107 replies to this topic

[Guacamolium]

$2000 for 5g is a really good price. About half what negcreep paid for his 500mg. But it's also a lot more money. That's how they get ya.

I might still be interested in a sample size for a month or so. Even if the unit price is weak, $100 is a lot less to risk than $500-2000. Did biomatik say they would ship to private parties?

Oh yeah, hit them up with an 75 percent 29mg order and I'm sure you won't pay too much, and get the gist of the molecule without worries. Guy's quick with his invoices. I was impressed, unlike Ewebe... (ARRRRGH)

[Guacamolium]

Well as yowza said, bacteriostatic water (with benzyl alcohol) seems like it might be a viable alternative. Do you know off the top of your head if that wouldn't be as effectively anti-microbial as methyl paraben, or somehow less desirable for intranasal administration?

Oh, with acetate as the terminus, you want bacteriostatic water. Shop around. I bet you can get one for 3 bucks. It'll last you for a awhile.

[Negcreep]

Thanks a lot for the info!

Do you filter the solution after you put the peptide in (i.e. does the methyl paraben keep crashing out)? One would imagine it would still be effective even in non-saturating concentrations...

I have been filtering the paraben and water mix through the filter then adding the peptide. The paraben, once dissolved , stays dissolved. You can smell/taste it in the spray, it smells a bit like soap, which makes sense because its used in lots of soaps. The paraben seems to work well , I haven't noticed that the mixture 'goes bad' after 22 days in the fridge or anything.
The russian instructions I posted claim that the mix will last 2 years in the fridge and they only use purified or distilled water. Which is the same as I use in the lab.Its basically just heated and condensed water which should be sterile and pure with no additives (chlorine and fluoride in tap water etc).

Bacteriostatic water could be a better option however I agree. But I don't feel the need to try this right now as the Distilled water/ paraben seems to be doing the job. The amount of paraben Im adding is the same as they are using in russia and I dont think theres much need to worry about paraben toxicity....its a widely used preservative, you probably get a bigger dose of from washing your hands or having a shower than from a selank mix. If you were allergic to paraben you would know about it by now...its just in too many products.

There may be some degradation in the potency of my mix towards the last few days of use.(not to say that it doesnt work) but I might have just imagined it. I could probably get around this by making 10-15mls at a time instead of 20ml if need be.

Over all I'm finding Selank pretty good in the treatment of anxiety. It has no side effects to speak of, and you dont feel high or sedated like with SSRI's and benzos. I just have less anxiety and feel a lot more stable and in control of myself. Its a good feeling. There is still some lingering anxious feelings but as long as Im able to fucntion well at work and socially then I can live with it.

Ps Damn Biomatik is very cheap....will try them for my next order. Shame that wont be for another 11 months or so I just ordered a 1000mg 90% for 475 (shipping included)

*Also, I have a question for you guys. I know that its important for us to order peptides in 'acetate form' or in other words with an acetyl group on the N-terminus. But do we need any modification to the C-terminus? Like Free acid/Amide/other?

Edited by Negcreep, 30 April 2010 - 10:49 AM.

[Negcreep]

More discussion on how to source selank peptide and creature a mixture for use here: http://www.imminst.o...o...=40646&st=0

(Unless the threads get merged in which case you will find it here! )

[Guacamolium]

Ps Damn Biomatik is very cheap....will try them for my next order. Shame that wont be for another 11 months or so I just ordered a 1000mg 90% for 475 (shipping included)

*Also, I have a question for you guys. I know that its important for us to order peptides in 'acetate form' or in other words with an acetyl group on the N-terminus. But do we need any modification to the C-terminus? Like Free acid/Amide/other?

If you guys really want, I can try for even cheaper. Biomatik (though very fast and cordial) alludes to their higher pricing in the way they market themselves, meaning, there are other companies out there that probably go even cheaper. Molecularstation would probably hook me up seeing as how I was shortly in the peptide business myself.

Very rarely do you need to modify the C-terminus. It's usually when you have an unstable functional group there that would get cleaved before hitting its target site. The N-terminus basically gets altered to alter the times it gets allowance at the receptors. Acetate is short form, meaning short time at the receptors. It's also there so the peptides can dodge the enzyme protease traveling along in the blood stream. Protease doesn't like fatty acid chains on proteins and they basically walk passed each other whistling and not making eye contact, so to speak.

