12 replies to this topic

[Pike]

Hey all, Pike here. Never got around to fully posting my regimen, and I'd like to update this thread as I make changes in my regimen, so here goes!

Stats:
-Male, 20 years old, 175lbs, about 5'11"
-diagnosed combined-type ADHD
-family history of high blood pressure, but mine is fine at the moment

Activities:
- A 30 minute morning walk as soon as I wake up, 20min uphill, 10min downhill.
- 1.5-2 Hours per day (at least) of intense cardiovascular training done by a specific form of dancing called popping, a dance I've been doing for roughly 6 years now.
- 30 minutes (for maintenaince) or 1 hour (for muscle) of weighted isometric exercises.
- Unspecific amount of time spent reading, daily.

DAILY SUPPLEMENT REGIMEN:
(DISCLAIMER: The links that I'm providing are for the purpose of letting anyone see the Supplement Facts in case they don't know about the product):
____________________________________________
- NOW Foods - DHA-500 --> 2x a day, morning and night ==> The best DHA supplement on the market that I could find. Omega 3's have had multiple studies showing their efficacy of treating ADHD. In one study, they improved symptoms more than Ritalin.
- One-A-Day Men's Formula --> x1/day... obviously==> A trash multi- that I just picked up at my hospital. Impulse buy. Looking for a better multi.
- Life Extension - Ginkgo Biloba Certified Extract - 120mg --> x1/day ==> Enjoy the once-a-year aspect of buying it and seeing as Ginkgolic Acid is a B-6 antivitamin, the reduced form is pleasing to see. Ginkgo, along with Ginseng improved symptoms of ADHD in a pilot study.
- Life Extension - Rhodiola Extract --> 2x a day, morning and afternoon ==> Great adaptogen. Minor MAOI. Cycled 2 month on/off.
- Healthy Origins - CoQ10 (ubiquinone) 100mg Softgels --> x2/day, morning and night ==> For the time being, as I've run out of Idebenone
- Beyond a Century - Benfotiamine Powder --> 100mg x2/day ==> ADHDers have lower levels of b-vitamins so it made sense to use a more bioavailable one, and the anti-AGE benefit doesn't seem that bad.
- Beyond a Century - Panax Ginseng Powder --> 100mg x2/day ==> Has a whopping 25% ginsenosides, and, although I haven't seen any studies to support it, apparently helps develop portions of the brain that are typically underdeveloped in those w/ADHD. Synergizes well with ginkgo.
- Beyond a Century - Siberian Ginseng Powder --> 550mg x2/day ==> Technically, not a ginseng, but a great adaptogen and one of few that absorbs better with food. Made as a tea, it happens to taste pretty damn good. Haphazard cycle of 1 bottle p/year.
- Beyond a Century - Jiaogulan Powder --> 50mg x4/day ==> Insane 98% active ingredients. No nootropic effects really. Powerful adaptogen (then again, at 98%, any adaptogen would be)
- Beyond a Century - Silymarin Powder --> 100mg as needed ==> Typically just on weekends for some liver protection.
- Source Naturals - Bioperine 10mg --> x2/day ==> I'm aware of some of the concerns people have about it. However, the only prescribed drug which I use is the occasional Adderall, which is only a minor CYP2D6 substrate. I use it once in the morning&night to enhance the absorption of everything, in particular (hopefully) the herbs, omega 3's, and the benfotiamine. I have no idea if it actually is, however.
- Life Extension - Melatonin 750mcg Timed Release --> a few times a week for immune system enhancement.
- Beta-Alanine - 1000mg x4/day - Couldn't resist after reading all the benefits of Carnosine.
- Green Tea - 2 cups/day.

