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Cerebrolysin


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#1921 Rior

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 05:42 PM

^ Storing a sterile syringe in a plastic bag in the fridge is what I've done as well. I've taken 10mL ampules and divided it into two 5mL doses, one per each day, in order to save on costs (considering 10mL ampules cost less money than 5mL per actual mL).  

 

My updated opinion of Cerebrolysin is as follows:

 

5x5mL Cere dosing in the morning, taking weekends off is ideal for me. 

 

Initial pre-loading dose of 10mL, 5mL in the morning and 5mL at night, for two days, seemed optimal for me to jumpstart the process. When I first started using Cerebrolysin, it was immediately followed by a dramatic clarity of thought, quickening of speech and dramatically increased cleverness that could not possibly be associated with placebo. (After having used cere times in the past and used many other supplements, I can more or less completely rule out placebo when it's happening) It was very, very noticeable. My thoughts felt much more malleable.  

 

HOWEVER.

 

After about three days of consecutive dosing, the immediate effects fell by the wayside a little bit and led to what I consider to be a multimodal effect of the drug.  I remember saying this last time I used cere too, about a year and a half ago. Acute Cere effects (after 3 days of consecutive dosing) include a great anxiolytic effect, accompanied by mild brain fog. The initial acute mental stimulation I received did not last past the 3 day mark, and was instead replaced with mild acute brain fog accompanied by said anxiolytic effect. That said, however, it is multimodal in that after the 3 day mark the acute effect seems very different than the effect 12 hours after dosing. 12 hours after dosing the acute brain fog is lifted, and instead replaced by a very refreshed, clear state of mind quite like the initial brain boosting effects I experienced the first 3 days. Not as strong as the initial effects, but nice and enjoyable nonetheless. This is one of the reasons I suggest two days off for every 5 days on. 

 

My reasoning for this multimodal effect:

 

The initial boosting response I received was largely due to the flood of amino acids into my brain. That flood of amino acids by itself won't cause dramatic neurogenesis, but it certainly will boost the effect of neurons already present. Neurogenesis isn't very apparent for the first couple days, and that loading phase is the process by which my brain is acclimating to the Cerebrolysin and preparing for neurogenesis to a larger extent. After 3 days, however, is when the neurogenesis really begins. Any neurogenic compounds I've used so far (Lion's mane, Cerebrolysin, NSI-189, others that I can't remember) have all given mild brain fog as a result of what should be increased neurotrophic factors and increased neurogenesis.  There are many others who report brain fog as a result of neurogenesis/neurogenic compounds as well. As such, when the actual neurogenesis begins to take full force after 3 days, brain fog becomes apparent during its acute mode of action, and this is later followed by the delayed response of clarity caused partially by the remaining amino acids, as well as relaxation from the exhausting effects of neurogenesis.

 

Increased neurogenesis increases use of available resources, which is why I might guess it causes brain fog.  After the mostly neurogenic/neurotrophic compounds have been used (I believe I remember reading that Cerebrolysin maintains action in your body up to 18 hours. I can't remember the source for this, I'll link it if I find it) then your brain relaxes from building neurons and you are no longer using a higher amount of resources. This is what leads to the clarity, as neurons are built for use and you still probably have some amino acids maintained, but you're no longer in that *extreme* building phase.

 

I liken it to physical exercise and working out. When you're building your body, it takes a tremendous amount of energy when you're actually working out. You might feel exhausted after you're done exercising. But some time later, after you're no longer using extreme energy expenditure, you feel fantastic in comparison and you've built strength.  I hope that makes sense in regards to Cerebrolysin.

 

 

Anyway, this is all ultimately conjecture. It's conjecture based on the neuroscience I know and have learned through my University, but it is conjecture nonetheless. If anyone agrees or disagrees with me, obviously feel free to say so as I think it's an important topic for discussion.


