265 replies to this topic

[425runner]

You can buy Noopept on ebay, Cerebral Health has it listed 10 grams for $49.95 or something like that....I bought 1 grams to test it out first. Doesn't seem to get along with my ADHD medication, Dexedrine ER 15mg, so will try without tomorrow. Overall it seems very promising, I feel mentally stimulated and very motivated. More so then from just taking Dexedrine. I hope this works, it'd be wonderful if I could get off those amphet based meds and be able to have laser sharp focus.

Has anyone noticed if it improved their mood or depression? So far, I see most people saying it made them irritable and angry.

[MrHappy]

Superiornutraceuticals.com has 5g for $25. I've ordered products from them a number of times with no issues.

[knutsayang]

Interestingly I found this source online. It's expensive as hell but it's made in canada for research purposes. Administered using a dropper.

http://www.canadapep...hp?prod=NOOPEPT

10mg/ml in a 60ml vial costing $124, im assuming canadian dollars. What that like 0.6 g for $120? haha. But i guess you can be assured of quality and that it's the real thing :p

Has anyone ever had anything ordered direct from manufacturers in Asia through Alibaba? I mean not only Noopept but any supplement? There's plenty of people producing noopept. You could be getting some random white powder instead of noopept though :/

http://www.alibaba.c...uct_direct_0820

[gizmobrain]

SmartPowders.com has talked about carrying noopept in the near future.

[SummerUser]

Google Translate does a decent job translating noopept.com, but if you have trouble with any part, just post it here.
I can translate it for you There are a few misconception about how to use it. The original site states that you use it orally.

Ноопепт® применяется внутрь, после еды.

Basically it states that you swallow it after meal. Noopept pill consist of cellulose, lactose, potato starch, povidone and magnesium stearate. I've no idea if it's more bioavailable than powder.
And about the toxicity of Noopept:
It's OTC in Russia, it's as easy to buy as say aspirin. The only problem you will encounter is availability on the market because it's a niche product and quite costly for Russians. Still it's much more useful and popular than piracetam. Russian doctors prescribe piracetam for almost every CNS disorders, it's not some miracle drug and in most cases it doesn't even help. If you read some Russian forums, Noopept has a very good reputation with 9/10 score in most cases. I hate the fact that I've no way to buy it right now, because of my life situation. So it'll be a powder form for me too.
And I doubt that you need to supplement choline with Noopept. It's not really a racetam and function differently. It even stated on the site that during the medical trials any form of tolerance to the drug or withdrawals symptoms were not present.
P.S. To describe how niche Noopept is I can tell you that I've found out about it on reddit lol. If I new about it a few month ago I would stack on it for sure. I haven't been very active on russian part of the net recently, my own fault.

Edited by SummerUser, 27 June 2012 - 09:16 PM.

[manic_racetam]

Google Translate does a decent job translating noopept.com, but if you have trouble with any part, just post it here.
I can translate it for you There are a few misconception about how to use it. The original site states that you use it orally.

Ноопепт® применяется внутрь, после еды.

Basically it states that you swallow it after meal. Noopept pill consist of cellulose, lactose, potato starch, povidone and magnesium stearate. I've no idea if it's more bioavailable than powder.
And about the toxicity of Noopept:
It's OTC in Russia, it's as easy to buy as say aspirin. The only problem you will encounter is availability on the market because it's a niche product and quite costly for Russians. Still it's much more useful and popular than piracetam. Russian doctors prescribe piracetam for almost every CNS disorders, it's not some miracle drug and in most cases it doesn't even help. If you read some Russian forums, Noopept has a very good reputation with 9/10 score in most cases. I hate the fact that I've no way to buy it right now, because of my life situation. So it'll be a powder form for me too.
And I doubt that you need to supplement choline with Noopept. It's not really a racetam and function differently. It even stated on the site that during the medical trials any form of tolerance to the drug or withdrawals symptoms were not present.
P.S. To describe how niche Noopept is I can tell you that I've found out about it on reddit lol. If I new about it a few month ago I would stack on it for sure. I haven't been very active on russian part of the net recently, my own fault.

Finally! Thanks so much for confirming this once and for all. Noopept, recommended to be taken orally (not sublingually).

[MrHappy]

I'm going to try stacking noopept with LM22A-4. I think it will enhance the effects and prevent the apparent need washout after 3 months.

[SummerUser]

Finally! Thanks so much for confirming this once and for all. Noopept, recommended to be taken orally (not sublingually).

