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Stem Cells - For OsteoArthritis/Joints


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#1 youandme

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 09:42 AM


What does everyone think about this treatment, human trials are to begin soon claim the company...currently Dog's are the winners.(at least it's not mice for a change)

'Adicell' is the treatment name.

Basically some Fat Cells are liposucked out from the dog...then a 'secret' process is actioned on those cells
...at least they must seperate the adult stem cells..but what else do they do ?

Then the mix is syringed back into the affected joint area.

The company claim Humans in the next few months are next.

The cost for a dog is approx $5,500 (australian)...this is nothing really...

But is it real...what dangers could there be ?

You decide...

Dog recieves treatment...
http://www.youtube.c...re=channel_page

The company..
http://www.regeneus.com.au/

#2 Logan

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 09:58 AM

This is perfectly safe. They are using stem cells from the patient's own body. There is a company called Regenerist Sciences that is using stem cells from one's bone marrow to treat injured/arthritic joints. There is also something called platelet rich plasma for similar joint issues. These treatments are the wave of the future and will replace many basic arthroscopic procedures. This is the first I have heard about the stem cells from the fat being used. Maybe it is basically the same as using stem cells from hip bone marrow. I will be having all of these types of treatments all over my musculoskeletal trainwreck of a body.

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#3 youandme

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 10:37 AM

will be having all of these types of treatments all over my musculoskeletal trainwreck of a body.


Me too !...and I hope they can use this method to regen other parts and perhaps repair organs.... there is plenty of fat on most people..the supply is almost endless...!

but is it really achievable ?! Dare we get to excited about the possibilities..when we are not sure of the future realities...like how long till we see it used on other than mice, cats, dogs, horses..and everything but us lol...

Edited by youandme, 18 June 2009 - 10:39 AM.


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#4 Shoe

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 11:36 AM

like how long till we see it used on other than mice, cats, dogs, horses..and everything but us lol...


Well, let me guess: in five years. And in five years it'll still be five years out. I really hope I'm wrong, though.

#5 seekonk

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 11:38 AM

like how long till we see it used on other than mice, cats, dogs, horses..and everything but us lol...


Well, let me guess: in five years. And in five years it'll still be five years out. I really hope I'm wrong, though.


It's always bloody five years away. It has been for decades.

#6 youandme

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 01:11 PM

Yeah five years..we have heard that so many times...

Yet these lucky animals have got it now..

http://www.vet-stem.com/

Its the same with dying..animals(pets) have the additional possibility of a peaceful death...unlike us.....geez it makes you think that our world is just not set up right anymore..

In the old days..the Doc's would try it out on themselves and then on a patient whom..usually the sickest that had little hope anyway...we seem to have lost the whole point of progress. in my humble opinion.

What was once a public health issue is turned into a safety issue which is then turned into a regulatory issue which then becomes an issue of time and money...there must be a better way.

Edited by youandme, 18 June 2009 - 01:11 PM.


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#7 Matt

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 01:35 PM

like how long till we see it used on other than mice, cats, dogs, horses..and everything but us lol...


Well, let me guess: in five years. And in five years it'll still be five years out. I really hope I'm wrong, though.


It's always bloody five years away. It has been for decades.


Exactly what I thought lol. Everything seems to be 5 years away, and never changes, even 5 years later it's 5 years away.

#8 Logan

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 10:57 PM

Guys, the hip bone marrow stem cell treatments are already available. Unfortunately, it's hard to find a place using this method and it is damn expensive. The best way to go right now is to find a physician that practices prolotherapy. Most of these docs are using autologous platelet rich plasma to treat soft tissue damage to joints. I don't think we will have to wait that long for this fat technique either. If it is anything like the other two treatments I mentioned as far as safety goes, I really don't think it will be very long before this too is available. I'm sure in just a year from now, the hip bone marrow treatment option will be more widely available and more affordable. Already, good insurance companies are covering the platelet rich plasma treatment part of this proceedure. Unfortunately, insurance will not cover the use of the centrifuge that separates the platelets from the rest of the blood. So, I think they pay for about half of the cost. I am sure in 5 years, yes I said 5 years, once these treatments are proven to be effective and become mainstream, insurance companies will be covering most of the cost and insisting that these options are used before elective surgeries.

