12 replies to this topic

[jclipka]

I am wondering if anyone on the board has any experience or valid opinions regarding the use of Resveratrol while under a normal daily 75mg dose of Plavix? In my discussions with Rev-Genetics, makers of the P-99 powder, they state that Resveratrol has a similar platelet effect to Plavix and that I should consult my doctor before beginning a regimen. After a long and frustrating conversation with my doctors..it has become obvious that they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. My doctor has chosen to keep me on the Plavix...but was very non-commital about why.

[Danniel]

In my discussions with Rev-Genetics, makers of the P-99 powder, they state that Resveratrol has a similar platelet effect to Plavix and that I should consult my doctor before beginning a regimen. After a long and frustrating conversation with my doctors..it has become obvious that they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. My doctor has chosen to keep me on the Plavix...but was very non-commital about why.

This might be a good hint that you should look for better doctors, who have an idea what they are talking about and are commital about why.

Edited by eugenius, 12 March 2009 - 10:18 AM.

[FedAce]

I am wondering if anyone on the board has any experience or valid opinions regarding the use of Resveratrol while under a normal daily 75mg dose of Plavix? In my discussions with Rev-Genetics, makers of the P-99 powder, they state that Resveratrol has a similar platelet effect to Plavix and that I should consult my doctor before beginning a regimen. After a long and frustrating conversation with my doctors..it has become obvious that they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. My doctor has chosen to keep me on the Plavix...but was very non-commital about why.

I can answer that. Doctors will not give you a firm reason. 1. Resveratrol is still in Trial, and they have NO clue as to what the effects are really. They don't even know how it exactly works. There is No proven clinical trial out yet, so they can't reference what they can say to anything. and Doctors always have to have a proven clinical study if they are to quote or advise a patient on what to do with medications.
2. any reputable physician can't recommend something like Resveratrol that is not proven yet. It would be like your doctor is just guessing without facts. and that is something doctors are taught to NEVER do in their practice.
3. also there is a chance for Lawsuit if something goes wrong by you taking resveratrol instead of Plavix. or taking them together and if drug interaction occurs and something going wrong that way. We have no proven study to tell us,,, yes this is exactly the Drug interaction or the effects of resveratrol. NO Literature, means doctor has no evidence to back them up if they end up in Court room.

Edited by FedAce, 12 March 2009 - 09:55 AM.

[Danniel]

I am wondering if anyone on the board has any experience or valid opinions regarding the use of Resveratrol while under a normal daily 75mg dose of Plavix? In my discussions with Rev-Genetics, makers of the P-99 powder, they state that Resveratrol has a similar platelet effect to Plavix and that I should consult my doctor before beginning a regimen. After a long and frustrating conversation with my doctors..it has become obvious that they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. My doctor has chosen to keep me on the Plavix...but was very non-commital about why.

I can answer that. Doctors will not give you a firm reason. 1. Resveratrol is still in Trial, and they have NO clue as to what the effects are really. They don't even know how it exactly works. There is No proven clinical trial out yet, so they can't reference what they can say to anything. and Doctors always have to have a proven clinical study if they are to quote or advise a patient on what to do with medications.
2. any reputable physician can't recommend something like Resveratrol that is not proven yet. It would be like your doctor is just guessing without facts. and that is something doctors are taught to NEVER do in their practice.
3. also there is a chance for Lawsuit if something goes wrong by you taking resveratrol instead of Plavix. or taking them together and if drug interaction occurs and something going wrong that way. We have no proven study to tell us,,, yes this is exactly the Drug interaction or the effects of resveratrol. NO Literature, means doctor has no evidence to back them up if they end up in Court room.

IMHO, the doctors decision to advice him to continue with both is wrong. If they were informed by the patient that there might be some problems mixing the two and the doctor couldn't (for the reasons you mentioned) discard the Plavix then he should have discarded the resveratrol. He was informed there there might be a risk so he took the decision to expose the patient to the risk. He is liable for a Lawsuit (IMHO).

Edited by eugenius, 12 March 2009 - 08:16 PM.