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#1922 Sholrak

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 11:10 PM

I can discern an effect while on it (be this, the same day I used, some break days off, just after finished the cycle...) which matchs more or less with what you've said. I remember that feeling it's all being placebo. Until you realize it's not placebo, it takes me about half day since the first cycle dose. Since then, I can start to feel the acute effect clearly, with no anxiety, warmth wave in my body almost constanly, and a fine and maintained motor function (both sympathetic and parasympathetic muscles), better senses appreciation, that 'clean energy' as it's said. By the time I am taking Cere first days, I can't feel the effects at all. I'm just in a hyperattentive yet relaxed (not stimulated) state of mind, when everything upsets me much less, I talk to people in a fresher and more charming way, and I truly know I have more options, actions and thoughts daily.

 

Then, the effects cummulate over the first few days, until you have completed the loading phase, and then the real magic starts. I don't know if neuropeptides action needs some time, or you need to repair some brain damages by a few days. Anyway, at the moment this happens, you are in a second phase, that shares the properties of the first, but in a more complete way. This will be with you until you finish your current cycles. This is the phase where you start to understand the better mind you are enjoying, and when you can start working very hard  improving everything you need or want. Not that the first days you can't,  but now is when you feel like back of that confusing changes, and with your feet on Earth, you start to want, you're HUNGRY to learn new things, to improves acquired skills, to live new experiences, etc...  Here is where you also start to sleep 6-7 hours and wake up like you slept for 10 or 12, very fresh, and motivated. The annoying thing is, still in this phase, you're not self-conscious about your true potential, but you know to a certain degree you are improving faster at everything.

 

So, finished the cycles, there's a comedown phase, there you go from a 100% effect to 0%. It's not you loose all the learned things, I'm talking about the % of increased synaptogenesis and neurogenesis, and learning rate improvement.  It's lasting depends on many factors, mainly the quantity and time taken to use. I would say this lasts months (about 10x the time of cycle), and is the trickiest phase. It's like the effect starts to dissolve veeeery slowly in a way it's hard to notice it. While this phase last, you consolidate whatever improvements Cere gave you, you start to think the cycle at the first, the best part of cycle, you start to see how it goes knowing it's still there but not knowing how much time it will last... By the time you end this comedown, the result is a lot of new learned things in your mind, being "yourself" again, but with a lot of new information and thoughts and skills. Maybe you're not yourself at all, you're a slightly (or clearly, it all depends) better, refined.

 

This is WHY it's so important work hard on Cere. You simply don't know what you are learning at all, until some months later.

 

 

 

Rior, I don't know if are the aminoacids that give that effect until neuropeptides have their function done. I suspect, those neurotrophins we put in our brain, indeed, call to more neurotrophins, even when you are not using Cere (see the comedown phase). In a kind of "the more you spend it, the more it's left". Is this a surviving mechanism to it's maximum exponent or something? The happier you are, the  happier you want to be.

 

I need to read some things about neurology and neurochemistry to understand this completely. I can relate the psychological and conductual dimension of this. Now if I had to say something, I'd say whatever substance/effect Cerebrolysin enhances or products, is a very valuable molecule(s)/process in our bodies, probably designed to reward us, in order to the survival. That could be called: happiness. Happiness is the certainty you are doing things well and the faith you will keep doing them well. Isn't this the area Cere amps up?

 

 

PD: another day I will try to explain my opinion about the 5-0 ml table I posted before. This needs pages and pages and pages xD


Edited by Sholrak, 02 May 2014 - 11:35 PM.

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#1923 BigGuy1980

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 07:19 PM

I agree that it is important to work your mind while on Cerebro, but another item that its as important is your nutrition/diet.

 

For those of you experiencing brain fog, I too have experienced the "fog" effect. What I have noticed, is that the fog onset is caused by not having enough energy to facilitate the activity. 

 

Consider keeping your blood sugar stable by eating every few hours.  Also, you will benefit more from Carbs and fats... I keep my fats low, but use fishoil as a supplement.

 

Diet for your brain is opposite the diet for staying lean/building muscle.  Your brain needs carbs for that energy...

 

I am by no means an expert, but I have used Cerebro for about 2 years now, off and on.. When on, I use 1ml/day.  For me the effects are the same. When I start to notice fog/lethargy, I take a break from studying and go eat (brown rice & chicken). 