From the documentation on their site it's kind of obvious that the drug was designed for oral use. You can even find this statement there:

Ноопепт® является ноотропным препаратом пептидной структуры. Уникальность Ноопепта состоит в том, что в организме он образует активный метаболит, идентичный эндогенному дипептиду с ноотропной активностью, что физиологично и безопасно для человека.

It states that:
Noopept ® is a nootropic drug of the peptide structure. Noopept uniqueness lies in the fact that it forms an active metabolite in the body, which is identical to the endogenous dipeptide with nootropic activity (it's physioligical and safe for humans).
So basically you get effects from a compound that Noopept metabolizes into. They making a point that it's a much more natural way and therefore better/more safe than piracetam.

I'm going to try stacking noopept with LM22A-4. I think it will enhance the effects and prevent the apparent need washout after 3 months.

I say go for it. Here is the firt question in theirs FAQ:

Can I use Noopept with other psychotropic drugs?
Noopept has no drug interactions, and is compatible with other centrally acting drugs.

I plan to read some more feedback from russian users, and will probably post highlights right in this thread. Piracetam and Glycine are two very popular drugs in Russia. From my understanding they are very mild and Noopept was designed to have the very best of them two. Manufacturer trying to hype the drug (you can see a few ads on youtube), but the price is too high imo. Especially if you consider russian wages, haha.
Have a nice day/night.

Edited by SummerUser, 28 June 2012 - 03:45 PM.

[SummerUser]

To end the oral/sublingual debate for good (from the faq on noopept.com):

Noopept, in contrast to glycine, has a stabilizing effect on autonomic nervous system and is administered orally, whereas glycine is digested in the gut and not absorbed.

Pharmacokinetics
Noopept ® gets absorbed in the gastrointestinal tract and enters blood stream unchanged. It easily crosses the blood-brain barrier and the higher concentration of it is present in the brain than in blood. It takes an average of 15 minutes to reach maximum concentration. The half-life in plasma is 0.34 hour. The drug is partially preserved unchanged, partly metabolized with the formation of phenylacetic acid, phenylacetyl proline and cyclopropyl glycine. It has a bioavailability as high as 99.7%.

So the metabolite they are refering to is probably this cyclopropyl glycine.

Edited by SummerUser, 28 June 2012 - 04:07 PM.

[Googoltarian]

and cyclopropyl glycine

So the metabolite they are refering to is probably this cyclopropyl glycine.

Its cycloprolyl, not cyclopropyl. I corrected this on wikipedia, but now I see from where this mistake origins.
 glycines.gif   7.52KB   19 downloads

[gizmobrain]

I'm going to try stacking noopept with LM22A-4. I think it will enhance the effects and prevent the apparent need washout after 3 months.

You found a source already?

[SummerUser]

and cyclopropyl glycine

So the metabolite they are refering to is probably this cyclopropyl glycine.

Its cycloprolyl, not cyclopropyl. I corrected this on wikipedia, but now I see from where this mistake origins.
 glycines.gif   7.52KB   19 downloads

Glad I could help, even if indirectly
I'm no chemist and "translated" this bit purely phoneticaly, so it seems I changed L to P. I see I wasn't the first one though.
Btw Noopept isn't as well known on the russian part of the internet as I thought. Allmost all info about it is a useless atempt to hype it. I doubt that it sells that well, considering. It's a very niche product, so the company that owns it is trying it's best to promote Noopept.

Edited by SummerUser, 28 June 2012 - 06:27 PM.

[MrHappy]

I'm going to try stacking noopept with LM22A-4. I think it will enhance the effects and prevent the apparent need washout after 3 months.

You found a source already?

Yes, but it's not publicly / commercially available. I'm going to participate in study.

[X_Danny_X]

I'm going to try stacking noopept with LM22A-4. I think it will enhance the effects and prevent the apparent need washout after 3 months.

How is Lm22A-4 be effective with Noopept? Lm22a-4 helps patients or mice to help recover from a stroke. How does this drug synergize with Noopept????

[gizmobrain]

How is Lm22A-4 be effective with Noopept? Lm22a-4 helps patients or mice to help recover from a stroke. How does this drug synergize with Noopept????

Noopept increases BDNF. Constant exposure to BDNF causes down-regulation of TrkB. LM22A-4 increases the amount of TrkB receptors.

