135 replies to this topic

[valkyrie_ice]

I think it's amazing you're being open about it, most people would probably leave in fear of being freaks or something, I think you are really brave.

how old are you? I really hope there is going to be a way to fix it any time soon, or if not soon, at least life extension so you will get to the era that has it.
Although it must be really hard to wait for it, maybe almost as hard as wondering if you will stay alive (probably really hard but if you stay alive you know you will get the other thing eventunally, though I am sure it is a living nightmare for you!)



I think it shows a lot about how ignorant people can be when regarding the "norms" of our society and "nature" and how sometimes the medical services are just making more harm than good.

I will turn 40 in October.

Basically I've lived through the ENTIRETY of the transexual revolution. I can remember when Renee Richards made headlines.

I've seen Transexualism go from being a forbidden under any curcumstances, never talked about subject, to occasional headlines, to occasional appearances in movies as "the villain", to occasional appearances in movies as an odd character, to occasional appearances as a sympathetic character, to today, when Two and a half Men can have it as the plot of an episode.

I've lived through the cultural adaptation to the meme. I just wish I hadn't had too, and could have simply been able to be free to be myself these last fourty years.

As for brave? No. I got over that a long time ago. Too many years of dealing with this has simply made me uncaring of what anyone else thinks.

I tried once to hint to my parents about who I really was. My Grandparents bought me a first edition D&D and AD&D boxed set, way back when Gygax first published them. I went through those books from cover to cover looking for anything about whether I could play a girl character (I think I was 10 at the time, but not really sure) and tried like hell to find a few friends who would be willing to play, all so I could get to be a girl in pretend at least.

Then my parents got the "D&D is a TOOL OF SATAN!!!!" sermon from the pastor, and burned everything.

As for the demoness part? If you are really interested I have the whole story online: http://www.furaffini...et/view/391219/

It's 30 pages of self analysis and the description of a reoccuring dream I have had since early childhood, one which has shaped much of who I am today by driving my interest in science and futurism.

Also, I never once had to deal with struggling over whether I was "gay" because I liked boys as well as girls. I knew I was a girl, knew I liked girls, knew I like boys too, but not as much, and basically just admitted to myself that it all boiled down to the fact I simply like sex, period. It's just part of being a succubus. XD

And yes. It is really hard being one thing, but being forced by a mistake in your biology to forever have to pretend to be something else. I am an outcast, and always have been. I do not fit in ANYWHERE. Among furries, I'm too human, among spiritualists, I'm too driven by evidence and scientific theory instead of revelations, among techies, I am to fantastic, among men I'm too girly, and I'm too much of a guy to fit in among girls. I've gotten used to that fact, to the point that I don't care if I "fit in" anymore. In the body I have in my dreams, i.e. that icon you see next to my posts, I'm a seven foot tall amazon, without counting my horns or wings. In secondlife, I revel in being a shapeshifter, using my various bodies to express my love of being sexually enticing. Sure some of it is wish fulfillment, my desire to be what I am NOT in life, but as flirtatious as I am, I am not given much to cybersex or really into the various fetishes. I'm actually a rather pedestrian girl in many ways, I just love being flirtatious and turning people on.


And that is why I support a lot of what this site is about. I want a better future, one where everyone is free to be what they want, and able to be who they want, where everyone can live without the kind of pain and mental suffering I have had to cope with. Because only if EVERYONE has that freedom, will I be free to be myself.

Edited by valkyrie_ice, 19 August 2009 - 08:52 PM.

[Shiroe]

http://www.thesun.co...-age-of-16.html

WOW, she's GORGEOUS! Nice work!

[RighteousReason]

Boy, 12, turns into girl

http://www.thesun.co...-into-girl.html

By BRIAN FLYNN
and VIRGINIA WHEELER
Published: Today
A BOY aged 12 turned up at school as a GIRL - after changing sex during the summer holidays.
Teachers called an emergency assembly to order fellow pupils to treat him as female.

The lad, whose parents have changed his name to a girl's by deed poll, arrived in a dress with long hair in ribboned pigtails. He is preparing for sex-swap surgery.