 

 



#1924 dunkiez

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 10:13 AM

Just got my first 5ml of cerebrolysin 3 hours ago.

 

No big noticeable effects, I just feel slightly calmer, and less impatient, thoughts seem to slow too, a bit like a mild brain fog, though it seems to allow me to focus better, and not have my thoughts jump all over the place.



#1925 foreseason

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 06:23 AM

Can someone better explain the reasoning behind taking weekends off of cerobrolysin? It seems to be the accepted dosing schedule around here. I'm just curious where this originated and what it is based on.

None of the cero studies I've looked at dosed that way. Unless I've missed something, the only explanation I've seen on the forums is to "give the brain a rest". Is there anything more to this?

#1926 Sholrak

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Posted 12 May 2014 - 05:45 PM

For economy, mainly. Also because you don't want a heightened brain voltage 24/7 during one month.



#1927 foreseason

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Posted 14 May 2014 - 05:04 PM

I recently created a compilation of Cerebrolysin experiences from this mega-thread. 

 

http://www.longecity...es-compilation/


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#1928 dunkiez

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 08:36 AM

had 4 shots of 10ml on a 1 day on, 1 day off schedule so far. 

 

Effects were very subtle, and yet it had a marked anti anxiety effect. While dealing with the highs and lows of life, emotional swings are way lower. Focus has also improved. 



#1929 Flex

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 08:59 AM

I had 2 shots of 10ml a day on irregular intervals.

 

I´ve noticed some acute effects, but after 2-4 weeks felt even better compared to the acute effects.

Therefore I assume that it increases neurogenesis as well.

 



#1930 dunkiez

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 09:03 AM

Are there any comedown effects after stopping the shots? I'm going for a total of 10 shots this round.



#1931 Omnivus

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 11:16 PM

I just bought 20 x 10ml amps of Cerebrolysin from SuperHumanGear. I was wondering if you guys think I should do 10ml a night during the week or just 5ml a night? I was going to cycle it 5 days on, 2 days off on the weekends. Also, is it alright to inject this into your butt? I'm seeing you guys talking about all these different locations, and I'm just wondering what the difference is? I give myself B12 shots in my butt and it doesn't bother me. But the thought of going into a different area kind of scares me. Will it not work as well or get absorbed as well in the glute-max area?

 

Thanks!



#1932 Omnivus

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 11:31 PM

I just bought 20 x 10ml amps of Cerebrolysin from SuperHumanGear. I was wondering if you guys think I should do 10ml a night during the week or just 5ml a night? I was going to cycle it 5 days on, 2 days off on the weekends. Also, is it alright to inject this into your butt? I'm seeing you guys talking about all these different locations, and I'm just wondering what the difference is? I give myself B12 shots in my butt and it doesn't bother me. But the thought of going into a different area kind of scares me. Will it not work as well or get absorbed as well in the glute-max area?

 

Thanks!



#1933 foreseason

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 11:57 PM

There's no definitive answers regarding cerebrolysin use. Read through the thread a few times and make your best call.

I started at 5ml a day and went up to 10. 10 worked better for me but is too much for some people. I injected in my glutes only alternating sides.

5 on 2 off is popular around here. Some do every other day. Some do 3 on 1 off. Some do no breaks. Most people on here would suggest taking some level of breaks.

Edited by foreseason, 19 May 2014 - 12:00 AM.


#1934 Keizo

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 12:02 AM

I have gotten comfortable doing injections in the vastus lateralis  and dorsogluteal area. You probably would want to do some rotation once you add this. Maybe no big deal if you do it all in just a couple of sites, but you'd prevent soreness if nothing else.

If you look at this basic image and google search some http://www.bd.com/hy..._Guidelines.pdf those two are rather easy to locate on your own. The others seem a bit more tricky.

The quads/VL is more uncomfortable in my experience, but really its mostly the outer layer of tissue that provokes anything.

 

Maybe do the b12 in the shoulders, if it is a small quantity and can pass through a very small needle. I was thinking myself of getting something smaller than 25g for the cere,when I do it in the quads, since there isn't much fat, but I don't know.

 

 

 

 


Edited by Keizo, 19 May 2014 - 12:09 AM.


