145 replies to this topic

[spacetime]

What's the mortaility rate? It seemed much higher with the avian flu/h5n1. And again those with heathy immune systems were more vulnerable as they'd have a greater response and I think drown in their own mucous.

[Heliotrope]

Who thinks this may be in any way associated with global Terrorism?


Remember how some ppl jump on the wagon all saying after Terrorists bombed NYC and D.C., they sent out mass mails and letters to US with Anthrax inside? The Anthrax letters killed no more than a dozen, but who thinks they started lethal viruses like SARS, Swine, etc etc??



Do Terrorists have the ability to make them? distribute n spread the pathogen? ?

[sUper GeNius]

Who thinks this may be in any way associated with global Terrorism?


Remember how some ppl jump on the wagon all saying after Terrorists bombed NYC and D.C., they sent out mass mails and letters to US with Anthrax inside? The Anthrax letters killed no more than a dozen, but who thinks they started lethal viruses like SARS, Swine, etc etc??



Do Terrorists have the ability to make them? distribute n spread the pathogen? ?

Not their style. They prefer big kabooms.

[Dmitri]

Who thinks this may be in any way associated with global Terrorism?


Remember how some ppl jump on the wagon all saying after Terrorists bombed NYC and D.C., they sent out mass mails and letters to US with Anthrax inside? The Anthrax letters killed no more than a dozen, but who thinks they started lethal viruses like SARS, Swine, etc etc??



Do Terrorists have the ability to make them? distribute n spread the pathogen? ?

No, they mentioned in the Spanish news that we don't have the technology to manipulate the flu virus yet, so it's less likely terrorists would. Also, I saw on BBC news (from PBS) that in Mexico doctors are advised not to speak with reporters about the cases, which might be why we see different numbers on different news outlets (BBC claims there's 1,600 infected in Mexico while the Spanish media claims there's 2,000+).

[Heliotrope]

Who thinks this may be in any way associated with global Terrorism?


Remember how some ppl jump on the wagon all saying after Terrorists bombed NYC and D.C., they sent out mass mails and letters to US with Anthrax inside? The Anthrax letters killed no more than a dozen, but who thinks they started lethal viruses like SARS, Swine, etc etc??



Do Terrorists have the ability to make them? distribute n spread the pathogen? ?

we don't have the technology to manipulate the flu virus yet, so it's less likely terrorists would.

ok. I read similar views. They say it's unlikely that a bunch of terrorists have that kind of technology in the caves of central Asia, even if they were financed by a billionaire named bin laden

[AgeVivo]

Based on wikipedia readings: in 1918 it was also a "A/H1N1" virus and the morbidity was around 5%, mostly in young adults, not because of the flu itself but complications (eg airway infections due to depressed immune system; probably a consequence of the cytokine storm). People wore masks but it was not sufficient. What happened in Mexico it all seems similar (perhaps not the masks)... because they were not aware of the danger.

The difference with what will happen NOW is that we are aware of that flu, that there are antiviral treatments to lower the degree of the flu (and some will take vitamin D and tea and so on), and if it isn't sufficient antibiotics can avoid the complications.

... isn't ageing the #1 pandemia ?

Edited by AgeVivo, 29 April 2009 - 10:59 AM.

[Dmitri]

23 month old infant becomes first victim of Swine Flu in the U.S.

http://www.msnbc.msn...1035/?GT1=43001

[Matt]

I THINK the child was actually from Mexico but went to visit family in the U.S

[stayin_alive]

ok. I read similar views. They say it's unlikely that a bunch of terrorists have that kind of technology in the caves of central Asia, even if they were financed by a billionaire named bin laden

Dunno, the CIA has lots of money, lots of labs and they have a kinky relations with bin laden...

[wayside]

Yeah i would guess that he recommends resveratrol btw resveratrol is only mentioned once in this article and not in the form of a recommendation. Where did you see his recommendation?? Seems to help though

While he doesn't explicitly say "I recommend you do this", I took this to be a recommendation:

The only approaches to prevention or treatment are unproven vaccines or problematic drugs. Nothing is said about increasing immunity. Natural remedies which prime the innate immune system, such as vitamin D and vitamin C [...], and natural molecules such as resveratrol and quercetin that inhibit entry of viruses into living cells, go unmentioned.

[Heliotrope]

ok. I read similar views. They say it's unlikely that a bunch of terrorists have that kind of technology in the caves of central Asia, even if they were financed by a billionaire named bin laden

Dunno, the CIA has lots of money, lots of labs and they have a kinky relations with bin laden...

