pycnogenol is useful for asthma & allergies @ 1mg/lb/daily(without exceeding 200mg)... does the same hold true for grapeseed? pycnogenol is just so expensive.
Edited by ajnast4r, 11 May 2009 - 06:17 PM.
Posted 11 May 2009 - 06:17 PM
Edited by ajnast4r, 11 May 2009 - 06:17 PM.
Posted 11 May 2009 - 07:35 PM
Posted 15 May 2009 - 12:11 AM
Edited by ajnast4r, 15 May 2009 - 12:16 AM.
Posted 15 May 2009 - 12:25 AM
Please post back if you find it effective, as I'm curious. I used the same product as above, but for only 2 months -- I didn't feel like going bankrupt taking it forever. So maybe it needs to be taken for several months to be effective.yea, everything i read showed that grapeseed wasnt effective at managing allergies/asthma... but pycnogenol is. pycnogenol is only 65-75% OPC, so perhaps its another complonent that is lowering leukotrienes. i ended up picking up some pycnogenol to try before resorting to singulair.
Posted 15 May 2009 - 12:31 AM
Posted 15 May 2009 - 12:33 AM
I'd worry about the extraction methods used, solvents and possible residue in a non-patented pine bark extract. And depending on manufacturer, if there was even pine bark in the capsule.I take both of them just to be safe. I also take resveratrol and astragalus. I switched over recently to pine bark extract rather than pycnogenol which is a name brand product and therefore extra expensive. Pine bark extract from the maritime pine should be the same as extract with the name on it. Why pay double or triple for the same stuff?
Posted 15 May 2009 - 02:17 AM
Posted 15 May 2009 - 04:33 AM
Please post back if you find it effective, as I'm curious. I used the same product as above, but for only 2 months -- I didn't feel like going bankrupt taking it forever. So maybe it needs to be taken for several months to be effective.yea, everything i read showed that grapeseed wasnt effective at managing allergies/asthma... but pycnogenol is. pycnogenol is only 65-75% OPC, so perhaps its another complonent that is lowering leukotrienes. i ended up picking up some pycnogenol to try before resorting to singulair.
What I did find somewhat effective maybe was a combination of Ester C + grapeseed, which I took at different times of the day. I say maybe, as I didn't really notice a major improvement at the time, but my allergies did seem slightly improved.
And for the last several weeks I haven't taken any Ester C, and noticed my allergies have been a little bit worse. It could be a complete coincidence, or due to the bioflavanoids in Ester C (which is the main reason I tried it, as its one of the few supplement sources without grapefruit).
I think it's worth trying again, and seeing if my nose/breathing improves at all.
Singulair should help too, although I couldn't take it very long due to being allergic to it (bad sign when you are allergic to your allergy medicine).
Posted 15 May 2009 - 05:34 AM
Posted 21 May 2009 - 06:37 PM
Posted 21 May 2009 - 06:44 PM
Posted 21 May 2009 - 07:00 PM
What dosage are you using? 200mg/daily?
And did you previously try grapeseed? I'm interested if you used both, as then you can clearly say pynogenol provided benefits grapeseed didn't.
Pynogneol didn't help me, or if it did, it wasn't enough for me to notice. I have some other health issues going on, so perhaps that may be why, or maybe I just need higher amounts of leukotriene reduction to notice anything.
Posted 21 May 2009 - 07:13 PM
Edited by nameless, 21 May 2009 - 07:13 PM.
Posted 21 May 2009 - 07:59 PM
Posted 21 May 2009 - 08:13 PM
I was under the impression grapeseed was better, as it contains more gallic esters and generally a higher proanthocyanidins percentage. I guess if there is a difference, we'd need to figure out what the 10% difference consists of (pynogenol 85% vs grapeseed 95% OPCs).I really really want to get to the bottom of the grapeseed vs. pycnogenol thing, whether they are basically equivalent or if pycnogenol is somehow better.
Edited by nameless, 21 May 2009 - 08:16 PM.
Posted 21 May 2009 - 08:55 PM
Posted 21 May 2009 - 11:24 PM
Posted 21 May 2009 - 11:47 PM
I really really want to get to the bottom of the grapeseed vs. pycnogenol thing, whether they are basically equivalent or if pycnogenol is somehow better.
Posted 22 May 2009 - 05:47 PM
Posted 22 May 2009 - 05:53 PM
Posted 22 May 2009 - 06:00 PM
Why does everyone assume that pcynogenol is better than generic pine bark extract? Is it a matter of faith? Does paying more guarantee that you get your moneys worth?
Edited by ajnast4r, 22 May 2009 - 06:06 PM.
Posted 23 May 2009 - 12:10 PM
Edited by lacura, 23 May 2009 - 12:16 PM.
Posted 24 May 2009 - 12:46 AM
Edited by nameless, 24 May 2009 - 12:49 AM.
Posted 24 May 2009 - 05:26 AM
...
Posted 24 May 2009 - 08:41 PM
blahblahblah....
