you know don't take medical advice for me.

[formergenius]

Symptoms include visual distortions, feeling like i'm in a dream, some verbal fluidity issues, and issues with depressive/anxiety symptoms.

Any updates? Sounds like you're in a similar boat as I am.

[Keizo]

Symptoms include visual distortions, feeling like i'm in a dream, some verbal fluidity issues, and issues with depressive/anxiety symptoms.

Any updates? Sounds like you're in a similar boat as I am.

I have had some milder symptoms in those more obscure categories. Cere definitely makes me quite grounded in reality, so far. The thing I'm hoping most for, and what seems to be most helped, is anxiety and depression (which probably can cause a lot of those other issues).

[Flex]

May I ask something off-Topic ?

[fj929]

Nume please continue to keep us posted on your progress. I am following your thread with great interest.

Edited by fj929, 27 November 2013 - 02:40 PM.

[SLR2009]

I'm going to go with the 10 ML dosage. If I want to do Cerebrolysin for 5 days a week for 1 month than I need to purchase 20 x 10 ML Packs? Will this be enough?

I will be probably ordering Cerebrolsysin from nootropic.eu

I'm slowly weening myself off my Anti-depressants (I don't want to risk any side effects when taking Cerebrolysin). It will take some time before I'm fully off of them.

I feel like I'm in a dream as well, I have difficulty moving my eyes. I feel extremely drunk. I guess it's like depersonalization. Will Cerebrolysin restore my vision back to normal?

[Keizo]

I'm going to go with the 10 ML dosage. If I want to do Cerebrolysin for 5 days a week for 1 month than I need to purchase 20 x 10 ML Packs? Will this be enough?

I will be probably ordering Cerebrolsysin from nootropic.eu

I'm slowly weening myself off my Anti-depressants (I don't want to risk any side effects when taking Cerebrolysin). It will take some time before I'm fully off of them.

I feel like I'm in a dream as well, I have difficulty moving my eyes. I feel extremely drunk. I guess it's like depersonalization. Will Cerebrolysin restore my vision back to normal?

I don't know if it's safe or not to inject 10ml in one site. I would do 2 injections of 5ml (if you do the buttocks, one in each side).

It seems my eyes are less stressed now just like the rest of me is. Maybe because I have been less infront of my computer.... Anyway my field of vision no longer gets absolutely destroyed when looking at this picture http://www.socwall.c...3-1920x1080.jpg
And my eyes don't hurt etc

If you are tense in your neck or upper back, you should sort that out at a chiropractor or massage therapist. It might affect lots of things. I got a very drunk nauseating feeling before I went that route. But when I quit Zoloft a long time ago I got a very strong inability to concentrate, I just stared at my computer for a few weeks, with this unpleasant unsteady feeling. Do take your time, I quit very abrupt that time which I regret.

[formergenius]

I received my Cerebrolysin + supplies today. However, I'm not sure if I bought the right gear:


They both said "luer lock" in the description, so I figured it'd be fine.. This just doesn't look right to me, especially after seeing the wiki page on luer locks. Do I have the wrong syringe/am I missing something?
When I attempt to connect the two, there's no twisting or screwing; the needle fits on to the nozzle quite snugly by pushing it on. Is this O.K. to inject with?

edit: Or do I need to buy something like this?

Edited by formergenius, 30 November 2013 - 12:47 PM.

[Keizo]

I received my Cerebrolysin + supplies today. However, I'm not sure if I bought the right gear:


They both said "luer lock" in the description, so I figured it'd be fine.. This just doesn't look right to me, especially after seeing the wiki page on luer locks. Do I have the wrong syringe/am I missing something?
When I attempt to connect the two, there's no twisting or screwing; the needle fits on to the nozzle quite snugly by pushing it on. Is this O.K. to inject with?

edit: Or do I need to buy something like this?

I use the same sort of thing. It only states "luer" on my package, but the people selling it stated "luer-lock". What we have is a slip-tip, or luer-slip.