Angry parents told yesterday how their kids were left tearful and confused after school staff announced the boy pupil was now a girl.

They said the head teacher should have informed them in advance of the "sex change" so they could prepare their sons and daughters and inform them about gender issues.

They added that the school's failure to do so had left the boy to suffer cruel taunts and bullying.

One mum said: "They behaved appallingly by throwing this hand grenade into the room and then leaving the inevitable questions about it for unprepared parents.

"Maybe we could have explained sexual politics and encouraged our kids to be more sensitive if we'd had a chance to be involved."

Over the summer holidays his parents changed his name to a female one by deed poll. He is preparing to undergo hormone treatment and surgery - and could become the world's youngest sex-swap patient in the coming years.

The Sun knows his identity but will not reveal it. His mother told us last night: "We are committed to ensuring the very best for our child. We are working with other agencies to ensure our child's welfare is protected."

The 1,000-pupil school, in southern England, has given the lad a separate toilet and changing room in the sports hall.

It is understood he hoped his transformation would go unnoticed as he was starting secondary education and children stepping up from other primary schools would not recognise him.

But his former classmates at primary level DID spot the difference - and quickly spread the word.

The boy, who for years has told pals he yearns to be a girl, had to endure spiteful jibes and was asked by some kids: "Are you gay?"

Teachers stepped in with the emergency assembly, at which pupils were threatened with tough disciplinary action if they failed to treat him as a girl or use his new name. Some bewildered youngsters burst into tears.

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The mum, whose daughter was a classmate of the lad at primary school, said: "She told me the pupil is already a target for bullying.

"And what has really upset the parents is that the school didn't see fit to send us a letter first so we could explain it to our children in our own way.

"Parents surely have a right to know when their children are being confronted with such sensitive issues as gender realignment at such a young age.

"They were simply told, 'You may notice one pupil is not present in this assembly - that is because the pupil is now a girl.'

"Kids are by nature immature and insensitive. It is not fair either for the child who is undergoing this change. The girl, as she now is, will go through hell because of how this has been handled."

The lad was absent from school yesterday because of the taunts.

His family, who live on a council estate, have received threats and are under police protection.

It is understood the head at his primary school insisted he was treated as a boy - and used male toilets - despite his frequent "girlie" behaviour.

He wore a bikini instead of trunks at swimming lessons, dried himself on Barbie towels, rode a pink scooter to school and wore pink ribbons in his hair.

But a source at the secondary school, who referred to the pupil in both genders, said: "His parents have accepted he has now chosen to be a girl, and that's how he will be. She has not come into school since the assembly. There were things that went on in the community which have been extremely upsetting for the family.

"It was a knock-on effect from what was said in school. So they can't let her come in for her own safety. We have no idea exactly when she will be coming back, but she WILL be back."

Transgender counsellor David Hawley last night paid tribute to the pupil's "strength of character".

He said: "It is very unusual for a child of that age to be that clear about what they want to do. She has had a lot of support from her parents. So I imagine she was comfortable with herself before going to school and now she is discovering it can be a nasty world, which is hard at that age."

Psychotherapist James Caspian said the child would not be allowed hormone treatment in the UK until passing puberty. Meanwhile he and the other kids would have to cope with the shockwaves caused by the switch.

Mr Caspian said: "These children are old enough to have picked up a lot of taboos from society."

German Kim Petras - born Tim - became the world's youngest transsexual at 16 earlier this year.

[valkyrie_ice]

Boy, 12, turns into girl

Psychotherapist James Caspian said the child would not be allowed hormone treatment in the UK until passing puberty. Meanwhile he and the other kids would have to cope with the shockwaves caused by the switch.

Translation, until such a time as male hormones have hopelessly destroyed any hope of development into a feminine figure, voice, or brain chemistry via normal and natural processes, aid will be denied to this girl so that she can be a proper freak instead of a normal girl.

I was a small, effeminate boy. I made a very cute girl. Until puberty and a lot of bovine growth hormones in all the beef I ate in Texas changed all that. Now my only hope is full nanotech reconstruction. How many more people like me will we force to suffer the same fate.