NOTES/QUESTIONS
- I think I'm going to include some methylcobalamin into the regimen. I'm considering AOR's "Methylcobalamin ULTRA" used once per week? I don't want a daily b-12. I think the giant 15mgs would be good for a week.
- For neuroprotection from my prescribed Adderall, I was thinking about incorporating 10mgs of Memantine 2-3x a week (has a 60-100hour half life).
- Thinking about throwing in a nice activated B-Complex, preferably one with p5p, to be used on the weekends. any suggestions? Pyridoxamine looking to come back? Maybe get p5p instead?
- What's the cheapest, reliable source for Idebenone CAPSULES, no powder. Had great experience with it in the past, but I now question the authenticity of the vendor I bought from.
- Any reason, besides the concerns over the cytochrome-p450 enzyme series modifications, bioperine shouldn't be in my regimen?
- Odd question, but have there been any delivery systems aside from oral that have shown to enhance DHA/EPA bioavailability? Could one inject a high-potency fish-oil for full bioavailability?
- Looking for a new multi. The one I have right now is trash. I'm just looking for a decent multi, no more than 2 caps p/serv., that has a good zinc in it.
- Any other suggestions on things that can be added/chopped for the regimen? I cycle quite a bit, so I can always add something in later.

[Jacovis]

Hey there Pike.. your regimen looks pretty extensive...
Obviously there is stuff like 'stress-relieving techniques (like meditation/holosync/light and sound machines even)' and 'socialising' that might also go into this kind of regimen - indeed I need to get into a habit of doing more of these things myself

- Odd question, but have there been any delivery systems aside from oral that have shown to enhance DHA/EPA bioavailability? Could one inject a high-potency fish-oil for full bioavailability?

Not sure about delivery systems but I do believe that DHA/EPA in some kind of enhanced form could be the key 'natural remedy' for ADHD.
Some of the ones I want to try at some point are:
- Enzymotec's Sharp-PS™ PLATINUM PS-DHA/EPA conjugation
- Brudy's Algatrium branded DHA

Enzymotec's Sharp-PS™ PLATINUM PS-DHA/EPA conjugation isn't yet publicly available. For what it's worth below are some details of an 'internal' [:o] study Enzymotec did on a product called Sharp●PS™ PLATINUM on schoolchildren with ADHD. This product is similar to their Sharp●PS™ GOLD except the PLATINUM version is a unique PS-DHA/EPA conjugation whereas the GOLD version is simply a PS-DHA conjugation. Now the GOLD formulation is available now in Country Life's Sharp Thought™ and Source Naturals' Phosphatidyl Serine DHA Optimized products as well as being in LEF's Cognitex with NeuroProtection Complex.

http://www.nutrition...?ArticleID=2159
One growing trend for manufacturers of cognitive-health supplements is the use of ingredients that combine phospholipids with omega-3 fatty acids. For instance, at the 2007 Annual Meeting of the Pediatric Academic Societies (The Woodlands, TX) held May 5–8 in Toronto, researchers presented a study funded by Enzymotec Corp. (Migdal HaEmeq, Israel) that tested the effects of Sharp-PS Platinum, a PS/DHA/EPA conjugation, on more than 60 schoolchildren with attention deficit and hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).

“Providing Sharp-PS Platinum to these children had a pronounced impact on their Test of Variables of Attention scores,” says Dori Pelled, PhD, Enzymotec’s chief technical officer. Using a computerized attention-testing system called the Test of Variables of Attention (TOVA), the researchers found that about 60% of the subjects presented asymptomatic scores by the end of the study. “We find it very reassuring that the alleviated TOVA results were highly correlated with the incorporation of this product into the blood components,” Pelled says. “It seems that conjugation of omega-3s to phospholipids has a significant beneficial effect on cognitive performance.”


http://www.nutraingr...s-North-America
New high bioavailability DHA reaches North America
By Lorraine Heller, 14-May-2009

A concentrated DHA ingredient that claims to closely resemble DHA found in human breast milk has been launched on the North American market, following a distribution agreement between Spanish firm Brudy and New Jersey-based Xsto Solutions.
The structural similarities between Algatrium branded docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) omega-3 and the DHA found and utilized in the human body mean that it is more bioavailable and bioactive than other alternatives on the market, claim the companies.

Algatrium, which is derived from fish oil, is made using a technology that Brudy first started working on ten years ago. This uses natural enzymes to concentrate DHA in the second position on the triglyceride molecule, which is the structural form found in human breast milk.

Triglycerides, which are the lipid forms that omega-3 DHA and EPA are found in, are made up of glycerol molecules with three fatty acids linking to them.

DHA from fish or algae is generally found in the first or third positions on the triglyceride backbone. When it is consumed, the body converts and stores most of it in tissue in the second position.