You all probably already heard of the case in Spain where they used a patient's own stem cells to engineer a new trachea and then transplanted it with the old damaged one:


Posted Image Adult Stem Cell Breakthrough: First Tissue-engineered Trachea Successfully Transplanted</h1> ScienceDaily (Nov. 18, 2008) — The first tissue-engineered trachea (windpipe), utilising the patient's own stem cells, has been successfully transplanted into a young woman with a failing airway. The bioengineered trachea immediately provided the patient with a normally functioning airway, thereby saving her life.

These remarkable results provide crucial new evidence that adult stem cells, combined with biologically compatible materials, can offer genuine solutions to other serious illnesses.

In particular, the successful outcome shows it is possible to produce a tissue-engineered airway with mechanical properties that permit normal breathing and which is free from the risks of rejection seen with conventional transplanted organs. The patient has not developed antibodies to her graft, despite not taking any immunosuppressive drugs. Lung function tests performed two months after the operation were all at the better end of the normal range for a young woman.

The pan-European team from the universities of Barcelona, Bristol, Padua and Milan report on this pioneering work in an article in The Lancet.

The loss of a normal airway is devastating, but previous attempts to replace large airways have met serious problems. The 30-year-old mother of two, suffering from collapsed airways following a severe case of TB, was hospitalised in March 2008 with acute shortness of breath rendering her unable to carry out simple domestic duties or care for her children. The only conventional option remaining was a major operation to remove her left lung which carries a risk of complications and a high mortality rate.

Based on successful laboratory work previously performed by the team, and given the urgency of the situation, it was proposed that the lower trachea and the tube to the patient's left lung (bronchus) should be replaced with a bioengineered airway based on the scaffold of a human trachea.

A seven-centimetre tracheal segment was donated by a 51-year-old transplant donor who had who had died of cerebral haemorrhage. Spain has a policy of assumed consent for organ donation. Using a new technique developed in Padua University, the trachea was decellularised over a six-week period so that no donor cells remained.

Stem cells were obtained from the recipient's own bone marrow, grown into a large population in Professor Martin Birchall's lab at the University of Bristol, and matured into cartilage cells (chondrocytes) using an adapted method originally devised for treating osteoarthritis by Professor Anthony Hollander at the University of Bristol.

The donor trachea was then seeded with chondrocytes on the outside, using a novel bioreactor which incubates cells, developed at the Politecnico di Milano, Italy, allowing them to migrate into the tissue under conditions ideal for each individual cell type. In order to replicate the lining of the trachea, epithelial cells were seeded onto the inside of the trachea using the same bioreactor.

Four days after seeding, the graft was used to replace the patient's left main bronchus. The operation was performed in June 2008 at the Hospital Clinic, Barcelona, by Professor Paolo Macchiarini of the University of Barcelona.

Professor Macchiarini, lead author on the paper, said: "We are terribly excited by these results. Just four days after transplantation the graft was almost indistinguishable from adjacent normal bronchi. After one month, a biopsy elicited local bleeding, indicating that the blood vessels had already grown back successfully".

Martin Birchall, Professor of Surgery at the University of Bristol, added: "Surgeons can now start to see and understand the very real potential for adult stem cells and tissue engineering to radically improve their ability to treat patients with serious diseases. We believe this success has proved that we are on the verge of a new age in surgical care".

Anthony Hollander, Arthritis Research Campaign Professor of Rheumatology and Tissue Engineering at the University of Bristol, concurred: "This successful treatment manifestly demonstrates the potential of adult stem cells to save lives".

The patient, Claudia Castillo, a young woman from Colombia but now living in Spain, had no complications from the operation and was discharged from hospital on the tenth post-operative day. She has remained well since and has a normal quality of life. She is able to care for her children, walk up two flights of stairs and occasionally go out dancing in the evenings.

Edited by morganator, 18 June 2009 - 11:20 PM.