[Luna]

Boy, 12, turns into girl

Psychotherapist James Caspian said the child would not be allowed hormone treatment in the UK until passing puberty. Meanwhile he and the other kids would have to cope with the shockwaves caused by the switch.

Translation, until such a time as male hormones have hopelessly destroyed any hope of development into a feminine figure, voice, or brain chemistry via normal and natural processes, aid will be denied to this girl so that she can be a proper freak instead of a normal girl.

I was a small, effeminate boy. I made a very cute girl. Until puberty and a lot of bovine growth hormones in all the beef I ate in Texas changed all that. Now my only hope is full nanotech reconstruction. How many more people like me will we force to suffer the same fate.

Aren't they going to give him gnrh at least? that's the proccedure in some places as far as I heard.

[RighteousReason]

Now boy, 9, is a girl

http://www.thesun.co...-is-a-girl.html

By BRIAN FLYNN
RHODRI PHILLIPS
and VERONICA LORRAINE
Published: Today
ANOTHER boy has turned up at school as a girl, it emerged yesterday - this time aged NINE.
Parents rapped the primary school in southern England for not alerting them, and for telling pupils at a special assembly.

Yesterday The Sun revealed that a boy of 12 had started the new term at secondary school as a girl.

Classmates of the nine-year-old sex-change boy were told he had left and been replaced by a girl.

The pupil returned to school the next day - in female uniform, with long hair in a ponytail, tied in pink ribbon.

Parents faced a flurry of questions from their bemused kids after school - and blasted staff at the primary for not informing them of the switch.

One concerned mum said: "My son came home from school and asked why one of his friends had become a girl. I thought he was joking, but he kept asking - that's when alarm bells began ringing.

"The pupil's classmates were told he had left and that a new girl would be starting in his place this term."

The Year Five children were told of what is believed to be Britain's youngest gender swap at the end of their first day back after the summer break.

A special assembly was held by the school's female head, their class teacher and the sex-change pupil's special needs teacher.

As the meeting progressed, staff seemed to acknowledge that the "new" pupil might be recognised by classmates.

The kids were told to call the pupil by a new name - which had been taped to a classroom peg.

The mum added: "They were told the new girl would be using the girls' toilet and that no-one should tease or bully her. If anyone saw the new girl being bullied they should stick up for her."


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She said: "It upsets me that staff didn't mention it to parents before talking to the pupils.

"We have had to deal with the fall-out from all this. It's not a situation I or other parents are comfortable with and we've not been given any help from the school about how to handle it.

"My son is too young to really understand the significance of what's happening. It's hard to explain to him.

"He doesn't understand the differences between girls' and boys' bodies yet. I'm terrified he'll ask me if he can become a girl as well."

Another parent said: "This is distressing for both parents and kids.

"This is the talk of the playground. The kids have been told to treat this new girl as they would any other pupil, but how can they? They're confused."

The pupil missed the first day at the school on the outskirts of a city in southern England but returned on the second in a blouse and female-cut hipster trousers. It is understood the headteacher had personally masterminded the situation and was keen to help the family ease the child back into school as smoothly as possible.

It is not known whether their name has been changed by deed poll. The pupil is too young to have undergone sex change ops or hormone therapy. Patients must be 18.

A school source said: "The boy had always been rather feminine but it was a complete shock to the teachers as well as parents when the family said he wanted to return as a girl.

"But the school decided to support the child and worked with the family to make the transition as sensitively as possible. It decided to take this action after his case was confirmed by five doctors."

Last night The Beaumont Society, the world's largest transgender organisation, said the nine-year-old gender swap child was the youngest case it had heard of.

A spokeswoman said: "This child is vulnerable to bullying and teasing. They and their family have been seriously misadvised. It is hard enough for an adult to change gender.

"To go the extent that this nine-year-old has gone is unique."

Gender counsellor James Caspian said: "People should not be surprised that a child so young has these feelings. What is more of a surprise is that the child has been able to express them openly, and that because of changes in society those around the child have been so supportive."

