45 replies to this topic

[k10]

Well you should be taking it for as long as you are on antibiotics. Most doctors have their patients on some type of cyst-buster such as metronidizaole or tinidizole, but usually those are pulsed. It is fine to take the GSE daily for as long as you treat lyme. It's very cheap too, but if you are having money issues at the moment you'll have to consider how important adding this specific supplement is for you with the information you have at hand.

I'm combining it with doxycycline (will be switching to minocycline), and some very good chinese herbs specifically for difficult to eliminate infections such as lyme, referred to in traditional chinese medicine as "gu syndrome" (or "brain gu syndrome"), excellent article on it here:
http://www.classical...ads/gufinal.pdf

[notlupus]

Well you should be taking it for as long as you are on antibiotics. Most doctors have their patients on some type of cyst-buster such as metronidizaole or tinidizole, but usually those are pulsed. It is fine to take the GSE daily for as long as you treat lyme. It's very cheap too, but if you are having money issues at the moment you'll have to consider how important adding this specific supplement is for you with the information you have at hand.

I'm combining it with doxycycline (will be switching to minocycline), and some very good chinese herbs specifically for difficult to eliminate infections such as lyme, referred to in traditional chinese medicine as "gu syndrome" (or "brain gu syndrome"), excellent article on it here:
http://www.classical...ads/gufinal.pdf

If it'll help, then the cost isn't that big of a concern. I'd just never seen anything published about it, and most of the positive info seemed to come from people selling it. If the Brorsons published it I'd be willing to try it. It looks like really high doses are needed, but 15 to 20 drops a day of the triple strength stuff should do it. The vitamin shoppe brand is also Citricidal brand GSE so I might go with that. 4 pills a day should be about the same dose and I don't have to buy $30 worth at a time before I know if it'll work (plus I don't have to wait for it).

http://www.vitaminsh....jsp?id=VS-2228

I'd been wondering what I'd do about a cyst buster since I obviously can't take metronidazole, so it looks like this will be it.

[notlupus]

I looked at the contents and it looks like each GSE pill is about the same as 4 drops of the triple strength stuff. I've been taking 4 to 5 a day for a week. It might have caused a very mild herx at first or been something else. I might try the liquid next to see if it makes a difference. According to the study high doses are definitely needed and I want to make sure I'm absorbing as much as possible. It might be that I'm still herxing, since I'm having some strange skin sensations. Mostly my skin will feel slightly cool and tingly (especially on my arms) despite be being about 80 inside and even hotter outside (my skin doesn't feel cold).

Today is day #50 of penicillin and I'm still undecided about trying the diflucan again. I've seen a significant improvement with the pen shots, but it would be very nice to take a break from them (the shots are making me sore).

[nameless]

Around at what point in treatment should a cyst buster be introduced? My doc just sort of vaguely says he plans to add other things down the road, but never gave me a timetable. Currently on Doxy, did 2 months low dose, and starting first month on a decent dose of 400mg/daily.

[FunkOdyssey]

Two different Lyme doctors I've seen both felt that after about 3-4 months of effective doses of other antibiotics is the correct time frame to introduce a cyst buster assuming the other antibiotics are pretty well tolerated at that point and herx'ing is not out of control.

Typically a cell wall inhibitor (amoxicillin, ceftin, bicillin shots, IV rocephin) is combined with an intracellular protein synthesis inhibitor (tetracycline, doxycycline, minocycline, clarithromycin, azithromycin) as the basis of the protocol, and after a few months you bring in metronidazole or tinidazole. Plaquenil is sometimes used instead in combination with a macrolide, most commonly biaxin. I believe plaquenil is somewhat less effective as a cyst buster than flagyl or tindamax though. Tinidazole may be the most effective according to an in-vitro susceptibility study and is definitely better tolerated than flagyl.

Some doctors use the cyst buster continuously or others will pulse for 2 weeks out of every 6 or something similar. Plaquenil is not used in this pulse fashion because its half-life is something totally outrageous like 50 days.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 30 June 2009 - 06:39 PM.

[nameless]

Thanks for the info.

And at what point is the second antibiotic typically introduced? Same time frame, or should he add it soonish to my Doxy?

To make things complicated, I'm allergic to penicillin, so am not sure if amoxicillin would be okay or not (or any penicillin derivatives). Guess I'll find out if he prescribes it.