[chrono]

There may be some degradation in the potency of my mix towards the last few days of use.(not to say that it doesnt work) but I might have just imagined it. I could probably get around this by making 10-15mls at a time instead of 20ml if need be.

Will be interested to hear if you notice this again. Do peptides usually degrade quicker in water, I'm assuming? How are you storing the rest; are you taking any extra precautions to exclude air and moisture?

Over all I'm finding Selank pretty good in the treatment of anxiety. It has no side effects to speak of, and you dont feel high or sedated like with SSRI's and benzos. I just have less anxiety and feel a lot more stable and in control of myself. Its a good feeling. There is still some lingering anxious feelings but as long as Im able to fucntion well at work and socially then I can live with it.

This sounds pretty nice. May be worth trying to combine with one of these other next-gen Russian anxiolytics, like tenoten or perhaps Afobazol, for stronger results.

Have you noticed any cognitive enhancement? I have a bunch of selank papers I need to get around to reading, but I remember enhanced learning being mentioned at least once.

If you guys really want, I can try for even cheaper. Biomatik (though very fast and cordial) alludes to their higher pricing in the way they market themselves, meaning, there are other companies out there that probably go even cheaper. Molecularstation would probably hook me up seeing as how I was shortly in the peptide business myself.

I would certainly appreciate this. I really like the idea of a sample size, but $100 for 20 days or so is still kinda steep. I was planning on looking around a little more in the near future, but you definitely know what to look for more than me.

I took a quick look at some (pretty expensive) custom peptide synthesis places when you suggested it. The price per AA seemed to rise very sharply as you increased the purity from crude, to 75% and up. In general pharmaceutical chemistry, something like 75% purity would probably be considered dangerous (depending on the reaction products). In peptide synthesis, is this not the case? Are these just free AAs, and not erroneously combined peptides which could have unknown effect? Is there any advantage to getting 95% over 75%, like less competition for absorption?

[Negcreep]

There may be some degradation in the potency of my mix towards the last few days of use.(not to say that it doesnt work) but I might have just imagined it. I could probably get around this by making 10-15mls at a time instead of 20ml if need be.

Will be interested to hear if you notice this again. Do peptides usually degrade quicker in water, I'm assuming? How are you storing the rest; are you taking any extra precautions to exclude air and moisture?

Over all I'm finding Selank pretty good in the treatment of anxiety. It has no side effects to speak of, and you dont feel high or sedated like with SSRI's and benzos. I just have less anxiety and feel a lot more stable and in control of myself. Its a good feeling. There is still some lingering anxious feelings but as long as Im able to fucntion well at work and socially then I can live with it.

This sounds pretty nice. May be worth trying to combine with one of these other next-gen Russian anxiolytics, like tenoten or perhaps Afobazol, for stronger results.

Have you noticed any cognitive enhancement? I have a bunch of selank papers I need to get around to reading, but I remember enhanced learning being mentioned at least once.

If you guys really want, I can try for even cheaper. Biomatik (though very fast and cordial) alludes to their higher pricing in the way they market themselves, meaning, there are other companies out there that probably go even cheaper. Molecularstation would probably hook me up seeing as how I was shortly in the peptide business myself.

I would certainly appreciate this. I really like the idea of a sample size, but $100 for 20 days or so is still kinda steep. I was planning on looking around a little more in the near future, but you definitely know what to look for more than me.

I took a quick look at some (pretty expensive) custom peptide synthesis places when you suggested it. The price per AA seemed to rise very sharply as you increased the purity from crude, to 75% and up. In general pharmaceutical chemistry, something like 75% purity would probably be considered dangerous (depending on the reaction products). In peptide synthesis, is this not the case? Are these just free AAs, and not erroneously combined peptides which could have unknown effect? Is there any advantage to getting 95% over 75%, like less competition for absorption?

I've done a bit of work using peptide drugs at my lab and my boss was worried about how long they keep for so I ended up asking a company how long they last. Short answer peptides are very susceptible to degradation by bacterial pepidases and also oxydation, temperature etc. So as soon as you warm them up, dissolve in water, and expose to microorganisms in the world around you then they dont tend to last very long. Also the amount of time a peptide lasts is highly dependant on its unique biochemistry. The presence of certain amino acids etc. I checked the selank doesnt have any aa's that would cause it to degrade quickly and tyhe manufactureres claim it will last for 2 years a 4oC. This surprised me as the peptide synthesis companies say that you can only expect a peptide to last for years if it is frozen at -20 to -80oC and not dissolved in water. I think they would claim a dissolved peptide at 4oC would only last a few days. So im guessing that Selank is quite a stable peptide and also that the methyl paraben is a pretty good preservative for our needs, and also that these companies lie a bit in order to get you to order more peptide for your lab. Well I suppose if you're using it for experiments you want it 100% active so the results dont get messed up but for our needs it can last much longer.