#1935 Sholrak

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 12:06 AM

I just bought 20 x 10ml amps of Cerebrolysin from SuperHumanGear. I was wondering if you guys think I should do 10ml a night during the week or just 5ml a night? I was going to cycle it 5 days on, 2 days off on the weekends. Also, is it alright to inject this into your butt? I'm seeing you guys talking about all these different locations, and I'm just wondering what the difference is? I give myself B12 shots in my butt and it doesn't bother me. But the thought of going into a different area kind of scares me. Will it not work as well or get absorbed as well in the glute-max area?

 

Thanks!

 

As you wish, you can use 5 or 10 ml, both seem valid to me. I recommend 5 ml only because is more economical and also, you'll be fine with 5 ml alone, I see no need to do the 10 ml (although I never did that dose) unless you have something like stroke or whatever.

 

It's usually said Cere inject. must be done as if a B12 IM it was, so, keep that location if that works best for you. The issue with butt is there are more nerves and vessels there. But again, are you fine with gluteus injection, then there won't be trouble with that.



#1936 Omnivus

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 12:43 AM

Thanks for the quick replies! I appreciate the info. I just heard back from the owner of SuperHumanGear and after speaking with him, I am very comfortable and at ease that they are a legitimate company. He even said with the expedited shipping, I should have it within 5 days. I am so stoked! :)


Edited by Jonathan W., 19 May 2014 - 12:45 AM.


#1937 Omnivus

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 01:17 AM

I've been reading through this entire thread and there is just so much information, I am feeling a bit overwhelmed and not able to process it all. So forgive me if I ask any questions that have already been answered. But what nootropic supplments do you all recommend? I know many of you said you don't need anything but Cerebrolysin but I've already got a bunch of supplements so why not use them if they will benefit me? Thanks!


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#1938 Phoenicis

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 03:06 PM

Question - Are people concerned that this is porcine brain derived? In another thread a poster is just now thinking of sequencing the amino acids in it. 

 


Edited by Phoenicis, 19 May 2014 - 03:12 PM.


#1939 Sholrak

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 12:56 AM

I've been reading through this entire thread and there is just so much information, I am feeling a bit overwhelmed and not able to process it all. So forgive me if I ask any questions that have already been answered. But what nootropic supplments do you all recommend? I know many of you said you don't need anything but Cerebrolysin but I've already got a bunch of supplements so why not use them if they will benefit me? Thanks!

 

Tell us what you got and maybe we can help you in that.  The consensus here says (I think) you don't need anything else the day you've taken it or the month you are taking it if you plan a cycle course.

 

Generally speaking CRB seems to be a stabilizer or reseter of your mind among other things, and also affects every else other drug you consume. I'm in example, it will eventually reduce all of your tolerancesif you take a drug regularly (alcohol, tobacco, cannabis...), it interacts with  alcohol. MAOI's, benzos, SSRI's, antidepressants, GABA, colinergic drugs and aminoacids/peptides. It's not dangerous at any, just have to be cautious with those interactions.

 

Cerebrolysin is the second most powerful nootropic existing right now, first is NGF ocular drops (I ignore if those are human however), wich cost very much, but not inaffordable and not a millionarie thing (although it certainly is Cere already for me, hehehe).

 

 

 

Pig shares about 99% or more of genes with homo sapiens sapiens. I try no to worry about that less than 1%, I guess the neurochemical ways and pathways  will be pragmaticaly the same in both pig and humans. There are some tiredness moments while on Cere, I just don't know if it's the glucose aspect or a very mild inmunological reaction. Now you say, I've been thinking in this the last week. My opinions is Switzerland is one of the most reapetable countries in Europe in this matters, and they sure have conducted long term trials about this. There could be something wrong, undoubtely, and my experience says no, it's all benefits, sincerely.


Edited by Sholrak, 20 May 2014 - 01:08 AM.


#1940 Sholrak

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 01:25 AM

Yeah, it finally is human NGF.

