27 replies to this topic

[mentatpsi]

I've read that the formula needs to be refrigerated in order to be good, is this true?

[luv2increase]

Only the pure R-ALA needs refrigeration. If you have regular ALA, which I believe to be superior due to the evidence that the S-enantiomer slows down the clearance of the more beneficial R-enantiomer, you just need to keep it is a cool, dark place. Also, the Na-rala doesn't need to be refrigerated either.

[shaggy]

Only the pure R-ALA needs refrigeration. If you have regular ALA, which I believe to be superior due to the evidence that the S-enantiomer slows down the clearance of the more beneficial R-enantiomer, you just need to keep it is a cool, dark place. Also, the Na-rala doesn't need to be refrigerated either.

Why would you want to slow down the clearance...?

I thought recent evidence suggests that you want R-ALA out of your system quickly and that timed or sustained release formula's were not a good idea?

[luv2increase]

Why would you want to slow down the clearance...?

So the positive effects can be prolonged within the body. Why else? Why take it at all then if you want it in and out in a flash? lol

I thought recent evidence suggests that you want R-ALA out of your system quickly and that timed or sustained release formula's were not a good idea?

Source...

[krillin]

I thought recent evidence suggests that you want R-ALA out of your system quickly and that timed or sustained release formula's were not a good idea?

Source...

http://relentlessimp...gainst_crla.pdf

[Barksdale]

I've heard that it might cause hairloss or that it turns your hair grey. What do you guys think about? Deff not what I want lol.

[VampIyer]

I've heard that it might cause hairloss or that it turns your hair grey. What do you guys think about? Deff not what I want lol.

Source?

If true, I wouldn't take it. I don't regularly take more than is in Orthocore, however.

[Barksdale]

I've heard that it might cause hairloss or that it turns your hair grey. What do you guys think about? Deff not what I want lol.

Source?

If true, I wouldn't take it. I don't regularly take more than is in Orthocore, however.

I read it at the lef.org forum, don't know more than that..

[luv2increase]

I thought recent evidence suggests that you want R-ALA out of your system quickly and that timed or sustained release formula's were not a good idea?

Source...

http://relentlessimp...gainst_crla.pdf

Wow... That is against the use of sustained-release ALA. It isn't against the use of ALA. Also, I don't even believe there are any studies dating back to 1955 for R-ALA. In fact, on pubmed, the earliest study on r-ala was in 1997 LOL!

All relentlessimprovement sells is the R-ALA, and they are quoting studies that are irrelevant in that linked document. They make it out like they are the good guy in talking about marketing scams etc..., yet they are blatantly doing it themselves. PITIFUL.

[Shepard]

Wow... That is against the use of sustained-release ALA. It isn't against the use of ALA. Also, I don't even believe there are any studies dating back to 1955 for R-ALA. In fact, on pubmed, the earliest study on r-ala was in 1997 LOL!

All relentlessimprovement sells is the R-ALA, and they are quoting studies that are irrelevant in that linked document. They make it out like they are the good guy in talking about marketing scams etc..., yet they are blatantly doing it themselves. PITIFUL.

No, what's pitiful is an individual jumping to such conclusions and emotion without rationally examining the document. Look at the authors (not from RI), and look at the studies from 1955 you're talking about. They're about lipoic acid use in general, and were quoted as such in the article.

[luv2increase]

Look at the authors (not from RI), and look at the studies from 1955 you're talking about. They're about lipoic acid use in general, and were quoted as such in the article.

Exactly! It is like a company selling creatine phosphate and posting articles which deal with creatine monohydrate... Come on shepard; I can't believe you didn't understand that.

[david ellis]

Wow... That is against the use of sustained-release ALA. It isn't against the use of ALA. Also, I don't even believe there are any studies dating back to 1955 for R-ALA. In fact, on pubmed, the earliest study on r-ala was in 1997 LOL!