If they team up, I wouldnt be surprised if they came up with some crazy virus from small scale of "anthrax letter" to even biological/chemical WMDs and accurate delivery systems

[VespeneGas]

If they team up, I wouldnt be surprised if they came up with some crazy virus from small scale of "anthrax letter" to even biological/chemical WMDs and accurate delivery systems

Complements of xkcd.com

[Heliotrope]

If they team up, I wouldnt be surprised if they came up with some crazy virus from small scale of "anthrax letter" to even biological/chemical WMDs and accurate delivery systems

Complements of xkcd.com

some conspiracy has value. cant underestimate terrorists giving us virus bombs

[stayin_alive]

If they team up, I wouldnt be surprised if they came up with some crazy virus from small scale of "anthrax letter" to even biological/chemical WMDs and accurate delivery systems

Complements of xkcd.com

that's pretty funny.

In the US of A, we have some history of conspiracy as do most nations - is it a conspiracy that monies from illegal drugs float our economies, or is that a lesser known fact that most don't want to look at?

you don't have to think 9111 was a conspiracy to know there are conspiracies. In fact, it's an idiot who doesn't understand that conspiracies are precisely how the real world works often enough.

consider the street car conspiracy which has impacted the US and the world at large to this day. It's at least plausible that the US would not be in IRAQ today if this conspiracy did not happen or was not successful.

But that's ok, sleep tight in your nice comforting world where only evil men do evil. No one would consider a priest to be an active pedophile and no one would dare consider the church to hide it allowing it to persist - none dare!

lol

[spacetime]

Isn't it now accepted that the source of the anthrax attacks was a domestic source and not islamic terrorists? Sure, perhaps the caves of afghanistan aren't ideal for creating biological weapons but they aren't limited to that locale so who knows what they possess. Also, this h1n1 strain existed long before so it's nto as if they had to engineer a deadly strain. This is still far from a pandemic though and yes real pandemics like AIDS or other affilications deserve more attention. Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately, they aren't so easily transmittable and thus they cannot play on the fears of the populace who are hard pressed to avoid or limit exposure. So, now we have the media inducing more fear and jingoistic sentiments, hooray!

[VespeneGas]

that's pretty funny.

In the US of A, we have some history of conspiracy as do most nations - is it a conspiracy that monies from illegal drugs float our economies, or is that a lesser known fact that most don't want to look at?

you don't have to think 9111 was a conspiracy to know there are conspiracies. In fact, it's an idiot who doesn't understand that conspiracies are precisely how the real world works often enough.

consider the street car conspiracy which has impacted the US and the world at large to this day. It's at least plausible that the US would not be in IRAQ today if this conspiracy did not happen or was not successful.

But that's ok, sleep tight in your nice comforting world where only evil men do evil. No one would consider a priest to be an active pedophile and no one would dare consider the church to hide it allowing it to persist - none dare!

lol

Look how quickly you've summarized and dismissed my worldview, and I haven't even said anything. Small minded much?

You'll note that the comic I posted acknowledges the fact that conspiracy theories are sometimes true, as in the case you cited. Also please note that I never said that the CIA isn't pouring millions of research dollars into developing a deadly disease which it plans to release via terrorist proxy into the world population.

However, these are evidence-based boards. Yes, I know the CIA has trafficked drugs and that the US government created crack cocaine to pacify the ghetto, etc etc. So lets not waste time on the "CIA is evil lol" discussion. With this in mind, please provide documentation that the CIA is participating in any of the aforementioned activities, or admit that all you've posted is wild speculation coupled with the smug sense of satisfaction characteristic of the enlightened walking amongst the ignorant.

[VespeneGas]

So, now we have the media inducing more fear and jingoistic sentiments, hooray!

Jingoism? Is fox news pushing for war against mexico, or something?

[stayin_alive]

Look how quickly you've summarized and dismissed my worldview, and I haven't even said anything. Small minded much?

That was bad of me.


Anyhow we up to level 5 now. One more level and GAME OVER!!! )

[VictorBjoerk]

now the first cases have appeared in Finland, The swedish authorities seem very concerned...

[niner]

However, these are evidence-based boards. ... the US government created crack cocaine to pacify the ghetto...

Ok, what's the evidence for this one?

[tunt01]

Re: Elderberry, Sambucol as a potential swine flu treatment

http://www.blackelde...ndex.cfm?id=374

Both studies above found that extracts from black elderberries helped increase the production of interleukins 6 and 8 (IL-6, IL-8) and tumor necrosis factor alpha (TNF-α). All of which have been shown to have pro-inflammatory properties in fighting infection (2,3).

I thought we want to inhibit TNF-a ? Doesn't seem like Elderberry is appropriate for Swine Flu then, it compounds the problem ??

[Mind]

First of all, please don't confuse my criticism of the media-hyped-mass-hysteria going on with conspiracy theories about pathogens. I am only criticizing the confusing and counter-productive method national and world health agencies go about reporting on infectious disease.