“In the case of Algatrium, we are enzymatically doing (outside the body) what our body would normally do internally be rearranging and concentrating the DHA molecule from the one and three position on the triglyceride backbone to the number two position,” explained Brudy and Xsto.

According to the companies, this allows for a higher bioavailability and bioactivity of the ingredient compared to some other sources of DHA.

Although Brudy’s technology can be applied to omega-3 from algae or vegetal sources, the firm says that fish is currently the “optimal” source of raw material.

Antioxidant benefits

Another major property of the Algatrium ingredient is that it can boost antioxidant activity in the body, explained Brudy.

By increasing intracellular concentration of the antioxidant glutathione, the company claims its ingredient can help cells in the human body increase their antioxidant activity by 300 percent.

This antioxidant activity is supported by six in vitro trials and two human trials, said Xsto.

The Algatrium studies used cycling athletes in strenuous workouts to create metabolic stress, oxidative stress and possible DNA damage, explained Dan Murray, VP of business development at Xsto. Some of the findings included decreased DNA damage, decreased oxidative damage, and an increase in total plasma anti-oxidant capacity.

Alagtrium will be marketed for both its antioxidant benefits and the heart and cognitive benefits associated with DHA in general.

“Brudy focuses on the anti-oxidant benefit above all else (…) While Xsto agrees the product has significant anti-oxidant benefit, we feel this is not communicating the full value of the product. It is, after all, DHA and deserves to carry all the claims and benefits of DHA products. However, with its enhanced bioavailability, it can claim all the regular benefits plus the more potent anti-oxidant claim researched as well,” Murray told NutraIngredients-USA.com.

“As the Brudy process is more expensive than normal processing, we will be priced at a premium to regular sources of DHA. We will need to clearly distinguish ourselves from ‘regular’ DHA.”

To watch a short video with Brudy’s director general Francisco Gassó and Xsto’s VP of business development Dan Murray, click here .

[Pike]

whoa! that new DHA form seems pretty promising.

hmm, perhaps adding a bit of Phosphatidyl-Serine would stabilize the membranes of the DHA allowing for better absorption? Maybe I should add a bit of Phosphatidyl-Choline (or even low-dose cdp-choline) to it to round off the membrane-stabilizing boost for enhancing the DHA absorption. Everything else besides my occasional silymarin and Co-Q10 have pretty decent bioavailability/absorption.

[jpars82]

How's your regimen working for you? Do you find the adaptogens helpful?

[Pike]

How's your regimen working for you? Do you find the adaptogens helpful?

My regimen is working really well actually! I haven't been taking my omega-3 supplement long enough to match the studies that show the drastic cognitive improvement yet. The adaptogens are great during those days where I decide to give myself a "medication weekend." I'm typically a very anxious and wound-up kinda dude, and the adaptogens are great for balancing out a bit and calming down. Jiaogulan is the best for calming down, while I'd say Eleuthero or Rhodiola Rosea are the best for "stabilizing." The Eleuthero&Ginseng go well with Ginkgo.

[jpars82]

So is it a high DHA form of fish oil we should be taking for ADHD? I thought I read elsewhere that DHA has no effect on ADHD and competes with EPA, so it's a high EPA supplement we should be taking. ??? Conflicting information around. I'm trying to figure out whether I should be taking high dha, high epa, or a balance of both.

[Pike]

actually, i've heard the exact opposite in terms of epa/dha and as i understood, EPA inhibits some of the functions of DHA. DHA is found in massive concentrations of the brain, up to 40% of the fat composition, i believe. EPA, however, is only found in marginally low concentrations of the brain and is converted into DHA anyway, but at crappy rates (like 3% for women and almost nothing for men).

[jpars82]

Hmmm... yeah I'm not sure where I read that at.... here's an article I came across on BBC though:

http://www.bbc.co.uk...ega_three.shtml

Says that EPA is found in low concentrations in the brain but plays a functional role on hormones and blood flow, while DHA has a structural role. Also says that most US researchers seem to favor DHA and most British researchers seem to favor EPA. I don't know... I think I'll stick with high DHA for now.

Also Pike, have you ever had the chance to try Guanfacine?