All relentlessimprovement sells is the R-ALA, and they are quoting studies that are irrelevant in that linked document. They make it out like they are the good guy in talking about marketing scams etc..., yet they are blatantly doing it themselves. PITIFUL.

Luv2increase did you read the paper? - the point I got from reading it was that the way ALA works is not as an antioxidant. ALA turns on genes and genes then increase the endogenous levels of antioxidants. The quick spike and clearing of ALA in the blood is the way ALA works. "The theory that LA acts as a direct scavenger of free radicals, or that it acts directly as an ‘antioxidant’ in the cell has been disregarded as a valid theory by most LA experts several years ago." A once a day, quick spike in the blood is effective for a hormetic like ALA.

From Krillin's link
"LA induces a beneficial stress response: Evidence indicates the in vivo mechanisms of action of LA involve activation of the natural environmental stress response systems which up-regulate the so-called ‘early response genes’, thus activating Phase II detoxification enzymes via Nr-f2 and the antioxidant response element (ARE) (63). Activation of these genetic systems is nature’s way of making the body more adaptable to stress and environmental insults. One physiological result of Nr-f2 and ARE activation is a significant increase of endogenous antioxidants (vitamin C, vitamin E, GSH, etc.) and antioxidant enzyme systems (64, 86) Despite its abbreviated half-life, this is how LA is able to affect the redox status of the cell, not by acting as a direct scavenger of free radicals. The theory that LA acts as a direct scavenger of free radicals, or that it acts directly as an ‘antioxidant’ in the cell has been disregarded as a valid theory by most LA experts several years ago (6) and yet is still being advanced by the advocates of CRLA. To date there is lack of evidence that LA acts this way in vivo and a large body of research demonstrating the ‘stress-response’ theory of action for therapeutic LA. Thus, the misguided or ill-conceived basis for suggesting increased efficacy of CRLA products due to their increased “free-radical scavenging” or “antioxidant properties” due to an increased MRT forms an erroneous rationale."

[Shepard]

What?

Post: I thought recent evidence suggests that you want R-ALA out of your system quickly and that timed or sustained release formula's were not a good idea?


Response: Source...


Source Provided: http://relentlessimp...gainst_crla.pdf[/quote]

Name of paper: The case against controlled release lipoic acid

And since you argued "If you have regular ALA, which I believe to be superior due to the evidence that the S-enantiomer slows down the clearance of the more beneficial R-enantiomer", the rebuttal was "dude, you don't want to slow it down because it's not a 1980s antioxidant commercial".

[luv2increase]

"dude, you don't want to slow it down because it's not a 1980s antioxidant commercial".

I can't believe you both are trying to spew propaganda that ALA is not an antioxidant... Did you not know that a chemical can have more than one mechanisms of action? All that Relentless article told me is that ALA works in more ways than just an antioxidant.


Go here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/


Search "alpha lipoic acid antioxidant" ---> You shall come up with 2339 hits.


Enjoy and happy reading. It is the only way you'll learn Shepard. Trust me though; it will pay off in the end.


Cheers

[sentinel]

*puts popcorn in microwave*

[FunkOdyssey]

I can't believe you both are trying to spew propaganda that ALA is not an antioxidant...

Enjoy and happy reading. It is the only way you'll learn Shepard. Trust me though; it will pay off in the end.

luv2increase: the deliberately combative, abrasive style of your posting is not serving you well, especially on a thread like this where you've taken the wrong position. This would be a good time to retreat to a quiet place and eat a slice of humble pie before it gets forcefully shoved down your throat.

[luv2increase]

I can't believe you both are trying to spew propaganda that ALA is not an antioxidant...

Enjoy and happy reading. It is the only way you'll learn Shepard. Trust me though; it will pay off in the end.

luv2increase: the deliberately combative, abrasive style of your posting is not serving you well, especially on a thread like this where you've taken the wrong position. This would be a good time to retreat to a quiet place and eat a slice of humble pie before it gets forcefully shoved down your throat.