#9 youandme

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Posted 18 June 2009 - 11:48 PM

Just lets say this fat method turns out to work..and it is quite inexpensive...and in just a couple of years it becomes more available.

I can imagine drug companies not being very happy about it...surely someone is going to patent part of the process to stuff it all up...or regulate it out of existance

6K for a new knee cartilage is cheap..too cheap..something has gotta stop this...


Now I had to go and have a dig around to see if anyone was offering fat stem cell treatments already..and low and behold they are...Im not going to post any links...why...well lets just say I cant validate any part of the treatment good or bad...and it would be a whole lot better if we can get this done as part of a clinical trial and ultimately at a local clinic.

Suffice to say a search on youtube and 'fat stem cell' throws up more results than I expected...some avid patients telling us their MS is cured etc etc..

It all looks promising but is it ready yet..not quite I think is the answer...so much potential promise though its hard not to hope for it to come about.

#10 niner

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 03:34 AM

6K for a new knee cartilage is cheap..too cheap..something has gotta stop this...

Not to worry. Assuming 6K is the price for an animal operation, expect the human version to cost ten times as much. That's approximately the standard of the industry for comparative costs between pets and humans.

#11 youandme

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Posted 19 June 2009 - 04:20 AM

6K for a new knee cartilage is cheap..too cheap..something has gotta stop this...

Not to worry. Assuming 6K is the price for an animal operation, expect the human version to cost ten times as much. That's approximately the standard of the industry for comparative costs between pets and humans.


Maybe it will cost 10x as much for humans(remember the 6K for pets I quoted is in australian dollars)..however the costs would come down with time..at the moment we dont even have a cost...(Im not of course refering to the clinics abroad..Ive got not no idea how much they are charging..someone is making a packet Im sure)

just maybe though Pharma's are starting to get a little worried....so many Stem cell milestones lately..I kinda feel something is going to come of them all...just a matter of when they reach the clinical space.

Edited by youandme, 19 June 2009 - 04:58 AM.


#12 mpe

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 12:22 AM

I saw the video and was very impressed with the dogs improvement.

I went to the companies web site and entered my Mother inlaws details for the human trials.

She has had her left knee replaced ( A VERY PAINFUL RECOVERY) and has arthritis in her right knee as well.

A stem cell injection to her knee has got to be much better than what she has had done in the past and I'd love to see her rolling round on the grass like the German Sheppard.

#13 niner

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 03:05 AM

just maybe though Pharma's are starting to get a little worried....so many Stem cell milestones lately..I kinda feel something is going to come of them all...just a matter of when they reach the clinical space.

I don't think they are. How much money does big Pharma make from OA? Not all that much, really. There are so many off-patent NSAIDS already out there. Maybe the medical device people who make artificial joints should be worried.

#14 youandme

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 05:52 AM

I don't think they are. How much money does big Pharma make from OA? Not all that much, really. There are so many off-patent NSAIDS already out there. Maybe the medical device people who make artificial joints should be worried.


NSAID's dont really do it for most sufferers..and it does not put the disease into any remission...its about how much the patient is willing to pay..and thus the patients are buying the disease modifying drugs which are..well a tad expensive and quite profitable.
Remicade,Enbrel, Rituxan,
..heaps of others coming along..none of them real cheap....a lot of dollars have been pumped into these areas..a lot of money going into many trials-ongoing.

I hope if they do worry, that it is warranted...currently none of the drugs (or in the pipeline) fix you up for good..and if they do any good in regards to remission..then they are likely to give you some other nasty disease symptom perhaps just incase you get bored of being symptom free...and of course you then have to buy more drugs.
..and go back into the health system putting more strain on it.

I guess also Im looking at a far far larger potential for stem cells, MS, Diabetes, Organ Transplants..on and on..Autoimmunity has at least 100 diseases..with not one treatment that halts it or cures it for any of them.

If Stem Cells ultimately can take a big chunk of the sick population and make them less of a burden on the health system..making them more productive and live a healthier happier life...and makes the Pharma's focus on the other crumb's of disease for profit...all well and good...