[geddarkstorm]

I am wondering if anyone on the board has any experience or valid opinions regarding the use of Resveratrol while under a normal daily 75mg dose of Plavix? In my discussions with Rev-Genetics, makers of the P-99 powder, they state that Resveratrol has a similar platelet effect to Plavix and that I should consult my doctor before beginning a regimen. After a long and frustrating conversation with my doctors..it has become obvious that they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. My doctor has chosen to keep me on the Plavix...but was very non-commital about why.

I can answer that. Doctors will not give you a firm reason. 1. Resveratrol is still in Trial, and they have NO clue as to what the effects are really. They don't even know how it exactly works. There is No proven clinical trial out yet, so they can't reference what they can say to anything. and Doctors always have to have a proven clinical study if they are to quote or advise a patient on what to do with medications.
2. any reputable physician can't recommend something like Resveratrol that is not proven yet. It would be like your doctor is just guessing without facts. and that is something doctors are taught to NEVER do in their practice.
3. also there is a chance for Lawsuit if something goes wrong by you taking resveratrol instead of Plavix. or taking them together and if drug interaction occurs and something going wrong that way. We have no proven study to tell us,,, yes this is exactly the Drug interaction or the effects of resveratrol. NO Literature, means doctor has no evidence to back them up if they end up in Court room.

Erm, we know very well how resveratrol works in mammals in vivo, so I have no idea what you mean. But it isn't a medication, it's a natural supplement of something most of us get in our diets at low levels, and human trials are ongoing for higher doses so a doctor won't recommend it for any problem that needs medicating.

Now, if his doctor doesn't know why he's put him on Plavix specifically, which is how I read his post, then that is a poor doctor, I would think.

[niner]

I am wondering if anyone on the board has any experience or valid opinions regarding the use of Resveratrol while under a normal daily 75mg dose of Plavix? In my discussions with Rev-Genetics, makers of the P-99 powder, they state that Resveratrol has a similar platelet effect to Plavix and that I should consult my doctor before beginning a regimen. After a long and frustrating conversation with my doctors..it has become obvious that they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. My doctor has chosen to keep me on the Plavix...but was very non-commital about why.

The doctor is in kind of a tough spot here. He probably has no information on resveratrol. I think a lot of doctors would just say that they don't recommend that you take resveratrol in a situation like this. The main issues would be does resveratrol alter the pharmacokinetics of Plavix, and either via a PK change or for other reasons, does it alter platelet aggregation? Plavix is a prodrug that is oxidized by CYP3A4 and 3A5 to the active compound. Resveratrol is a modest 3A4 inhibitor, so by that activity it could be expected to reduce the activity of Plavix. If resveratrol is also a platelet aggregation inhibitor (an effect I haven't looked into), then it would be acting like Plavix. These two effects, from a theoretical point of view, are opposite each other, though we do not know the magnitude of either effect, so we can't predict which would dominate. There are tons of people taking both Lipitor and Plavix, and Lipitor is known to decrease the activity of Plavix via 3A4 inhibition. If you want to know what's going on when you take either or both of these drugs, you could probably measure your clotting time with neither, Plavix alone, resveratrol alone, and both together.

[2tender]

If you do a word search for "integrated medicine Practitioners" or go to Drweil.com and you may be able to find a qualified MD that has working knowledge of Resveratrol. Integrated Medicine is a field of practice proposed by Dr. Andrew Weil.I hope that helps you. The only person that can give you advice is a qualified Medical Professional that is a Board Certified Doctor in face to face consultation.

Edited by 2tender, 13 March 2009 - 05:19 AM.