 

http://www.sinobiolo...tein-g-454.html

 

For those who didn't know, an italian scientist called Rita Levi discovered NGF and used it since 30 or so and lived more than 100 years, saying in her 80's she felt even better than 50 years earlier, in the 20's. I guess Cere has some imperfections with respect to the NGF, but I'm sure is a biomedical technology wonder on it's own.


Edited by Sholrak, 20 May 2014 - 01:32 AM.


#1941 Phoenicis

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 03:20 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong here but aren't molecules like Neu5Gc problematic in pig to human organ transplants? Porcine neural antigens were also implicated in an outbreak neurological autoimmunity in slaughterhouse workers. I am just wondering if this is an issue with Cerebrolysin?


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#1942 cap3

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 02:01 PM

Hi

 

I have been following this thread for some time and read all the posts. I have ordered some Cere from nootropic.eu and am planning to do 5 days on 2 off for a month and see how it goes.

 

I have never had much luck with other nootropics paracetam/noopept/aniracetam/choline etc, but then a  but am hoping this may help alleviate some of my symptoms brought on by quite heavy MDMA use many years ago.

 

My speech fluency is poor and I suffer from anhedonia. I believe these two issues are what then cause a degree of social anxiety.

 

I was considering using some low dose selegiline sublingually would there be any problems combining that with Cere?

 

My order should arrive soon so I will update my results



#1943 DaneV

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 10:43 PM

So I decided i`m going to give this stuff a go. I Ordered some 10x5ml from nootropic.eu, hoping this will be enough to draw some early conclusions on wether to start a longer trail or not.

 

I also didnt have much luck on nootropics or any psychoactive substances.  The only thing that worked extremely well for me in a clean way, was tianeptine, but unfortunately it suddenly stopped working after 4-5 months and I was never able to get any benefit from it anymore, even after discontinuing it for months. While the MOA of tianeptine is unknown, it seems to induce neurogenisis so i`m kinda hoping I will get some similar results from CRB which are sustainable.

 

I`m hoping to get some improvement in my generalized anxiety, (social) anhedonia, mental fatigue and lack of clarity. I`ll keep you guys updated on my results.

 

I`m still not sure on how to administer it. I`m thinking of buying 25G , 1 inch needles and putting them in my tigh. Or is there any reason to use a different needle or administration site ?

 

 

 



#1944 JASOG888

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 11:11 PM

So I decided i`m going to give this stuff a go. I Ordered some 10x5ml from nootropic.eu, hoping this will be enough to draw some early conclusions on wether to start a longer trail or not.

 

I also didnt have much luck on nootropics or any psychoactive substances.  The only thing that worked extremely well for me in a clean way, was tianeptine, but unfortunately it suddenly stopped working after 4-5 months and I was never able to get any benefit from it anymore, even after discontinuing it for months. While the MOA of tianeptine is unknown, it seems to induce neurogenisis so i`m kinda hoping I will get some similar results from CRB which are sustainable.

 

I`m hoping to get some improvement in my generalized anxiety, (social) anhedonia, mental fatigue and lack of clarity. I`ll keep you guys updated on my results.

 

I`m still not sure on how to administer it. I`m thinking of buying 25G , 1 inch needles and putting them in my tigh. Or is there any reason to use a different needle or administration site ?

 

 

 

 

I use 25G 1 inch needles(in the thigh) to administer it. 5ml a day for a month, weekdays only. I've had great results with it alleviating depression. Mental clarity is another thing I've experienced while using it. After a 1 month cycle, the effects slowly fade away. 
 



#1945 PWAIN

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 11:14 PM

I'm under the impression that the larger the G number, the thinner the needle. Is that correct? Would that then mean that a 30G would be less painful to insert than say a 25G? What are the advantages fo going with a lower G number or a higher G number?



#1946 JASOG888

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 11:17 PM

That is correct. Larger G number=thinner needle. 25G was easily available for me, so that's what I use. I'm sure there would be less discomfort with a 30G.



#1947 foreseason

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 11:33 PM

I think 25 gauge is as small as you should go . Not only would it take forever to inject, I think too small a needle can actually damage the cerebrolysin. I could be wrong but I think I read that on here.