Grapeseed extract, in addition to be being used as a hand-cleaning material,5 has also been reported to have antioxidant activity.6 The center of attention of this antioxidant activity is on the red grapeseed extract that contains proanthocyanidins. These and other antioxidants are being used as nutritional supplements by many health-conscious individuals. The lay literature and the Internet continue to perpetuate the perception that natural products such as herbs and other “dietary supplements” tend to be safer than conventional medicines. Even the placement of these items in pharmacy and on supermarket shelves prompts the idea that these items are safe. This has been fueled by the103rd Congress passage of the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994 (Pub. Law 103-417. 108 Stat. 4325. 1994) that deregulated the industry by limiting the role of the Food and Drug Administration.
In vivo studies in animal models and clinical reports have indeed shown that grapeseed extract generated beneficial effects in the chemoprevention of cellular damage, ameliorated chemotherapy-induced toxic effects of anthracyclines,7 decreased tissue damage in acute and chronic pancreatitis,8 provided some protection against acetaminophen-induced hepatotoxicity,9 and had some cardioprotective effect with red wine consumption.10 Further investigations into the biochemical and physiologic changes that occur after a diet of grapeseed extract include the inhibition of proapoptotic transcription factor and gene, JNK-1 and c-Jun,10 interference with endonuclease activity,11 antioxidant effect,12 and inhibition of the microsomal drug metabolizing enzymes (CYP-4502E1).13
Grapeseed oil is also know for its high content of n-6 fatty acids. In a diet formulation studied in animal models, grapeseed extract was associated with increased ability to acclimate to cold environments.14
Grapeseed extract and grapeseed oil were implicated in the toxic-oil syndrome that occurred in epidemic form in Spain in 1981.15 In a followup animal study, grapeseed oil only appeared to be a carrier of the toxic agent, but did not in itself cause the syndrome.16 It has also been used as a control in aromatherapy trials for alopecia areata.17
The pilot study by Bernstein et al 18 as reported in this issue of the Annals is a placebo-controlled study that gave a practical duration of time for the initial effects of a major antioxidant to take a prophylactic effect, ie, allowing 2 to 4 weeks before the initiation of the pollen season for the antioxidant properties to become active over an additional 8 weeks of treatment at a specific dose of 100 mg twice daily. However, it is not clear from any of the literature what dose should have been used. The authors strengthen their “negative” study by using softer subjective measures as their primary endpoint, ie, a quality of life instrument, symptoms, and antihistamine use. If a positive result was to be found, it would have been seen with these less sensitive subjective measures. However, examination of more objective tests are justified to determine whether grapeseed extract antioxidant effect has any effect on the inflammatory response in seasonal allergic rhinitis. Thus, additional scientific studies are clearly required to support any indications for the use of grapeseed extract in allergic disorders.
It is important that publication of scientific studies with negative as well as positive outcomes be added to the ever growing medical literature exploring the complementary and alternative medicine interventions.19 The benefit to our patients is clear, by replacing myth and prejudice with scientific facts about complementary and alternative medicine in the treatment of patients with allergies.
Edited by hullcrush, 24 May 2009 - 08:43 PM.
Posted 10 June 2009 - 12:19 AM
pycnogenol is useful for asthma & allergies @ 1mg/lb/daily(without exceeding 200mg)... does the same hold true for grapeseed? pycnogenol is just so expensive.
Posted 10 June 2009 - 08:51 PM
Thanks for the article. Do you happen to have any asthma too, or just allergies? Although an allergy improvement alone is impressive.I have been using Pycnogenol the last 2 weeks on a dosage range between 160mg - 300mg against my seasonal allergy (end of May - middle of July).
I have pretty strong reactions with rye, etc. with the usual symptoms like a runny nose, itching eyes, skin reactions.
With Pycnogenol I have no signs of allergic symptoms or reactions at all! This is pretty much unbelievable for me - but it works.
So I've you have asthma or an allergy - you should try Pycnogenol!
Posted 10 June 2009 - 11:13 PM
Thanks for the article. Do you happen to have any asthma too, or just allergies? Although an allergy improvement alone is impressive.I have been using Pycnogenol the last 2 weeks on a dosage range between 160mg - 300mg against my seasonal allergy (end of May - middle of July).
I have pretty strong reactions with rye, etc. with the usual symptoms like a runny nose, itching eyes, skin reactions.
With Pycnogenol I have no signs of allergic symptoms or reactions at all! This is pretty much unbelievable for me - but it works.
So I've you have asthma or an allergy - you should try Pycnogenol!
Alex
I'm going to do my own trial soon. The Enzogenol people supposedly are going to give me a sample to try first -- it's free, so I figure why not try it. If no effect there, going to start on Pycnogenol again. I am hoping my past lack of benefit was from too low a dose (generally took 100mg/day).
Have you noticed any differences between your dosing range as to allergy benefits? Higher = better, or no difference? I wonder if an IGE blood test could be used to gauge potential benefits/effects, or would pycnogenol simply reduct mast cell activity, yet keep IGE numbers the same? Hmm... anyway, if it did in fact lower IGE via blood testing, it may be an easy way to tell it was reducing allergies.
Posted 11 June 2009 - 05:23 PM
maybe around 240mg
and give it week -
Edited by ajnast4r, 11 June 2009 - 05:27 PM.
Posted 11 June 2009 - 06:02 PM
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