What is abusive and/or combative about any of that? lol


The statement you made Funky, "forcefully shoved down my throat", on the other hand, is undoubtedly abusive and combative. Not to mention, it is quite disgusting as well.

[FunkOdyssey]

I'm not the one that is going to make you eat the humble pie -- I'm enjoying this one from the sidelines along with sentinel. I was just trying to do you a favor with the friendly heads up, providing you with an opportunity to soften your stance a little before shepard posts again (and the real abuse begins).

[nowayout]

"dude, you don't want to slow it down because it's not a 1980s antioxidant commercial".

I'm not that up on the supposed usefulness of ALA (wouldn't touch it with a ten-yard stick) but I'm going to ask a stupid question anyway. I believe some people who work out and want to cut, or who are borderline diabetic, apparently take it because of its purported effect on blood sugar metabolism. In that case I don't think they necessarily want fast clearance, do they?

[Shepard]

I'm not that up on the supposed usefulness of ALA (wouldn't touch it with a ten-yard stick) but I'm going to ask a stupid question anyway. I believe some people who work out and want to cut, or who are borderline diabetic, apparently take it because of its purported effect on blood sugar metabolism. In that case I don't think they necessarily want fast clearance, do they?

Whether or not you'd want fast or sustained clearance, you don't want the S enantiomer present (1). On top of that, the idea of using lipoic acid to aid in weight loss for bodybuilders is faulty, it's not tissue specific (2) and would be a waste of time. Nice for diabetics, though.

Edited by Shepard, 16 March 2009 - 06:07 PM.

[Shepard]

I can't believe you both are trying to spew propaganda that ALA is not an antioxidant... Did you not know that a chemical can have more than one mechanisms of action? All that Relentless article told me is that ALA works in more ways than just an antioxidant.

I had hoped that you would understand my comment. I suppose I was incorrect. Or, you're just grasping at straws to remain relevant in the conversation.

From an in vivo standpoint, the term "antioxidant" is meaningless as it's used in modern alternative medicine. It's like picking a point out of a random function and claiming it as the average. That is what was meant by my "1980s antioxidant" comment.

We could rehash the research, but the authors of the above paper have already done a thorough job. I suggest you get to reading it. If you take issue with specific points or interpretations of the papers, then we'll talk. If you even want the full-text of some of those papers, PM me and I'll see if I have access.

[meursault]

I can't believe you both are trying to spew propaganda that ALA is not an antioxidant...

Enjoy and happy reading. It is the only way you'll learn Shepard. Trust me though; it will pay off in the end.

luv2increase: the deliberately combative, abrasive style of your posting is not serving you well, especially on a thread like this where you've taken the wrong position. This would be a good time to retreat to a quiet place and eat a slice of humble pie before it gets forcefully shoved down your throat.

What is abusive and/or combative about any of that? lol


The statement you made Funky, "forcefully shoved down my throat", on the other hand, is undoubtedly abusive and combative. Not to mention, it is quite disgusting as well.

Underlining every word in three sentences would appear, to most readers, as obnoxious. Telling someone that the only way to learn is by reading is condescending.


Your absence from these forums was wonderful. I hope either you'll mature soon or take another long break.

[shaggy]

Woah...after a slow start this thread has warmed up nicely. Some good information.

Thank you to krillin for posting the paper I was thinking of.

Have a good day/evening all....

[luv2increase]

Underlining every word in three sentences would appear, to most readers, as obnoxious. Telling someone that the only way to learn is by reading is condescending.


Your absence from these forums was wonderful. I hope either you'll mature soon or take another long break.

This isn't a flame war czukles. If you aren't going to post maturely, then I suggest not to at all. Thanks.