The case emerged yesterday as The Sun revealed that a 12-year-old boy had started their first term at secondary school in southern England as a girl.

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Parents who blasted the school and the child's parents on a social networking website were threatened with arrest yesterday.

Cops visited at least one mum and warned that she and others could face prosecution for harassment over their comments.

The pupil's family is under police protection at their home on a council estate.

[forever freedom]

9 years old... that's insane. One wonders if it's the kid or the parents who wanted her gender changed.

Edited by forever freedom, 19 September 2009 - 05:57 PM.

[valkyrie_ice]

9 years old... that's insane. One wonders if it's the kid or the parents who wanted her gender changed.

You obviously have not read any of the texts on Transgenderism.

Transgender behavior can be apparent in toddlers. Most transgendered patients are conscious of being the wrong gender as early as 5-8. This is not a "choice" it is a genetic heritage, just as sexual preference is. I was aware of my own messed up gender at age 7 or 8, and if I had been listened too at 9, I might possibly be a very happy woman now, instead of merely wishing I was one.

Despite the "uproar" I am very happy to see cases where parents actually cared enough for their child to listen and accept, rather than deny.

[RighteousReason]

Cobb teen told he can't dress like a female at school
http://www.ajc.com/n...-he-156500.html

Jonathan Escobar says he chooses to wear clothes that express himself. Skinny jeans, wigs, "vintage" clothing and makeup are the staples of his wardrobe.

"I don't consider myself a cross-dresser," he said. "This is just who I am."

But the 16-year-old says an assistant principal at North Cobb High School told him last week he needed to dress more "manly" for school, or consider being home-schooled. He had only been a student at the school for three days.

"I told myself I can't accept this," said Escobar, who wore a pink wig to school last Wednesday.

Escobar said the assistant principal told him his style of dress had caused a fight between students at the school. Two days later, he withdrew himself from the Kennesaw school.

"You can't wear clothing that causes a disruption," said Jay Dillon, spokesman for Cobb County schools.

Dillon said he believed Escobar arrived at school in a dress and heels. But Escobar said he never wore a dress. He says he opted for "skinny" jeans all three days with flats.

The district lists the dress code on its homepage. The rule states that students should "refrain from any mode of dress which proves to contribute to any disruption of school functions."

School administrators and teachers are the final judge of the appropriateness of clothing, according to the rule.

Escobar said he moved to Cobb County from Miami to live with his older sister. His Florida school didn't have an issue with the way he dressed, but his parents did. His sister, Veronica Escobar, urged her parents to let Jonathan come to live with her. Now she says she's shocked by what has happened.

"I didn't think they would take it this far," Veronica Escobar said.

Jonathan Escobar says he wasn't a disruption in the classroom, but he attracted attention in the lunchroom. "Everybody was surrounding me," he said.

On his second day of school, Escobar says he was pulled out of class to speak with a police officer who told him he was concerned about the student's safety.

"They should've told the students to back off," Escobar said. "They should have never given me the option of homeschooling or changing who I am."

In his short time at the Kennesaw school, Escobar apparently made quick friends. By Tuesday evening, nearly 900 supporters had joined a Facebook group called "Support Jonathan." Many were planning to purchase a bright pink T-shirt with the same phrase.

Escobar says he wants to be allowed to attend school and eventually graduate. But he doesn't want to stifle what he calls his art.

"If I can't express myself, I won't go to school," he said. "I want to get the message out there that because this is who I am, I can't get an education."

[forever freedom]

9 years old... that's insane. One wonders if it's the kid or the parents who wanted her gender changed.

You obviously have not read any of the texts on Transgenderism.

Transgender behavior can be apparent in toddlers. Most transgendered patients are conscious of being the wrong gender as early as 5-8. This is not a "choice" it is a genetic heritage, just as sexual preference is. I was aware of my own messed up gender at age 7 or 8, and if I had been listened too at 9, I might possibly be a very happy woman now, instead of merely wishing I was one.