[jclipka]

Let me clarify...after a month of back and forth by email with the doctor regarding this issue..the doctor's initial opinion was, that if there was a problem with adding Resveratrol, then don't add it. My response was, "I believe in the potential benefit of this product, and I am going to begin using it...therefore, with that being known, how should I deal with the potential conflict between Resveratrol and Plavix? Should we drop the Plavix and test regularly until we are sure the Resveratrol is doing the job in it's place, or wait...and see if we have a problem? His response was to keep me on the Plavix...but basically...they have no idea how to guide me because there is no legitamate testing that is accepted by the medical community.
So...here I am in a community of highly educated people with a different point of view...I'm not looking for someone to sue. I'm looking for educated opinions..
John

I am wondering if anyone on the board has any experience or valid opinions regarding the use of Resveratrol while under a normal daily 75mg dose of Plavix? In my discussions with Rev-Genetics, makers of the P-99 powder, they state that Resveratrol has a similar platelet effect to Plavix and that I should consult my doctor before beginning a regimen. After a long and frustrating conversation with my doctors..it has become obvious that they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. My doctor has chosen to keep me on the Plavix...but was very non-commital about why.

I can answer that. Doctors will not give you a firm reason. 1. Resveratrol is still in Trial, and they have NO clue as to what the effects are really. They don't even know how it exactly works. There is No proven clinical trial out yet, so they can't reference what they can say to anything. and Doctors always have to have a proven clinical study if they are to quote or advise a patient on what to do with medications.
2. any reputable physician can't recommend something like Resveratrol that is not proven yet. It would be like your doctor is just guessing without facts. and that is something doctors are taught to NEVER do in their practice.
3. also there is a chance for Lawsuit if something goes wrong by you taking resveratrol instead of Plavix. or taking them together and if drug interaction occurs and something going wrong that way. We have no proven study to tell us,,, yes this is exactly the Drug interaction or the effects of resveratrol. NO Literature, means doctor has no evidence to back them up if they end up in Court room.

IMHO, the doctors decision to advice him to continue with both is wrong. If they were informed by the patient that there might be some problems mixing the two and the doctor couldn't (for the reasons you mentioned) discard the Plavix then he should have discarded the resveratrol. He was informed there there might be a risk so he took the decision to expose the patient to the risk. He is liable for a Lawsuit (IMHO).

[jclipka]

Thank you..yes..very helpful. I am on Lipitor and Plavix, by the way.
John

I am wondering if anyone on the board has any experience or valid opinions regarding the use of Resveratrol while under a normal daily 75mg dose of Plavix? In my discussions with Rev-Genetics, makers of the P-99 powder, they state that Resveratrol has a similar platelet effect to Plavix and that I should consult my doctor before beginning a regimen. After a long and frustrating conversation with my doctors..it has become obvious that they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. My doctor has chosen to keep me on the Plavix...but was very non-commital about why.

The doctor is in kind of a tough spot here. He probably has no information on resveratrol. I think a lot of doctors would just say that they don't recommend that you take resveratrol in a situation like this. The main issues would be does resveratrol alter the pharmacokinetics of Plavix, and either via a PK change or for other reasons, does it alter platelet aggregation? Plavix is a prodrug that is oxidized by CYP3A4 and 3A5 to the active compound. Resveratrol is a modest 3A4 inhibitor, so by that activity it could be expected to reduce the activity of Plavix. If resveratrol is also a platelet aggregation inhibitor (an effect I haven't looked into), then it would be acting like Plavix. These two effects, from a theoretical point of view, are opposite each other, though we do not know the magnitude of either effect, so we can't predict which would dominate. There are tons of people taking both Lipitor and Plavix, and Lipitor is known to decrease the activity of Plavix via 3A4 inhibition. If you want to know what's going on when you take either or both of these drugs, you could probably measure your clotting time with neither, Plavix alone, resveratrol alone, and both together.

[jclipka]

Agreed..
John

In my discussions with Rev-Genetics, makers of the P-99 powder, they state that Resveratrol has a similar platelet effect to Plavix and that I should consult my doctor before beginning a regimen. After a long and frustrating conversation with my doctors..it has become obvious that they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. My doctor has chosen to keep me on the Plavix...but was very non-commital about why.

This might be a good hint that you should look for better doctors, who have an idea what they are talking about and are commital about why.