Cant say I've noticed any cognitive enhancement really. Before I started Selank I felt like shit. Now I feel a lot less like shit ....my brain works better as a result. Its hard to say if Ive got any real enhancements I can say are caused by Selank. But it is a damn good anxiolytic!

I am quite pleased people are finding cheaper and better sources. I hope one day we find one that will supply to private addresses.....I don't know how long I will be working at my lab. My situation could change (in a year or so) and I'd lose my ability to order (Not to mention the lab environment to mix it). At least at the moment I can order a years supply at a time without problem.

Funny you should mention Afobazol, I tried it a while back. I have some pretty nasty stomach problems (from SSRI use) so unfortunately I couldnt tolerate it. But I have a few friends in a google group called 'Agomelatine Psyconauts' who have tried it and find it pretty good for anxiety. This is also a good group to join as we have a source located in the Ukraine who charges a lot less for things than pharmacy1010.

Edited by Negcreep, 30 April 2010 - 07:40 PM.

[Guacamolium]

Will be interested to hear if you notice this again. Do peptides usually degrade quicker in water, I'm assuming? How are you storing the rest; are you taking any extra precautions to exclude air and moisture?

I took a quick look at some (pretty expensive) custom peptide synthesis places when you suggested it. The price per AA seemed to rise very sharply as you increased the purity from crude, to 75% and up. In general pharmaceutical chemistry, something like 75% purity would probably be considered dangerous (depending on the reaction products). In peptide synthesis, is this not the case? Are these just free AAs, and not erroneously combined peptides which could have unknown effect? Is there any advantage to getting 95% over 75%, like less competition for absorption?

To slow peptide degradation you have to keep the vials in the fridge. Before reconstitution, you can vacuum-seal them in a bag (if you have that kind of thing) and put in a deep freezer. They'll last for a couple years without humidity, heat, or light.

In peptide synthesis the cruder it get, the more loose amino acids you have floating around in the mix. There's no presence of reagents so they don't start making smaller peptides that cause cancer or anything. Just loose aminos.

[Guacamolium]

Cant say I've noticed any cognitive enhancement really. Before I started Selank I felt like shit. Now I feel a lot less like shit ....my brain works better as a result. Its hard to say if Ive got any real enhancements I can say are caused by Selank. But it is a damn good anxiolytic!

What types of anxiety did you have, and can you elaborate on when it was damn good in a particular situation where anxiety normally would have kicked in bad?

[chrono]

Ah, so it probably would be ideal to store it at lower temperatures, if possible, with little moisture and atmosphere. Maybe one of those wine preserver cans with Ar/N/CO2 would be a reasonable approximation for home storage. Pre-sealing with a loose cap and silica gel in a larger air-tight container, and vacuum sealing, are other approaches that could be done at home with some degree of effectiveness. I'm still curious as to whether methylparaben has an actual stabilizing effect on peptides, or if it's simply there to inhibit microorganisms.

I think somethingtoxic confirmed that Biomatik ships to private parties.

Been reading a lot around Agomelatine Psychonauts the past few weeks. Saw some of your good posts there. Thorsten made a good thread here about his Afobazol experience, but after reading that it's a putative MAOI-A I decided I probably shouldn't take it (I'm on tramadol, a weak SNRI and downstream SSRI). Ago and tianeptine both sound good, but I really want something that doesn't need such a long timeline to begin working. Probably just misplaced preference due to my own bad SSRI experiences. But it's one of the reason's I'm very attracted to selank.

Edited by chrono, 30 April 2010 - 08:01 PM.

[Negcreep]

Ah, so it probably would be ideal to store it at lower temperatures, if possible, with little moisture and atmosphere. Maybe one of those wine preserver cans with Ar/N/CO2 would be a reasonable approximation for home storage. Pre-sealing with a loose cap and silica gel in a larger air-tight container, and vacuum sealing, are other approaches that could be done at home with some degree of effectiveness. I'm still curious as to whether methylparaben has an actual stabilizing effect on peptides, or if it's simply there to inhibit microorganisms.