Despite the "uproar" I am very happy to see cases where parents actually cared enough for their child to listen and accept, rather than deny.

Interesting, so you think that the person may not change once he goes through puberty? I mean, can a person really know which sex he is before going through puberty? It's just a question. Yes, in your particular case, you didn't change, but what about others?

Another sex change, now at 8... http://www.telegraph...sex-change.html

Edited by forever freedom, 15 October 2009 - 07:32 PM.

[Luna]

Taking example from Val, I guess they will either change and be guys o their life will be hard unless lucky ..

Edited by Luna, 16 October 2009 - 05:17 AM.

[Luna]

Why is it that we are not hearing about female to male? If what I saw in Israel is right, there are actually more of those than the other way around :O

[Shannon Vyff]

This is inspiring, I loved sharing it with my 10 year old son. He identifies as male, but I've had friends who are male who have felt female since their first memories. It is nice to be living in Europe, although I don't think England is quite as progressive as Germany Still, my favorite countries are those at the top of the list for where it is best for women to live, and I've not lived in one of those yet...

[valkyrie_ice]

9 years old... that's insane. One wonders if it's the kid or the parents who wanted her gender changed.

You obviously have not read any of the texts on Transgenderism.

Transgender behavior can be apparent in toddlers. Most transgendered patients are conscious of being the wrong gender as early as 5-8. This is not a "choice" it is a genetic heritage, just as sexual preference is. I was aware of my own messed up gender at age 7 or 8, and if I had been listened too at 9, I might possibly be a very happy woman now, instead of merely wishing I was one.

Despite the "uproar" I am very happy to see cases where parents actually cared enough for their child to listen and accept, rather than deny.

Interesting, so you think that the person may not change once he goes through puberty? I mean, can a person really know which sex he is before going through puberty? It's just a question. Yes, in your particular case, you didn't change, but what about others?

Another sex change, now at 8... http://www.telegraph...sex-change.html

Look up the textbook "Gender Dysphoria." Several of the case studies were of children showing signs of transgender behavior prior to even being able to speak, such as scooting along the floor for genital stimulation by boys instead of the typical touching. This was pointed to in children as young as 1 year.

Further case studies of Transgendered individuals show significant variations of brain chemistry in many cases, and an increase in the cross structural corpus callosum more typical of females than male.

Transgender is not and never has been a CHOICE. It is a disorder which some of us can cope with better than others. Most cases of Transgendered individuals "changing their minds" are due to peer pressure or social ostricism, not voluntary choice. Having dealt with this for forty years and having it still cause difficulties even with those who have known of my status for years I can assure, trans cannot choose what they are. We can hide it to varying degrees but that is all.

[valkyrie_ice]

Why is it that we are not hearing about female to male? If what I saw in Israel is right, there are actually more of those than the other way around :O

Mainly because femme to male is not as awkwardly noticeable as male to femme. F2M can pass as a slender or effeminate male, whereas very few post op M2F can be "pretty"

There is also the good old Freudian "penis envy" meme going as well. What man would voluntarily lose his source of power to become a lesser being? M2F have it far tougher than F2M because of the still all to real Male Chauvinistic mentality which is still prevalent in the states. Even among people who know what I am, I still often times get told to "Be A Man!" or get yelled at for not being manly enough. The double standard still applies.

I despise how I am treated as a male, despise how I am treated all too often online when someone "finds out" I'm male, and despise having to hide who I really am on a day to day basis just to be able to leave my room and interact with society.

And I'm not even one of those so desperate to live as a woman that I will work as a whore to raise the money for the operation, or will settle for a hack job just to finally feel like my body and soul match. Even knowing that in all likelihood I will finally be able to be a true woman in less than 15 to 20 years, with the strong likelihood of rejuvenation and the majority of my life still ahead of me, it does not remove the 40 years of pain I have already endured, or the further pain I must endure until it can finally end.

And that is providing I even live to see that day. My greatest fear is that I will die male. VR and surrogates might help, but in the end, only becoming what I have always felt myself to be will suffice.