[jclipka]

Yes, I'll do that. Now all In have to do is find one that I can talk Kaiser into paying..lol
John

If you do a word search for "integrated medicine Practitioners" or go to Drweil.com and you may be able to find a qualified MD that has working knowledge of Resveratrol. Integrated Medicine is a field of practice proposed by Dr. Andrew Weil.I hope that helps you. The only person that can give you advice is a qualified Medical Professional that is a Board Certified Doctor in face to face consultation.

[geddarkstorm]

Agreed..
John

In my discussions with Rev-Genetics, makers of the P-99 powder, they state that Resveratrol has a similar platelet effect to Plavix and that I should consult my doctor before beginning a regimen. After a long and frustrating conversation with my doctors..it has become obvious that they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. My doctor has chosen to keep me on the Plavix...but was very non-commital about why.

This might be a good hint that you should look for better doctors, who have an idea what they are talking about and are commital about why.

Well now, if what you meant before was that your doctor simply didn't know what interactions with Plavix could occur when adding resveratrol, and hence why he wanted to keep you on Plavix and not resv, then that isn't a bad doctor by any means.

It's a tough spot, I don't think any medical experiment has been done looking at the two together, which is what he and we would need to see to say anything definitely. Resveratrol may be pretty dang good at inhibiting platelet aggregation at concentrations easily attainable for us; and at lower doses than it needs for inhibiting of CYP3A4 which suggests resveratrol's blood thinning properties might win out over its inhibition of Plavix activation. Therein, the two together could be dangerous, depending on how they interact, which is why your doctor is wisely not wanting to mix the two. Dosage would be the key factor between the two chemicals, but without a specific study for this it's all just a shot in the dark.

[nikmetax]

Agreed..
John

In my discussions with Rev-Genetics, makers of the P-99 powder, they state that Resveratrol has a similar platelet effect to Plavix and that I should consult my doctor before beginning a regimen. After a long and frustrating conversation with my doctors..it has become obvious that they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. My doctor has chosen to keep me on the Plavix...but was very non-commital about why.

This might be a good hint that you should look for better doctors, who have an idea what they are talking about and are commital about why.

Well now, if what you meant before was that your doctor simply didn't know what interactions with Plavix could occur when adding resveratrol, and hence why he wanted to keep you on Plavix and not resv, then that isn't a bad doctor by any means.

It's a tough spot, I don't think any medical experiment has been done looking at the two together, which is what he and we would need to see to say anything definitely. Resveratrol may be pretty dang good at inhibiting platelet aggregation at concentrations easily attainable for us; and at lower doses than it needs for inhibiting of CYP3A4 which suggests resveratrol's blood thinning properties might win out over its inhibition of Plavix activation. Therein, the two together could be dangerous, depending on how they interact, which is why your doctor is wisely not wanting to mix the two. Dosage would be the key factor between the two chemicals, but without a specific study for this it's all just a shot in the dark.

I ask Biotivia and send me this mail:
Resveratrol has additive effect when used along with anti-hypertensive drugs like carvepen. Dose adjustment is a must after closely monitoring the situation.
The another drug referred here was clodipogrel (Plavix) an anti-platelet aggregator. Resveratrol has intrinsic anti-platelet aggregation activity. Use of Bioforte containing resveratrol 250 mg along with other polyphenols and peicid form would definitely increase the overall activity. An ideal condition would be anti-platelet activity with decrease in serum lipid levels (LDL) and increase in HDL levels.
The exact mechanism of anti-platelet activity of resveratrol is unknown since resveratrol at various concentrations significantly inhibited platelet aggregation induced by collagen, thrombin, and ADP in a concentration- dependent manner (minimum of 4 mg /kg/day). On the contrary resveratrol does not decrease the serum lipid levels especially LDL and increase in HDL is minimal.

Patients having history of higher cholesterol and taking anti-platelet aggregator medicines should be cautious while using resveratrol. It may increase the risk of bleeding and even LDL levels.
Bioforte/Transmax is safe to used but with proper dose adjustment. Maybe a two week wash-out period would definitely help. After two weeks, Nikmetax can start with 1 Bioforte capsule per day.