I think somethingtoxic confirmed that Biomatik ships to private parties.

Been reading a lot around Agomelatine Psychonauts the past few weeks. Saw some of your good posts there. Thorsten made a good thread here about his Afobazol experience, but after reading that it's a putative MAOI-A I decided I probably shouldn't take it (I'm on tramadol, a weak SNRI and downstream SSRI). Ago and tianeptine both sound good, but I really want something that doesn't need such a long timeline to begin working. Probably just misplaced preference due to my own bad SSRI experiences. But it's one of the reason's I'm very attracted to selank.

Yeah my lyophilzed peptide is stored at -80oC with a desiccant sachet. Should be good enough. That's how I would store any other peptide drug I have used at work anyway.

Would be cool if Biomatik come through for us....although I'm in the UK so according to the website I have to use Biomatik Canada .....but months away for me now as I should be well supplied into next year. Its also going to be good to see if others have the same success as me. When I stopped taking my antidepressant recently I was waiting thinking a relapse of anxiety/panic attacks was due any week but it never came and here I am 3 months off them and feeling fine. If it turned out to be some freak occurance Id be very surprised. I haven't been able to control my anxiety without medication for about 7 years now.

I'm glad we have some people here with more knowledge of peptide chemisty and synthesis here. Most of what I know has been learnt in the past 6 months as I researched how to make this stuff. There was always a thought in the back of my mind that maybe some of the incomplete peptide chains or reagents used in manufacture could end up in there and cause me problems. I weighed up the risks and thought it highly unlikely and it was worth the risk for the potential gain. Always good to have these things confirmed

So another thing I've been thinking about. Now that Im feeling better....what happens if I want to travel somewhere abroad? Like via an airplane. Customs can be a pain in the arse. Is it going to be possible to take a small unmarked nasal spray on a plane with me? A friend of in google groups said you can get a form from a pharmacy for non prescription medication but I dont know where I stand with something like this. It's a minor thing....id rather be well than travel but I just thought its a situation that might come up soon. Any thoughts on this?

Glad you like Agomelatine psyconauts Chrono.....made some good friends there. They are a knowledgeable lot and the Ukrainian source is reliable.

Edited by Negcreep, 30 April 2010 - 10:54 PM.

[chrono]

So another thing I've been thinking about. Now that Im feeling better....what happens if I want to travel somewhere abroad? Like via an airplane. Customs can be a pain in the arse. Is it going to be possible to take a small unmarked nasal spray on a plane with me? A friend of in google groups said you can get a form from a pharmacy for non prescription medication but I dont know where I stand with something like this. It's a minor thing....id rather be well than travel but I just thought its a situation that might come up soon. Any thoughts on this?

I think trying to fill out a form with information about a novel Russian peptide drug you mix for intranasal administration yourself is not a good idea. How about a well-cleaned, OTC bottle? Avoid any confusion. An eye dropper would probably provide more consistent drop sizes than a cheap spray bottle, though.

[Guacamolium]

If you have to declare an intranasal spray, declare it as selank. Keep it simple.

I've been going about this peptide differently than you two it seems. These lyophilyzed powders in vials somehow make it to nasal sprays containers? Very great on the options but I'd rather just reconstitute and SubQ it. Alternately, I think I might want it in a cologne spray bottle. I guess I should try before I buy, but I have a "picture" of opportunity with this one...

If we can get a group buy in with biomatek - which is a more than fair price. Do you think it's possible to come up with the funds? My intentions hgave shifted but for you guys, this might be your panacea - as well as others.

[chrono]

I've been going about this peptide differently than you two it seems. These lyophilyzed powders in vials somehow make it to nasal sprays containers? Very great on the options but I'd rather just reconstitute and SubQ it.

It was patented for intranasal application, and went through clinical trials that way (see the link neg posted). Skin popping something 3x a day seems like a lot more trouble, to me. Especially when the most reliable dosage info is for nasal spray, and it should be just as effective.

I certainly don't have any money right now, and would want to test it out before I spent many hundreds of dollars on it. Tenoten is probably higher on my list right now, because I could get a few months' worth for like $30.

A great article was posted at the beginning of that other thread, giving a history and overview of Selank: To Drip Into His Nose Fearlessness (I love the title translation). Well worth reading.

Edited by chrono, 01 May 2010 - 02:28 AM.

[KeNsKuNkIn!!]

How does Selank compare to Semax?

