9 replies to this topic

[treonsverdery]

Reading trends n pharmacological sciences http://www.ncbi.nlm....Pubmed_RVDocSum I read that 5 minutes of purposed ischemia protected lab mammals from 40 minutes of ischemia as regard to cardiovascular harm
Further the more plausible 3 minutes of ischemia reduced premature venticular actions from 1300 to 200

Ischemia is absence of oxygen to tissue
The effect only lasts an hour or two though

I can imagine having cardiopatients hold their breath for two or three minutes each am (am is when most myocardial infarction events occur) to reduce risks from myocardial infarction
It would be nifty if there were a computer mediated nitrous inhaler that made this pleasant references state that inhaled anesthetics have the beneficial effect

Here is a review article on how holding your breath may minimize risk from stroke http://www.ncbi.nlm....Pubmed_RVDocSum

Note that I say holding ones breath is similar to brief risk reducing ischemia The articles use actual ischemia

Edited by treonsverdery, 19 September 2009 - 12:39 AM.

[RighteousReason]

Reading trends n pharmacological sciences http://www.ncbi.nlm....Pubmed_RVDocSum I read that 5 minutes of purposed ischemia protected lab mammals from 40 minutes of ischemia as regard to cardiovascular harm
Further the more plausible 3 minutes of ischemia reduced premature venticular actions from 1300 to 200

Ischemia is absence of oxygen to tissue
The effect only lasts an hour or two though

I can imagine having cardiopatients hold their breath for two or three minutes each am (am is when most myocardial infarction events occur) to reduce risks from myocardial infarction
It would be nifty if there were a computer mediated nitrous inhaler that made this pleasant references state that inhaled anesthetics have the beneficial effect

Here is a review article on how holding your breath may minimize risk from stroke http://www.ncbi.nlm....Pubmed_RVDocSum

Note that I say holding ones breath is similar to brief risk reducing ischemia The articles use actual ischemia

That's really interesting. Does anyone know of other studies about holding one's breath?

[niner]

Yeah, this is a pretty interesting paper. Here's an example of some preconditioning methods from table 1

One of the earliest examples of pharmacological preconditioning was the mild inhibition of the respiratory chain with nitropropionic acid or acetylsalicylic acid,35-38 which induced cellular changes such as those seen with hypoxia. Another relevant example is the use of the iron chelator desferrioxamine,39 which induces nuclear translocation of the transcription factor hypoxia-inducible factor 1, with consequent expression of a plethora of hypoxia-inducible genes, including erythropoietin, vascular endothelial growth factor, and hexokinase

[rwac]

Here are some more compounds that may have the same effect.

Suppression of hypoxia-induced HIF-1α and of angiogenesis in endothelial cells by myo-inositol trispyrophosphate-treated erythrocytes

http://www.pubmedcen...i?artid=1622864


Anti-angiogenic activity of inositol hexaphosphate (IP6)

http://carcin.oxford...full/25/11/2115

A significant anticancer activity of the naturally occurring carbohydrate inositol hexaphosphate (IP₆) has been reported against numerous cancer models. Since tumors require angiogenesis for growth and metastasis, we hypothesize that IP₆ reduces tumor growth by inhibiting angiogenesis. Because angiogenesis depends on the interaction between endothelial and tumor cells, we investigated the effect of IP₆ on both. IP₆ inhibited the proliferation and induced the differentiation of endothelial cells in vitro; the growth of bovine aortic endothelial cells (BAECs) evaluated by MTT proliferation assay was inhibited in a dose-dependent manner (IC₅₀ = 0.74 mM). The combination of IP₆ and vasostatin, a calreticulin fragment with anti-angiogenic activity, was synergistically superior in growth inhibition than either compound. IP₆ inhibited human umbilical vein endothelial cell (HUVEC) tube formation (in vitro capillary differentiation) on a reconstituted extracellular matrix, Matrigel, and disrupted pre-formed tubes. IP₆ significantly reduced basic fibroblast growth factor (bFGF)-induced vessel formation (P < 0.01) in vivo in Matrigel plug assay. Exposure of HepG2, a human hepatoma cell line, to IP₆ for 8 h, resulted in a dose-dependent decrease in the mRNA levels of vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF), as assessed by RT–PCR. IP₆ treatment of HepG2 cells for 24 h also significantly reduced the VEGF protein levels in conditioned medium, in a concentration-dependent manner (P = 0.012). Thus, IP6 has an inhibitory effect on induced angiogenesis.