I think ALA is one of the greatest substances (antioxidants) there is. I'm happy it isn't ONLY just an antioxidant but rather a sorta jack of all trades type of supplement. You must admit that the studies done with it in cahoots with ALCAR are pretty darned remarkable, especially when it comes to life-extension. This would put the ALA/ALCAR combo as a top priority in anyone's stack at this point. It is really one of the only few things we have to work off of until Aubrey or his acquaintances find that cure to aging using a different venue than supplementation

[krillin]

I'm not that up on the supposed usefulness of ALA (wouldn't touch it with a ten-yard stick) but I'm going to ask a stupid question anyway. I believe some people who work out and want to cut, or who are borderline diabetic, apparently take it because of its purported effect on blood sugar metabolism. In that case I don't think they necessarily want fast clearance, do they?

Once-daily works for diabetic neuropathy too.

Diabetes Care. 2006 Nov;29(11):2365-70.
Oral treatment with alpha-lipoic acid improves symptomatic diabetic polyneuropathy: the SYDNEY 2 trial.
Ziegler D, Ametov A, Barinov A, Dyck PJ, Gurieva I, Low PA, Munzel U, Yakhno N, Raz I, Novosadova M, Maus J, Samigullin R.
FRCPE, Deutsche Diabetes-Klinik, Deutsches Diabetes-Zentrum, Leibniz-Institut an der Heinrich-Heine-Universität, Auf'm Hennekamp 65, 40225 Düsseldorf, Germany. dan.ziegler@ddz.uni-duesseldorf.de

OBJECTIVE: The aim of this trial was to evaluate the effects of alpha-lipoic acid (ALA) on positive sensory symptoms and neuropathic deficits in diabetic patients with distal symmetric polyneuropathy (DSP). RESEARCH DESIGN AND METHODS: In this multicenter, randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial, 181 diabetic patients in Russia and Israel received once-daily oral doses of 600 mg (n = 45) (ALA600), 1,200 mg (n = 47) (ALA1200), and 1,800 mg (ALA1800) of ALA (n = 46) or placebo (n = 43) for 5 weeks after a 1-week placebo run-in period. The primary outcome measure was the change from baseline of the Total Symptom Score (TSS), including stabbing pain, burning pain, paresthesia, and asleep numbness of the feet. Secondary end points included individual symptoms of TSS, Neuropathy Symptoms and Change (NSC) score, Neuropathy Impairment Score (NIS), and patients' global assessment of efficacy. RESULTS: Mean TSS did not differ significantly at baseline among the treatment groups and on average decreased by 4.9 points (51%) in ALA600, 4.5 (48%) in ALA1200, and 4.7 (52%) in ALA1800 compared with 2.9 points (32%) in the placebo group (all P < 0.05 vs. placebo). The corresponding response rates (>/=50% reduction in TSS) were 62, 50, 56, and 26%, respectively. Significant improvements favoring all three ALA groups were also noted for stabbing and burning pain, the NSC score, and the patients' global assessment of efficacy. The NIS was numerically reduced. Safety analysis showed a dose-dependent increase in nausea, vomiting, and vertigo. CONCLUSIONS: Oral treatment with ALA for 5 weeks improved neuropathic symptoms and deficits in patients with DSP. An oral dose of 600 mg once daily appears to provide the optimum risk-to-benefit ratio.

PMID: 17065669

[normalizing]

is it good idea to take ALA for hangover prevention? supposedly it encourages antioxidant activity to help out with all the negative process involved in hangover. but i was thinking, since it encourages stress in a way to help you adapt, having already the stress of hangover, doesnt that over-add?

[krillin]

I think it would be best used on a continuing basis as preconditioning, since it increases aldehyde dehydrogenase-2 (PMID: 23238616). That enzyme metabolizes acetaldehyde, which I think is what causes a lot of the problems. I haven't had alcohol since 1997 so I can't confirm if it works.

[normalizing]

so i guess its good idea to take it before drinking instead of after. i was told the same about NAC, but as many times as i have tried this tactic, it always fails and hangover is always the same. i guess individually things should be trial and error until a conclusion is formed *sigh*