Edited by jparsell82, 20 August 2009 - 07:11 PM.

[steven d]

I use 15 capsules a day of "neptune" krill oil and it's working wonderfully against ADD (concentration problems).

Krill oil has phospholipids (phosphatidylcholine) bonded to DHA/ EPA and works much better then fish oil.

Edited by steven d, 19 September 2009 - 02:57 PM.

[Pike]

Hey everyone! Pike here with an update to my regimen. I've rearranged it to fit a smaller college budget. The list may be longer than when I first posted, but it's still less expensive [most of the money saved comes from switching my omega-3 supplement]. Not included in this regimen is my prescription Adderall and my activities (such as exercise, etc.) because those have remained the same since I first posted them.

jparsell82 - not sure if you're still on the boards, but no I haven't had any experience with guanfacine. in fact, i had never even heard of it being used for adhd.

and without further ado, my newly condensed regimen for treating ADHD with a spicy anti-aging kick:

SUPPLEMENTS
- Fish Oil - containing 400/200mg EPA/DHA x3 per day --> switched to an EPA heavy supplement in response to a study i found showing that DHA was largely ineffective in the treatment of ADHD. Also using for longevity.
- Magnesium Complex - containing 298, 285, 283, and 288mg of Magnesium Oxide, Amino Acid Chelate, Malate and Taurinate, respectively. Yields 300mg elemental magnesium --> in response to the literature supporting magnesium's efficacy in treating ADHD and for longevity.
- Vitamin D3 - 5000 IU --> for longevity and because the high dose is still relatively safe.
- Gamma E Tocopherol Complex - containing 34, 300, 100 and 7mg of Alpha, Gamma, Delta and Beta tocopherols, respectively --> used to complement fish-oil use and as a preventative measure to avoid Vit-E depletion associated with high PUFA diets.
- Vitamin B6 as Pyridoxal-5-Phosphate - in response to the literature supporting b6's effifacy for ADHD treatment.
- Zinc Complex - containing 15mg Zinc as monomethionate and 1mg Copper as copper gluconate --> in response to the literature supporting the efficacy of zinc in both ADHD treatment and as an efficacy-booster to ADHD medications.
- Melatonin - 5mg on an 8 hour time release --> for both longevity and ADHD treatment. Taken once a day on the weekdays, weekend breaks.

NOOTROPICS
- Centrophenoxine - 250mg --> was previously using CDP-Choline but after doing a general price comparison, i found that Centrophenoxine is roughly the same price as CDP. However, seeing as I responded much better to Centro, I've made the switch with pleasing results. Plus, Centro was my first nootropic that I ever tried, so I have some experience with it. 1 cap per day at breakfast, taking weekend breaks from use.
- Selegiline - 2.5mg x2 --> Despite MAOIs being super contraindicated with my prescription amphetamines, I incorporated this into my regimen after I found a LARGE body of information that generally suggests Selegiline is a very effective tool at eliminating both the cardiovascular side-effects and the receptor downregulation associated with ADHD-med use. This, on top of the fact that it's the only available catecholamine-activity-enhancer on the market (or at least until BPAP and PPAP become available) makes it seem like a perfect complement to prescription amphetamine treatment.
- Memantine - 10mg x2 --> The more I do research on this compound the more I find reasons to incorporate it into my regimen. LOW-AFFINITY (!!!) NMDA-receptor antagonist acting an an uncompetitive level, BDNF upregulation, antagonizes the receptor without interfering with normal glutamate activity, enhances the effect of roughly all dopaminergics, and a laundry list of other things.
- Acetyl-L-Carnitine - 500mg x3 - for longevity and ADHD treatment. I try to always take it on an empty stomach, preferably spaced out at least an hour or two before taking Centrophenoxine.
- Green Tea - 3 cups per day --> I put this under the nootropic category after discovering the literature suggesting that it's both a COMT-inhibitor and a DOPA-Decarboxylase inhibitor, but I also drink it for longevity.