A collection of posts by MrHappy

Noopept increases BDNF:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/19240853/

BDNF and NGF, for starters. Increasing AC pathway efficiency is another effect.

Constant exposure to BDNF causes down-regulation of TrkB:

This could be quite helpful, as it would appear that constant exposure to BDNF lead to down-regulation of TrkB:
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8752592

LM22A-4 increases the amount of TrkB receptors:

Further reading show that it works by increasing the amount of TrkB receptors, which BDNF then binds to.

http://www.jneurosci...5/1803.abstract

http://kenes.com/bra...cts/pdf/755.pdf


Methods: Five month old mice were trained on three tasks (ladder, Noldus Catwalk and
rotarod) prior to stroke or sham surgery. After stroke, rotarod and ladder test results were used
to randomize mice into two equally impaired groups. Mice received either 0.22 mg/kg LM22A-4
or saline vehicle, given intranasally, beginning 3 days after stroke, and were treated daily until
ten weeks after stroke. Fifty mg/kg BrdU was also administered on days 3-8.

Results: After stroke, LM22A-4 treatment improved limb swing speed on Catwalk, and gait
accuracy on ladder testing (P = 0.0032 and 0.0289, respectively, repeated measures ANOVA).
There was no recovery in rotarod testing in either group. Stereological analysis of BrdU+/NeuN+
cells revealed that LM22A-4 treatment increased neurogenesis in areas adjacent to the stroke
core. We found a 1.8-fold increase in BrdU+ mature neurons in penumbral cortex and a 2.7-fold
increase in dorsolateral striatum (P = 0.004 and < 0.0001, respectively, Student's t test), but no
significant increase in the unaffected ventral striatum. Immunostaining for the immature
neuronal marker doublecortin also demonstrated a two-fold increase in LM22A-4-treated
animals. Golgi staining revealed no drug-induced differences in dendritic complexity in
contralateral motor cortex and dorsal lateral striatum.

Conclusions: Increased TrkB pathway activation improves recovery from stroke and increases
neurogenesis. LM22A-4 or its derivatives might therefore serve as “pro-recovery” therapeutic
agents for people with stroke.

http://www.jci.org/a.../41356/figure/8

This PDF includes in-vitro receptor binding assays:
http://www.google.co...nAuZUUw&cad=rja

Edited by zrbarnes, 29 June 2012 - 01:08 AM.

[X_Danny_X]

How is Lm22A-4 be effective with Noopept? Lm22a-4 helps patients or mice to help recover from a stroke. How does this drug synergize with Noopept????

Noopept increases BDNF. Constant exposure to BDNF causes down-regulation of TrkB. LM22A-4 increases the amount of TrkB receptors.

A collection of posts by MrHappy

Noopept increases BDNF:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....ubmed/19240853/

BDNF and NGF, for starters. Increasing AC pathway efficiency is another effect.

Constant exposure to BDNF causes down-regulation of TrkB:

This could be quite helpful, as it would appear that constant exposure to BDNF lead to down-regulation of TrkB:
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8752592

LM22A-4 increases the amount of TrkB receptors:

Further reading show that it works by increasing the amount of TrkB receptors, which BDNF then binds to.

http://www.jneurosci...5/1803.abstract

http://kenes.com/bra...cts/pdf/755.pdf


Methods: Five month old mice were trained on three tasks (ladder, Noldus Catwalk and
rotarod) prior to stroke or sham surgery. After stroke, rotarod and ladder test results were used
to randomize mice into two equally impaired groups. Mice received either 0.22 mg/kg LM22A-4
or saline vehicle, given intranasally, beginning 3 days after stroke, and were treated daily until
ten weeks after stroke. Fifty mg/kg BrdU was also administered on days 3-8.

Results: After stroke, LM22A-4 treatment improved limb swing speed on Catwalk, and gait
accuracy on ladder testing (P = 0.0032 and 0.0289, respectively, repeated measures ANOVA).
There was no recovery in rotarod testing in either group. Stereological analysis of BrdU+/NeuN+
cells revealed that LM22A-4 treatment increased neurogenesis in areas adjacent to the stroke
core. We found a 1.8-fold increase in BrdU+ mature neurons in penumbral cortex and a 2.7-fold
increase in dorsolateral striatum (P = 0.004 and < 0.0001, respectively, Student's t test), but no
significant increase in the unaffected ventral striatum. Immunostaining for the immature
neuronal marker doublecortin also demonstrated a two-fold increase in LM22A-4-treated
animals. Golgi staining revealed no drug-induced differences in dendritic complexity in
contralateral motor cortex and dorsal lateral striatum.