Ohhh Ive just woken up...oh it hasnt happenned yet bugger..! :)

Fat Stem Cells

RA

#15 niner

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 06:09 AM

I don't think they are. How much money does big Pharma make from OA? Not all that much, really. There are so many off-patent NSAIDS already out there. Maybe the medical device people who make artificial joints should be worried.

NSAID's dont really do it for most sufferers..and it does not put the disease into any remission...its about how much the patient is willing to pay..and thus the patients are buying the disease modifying drugs which are..well a tad expensive and quite profitable.
Remicade,Enbrel, Rituxan,
..heaps of others coming along..none of them real cheap....a lot of dollars have been pumped into these areas..a lot of money going into many trials-ongoing.

You're talking about RA (rheumatoid arthritis) here, not OA (osteoarthritis). As far as I know, the stem cell treatments are aimed at OA, not RA, and NSAIDS are a first-line therapy for OA. OA is very common, RA not so much.

#16 youandme

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Posted 20 June 2009 - 06:33 AM

niner
I believe that the Fat Stem Cells are being looked at for Inflammatory Disorders 'per se'...the youtube link in my last post was a discussion on Stem Cells for RA...the beginning of this thread was the link to a company talking about Fat Stem Cells for OA...so Im just expanding the discussion on what Ive recently found ..and that is ..using Fat Derived Stem Cells and it's possible benefits for Inflammatory diseases.

I just found this paper ...more of interest to the scientific ..but talks about the potential and how these Fat Derived Stem cells treat Inflammatory diseases..and talk of initial treatment for 3 MS patients using Fat Derived Stem Cell's

http://www.translati...9-5876-7-29.pdf

Now again does it work or will it work..and for what disease...thats yet to be established.

#17 youandme

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Posted 21 June 2009 - 03:43 AM

http://news.national...ll-tourism.html

An interesting story from a trustworthy publication re 'Stem Cell Therapy Tourism', why it's happenning, who's providing..and the dangers.

One thing that strikes me is that the US/UK etc are behind in stem cell research...and these private clinics due to their unregulated experience have a lot of data that the US and other Regulated countries do not.

I hope to see a convergence of the tech/data and finally a direction from the US,UK et al...to go forward and start to push harder for these treatments to come up first for clinical trial and then into clinical practice.

Embryonic stem cells have caused things to crawl along..mention stem cells till recently and it was a no no...it's time for fast change.

Cheers

#18 Johann

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Posted 02 July 2009 - 01:37 PM

Five years away. Always five years away. AND THEN, other countries will get it but the U.S. won't because the FDA will claim that it has not been thorougly tested. TRANSLATED: The FDA really means that some pharmaceutical co has developed more pills that they want to sell and stem cells would be a detriment to the sell of those pills.

#19 Dmitri

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 02:19 AM

Five years away. Always five years away. AND THEN, other countries will get it but the U.S. won't because the FDA will claim that it has not been thorougly tested. TRANSLATED: The FDA really means that some pharmaceutical co has developed more pills that they want to sell and stem cells would be a detriment to the sell of those pills.


I wouldn't be too worried drug companies are already working on stem cell therapies (through drugs though):

The drug Mozobil has such an effect when used with certain hormones, thus far based on animal studies. It might be too soon to celebrate but I believe this in itself is a great discovery and achievement.

http://www.newscient...ll-cabinet.html

Drugs to stimulate production of a patient's own stem cells could lead to simple new treatments to accelerate repair of broken bones and ligaments, or damaged cardiac tissue following heart attacks

The scope for patients to be treated with their own stem cells has been boosted by discovery of drug regimes that liberate specific types of stem cells from the bone marrow.

The discovery could lead to simple new treatments to accelerate repair of broken bones and ligaments, or damaged cardiac tissue following heart attacks.

Instead of injecting patients with stem cells from donors, embryos or stem cell banks, doctors could simply inject the drugs and the patients would produce the cells themselves. This would avoid complications of tissue rejection and sidestep ethical objections to using stem cells originating from embryos.

"It's promoting self-healing," says Sara Rankin of Imperial College London, and a member of the team that discovered the stem-cell liberating effects. "We're simply boosting what's going on naturally."