[FunkOdyssey]

If you are allergic to amoxicillin and the cephalosporins too (ceftin), then you could combine a tetracycline and a macrolide instead as this is a popular alternative.

Second drug is usually introduced anytime from 1 week to a month after the first drug, as long as the first drug is being tolerated well enough.

[nameless]

Not sure if I am allergic to the cephalosporins, and there is a chance I could take amoxicillin even, as I think only a certain percentage of those allergic to penicillin have a problem with it. I think my doc is partial to amoxicillin, as he did mention it before putting me on Doxy. Pretty sure he was afraid I'd burn up over the summer, but I'm not really the outdoors-activity type right now, due to Lyme symptoms.

But my doc seems to be taking his time. I'll have been on Doxy three months total next time I see him, with nothing else added yet.

Edited by nameless, 30 June 2009 - 07:04 PM.

[notlupus]

Funk, I'm beginning to think diflucan should be added to the list of protein synthesis inhibitors. The differences I've seen with it and penicillin vs amoxi alone can't just be attributed to the switch from amoxi to penicillin. I can't work up the courage to take pen and diflucan at the same time though, especially since Schardt seems to have good luck switching between the two. With the addition of GSE I'm very hopeful there might be an end in sight for me.

[FunkOdyssey]

But it isn't a protein synthesis inhibitor, it supposedly inhibits borellia's p450 enzyme. It might be of value to add to other antibiotics especially since it will help control yeast overgrowth resulting from said antibiotics. I took it for 30 days without seeing anything amazing happen but I might give it another chance with a bit more patience.

[notlupus]

But it isn't a protein synthesis inhibitor, it supposedly inhibits borellia's p450 enzyme. It might be of value to add to other antibiotics especially since it will help control yeast overgrowth resulting from said antibiotics. I took it for 30 days without seeing anything amazing happen but I might give it another chance with a bit more patience.

What dose did you take? I think I remember you mentioning taking a much smaller dose than the one Schardt uses (200mg a day)
Maybe I should add azithromycin to the penicillin. How long is it normally taken? I've been on it before (but not for very long) and noticed an improvement.

[FunkOdyssey]

You shouldn't combine a macrolide with fluconazole because they both can cause Qt prolongation. When I was taking fluconazole to kill Lyme I was using the 200mg dose, I was using 100mg every other day for yeast control.

[notlupus]

You shouldn't combine a macrolide with fluconazole because they both can cause Qt prolongation. When I was taking fluconazole to kill Lyme I was using the 200mg dose, I was using 100mg every other day for yeast control.

No plans to combine the azithromycin and diflucan, but might alternate them if needed. I looked and it seems the normal dose of azithromycin is about 500mg/day but I couldn't find any info about general length of use for lyme. Depending on the usual length of treatment it might be worth going to my dr. to try to get a rx.

[Lufega]

What's the highest dose of penicillin suggested? The pharmacy here has 1.2, 2.4 and 6.3. Can I go that high every other day??

[notlupus]

The second round of diflucan was much easier on me. It definitely is doing something good. I've had a setback this week because my food was contaminated with gluten at a restaurant, but the reaction didn't make me completely useless like it has in the past. I'm tired of slow improvement, but at least I'm improving. I'm afraid the stress of grad school will make me decline again in the spring, but the director of grad studies wants to kick me out so I'm afraid to take more than a semester off.
'

[bb123456]

I determined that a 1.2mu shot of bicillin contains only 750mg of penicillin. Now I realize amoxicillin has a half-life of only an hour, but if you take a million grams of it spaced throughout the day, combined with probenecid to inhibit its excretion, I don't see why it would not be at least as effective as such a tiny dose of intramuscular penicillin every-other-day. Vast majority of an amoxicillin dose is eliminated via the kidneys so negative effects on the gut flora are minimal for such a large dose of antibiotics.
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Typically a cell wall inhibitor (amoxicillin, ceftin, bicillin shots, IV rocephin) is combined with an intracellular protein synthesis inhibitor (tetracycline, doxycycline, minocycline, clarithromycin, azithromycin) as the basis of the protocol, and after a few months you bring in metronidazole or tinidazole. Plaquenil is sometimes used instead in combination with a macrolide, most commonly biaxin. I believe plaquenil is somewhat less effective as a cyst buster than flagyl or tindamax though. Tinidazole may be the most effective according to an in-vitro susceptibility study and is definitely better tolerated than flagyl.

Dear mod, I know my account maybe will be banned, but your point is so stupid..