Conclusions: Increased TrkB pathway activation improves recovery from stroke and increases
neurogenesis. LM22A-4 or its derivatives might therefore serve as “pro-recovery” therapeutic
agents for people with stroke.

http://www.jci.org/a.../41356/figure/8

This PDF includes in-vitro receptor binding assays:
http://www.google.co...nAuZUUw&cad=rja

I didn't know Noopept downgrades TrkB like this. But man LM22A-4 is not cheap. I hope there is a cheaper alternative. I am thinking of wanting to add Noopept to the CILTPE stack

[golden1]

I didn't know Noopept downgrades TrkB like this. But man LM22A-4 is not cheap. I hope there is a cheaper alternative. I am thinking of wanting to add Noopept to the CILTPE stack

By the way, as far as I know, there is only one russian study that came to the conclusion it raised NGF and BDNF in the rat hippocampus(and could then technically downregulate their trkb receptor, but.. it would be because of increased binding to the receptor so...really this is so far out on a limb based on one study).
If anyone has a study besides this one(or ones referencing this one): http://www.springerl...v373824167wh34/
that comes to a similar conclusion please share.

[gizmobrain]

I didn't know Noopept downgrades TrkB like this. But man LM22A-4 is not cheap. I hope there is a cheaper alternative. I am thinking of wanting to add Noopept to the CILTPE stack

By the way, as far as I know, there is only one russian study that came to the conclusion it raised NGF and BDNF in the rat hippocampus(and could then technically downregulate their trkb receptor, but.. it would be because of increased binding to the receptor so...really this is so far out on a limb based on one study).
If anyone has a study besides this one(or ones referencing this one): http://www.springerl...v373824167wh34/
that comes to a similar conclusion please share.

I don't believe MrHappy was directly recommending using LM22A-4, only that he was investigating it as a potential pathway for increasing the benefits of not only Noopept but any BDNF increasing substances.

TrkB down-regulation via overexposure to BDNF is a common theoretical problem with any substance that increases BDNF, which is why cycling is recommended. It doesn't mean that there will be any harm, only that your brain will limit the potential benefits of increased BDNF over time.

Edited by zrbarnes, 29 June 2012 - 01:51 AM.

[golden1]

ok, yes, so basically it's nothing to worry about, just someone's theory they are trying out.

Also, I'm sure this has been discussed(and that I've read it, but I dont want to reread all the noopept topics), but any good human metabolite data? I found this: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/15079908
which makes it sound like noopept has a much different metabolism in humans compared to rats or other animals(and that it is variable between people). Specifically the abstract seemed to point to the metabolites being less produced in humans and noopept having a longer halflife.

The noopept pharmacokinetics in humans differs from that in animals by still slower elimination and considerable individual variability. No drug metabolites are found in the human blood plasma, probably because of a relatively small dose and low concentration.

But it also says that it is because of the low dose they couldnt detect metabolites in humans.. so any other relevant studies on human metabolic process on noopept?

Also the main metabolite from above, cyclo-pro-gly is pretty similar to:
http://en.wikipedia....i/2-Pyrrolidone the base for all the -racetams(and an aniracetam metabolite) which is an ampa modulator as well as aniracetam is.

However, I notice both aniracetam and noopept have two stages, a very alert and focused state with obvious pros, which then slowly fades to a much lesser feeling.(and for aniracetam it gets more anti-anxiety and less of everything else, I suppose because of n-anisol-gaba being a metabolite of aniracetam aswell as 2-pyrrolidone). Personally I like the first stage of both so so much more than after they fade, and I feel like redosing always has a decent tendency to leave you brainfogged.. which I'm thinking is because of the metabolites still hanging around. (if only there was an aniracetam that had a halflife similar to piracetam... would be soo epic)

Really just rambling and trying to understand about how noopept is working...

[Junk Master]

I think you have the stages mixed up for aniracetam. I find it very anxiolytic for the first1- 2 hours, then more focused for the next 3-4 hours.

[golden1]

Nope, first stage is too intense, deep, and thought activating for me to be anxiolytic. Maybe if I used a lower dose(I use 800-2000mg). Same time scale as you though.