"Luer-Lok" and "Luer-Slip" are registered trademarks of Becton Dickinson. "Luer-Lok" style connectors are often generically referred to as "Luer lock". "Luer-slip" style connectors may be generically referred to as "slip tip".

" http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Luer_taper
There is no problem just push it in there, and anyway no reason to push the stuff to fast into the muscle unless you want to get dizzy.

[formergenius]

Thanks for replying! So in that case; the link I posted in the edit portrays an incorrect image?
Yes mine only reads "luer" on the package as well. Ok well.. I'm gonna procrastinate a bit and jab it in there.
I'll update tonight.

[Keizo]

@formergenius I think so, but I have no real experience with these terms to be honest.


A little update:

I used up my last 5ml ampule (5 out of 5) this morning, after using them 1 day on one day off more or less. Definitely not placebo...but I no longer get much of a rush after injecting it (dopamine from the "oh damn I just injected pig brain"-experience, I guess).

So far colors and smells seem to have more feelings and texture associated with them. Especially 2 hours after injecting it. Basically everything isn't as grey, and these things feel more like it did when I was a kid. I also much more easily get images when I think about stuff. (In fact the first day when I went to bed it happened a bit to easily, I "saw" in the dark this deformed face that seemed perhaps a bit too visceral....without really thinking about anything in particular to bring it forward.)
Most noticeable it seems to make me cope with stress extremely well. It also feels like I notice the effects more when I put myself in stressful situations. For example 2 weeks ago when I was in social situations for any period of time my body would start to cave, I would hold my hand up and see it shake, same with my voice. That is gone now.
There are more things but it might be coincidence just as likely, for example my body seems to be able to regulate blood flow better, i.e. my heart starts pumping hard when I get out of a hot bath and I don't get cold, nor do I get this horrible numbness and "pins and needles" feeling when I get in the hot bath.
Well my cognition & vision in general, and migraine-like symptoms are improved but I attribute that to stress-relief thus far.

I will probably buy 20x5ml or something similar and do it for a month, then wait longer before anything more.

The only real side effects that are clear to me is a mild allergic reaction on my skin. Nothing I have not experienced before from say my dog-allergy. The first time (which I did without taking an anti-histamine) I got some mucous production form my throat and it got a bit tight. Slightly harder to fall asleep is also noted. Possibly it makes it slightly harder for me to sit still (but concentration seems improved), and possibly a slight discomfort at times in the stomach/intestine general area.

Edited by Nume, 30 November 2013 - 02:33 PM.

[formergenius]

Injected 2 x 5ml in both vastus lateralis sites today. Can't say I notice much of anything. I'm tired and going to bed.

[formergenius]

Is it absolutely necessary to wait a minimum of 7 days between injection sites? Seeing as I'm injecting 2 x 5ml a day, I'll need a total of 10 injection sites per week.. I guess if I use this technique I could manage, however I was hoping that I could use my thigh more than once a week, considering its easy access. Could I just move a few inches from the vastus lateralis site and inject there?

Sleep was not out of the ordinary last night by the way.

edit: oh. I thought quads were the upper arms. My anatomy is not the best. Guess I'll be able to inject my thighs today then.

Edited by formergenius, 01 December 2013 - 10:34 AM.

[Braziliandude]

from what I hear you have to inject every other day...switching sites...on the butt muscle..thats it.

[JASOG888]

I use my quads. One day the left, the next the right, then back to the left and so forth.

[Plasticperson]

does anyone have a list of the exact peptides in cerebrolysin

[Flex]

Maybe in the PDF, posted from me on 25 November

[formergenius]

Cool thanks; I opted for cycling between 2 sites on the vastus lateralis for now.
Day 3 and just injected.. my last injection seemed more painful than otherwise (which is negligible), did I nick a nerve/vessel maybe?
My thoughts were that perhaps I unconsciously tensed the muscle, which caused for more discomfort.
In any case; sleep last night was different. Trouble falling asleep, and awoke twice through the night, which is unusual for me.
Dreams were different and many. Noticed some other subtle things that I'll keep to myself until I'm certain I can't chalk it up to placebo.