[chrono]

My impression from the literature and the few experiences I've read is that selank is more primarily anxiolytic, while semax is more capable of influencing neurotrophic factors and perhaps(?) more subjectively nootropic.

Edited by chrono, 01 May 2010 - 11:26 PM.

[Guacamolium]

My impression from the literature and the few experiences I've read is that selank is more primarily anxiolytic, while semax is more capable of influencing neurotrophic factors and perhaps(?) more subjectively nootropic.

I agree with chrono.


Semax was derived in the early eighties as a factor in NGF and BDNF neurotrophic abundance. Anxiety at that point became secondary to Selank - which is its own thing and hadn't been developed yet. Haven't tried either, but I've been into nootropics since 97' and you seem to be right that selank serves anxiolytic purposes and semax simply serves neurogenic purposes regardless of anxiety.

[KeNsKuNkIn!!]

What would happen if one were to combine the two peptides?

[Negcreep]

Semax didnt do much for me except give me a headache. I wasnt able to take it for longer than a week though, due to the cost of the product. Would be much cheaper to get it synthesised. It certainly didnt feel like the aniracetam I've tried a few times. Probably not worth the cost.

Selank however really does seem to work very well for what it was designed to do, reducing anxiety.

I dont think there would be any issue with combining the 2 peptides together. Selank/semax dont have any interactions.

[Negcreep]

Cant say I've noticed any cognitive enhancement really. Before I started Selank I felt like shit. Now I feel a lot less like shit ....my brain works better as a result. Its hard to say if Ive got any real enhancements I can say are caused by Selank. But it is a damn good anxiolytic!

What types of anxiety did you have, and can you elaborate on when it was damn good in a particular situation where anxiety normally would have kicked in bad?

I have Generalised Anxiety Disorder (GAD) so low grade anxiety symptoms all the time for me. Things would get worse in social situations, travelling via bus/train etc, lecture theaters, and cinema. Sometimes even progressing to panic attacks. I would have to down a few pints of beer to counter this (meaning I was drunk most of the time). I feel much better in these situations now. Much like I did several years ago on citalopram...but without the sexual and emotional side effects. I dont drink at all anymore, but this is mainly due to the fact I've developed gastritis from the SSRI use. Still not healed after 2 1/2 months off the AD's but at least the anxiety is under control with Selank.

[stillwater]

Curious if anyone else has had success in acquiring Selank and if so what your results have been?

[stillwater]

Well I got it down to 20 bucks with 100 of 95 percent 50mg vials, but I seriously doubt there are anywhere near 100 of you guys or enough people with multiple purchases to make a group buy of that magnitude probable, so, I tried.

I for one would be into purchasing $200 of that (500mg).

[Negcreep]

So did anyone else follow through with this and manage to order themselves some Selank?

[chrono]

So did anyone else follow through with this and manage to order themselves some Selank?

Not yet. Money's going to be tight this summer, and there are a few things above this on my list that will (probably) benefit me for a much lower price.

What about you, Neg, still enjoying it? Have you noticed any tolerance/lessening of effects?

[yowza]

So did anyone else follow through with this and manage to order themselves some Selank?

I sure didn't.

[Negcreep]

Yeah still doing well on Selank alone. I know of 2 others who managed to get hold of it so perhaps we will hear from them soon as well.

[stillwater]

I've started my trial on Selank and will post my assessment in a couple of weeks. But just thought I'd mention that for my first batch I mixed the suggested 20mg methyl paraben with bacteriostatic water (around 8-10 ml) and I think it's proved to be a bit of a mistake as snorting this mixture is a bit on the painful side, haha. I'll just stick with methyl paraben for the next batch. Just an fyi for those contemplating using bact. water.

[chrono]

I've never used bacteriostatic water. Does it hurt in the nose by itself?

[stillwater]

I guess I can't say for sure it's the alcohol alone and not the methyl paraben, but after a couple of sprays it feels and smells like I've just snorted a line of Finlandia. Not crazy painful but enough to make your eyes water.

It's probably overboard on my part to combine the two anyway, the methyl paraben was cheap and should do fine on it's own.

[Guacamolium]

I've never used bacteriostatic water. Does it hurt in the nose by itself?

Not at all. (I actually just tried, lol) I'm thinking of trying both SEMAX and Selank simultaneously since I get a discount if I order both. Not sure at this point but I want to.

Edited by somethingtoxic, 20 July 2010 - 12:15 AM.