I also want to thank resvhead for a detailed and interesting take on the situation. Yes, I agree that the media is an integral part of how society functions, but the media can malfunction. Perhaps I am more jaded because I work in the industry. From the time I get up in the morning to the time I go to bed all I hear is "Deadly Swine Flu", "Swine Flu Pandemic", "World in Chaos", "How can we stay safe", "Ban Travel", "Worst Flu in Years", "Our worst fears confirmed", "Is the swine flu going to be like AIDS". It is on the internet, radio, TV, everywhere. Not only this year, but as I mentioned earlier, we have gone through this "end of the world hype-cycle" several times in the last decade, and it has never been as bad as hyped, not even close. You would think the CDC and WHO would have learned from past episodes where things were completely blown out of proportion (like this episode as well). You would think they would clarify and refine their warnings. Remember a level 6 warning from WHO only means that the pathogen is affecting a community in at least two regions (presumably countries, but there is ambiguity). It isn't the end of the world.

Sensible article here: Why travel bans cannot stop the spread of a pathogen

Which reminds why most people think over-hyped over-reaction is just fine....better safe than sorry....right? As long as your community is not the one that is completely shut down because of a quarantine. Jobs lost, money lost, time lost, perhaps even forced to take experimental vaccines or drugs, for weeks or months. I think we would look differently on this if it was happening to us. The bird flu mass hysteria cost southeast Asia and estimated 40 billion. They were convinced to kill most of their chickens and even their pet birds. Not fun being the focus of mass hysteria.

Still no deaths outside of Mexico, the one in the U.S. was someone who was brought across the border for treatment. A sad story no doubt.

Another thing: This flu strain suspected in cases dating back to February If this is the case, it easily explains why it has been found in so many countries already. It has probably traveled the world 3 times over in the last 3 months, and..... and..... the world hasn't come to an end.

So, WHO, CDC, and other health organizations need to get their act together and more properly/cogently define deifferent stages of viral/pathogen spread. They need to get on the same page with the same terminology. They need to be as open as possible with the case histories so that the data can be evaluated by more people. They need to be clearly state what is known ans what is not known. If they don't have clear data, they should make it be known to the media. I can't believe how many different "experts" I have heard on TV, radio, internet, claiming to know where it started, what type of strain it is, and they are all saying something different. No wonder people are so hysterical.

I am personally still not worried. If I am wrong and a high mortality rate spreads around the world, I will gladly admit that I was wrong.

[Heliotrope]

First of all, please don't confuse my criticism of the media-hyped-mass-hysteria going on with conspiracy theories about pathogens. I am only criticizing the confusing and counter-productive method national and world health agencies go about reporting on infectious disease.




I am personally still not worried. If I am wrong and a high mortality rate spreads around the world, I will gladly admit that I was wrong.

Agreed.

I am personally not all that worried either. I took flu shot, and try to boost my immunity.


The anthrax letters were mailed by a U.S. scientist disgruntled with the government. That was still a low body count tho, even adding the scientist's suicide, amounting to ~half a dozen deaths.

I try not to be accidentally infected by the ever-increasing ill-population around me. A deliberate , intetional attack would be the scariest thing.


by God, I'd rather duke it out against Mother Nature than evil human nature. In any case, I've preparation to prevail. Death shall not take me on this case

Edited by HYP86, 29 April 2009 - 11:35 PM.

[stayin_alive]

Another thing: This flu strain suspected in cases dating back to February If this is the case, it easily explains why it has been found in so many countries already. It has probably traveled the world 3 times over in the last 3 months, and..... and..... the world hasn't come to an end.

I had a bout of something beyond normal flu and fits with the symptoms about 6 weeks ago - took me out for 4 days. I guess I gave it a fem friend who was knocked out about 1.5 weeks. It could very well have been that.

I am personally still not worried. If I am wrong and a high mortality rate spreads around the world, I will gladly admit that I was wrong.

And no one will be around to hear your apology...) you kill me man..

Edited by stayin_alive, 29 April 2009 - 11:34 PM.