[X_Danny_X]

When I used noopept, I used it during the morning and that is it. I was worried about brain fog since it was brought up before. I also decided to cycle it and not use it during the weekends. I have no clue if that did any good for me in terms of cycling it to avoid tolerance and brain fog. Noopept did work but not much for me. I have to say though that I didn't know exactly how to use it. Maybe a second attempt is in order.

[SummerUser]

I have a question to you all:
Is there a big difference between powder and the original pills? As I mentioned before I'll be able to get my hands on the pills only in winter or maybe even later.
So is it reasonable to buy some powder from eBay (I see two trustworthy sellers there: Nexus and CerebralHealth)? I've already invested in digital scale. From my experience there could be quite a difference (Nootropil vs Piracetam powder). So what is you experience? Thanks in advance.

[MrHappy]

I have a question to you all:
Is there a big difference between powder and the original pills? As I mentioned before I'll be able to get my hands on the pills only in winter or maybe even later.
So is it reasonable to buy some powder from eBay (I see two trustworthy sellers there: Nexus and CerebralHealth)? I've already invested in digital scale. From my experience there could be quite a difference (Nootropil vs Piracetam powder). So what is you experience? Thanks in advance.

Powder works fine. Superiornutraceuticals.com have a good Noopept product, I've found so far.

[SummerUser]

Thank you for the answer. I think I'll go with nootrabiolabs, they were a good source of piracetam for me.
Hope this stuff is better than Piracetam, althogh -racetams are usefull to (great stuff to detox from alcohol etc.).

[SummerUser]

I've just tried noopept powder from Nexus/Byobss (I believe they use the same supplier). It did nothing for me. I've used 30mg to start with, but all the effects you guys talk about were simply absent.
So thinking to hell with it, I've just mixed the rest of it (around 1g) with water and swallowed it. Nothing again, it just made me sleepy and I went to bed. I've slept for 12 hours, which is uncommon for me.
In the morning - nothing. I know that Noopept is U curve drug and one needs to take max of (0.8-1.2) x body weight, but still. No effects are kind of a downer for me. I'll try to by 10g from some other supplier next time and will probably do a 3 month regimen (10-15mg x 3 times).

[OpaqueMind]

Sounds like you got bunk materials.

Still, why the hell did you elevate straight to a gram?! That was pretty reckless.

Last point, I wouldn't go and buy 10 grams worth from the next vendor!

1) You may be a non-responder.

2) They may sell bunk.

3) You may not even like it's effects.

Edited by OpaqueMind, 12 July 2012 - 02:36 PM.

[MangekyōPeter]

wow, you drank a gram of noopept? :O and felt literally nothing? I think this is a safe bet that ure a non responder to either racetams-like substances or just noopept (if u've had noticeable effects from normal racetams) :P

[SummerUser]

Maybe I was reckless, but I went from my experience with 30mg (1g is just a 33 times stronger, no big deal haha).
Powder is quite sticky, with bitter taste. I have no idea if it could have been heat damaged or something.
I'm a responder to piracetam, so I think it was just a wrong supplier.
P.S. I quit coffee today (my noopept experiment was yesterday) without any side effects (from 6 espresso cups per day).
Could it be accounted to noopept??? I had in plans to do so for a long time, but today just seemed like a good day to do it.
I was thinking about buying 10g because the price difference between 2/5g and 10g isn't big.

Edited by SummerUser, 12 July 2012 - 03:08 PM.

[manic_racetam]

Maybe I was reckless, but I went from my experience with 30mg (1g is just a 33 times stronger, no big deal haha).
Powder is quite sticky, with bitter taste. I have no idea if it could have been heat damaged or something.
I'm a responder to piracetam, so I think it was just a wrong supplier.
P.S. I quit coffee today (my noopept experiment was yesterday) without any side effects (from 6 espresso cups per day).
Could it be accounted to noopept??? I had in plans to do so for a long time, but today just seemed like a good day to do it.
I was thinking about buying 10g because the price difference between 2/5g and 10g isn't big.

Well, thanks for doing a slightly extreme human toxicology study I've definitely never taken a gram of that stuff in one go before.

Some people who respond well to piracetam don't get much of a subjective response to Noopept. But I think the lack of caffeine withdrawals shows it's having some sort of (maybe) beneficial effect. I noticed total relief from caffeine withdrawals while taking it also. Maybe you're just experiencing the beneficial effects on brain function but lacking the subjective experience.

Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but unless there are drastically different ways that different people metabolize this stuff it should have the same protective and other effects on the brain even in the absence of subjective effects, right?