[Luna]

Why is it that we are not hearing about female to male? If what I saw in Israel is right, there are actually more of those than the other way around :O

Mainly because femme to male is not as awkwardly noticeable as male to femme. F2M can pass as a slender or effeminate male, whereas very few post op M2F can be "pretty"

There is also the good old Freudian "penis envy" meme going as well. What man would voluntarily lose his source of power to become a lesser being? M2F have it far tougher than F2M because of the still all to real Male Chauvinistic mentality which is still prevalent in the states. Even among people who know what I am, I still often times get told to "Be A Man!" or get yelled at for not being manly enough. The double standard still applies.

I despise how I am treated as a male, despise how I am treated all too often online when someone "finds out" I'm male, and despise having to hide who I really am on a day to day basis just to be able to leave my room and interact with society.

And I'm not even one of those so desperate to live as a woman that I will work as a whore to raise the money for the operation, or will settle for a hack job just to finally feel like my body and soul match. Even knowing that in all likelihood I will finally be able to be a true woman in less than 15 to 20 years, with the strong likelihood of rejuvenation and the majority of my life still ahead of me, it does not remove the 40 years of pain I have already endured, or the further pain I must endure until it can finally end.

And that is providing I even live to see that day. My greatest fear is that I will die male. VR and surrogates might help, but in the end, only becoming what I have always felt myself to be will suffice.

I heard of some more than pretty, even beautiful, some are even models.
It's hard for any girl to get there..



I think she looks beautiful, her name is Harisu.

[valkyrie_ice]

I heard of some more than pretty, even beautiful, some are even models.
It's hard for any girl to get there..



I think she looks beautiful, her name is Harisu.

Definitely. some 1 to 2% can make extremely pretty girls, especially if they get to start hormones early enough. One was even a Bond girl I believe.

Sadly too many are like me though, with hips way too narrow, Adam's apples too big, large hands, etc. And if we can't afford massive cosmetic surgery (breast and other implants, etc) we're stuck looking like bad drag queens.

Take me. I'm 6'5" and built like a effing linebacker. without extensive cosmetic mods, I'm simply going to look like the worst diesel dyke in the world. Imagine a NFL quarterback in drag.

Now, I'm fine with the fact that I'm going to be a nearly 7 foot Amazon in heels, but I'd rather look like she hulk than the incredible hulk, Ya know?

Though to be honest, this is what I will eventually look like XD

[Luna]

O_o hips.. most girls I know would love to have no hips ^^

is there even a cosmetic surgery that can make you be smaller?

but I know big women, some are just as big as mom's bf.. or even taller.
Both of my cosmetician were tall big women with big hands are large frame and I am not sure you can do anything about the frame yet, it's probably something to do with the lungs, heart and womb.
I think their hands can cover me like men's do.. and I am just average I think

Being a girl doesn't mean being super beautiful, there are so many girls who would love to be better!

But I think there are many who did this change and might not look like maghen fox but sure look like women/girls.

And trust me! I hear so many saying "my hips are too big" and only a few saying "my hips are too small" that I don't think a guy with small hips will be that different.. which btw I see so many girls dating with guys with bigger hips than them that it might seem that biology had run wild!

No one really wants to be a pear shape! and all the models are inverted body shape and some might be hourglass.. makes you think how being womanly makes you beautiful suddenly!

[niner]

most girls I know would love to have no hips

That sounds like some sort of body dysmorphic disorder. Most guys seem favorably disposed to women with skinny waists and wide hips. Not fat hips, just wider than the waist. The "classic" measurements for the "ideal female form" were supposedly (in inches) 36, 24, 36. (bust, waist, hips, respectively) In the evolutionary (or something) analysis, wide hips would indicate to the male that the woman was likely to be of good childbearing potential, thus the ideal mate for purposes of spreading genes about the place. That analysis kinda takes the romance out of it... but all of our secondary sexual characteristics that we obsess over so extensively have their importance rooted in indications of being variously a good bearer of children or provider of food and protection. Not that these have so much relevance in the modern world, but our brains are still wired that way.