[Matt]

Antiviral effect of catechins in green tea on influenza virus.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/16137775

Polyphenolic compound catechins ((-)-epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG), (-)-epicatechin gallate (ECG) and (-)-epigallocatechin (EGC)) from green tea were evaluated for their ability to inhibit influenza virus replication in cell culture and for potentially direct virucidal effect. Among the test compounds, the EGCG and ECG were found to be potent inhibitors of influenza virus replication in MDCK cell culture and this effect was observed in all influenza virus subtypes tested, including A/H1N1, A/H3N2 and B virus. The 50% effective inhibition concentration (EC50) of EGCG, ECG, and EGC for influenza A virus were 22-28, 22-40 and 309-318 microM, respectively. EGCG and ECG exhibited hemagglutination inhibition activity, EGCG being more effective. However, the sensitivity in hemagglutination inhibition was widely different among three different subtypes of influenza viruses tested. Quantitative RT-PCR analysis revealed that, at high concentration, EGCG and ECG also suppressed viral RNA synthesis in MDCK cells whereas EGC failed to show similar effect. Similarly, EGCG and ECG inhibited the neuraminidase activity more effectively than the EGC. The results show that the 3-galloyl group of catechin skeleton plays an important role on the observed antiviral activity, whereas the 5'-OH at the trihydroxy benzyl moiety at 2-position plays a minor role. The results, along with the HA type-specific effect, suggest that the antiviral effect of catechins on influenza virus is mediated not only by specific interaction with HA, but altering the physical properties of viral membrane.


Inhibition of the infectivity of influenza virus by tea polyphenols.

(-)Epigallocatechin gallate (EGCg) and theaflavin digallate (TF3) (1-10 microM) inhibited the infectivity of both influenza A virus and influenza B virus in Madin-Darby canine kidney (MDCK) cells in vitro. Study by electron microscope revealed that EGCg and TF3 (1 mM) agglutinated influenza viruses as well as did antibody, and that they prevented the viruses from adsorbing to MDCK cells. EGCg and TF3 more weakly inhibited adsorption of the viruses to MDCK cells. EGCg and TF3 (1-16 microM) also inhibited haemagglutination by influenza viruses. These findings suggest that tea polyphenols bind to the haemagglutinin of influenza virus, inhibit its adsorption to MDCK cells, and thus block its infectivity
http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/8215301

Biological evaluation of anti-influenza viral activity of semi-synthetic catechin derivatives.
Song JM, Park KD, Lee KH, Byun YH, Park JH, Kim SH, Kim JH, Seong BL.
PMID: 17709148

Catechin derivatives with different alkyl chain length and aromatic ring substitutions at the 3-hydroxyl group were synthesized from epigallocatechin (EGC) and (+)-catechin © and their anti-influenza viral activity were evaluated in vitro and in ovo. Pronounced antiviral activity was observed for derivatives carrying moderate chain length (7-9 carbons) as compared to those with aromatic rings, whereas the 5'-hydroxyl group of the trihydroxy benzyl moiety did not significantly contribute to antiviral activity. The derivatives exerted inhibitory effects for all six influenza subtypes tested including three major types of currently circulating human influenza viruses (A/H1N1, A/H3N2 and B type), H2N2 and H9N2 avian influenza virus. The compounds strongly inhibited adsorption of the viruses on red blood cell (RBC). They also restricted the growth of avian influenza virus in ovo with minimum inhibition concentration (MIC) of 5-10 microM far exceeding the neuraminidase (NA) inhibitor oseltamivir or M2 proton channel inhibitor amantadine. The antiviral activity appears to be mediated by interaction with hemagglutinin (HA)/viral membrane rendering HA less fusogenic at the initial stage of infection. The broad spectrum activity against various subtypes of influenza viruses may complement the limitations of current antivirals and contribute for managing potentially emerging influenza pandemic. The structure-activity data of catechin derivatives may usefully guideline future research endeavors for applying green tea catechins as alternative anti-viral agents.

[stephen_b]

I have a flu at the moment, and I went to see my doctor. He said that it couldn't be swine flu because I had no respiratory infection. I wonder if its possible that my high vitamin D levels are protecting me from the respiratory part.

StephenB

[VespeneGas]

However, these are evidence-based boards. ... the US government created crack cocaine to pacify the ghetto...

Ok, what's the evidence for this one?

Well, TBH I just said that to avoid a long detour on the evil behaviors of the CIA in the past. I don't stand fast by the claim in question. But I've been told that this is worth a watch: http://www.pbs.org/m...2009/watch.html

This is also an interesting read if you have the time (but who has the time these days):
http://www.fromthewi...s-targeted.html

Hope everyone is healthy!

[biknut]

I think this is getting out of hand. They're closing schools here now left and right. I don't remember the schools ever closing like this before.

Swine flu fears keep 130,000 Texas kids home

http://www.statesman...l_Closings.html

[k10]

Dr. Mercola wrote an EXCELLENT article on this:

http://articles.merc.../Swine-Flu.aspx

[biknut]

I think this is getting out of hand. They're closing schools here now left and right. I don't remember the schools ever closing like this before.

Swine flu fears keep 130,000 Texas kids home

http://www.statesman...l_Closings.html

Now they're reporting a big problem is people don't know what to do with their children because they're telling them not to take them to day care.