Is there any way to counter Wellbutrin's anticholinergic effects? These effects of wellbutrin are implicated in the brain fog and diminished memory side effects of the drug, are they not?
Would nicotine, huperzine A, or galantamine be effective?
Posted 29 June 2009 - 08:27 PM
Posted 29 June 2009 - 10:16 PM
Posted 29 June 2009 - 10:26 PM
Nicotine + wellbutrin seems to be very effective combo. Most people will do better cognitively on wellbutrin, though, not worse.
Posted 30 June 2009 - 01:23 AM
Nicotine + wellbutrin seems to be very effective combo. Most people will do better cognitively on wellbutrin, though, not worse.
Posted 30 June 2009 - 03:01 AM
Is there any way to counter Wellbutrin's anticholinergic effects? These effects of wellbutrin are implicated in the brain fog and diminished memory side effects of the drug, are they not?
Would nicotine, huperzine A, or galantamine be effective?
Posted 30 June 2009 - 02:40 PM
Posted 30 June 2009 - 09:00 PM
nicotine + wellbutrin
aint that funny how wellbutrin is prescribed for people wanting to stop smoking, yet nicotine and wellbutrin might make up a good combo
just funny
wellbutrin works cognintion wise but there is something missing there, I agree
Posted 30 June 2009 - 11:26 PM
Posted 30 September 2009 - 12:53 PM
Posted 30 September 2009 - 12:57 PM
Posted 30 September 2009 - 01:09 PM
What the closest thing to supplements like ritalin, modafanil and stuff that you would class as herbs. I mean anything that is not prescription?
Posted 30 September 2009 - 05:18 PM
What the closest thing to supplements like ritalin, modafanil and stuff that you would class as herbs. I mean anything that is not prescription?
Posted 30 September 2009 - 05:54 PM
Posted 30 September 2009 - 06:22 PM
Posted 30 September 2009 - 07:11 PM
J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 1999 Jan;288(1):88-92.
Noncompetitive functional inhibition at diverse, human nicotinic acetylcholine receptor subtypes by bupropion, phencyclidine, and ibogaine.
Fryer JD, Lukas RJ.
Division of Neurobiology, Barrow Neurological Institute, Phoenix, Arizona, USA.
Nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (nAChR) are diverse members of the neurotransmitter-gated ion channel superfamily and play critical roles in chemical signaling throughout the nervous system. The present study establishes the acute functional effects of bupropion, phencyclidine, and ibogaine on two human nAChR subtypes. Function of muscle-type nAChR (alpha1 beta gamma delta) in TE671/RD cells or of ganglionic nAChR (alpha3 beta4 alpha5+/-beta2) in SH-SY5Y neuroblastoma cells was measured with 86Rb+ efflux assays. Functional blockade of human muscle-type and ganglionic nAChR is produced by each of the drugs in the low to intermediate micromolar range. Functional blockade is insurmountable by increasing agonist concentrations in TE671/RD and SH-SY5Y cells for each of these drugs, suggesting noncompetitive inhibition of nAChR function. Based on these findings, we hypothesize that nAChR are targets of diverse substances of abuse and agents used in antiaddiction/smoking cessation strategies. We also hypothesize that nAChR play heretofore underappreciated roles in depression and as targets for clinically useful antidepressants.
PMID: 9862757
Posted 30 September 2009 - 07:13 PM
Wellbutrin is not anticholinergic. Through a nebulous mechanism it increases the level of dopamine you have. Dopamine and acetylcholine have an antagonistic/mediating relationship, therefore it is plausible in some people's cases that by increasing the amount of dopamine you have, you will lose some acetylcholine. This is an oversimplification, but I think it answers your question.
One solution would be to take something like Centrophenoxine or DMAE, and a good choline source. Be very careful not to use too much though, because the acetylcholine/dopamine relationship is a double-edged sword: see my post on "acetylcholine and depression" in the Research forum.
Posted 30 September 2009 - 07:15 PM
welbutrin is anticholinergic:
J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 1999 Jan;288(1):88-92.
Noncompetitive functional inhibition at diverse, human nicotinic acetylcholine receptor subtypes by bupropion, phencyclidine, and ibogaine.
Fryer JD, Lukas RJ.
Division of Neurobiology, Barrow Neurological Institute, Phoenix, Arizona, USA.
Nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (nAChR) are diverse members of the neurotransmitter-gated ion channel superfamily and play critical roles in chemical signaling throughout the nervous system. The present study establishes the acute functional effects of bupropion, phencyclidine, and ibogaine on two human nAChR subtypes. Function of muscle-type nAChR (alpha1 beta gamma delta) in TE671/RD cells or of ganglionic nAChR (alpha3 beta4 alpha5+/-beta2) in SH-SY5Y neuroblastoma cells was measured with 86Rb+ efflux assays. Functional blockade of human muscle-type and ganglionic nAChR is produced by each of the drugs in the low to intermediate micromolar range. Functional blockade is insurmountable by increasing agonist concentrations in TE671/RD and SH-SY5Y cells for each of these drugs, suggesting noncompetitive inhibition of nAChR function. Based on these findings, we hypothesize that nAChR are targets of diverse substances of abuse and agents used in antiaddiction/smoking cessation strategies. We also hypothesize that nAChR play heretofore underappreciated roles in depression and as targets for clinically useful antidepressants.
PMID: 9862757
Posted 30 September 2009 - 07:24 PM
Edited by FunkOdyssey, 30 September 2009 - 07:24 PM.
Posted 01 October 2009 - 01:44 AM
It doesn't mean anything for focus and concentration, these are certainly enhanced by bupropion. It does have negative implications for memory, word recall -- the kind of things that nootropics are thought to improve. Not everyone notices any impairment, some do and some do not.
Posted 01 October 2009 - 05:50 PM
Posted 01 October 2009 - 06:13 PM
It doesn't mean anything for focus and concentration, these are certainly enhanced by bupropion. It does have negative implications for memory, word recall -- the kind of things that nootropics are thought to improve. Not everyone notices any impairment, some do and some do not.
Would an MAOI like Deprenyl ultimately impair memory/recall as I have noticed in Wellbutrin. I mean, I can focus and study for hours on it, but like you said, the recall isn't there. Its not like I'm very foggy but not as clear as when doing Ani/choline/Galantamine sans Wellbutrin.
So is it DA in general or the pathway of this one particular drug?
Posted 03 May 2010 - 02:39 PM
My personal experiences with it are greatly enhanced memory, both long term and short term. Anyone else have this odd reaction to it?It doesn't mean anything for focus and concentration, these are certainly enhanced by bupropion. It does have negative implications for memory, word recall -- the kind of things that nootropics are thought to improve. Not everyone notices any impairment, some do and some do not.
Posted 03 May 2010 - 04:58 PM
What the closest thing to supplements like ritalin, modafanil and stuff that you would class as herbs. I mean anything that is not prescription?
Posted 04 May 2010 - 12:20 AM
Posted 14 January 2014 - 03:27 PM
Posted 28 December 2016 - 05:03 AM
Has any welbutrin users here noticed an improvement in their memory in the long term?
Im wary of using it due to lots of anecdotes about memory loss on Welbutrin! despite claims that it is only a transient memory loss after which memory will actually improve due to Nach receptor upregulation.
Posted 28 December 2016 - 05:19 AM
Has any welbutrin users here noticed an improvement in their memory in the long term?
Im wary of using it due to lots of anecdotes about memory loss on Welbutrin! despite claims that it is only a transient memory loss after which memory will actually improve due to Nach receptor upregulation.
Posted 04 August 2017 - 02:29 PM
I'll check in there to find more evidence for Bupropion being anticholinergic or not? Is there anything new to add to the discussion, perhaps? How do the "not anticholinergic" guys explain the constipation many people experience under bupropion?
Thanks.
Posted 04 August 2017 - 07:18 PM
Arguably, the nicotinic acetylcholine antagonism at specific nAChRs is a major part of the antidepressant effect of wellbutrin. If you're taking it for depression, it very well might reduce the antidepressant effect of wellbutrin.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19497387
https://www.hindawi....wj/2012/104105/
I've read more studies on the subject, but that's what I found in just few minutes. The first study is specifically about bupropion and the second is about possible antidepressant effects of nAChR antagonists and agonists in general.
Posted 04 August 2017 - 10:00 PM
Arguably, the nicotinic acetylcholine antagonism at specific nAChRs is a major part of the antidepressant effect of wellbutrin. If you're taking it for depression, it very well might reduce the antidepressant effect of wellbutrin.
https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/19497387
https://www.hindawi....wj/2012/104105/
I've read more studies on the subject, but that's what I found in just few minutes. The first study is specifically about bupropion and the second is about possible antidepressant effects of nAChR antagonists and agonists in general.
Much thanks!
So by having an anti-nicotinic property it means bupropion is anticholingeric, right? I am not that much in the topic to understand much from the links :l
Why do so many sources claim the opposite. Like here: http://psychopharmac...hopharmacology/
Would love to have some insight from you, as you seem to be very knowledgeable
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