It has been previously possible to promote the release of stem cells that develop into blood cells. Now, for the first time, stem cells have been liberated that regenerate other tissues, such as bone and blood vessels, widening options for treatment............


#20 VidX

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 02:04 PM

http://news.national...ll-tourism.html

An interesting story from a trustworthy publication re 'Stem Cell Therapy Tourism', why it's happenning, who's providing..and the dangers.

One thing that strikes me is that the US/UK etc are behind in stem cell research...and these private clinics due to their unregulated experience have a lot of data that the US and other Regulated countries do not.

I hope to see a convergence of the tech/data and finally a direction from the US,UK et al...to go forward and start to push harder for these treatments to come up first for clinical trial and then into clinical practice.

Embryonic stem cells have caused things to crawl along..mention stem cells till recently and it was a no no...it's time for fast change.

Cheers




IMHO sooner or later there'll be an initiative to concentrate serious research/treatment centers in some UNregulated area, because with all the stupid people that are responsible for a "change" in official institutions we'll get nowhere or at least nowhere near we'd like to be anytime soon. 

Edited by VidX, 17 September 2009 - 02:05 PM.


#21 youandme

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Posted 21 September 2009 - 07:19 AM

That is really good news...! I can see much potential in drugs like Mozobil

One of those close to my heart is to put Autoimmune Diseases into remission.

Rebooting the Immune System....

Use Mozobil in combo with G-CSF and get those stem cells pumping out....extract them from the body..blow away the immune system..then reintroduce the stem cells...and grow a new Immune Sytem
......one hopefully autoimmune free !

Drugs like Mozobil could at last bring this kind o treatment to the clinic....(1000 such transplants have so far occured for Autoimmune Diseases...) it is still classed as experimental...and Im not sure why..!

Especially when you see fantastic stories like this..

http://www.muskogeep..._263212553.html

Cheers

Five years away. Always five years away. AND THEN, other countries will get it but the U.S. won't because the FDA will claim that it has not been thorougly tested. TRANSLATED: The FDA really means that some pharmaceutical co has developed more pills that they want to sell and stem cells would be a detriment to the sell of those pills.


I wouldn't be too worried drug companies are already working on stem cell therapies (through drugs though):

The drug Mozobil has such an effect when used with certain hormones, thus far based on animal studies. It might be too soon to celebrate but I believe this in itself is a great discovery and achievement.

http://www.newscient...ll-cabinet.html

Drugs to stimulate production of a patient's own stem cells could lead to simple new treatments to accelerate repair of broken bones and ligaments, or damaged cardiac tissue following heart attacks

The scope for patients to be treated with their own stem cells has been boosted by discovery of drug regimes that liberate specific types of stem cells from the bone marrow.

The discovery could lead to simple new treatments to accelerate repair of broken bones and ligaments, or damaged cardiac tissue following heart attacks.

Instead of injecting patients with stem cells from donors, embryos or stem cell banks, doctors could simply inject the drugs and the patients would produce the cells themselves. This would avoid complications of tissue rejection and sidestep ethical objections to using stem cells originating from embryos.

"It's promoting self-healing," says Sara Rankin of Imperial College London, and a member of the team that discovered the stem-cell liberating effects. "We're simply boosting what's going on naturally."

It has been previously possible to promote the release of stem cells that develop into blood cells. Now, for the first time, stem cells have been liberated that regenerate other tissues, such as bone and blood vessels, widening options for treatment............



#22 vingram6

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 07:53 PM

I noticed that the most recent post on this forum is dated September 2009. There are clinics using stem cells on humans now on sport injuries, osteoarthritus, etc. I have been looking for one here in Florida and found this doctor in Boca Raton.

http://stemcellortho....com/index.html

Have I got the right topic or has there been a new one added on this subject?

Thanks,
V. Ingram

Edited by vingram6, 16 May 2010 - 08:00 PM.


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#23 Blue

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Posted 16 May 2010 - 08:15 PM

Stem cell... You have to consider the cancer risk when manipulating and encouraging them. Unfortunately it may take some years before such a side effect appears.




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