I use 25 and it is virtually painless. If you aren't used to giving yourself IM injections the needle will look big and painful but it really isn't.
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#1948 Sholrak

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Posted 20 May 2014 - 11:55 PM

I used 25g last cycle and now I'm using 23g needles. There's virtually no pain with neither the 23 and 25, but 23 makes it harder to enter thse skin. I would only accept 23 as the maximum size having into account we're not nurses, and the ideal 25. Haven't tested 27g, something tells me 25g is perfect so you don't need anything smaller. However, I used 22G one time and it was surprisingly painful.

 

I have been suffering something I can't relate. With those 23g, sometimes I saw the needles took too much to enter, and when it entered, it felt like it cracked some scar tissue. Is this due to incorrect alcohol healing of the punction or could it be related to 23g being too big in size? Has anyone else suffered this? I switch between left and right inj. and try not to hit the same spot, but it's hard to imagine the 3D structure of the muscle. Nowadays I sometimes feel insecurer than one year ago in the beginning while injecting, and I know that at least 2 times i've hitten gluteus minus instead of gluteus mediu. I guess I need to read more about IM and watch more nursering videos in order to become more accurate on that.



#1949 fj929

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 02:04 AM

Hi

 

I have been following this thread for some time and read all the posts. I have ordered some Cere from nootropic.eu and am planning to do 5 days on 2 off for a month and see how it goes.

 

I have never had much luck with other nootropics paracetam/noopept/aniracetam/choline etc, but then a  but am hoping this may help alleviate some of my symptoms brought on by quite heavy MDMA use many years ago.

 

My speech fluency is poor and I suffer from anhedonia. I believe these two issues are what then cause a degree of social anxiety.

 

I was considering using some low dose selegiline sublingually would there be any problems combining that with Cere?

 

My order should arrive soon so I will update my results

 

You should do the Cere first and see it's effects. Mixing it with Selegiline will not allow you to know what is helping\hurting you.
 


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#1950 cap3

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 05:36 AM

 

Hi

 

I have been following this thread for some time and read all the posts. I have ordered some Cere from nootropic.eu and am planning to do 5 days on 2 off for a month and see how it goes.

 

I have never had much luck with other nootropics paracetam/noopept/aniracetam/choline etc, but then a  but am hoping this may help alleviate some of my symptoms brought on by quite heavy MDMA use many years ago.

 

My speech fluency is poor and I suffer from anhedonia. I believe these two issues are what then cause a degree of social anxiety.

 

I was considering using some low dose selegiline sublingually would there be any problems combining that with Cere?

 

My order should arrive soon so I will update my results

 

You should do the Cere first and see it's effects. Mixing it with Selegiline will not allow you to know what is helping\hurting you.
 

 

 

Yes I think I will, its just tempting to start selegiline as that arrived yesterday!

 

 

So I decided i`m going to give this stuff a go. I Ordered some 10x5ml from nootropic.eu, hoping this will be enough to draw some early conclusions on wether to start a longer trail or not.

 

I also didnt have much luck on nootropics or any psychoactive substances.  The only thing that worked extremely well for me in a clean way, was tianeptine, but unfortunately it suddenly stopped working after 4-5 months and I was never able to get any benefit from it anymore, even after discontinuing it for months. While the MOA of tianeptine is unknown, it seems to induce neurogenisis so i`m kinda hoping I will get some similar results from CRB which are sustainable.

 

I`m hoping to get some improvement in my generalized anxiety, (social) anhedonia, mental fatigue and lack of clarity. I`ll keep you guys updated on my results.

 

I`m still not sure on how to administer it. I`m thinking of buying 25G , 1 inch needles and putting them in my tigh. Or is there any reason to use a different needle or administration site ?

 

 

 

 

I use 25G 1 inch needles(in the thigh) to administer it. 5ml a day for a month, weekdays only. I've had great results with it alleviating depression. Mental clarity is another thing I've experienced while using it. After a 1 month cycle, the effects slowly fade away. 
 

 

 

Thats exactly how i intend on taking it 

 

When you say the results fade away how long did they last for you?

 

I am wondering whether after a few cycles the results last longer, perhaps after a certain number of cycles the effects are more permanent?






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