[valkyrie_ice]

O_o hips.. most girls I know would love to have no hips ^^

is there even a cosmetic surgery that can make you be smaller?

but I know big women, some are just as big as mom's bf.. or even taller.
Both of my cosmetician were tall big women with big hands are large frame and I am not sure you can do anything about the frame yet, it's probably something to do with the lungs, heart and womb.
I think their hands can cover me like men's do.. and I am just average I think

Being a girl doesn't mean being super beautiful, there are so many girls who would love to be better!

But I think there are many who did this change and might not look like maghen fox but sure look like women/girls.

And trust me! I hear so many saying "my hips are too big" and only a few saying "my hips are too small" that I don't think a guy with small hips will be that different.. which btw I see so many girls dating with guys with bigger hips than them that it might seem that biology had run wild!

No one really wants to be a pear shape! and all the models are inverted body shape and some might be hourglass.. makes you think how being womanly makes you beautiful suddenly!

Dear, I'm a pinup artist. Trust me. I know exactly correct proportions are rare, but there is a vast difference between hips as wide as your shoulders, which is classical female proportions, and hips that are narrower than your ribcage when you are NOT a body builder. I will not be a small woman until they can completely rebuild the body to any specific customization, but I have absolutely no wish to look like a triangle walking on it's point.


And to be honest, I have no intention of being anything less than an idealized female. I've had to cope with being stuck as what I am for this long, I want some recompense for it dammit! XP

Now to be serious, yes a lot of M2F do look acceptable, but they are much less common than F2M who look like normal men. When a M2F doesn't end up looking "passable" they take a LOT more flack from men than a F2M will.

I knew a M2F who made a gorgeous girl. She spent the night once at my place along time ago, and my redneck room-mate (who I was so glad to finally be able to get away from) harassed her because she had five o'clock shadow when she first woke up. She was less than a month from the final surgery, had been on hormones since early puberty, and had lived as a woman for nearly ten years while saving up for the surgery. She even had fully natural breasts. It made no difference since she hadn't yet been able to have depilatory treatments.

Girls wanting to be guys is fine, who wouldn't want to be a guy if thy could right? But guys who want to be girls are traitors to the male sex. There's even a special slang word I've had directed at me for playing a female on line, a Tarp (typo for Trap) which stands for a guy playing a girl who fools guys into thinking he's a girl.

Then there's that other wonderful slang I've been labeled with... G.I.R.L. (Guy in real life)

[Luna]

Most women have hips wider than their shoulders.. I don't think it's that pretty unless they have the bust to support it.

Personally my shoulders and hips are about the same size or shoulders are a bit more, though mom tells me that it can still change even though I am 20 O_o (though I dunno, I think I have wider shoulders than mom.. maybe), hips bones changing at 20 and after sounds weird.. but I think I look fine and better than the pear type. maybe having them equal is perfect.

But it's probably more because of the bust and waist..
I am not sure if the typical woman form is that amazing, but I guess that's why it's different than idealized..
I mean, most women I know have big hips, wider than their shoulders and smaller bust that looks like a triangle like this [u]/\{/u} I think it looks a bit weird.

But all those ideal figures you read about can be really confusing I mean there is like, 36/26(24?)36, but it';s like hips/waist/bust, what about the shoulders?
And the length of the torso can be different and it affects a lot, someone can be too tall, less curvy, bigger chest, smaller chest, bigger breasts..

And then there is all the ideal weight............................ the rest of the body, faces! faces are so much more..

And personally I don't think that picture you showed is that pretty, I think her body looks weird, maybe breasts are too big or hip shoulder thingy.. or all.. and her face too O_o
But it might be a matter of taste..

[valkyrie_ice]

Most women have hips wider than their shoulders.. I don't think it's that pretty unless they have the bust to support it.

Personally my shoulders and hips are about the same size or shoulders are a bit more, though mom tells me that it can still change even though I am 20 O_o (though I dunno, I think I have wider shoulders than mom.. maybe), hips bones changing at 20 and after sounds weird.. but I think I look fine and better than the pear type. maybe having them equal is perfect.