[Plasticperson]

Hey whats the general consensus on storing cerebrolysin in the refrigerator for later use?

[Sholrak]

There's no consensus. I used a dose which was in the fridge (the coolest part of it BTW) about 6 days and I'm alive. I got no issues, perhaps a tiny rash/eruption in a hand when I took too much sun by walking my dog (with that hand receiving the sun from holding the dog while walking) and I did not think on the cause but now I have it clear. Nobody knows how near an infection or something I played with xD

I would recommend, and don't take this as a medical advice please, to not surpass the 72 hours. Indeed I did a lot of injections with those three days stored in the fridge and everything was perfect. I would state 72 h as MAXIMUM rationale time. If you are afraid, then use 48 h as limit. 2-3 days should be fine, nothing to worry about in my opinion.

Remember to place the syringe in the coolest part of the fridge. I guess it's the down side by pure physics (coolest air going down and less cool going up) in every fridge, but make sure.

Edited by Sholrak, 04 December 2013 - 12:26 AM.

[AwesomeName]

When would be the most effective time to take Cerebrolysin? What are your timing and dosing like?

Any way this works wonders for the extreme apathy/letharg, as well as bodily tension, that I have had since coming off benzos. Hopefully there won't be any crazy long-term (10+ years) side-effects. I am probably going to do 5ml as recommended (5 times a week for 3-4 weeks, and then some time inbetween cycles). Or maybe ever other day in the same manner.
So far it doesn't seem intelligent to use more than this, personally. This stuff seems to be strong for me to do that without becoming obsessed with something and wasting huge amounts of time. Or maybe these very noticable effects will fade, but having read this thread I don't think so. We will see.

How exactly have your post-benzodiazapine symptoms improved?

Is your sleep better? Your working memory?

Do you feel like your old self again?

[Sholrak]

AwesomeName, did you finally try Cerebrolysin for you post benzodiazepine syndrome? As far as I know, Cere works brilliant on GABA and Acetylcholine systems. I think it's an amazing treatment for alcohol and b.diazepines. It increases GABA receptors density and that's probably the reason it's anxiolytic effects are so awesome.

[Keizo]

When would be the most effective time to take Cerebrolysin? What are your timing and dosing like?

Any way this works wonders for the extreme apathy/letharg, as well as bodily tension, that I have had since coming off benzos. Hopefully there won't be any crazy long-term (10+ years) side-effects. I am probably going to do 5ml as recommended (5 times a week for 3-4 weeks, and then some time inbetween cycles). Or maybe ever other day in the same manner.
So far it doesn't seem intelligent to use more than this, personally. This stuff seems to be strong for me to do that without becoming obsessed with something and wasting huge amounts of time. Or maybe these very noticable effects will fade, but having read this thread I don't think so. We will see.

How exactly have your post-benzodiazapine symptoms improved?

Is your sleep better? Your working memory?

Do you feel like your old self again?

Basically it seems to remove any stress.
Before the first injection I would get what can only be described as some sort of stress response very easily. Most notably if I was talking to people for a while I would notice my hands begin to shake as well as my voice, and I couldnt finish sentences if any interruption occurred. Also I would be very wired for many hours after such a happening and unable to concentrate on anything.

All kinds of annoyances dont leave me as depressed or mentally challenged, it just seems to be things that happen and i move on. I am able to write simple emails without thinking 3 hours about the ins and outs of how to type "hello, id like an appointment"

Also my vision or migraine symptoms I should say ..they have improved, which seems more ambiguous as to what caused that, but migraine is a stress related ailment.

Used up the last of 5x5ml a couple of days ago and the feeling of visual stimuli being like what it was when I was a child, having more texture, feeling and memories associated with it, well that seems to wear off.

Never had problems with sleeping to little since quitting benzo, but im sure it might help if it is really bad.

Basically my head functions better and smoother. Probably better than ever in some regards ..for example social anxiety, and I never was a posterboy for mental stability. But I probably need to do this for a while more. One problem I dont know has changed is the inability to recall what I did a week ago and so on.