Edited by rwac, 19 September 2009 - 05:21 AM.

[Lufega]

Valsalva Maneuver

[bacopa]

how does one hold one's breath for 3 minutes? Lol, I can do maybe a minute, which I hear is average.

[Dmitri]

It protects our hearts but can it damage our brains? It's never good to deprive your brain of oxygen or is 3 minutes not sufficient enough time to cause damage?

[StrangeAeons]

not quite enough. It's the ~4-5 minute mark where hypoxia causes brain damage. Obviously this will all be heavily affected by how good your cardiac reserves and vascular health are; I wouldn't recommend anybody with a heart condition or significant plaque deposits do this, even without taking Valsalva/vagal tone into account.

People can condition themselves to last longer than a minute without breathing, i.e. swimmers and divers. I'm not sure how much of this is physiological adaptation and how much is just psychological conditioning to not panic.

[kismet]

Note that I say holding ones breath is similar to brief risk reducing ischemia The articles use actual ischemia

I can't find the word 'breath' in the cited review. And my understanding was that once ischemia sets in you immediately faint; while holding one's breath does not cause real ischemia. And I don't see any in vivo evidence in this thread that mild ischemia does anything. There's a world of difference between 3 minutes of real ischemia and holding one's breath for 3 minutes. So far I have to conclude that holding one's breath won't do anything. Are you sure any of those articles mentions the mild variation (possibly achievable by holding your breath) and provides in vivo evidence to back up such a claim?

People can condition themselves to last longer than a minute without breathing, i.e. swimmers and divers. I'm not sure how much of this is physiological adaptation and how much is just psychological conditioning to not panic.

Both and you don't need to be either to last longer than 60 seconds. You can "cheat" easily by reducing blood levels of CO2 via hyperventilation (the amount of CO2 usually triggers breathing), but then you can go until you run out of oxygen, may faint and die if you're unlucky. Aerobic training obviously prevents (postpones) the latter.

Edited by kismet, 20 September 2009 - 12:52 PM.

[treonsverdery]

Note that I say holding ones breath is similar to brief risk reducing ischemia The articles use actual ischemia

I think human tests of a computer mediated nitrous item could be beneficial The article http://www.pubmedcen...bmedid=19296922 says that


Preconditioning can protect the brain either almost immediately after stimulation (known as early, rapid, or classical preconditioning) or after a delay of 1 to 3 days to induce protein-synthesis-dependent protection (delayed preconditioning). Most stimuli can cause both early and delayed preconditioning, and most, but not all, stimuli leave an unprotected time window between early and delayed preconditioning.24 Irrespective of the rapidity of onset, protection by preconditioning usually never lasts more than a few days. Of note, a recent study showed that a series of repetitive hypoxic preconditioning stimuli can induce neuroprotection in the retina that last many weeks. Such long-term tolerance might be associated with neuronal plasticity, including long-term potentiation, or long-lasting cellular memory associated with immune tolerance.48
Rapid preconditioning is appealing practically and clinically because this technique can be applied therapeutically in the same setting as procedures with high risks of complication, such as cardiac or brain surgery. Most of the experimental and clinical research in cardiology has thus focused on early preconditioning. Conversely, because protection conferred by delayed preconditioning seems to be more robust for the brain than that conferred early, delayed preconditioning has received more attention in neurology. However, although there are effective protocols for early preconditioning for the brain, there are few formal comparisons of early and delayed procedures for neuroprotection


Various inhalational anaesthetics used in human beings (eg, sevoflurane) induce preconditioning and tolerance against brain ischaemia and act as brain protectants after ischaemia in preclinical experiments.

then there is ischemia on different tissues

a randomised controlled trial, patients who receive ischaemic preconditioning have a thigh cuff inflated on one leg until flow in the pedal arteries stops.189 After 5 min the cuffis moved to the opposite thigh. The cycle is repeated so that each leg has two 5-min periods of ischaemia followed by 5 min of reperfusion

Edited by treonsverdery, 20 September 2009 - 07:50 PM.