But it's probably more because of the bust and waist..
I am not sure if the typical woman form is that amazing, but I guess that's why it's different than idealized..
I mean, most women I know have big hips, wider than their shoulders and smaller bust that looks like a triangle like this [u]/\{/u} I think it looks a bit weird.

But all those ideal figures you read about can be really confusing I mean there is like, 36/26(24?)36, but it';s like hips/waist/bust, what about the shoulders?
And the length of the torso can be different and it affects a lot, someone can be too tall, less curvy, bigger chest, smaller chest, bigger breasts..

And then there is all the ideal weight............................ the rest of the body, faces! faces are so much more..

And personally I don't think that picture you showed is that pretty, I think her body looks weird, maybe breasts are too big or hip shoulder thingy.. or all.. and her face too O_o
But it might be a matter of taste..

Sadly Secondlife is still too low polygon to make truly good looking Avatars, but it's a start. Skins can help, but the actual avatar itself is very angular and hard to make true smooth curves. There are also limits to the slider bars since they are incremented in only a hundred steps with a limited range of scaling. I wish I knew how to use poser to make a better body morph, but I lack those skills.

I was trained somewhat as a classical artist, and learned numerous "rules of thumb" for drawing. Compared to the average secondlifer I have been complimented on managing to appear "curvy" at all.

There is no "perfect" figure, since the standards of beauty change constantly. My taste is more classical Greek or Renaissance, whereas most "beautiful" women in todays eyes I find to be far too skinny, looking too much like adolescent boys than women.

[fatboy]

My greatest fear is that I will die male.

I was whining about my hypogonadism to my brother (also hypogonadal) the other day and he said, "Look, we all start out female and, lacking medical intervention, many of us end up where we started. Either slap on your Androgel or give it to me."

So maybe you won't need surgery. Time might be enough.

[valkyrie_ice]

http://hplusmagazine...cyborg-feminist

Interesting article and responses.

[Shannon Vyff]

During discussion with my 10 year old boy a good point came up, if another boy can choose to have female hormones to be more female then why could not a 10 year old boy choose to have male hormones to be more manly (he'd like to be big and strong, and is frustrated with being 10 ;-) )--but yeah, we discussed health concerns, and that there may be an argument to support that, currently though male hormones would only be given if a boy was abnormally short or had a growth problem.

[Luna]

During discussion with my 10 year old boy a good point came up, if another boy can choose to have female hormones to be more female then why could not a 10 year old boy choose to have male hormones to be more manly (he'd like to be big and strong, and is frustrated with being 10 ;-) )--but yeah, we discussed health concerns, and that there may be an argument to support that, currently though male hormones would only be given if a boy was abnormally short or had a growth problem.

Actually I think it will stop his growth earlier.

I read about this, castrated men grow taller than normal men because testosterone causes bone plates fusion and apparently not bone growth.

To be precise, testosterone coverts to estrogen which seals the growth plates.

[rwac]

To be precise, testosterone coverts to estrogen which seals the growth plates.

So aromatase inhibitors will let you grow taller ?

[Luna]

To be precise, testosterone coverts to estrogen which seals the growth plates.

So aromatase inhibitors will let you grow taller ?

I guess O_o I googled and it seems body buildings below age 21 talked on forums about using DHT and aromatase inhibitors


http://www.elitefitn...ents-82941.html

http://www.musclesci...t-growth-41277/

Bodybuildiers are weird species.. and men!

Edit: I think they are using DHT for muscles, not bone growth.. personally I don't know if anything but growth hormone can make the bones grow more, but I didn't study the subject :D

Edited by Luna, 20 October 2009 - 06:31 PM.

[rwac]

Bodybuildiers are weird species.. and men!

What exactly strikes you as weird here ?
The idea of using a substance to increase your height/build ?

[Luna]

Bodybuildiers are weird species.. and men!

What exactly strikes you as weird here ?
The idea of using a substance to increase your height/build ?

that people want 50 inch rib cages and 2 meter tallness O_o I wouldn't date that!