TAKEN AS NEEDED
- Nicotine - 2mg in lozenge form --> occasionally on the weekends or when studying.
- Ginkgo Biloba - 120mg (24/6%) --> Doesn't really help that much with memory, but it makes a damned good cure for headaches!
- Eleuthero - 550mg (0.8%) in tea form --> I understand that this is both a nootropic and longevity herb. I just drink it because I like the taste. Usually taken on the weekends to avoid any possible medication interaction.
- Piracetam - 800mg --> Occasionally on the weekends, when I don't use my prescription amphetamines, to help balance out the vasoconstriction I get from them.

CYCLES --> these are just things that I haven't bought yet, but plan to temporarily incorporate into my regimen at some point or another
- Noopept - 5mg x2 --> an exciting nootropic that shares a similarity to a desmopressin fragment. I'd have to cycle it simply because it would be too expensive to incorporate into my daily regimen.
- Vinpocetine - 10mg x4 --> I understand the risks involved in its use. However, seeing as I never got around to consistently supplementing it, I'd be willing to experiment with it at some point or another and asses its actual efficacy as a nootropic taken chronically. Still, it's not something I'd take longer than 2 months.
- Pramiracetam - 250mg x2 --> just because it seems to be the only 'racetam that elicits an effect that the others don't, which is a generally enhanced goal-oriented drive. Has to be cycled because of the price tag.
- Sceletium Tortuosum - 100mg x2 --> a terribly interesting herb that I recently found out acts as both a PDE-4 inhibitor and an SSRI! So, like PDE-4 inhibs, it would probably enhance wakefullness. The added benefit of the SSRI mechanism could lead to some enhanced hippocampal neurogenesis. I'd cycle it just because I don't have any experience with it.
- Ergoloid Mesylates - 4.5mg --> I had a very positive experience with this before. Cycled for the sake of avoiding the adverse effects seen in prolonged Ergot use.

Leave some comments/feedback/questions if you like!

Edited by Pike, 05 November 2009 - 08:50 AM.

[jpars82]

Guanfacine immediate-release(Tenex) is a blood pressure med sometimes used for ADHD, more so for hyperactivity than for attention. Last week, Shire released an extended release form of Guanfacine called Intuniv. Most everything I've read on it shows it's mainly helpful for hyperactivity, a few have said it's mildly helpful for focus. There's one study that shows it improved working memory:

http://www.nature.co...s/1395310a.html

Guanfacine, But Not Clonidine, Improves Planning and Working Memory Performance in Humans
ABSTRACT

The present study compares, using a double-blind, placebo controlled design the effects of two alpha2-agonists, clonidine (0.5, 2, and 5 mug/kg) and guanfacine (7 and 29 mug/kg) on spatial working memory, planning and attentional set-shifting, functions thought to be dependent on the "central executive" of the prefrontal cortex. Blood pressure and the subjective feeling of sedation were affected equally by clonidine and guanfacine. The 0.5 mug/kg and 5 mug/kg doses of clonidine disrupted spatial working memory, but the medium dose had no effect. The 0.5 and 2 mug/kg doses of clonidine increased impulsive responding in the planning test. The 5 mug/kg dose of clonidine slowed responding at effortful levels of planning and attentional set-shifting tests. The 29 mug/kg dose of guanfacine improved spatial working memory and planning. Guanfacine had no effect on attentional set-shifting. These data indicate that guanfacine improved planning and spatial working memory, but clonidine dose-dependently disrupted performance. It is possible that the greater selectivity of guanfacine for alpha2A-adrenoceptor subtype may underlie its differences from clonidine.

Anyways, I think it may be more helpful in conjunction with a stimulant. I'm headed to the doc later this week and would like to try a combination of Adderall, Intuniv, Memantine, along with some supplements.

[jpars82]

One more thing, I've thought about incorporating Centro into my regimen before but have heard from multiple people that it's caused them depression. Do you get this side effect?

[Pike]

One more thing, I've thought about incorporating Centro into my regimen before but have heard from multiple people that it's caused them depression. Do you get this side effect?

not at all. however, keep in mind that my regimen incorporates some major dopaminergics, so my current use of it will not be like others. for what it's worth, though, i had no emotionally depressive side effects the first time i tried it.

one side effect i DID notice (which was probably brought about by use of ADHD medications concomitantly [yeah, i was stupid and didn't know better at the time]) was that i became a bit more irritable. but again, my circumstances might exclude me from the "expected" side effects group.