67 replies to this topic

[somec]

There are a number of supplement companies claiming better bioavailability in their products over competitors. I noticed a couple of newer approaches to increasing bioavailability and am curious if anyone has any insight to which one is the most effective.

1. Thorne Research - Meriva (Curcumin Phytosome) - http://www.easyhealt...i...82&click=71

2. AOR - CUReCUMIN (Nano-Emulsified Curcumin) - http://www.aor.ca/ht...ucts.php?id=193

3. LEF - Super Bio-Curcumin (25:1 extract root w/ oils of turmeric rhizome) - http://www.lef.org/V...o-Curcumin.html

I appreciate the help :-)

[lynx]

There are a number of supplement companies claiming better bioavailability in their products over competitors. I noticed a couple of newer approaches to increasing bioavailability and am curious if anyone has any insight to which one is the most effective.

1. Thorne Research - Meriva (Curcumin Phytosome) - http://www.easyhealt...i...82&click=71

2. AOR - CUReCUMIN (Nano-Emulsified Curcumin) - http://www.aor.ca/ht...ucts.php?id=193

3. LEF - Super Bio-Curcumin (25:1 extract root w/ oils of turmeric rhizome) - http://www.lef.org/V...o-Curcumin.html

I appreciate the help :-)

I believe that the LEF product is the only one with real research behind it. check out the studiesBioCurcumin

[ajnast4r]

i think that a lot of turmerics anti-inflammatory properties may be due to chemicals other than curcumin or perhaps interactions between curcumin and other chemicals. in my experience its not necessary to achieve huge serum levels of curcumin to have a pronounced effect on inflammation. i used a full-spectrum (co2 extraction + hydroethanolic extraction) turmeric from gaia herbs that only contains 36mg curcumin but still had very pronounced effects on inflammation for me.

[VespeneGas]

Once a week, or as needed for joint pain, I just mix the contents of one of those NOW curcumin pills, a teaspoon of turmeric, and a quarter teaspoon of black pepper into a double shot of olive oil.

[youandme]

Once a week, or as needed for joint pain, I just mix the contents of one of those NOW curcumin pills, a teaspoon of turmeric, and a quarter teaspoon of black pepper into a double shot of olive oil.

Hi Vespene

Is this for RA joint pain ?...do you really notice the effect ? if you miss a shot..do you pay for it ?

Cheers

[somec]

thanks for the replies everyone. what im gathering from your responses is that it is recommended to take a supplement that incorporates all of the natural occuring components of curcumin. is this suggested only whe pertaining to the anti-inflammatory effects of curcumin or does this recommedation also apply to someone seeking its immune modulating/neuroprotective/anti-depressant benefits as well? thanks for the input again

[hamishm00]

I vouch for the LEF super bio circumin brand

[somec]

Is anyone certain if getting Curcumin to cross the blood brain barrier (BBB) requires some form of adjunct to curcumin, or does curcumin cross in it's original state? I would think that in order to acquire benefits outside of reduced inflammation, it would have to cross the BBB. Correct me if i'm wrong

[pycnogenol]

This is the brand I take:

Bluebonnet Nutrition, Herbals, Turmeric Root Extract, 120 Vcaps

http://www.iherb.com...caps/11413?at=0

I'll probably try out the LEF brand when I run out of my Bluebonnet Nutrition supply.

[Blue]

LEF writes that "Studies show that one 400 mg capsule a day of this turmeric compound can provide curcumin blood levels equal to ingesting 2,500–2,800 mg of commercial curcumin supplements."

Unfortunately higher doses than this does not seem to reach cancer outside the intestine. " Curcumin and its metabolites could not be detected in plasma at doses lower than 3.6 g/day... ...., when colorectal cancer patients took 3.6 g/d of curcumin orally for seven days prior to surgery, curcumin was detected in malignant and normal colorectal tissue (10). In contrast, curcumin was not detected in the liver tissue of patients with liver metastases of colorectal cancer after the same oral dose of curcumin (11), suggesting that oral curcumin administration may not effectively deliver curcumin to tissues outside the gastrointestinal tract."
http://lpi.oregonsta...icals/curcumin/

Of course there are several major cancers in the intestine which curcumin can affect. Also it may affect the whole body by influencing hormones and toxins going out from the intestine to the rest of the body. But I would not count on it affecting cancers outside the intestine or the brain itself.

[ppp]

Is anyone certain if getting Curcumin to cross the blood brain barrier (BBB) requires some form of adjunct to curcumin, or does curcumin cross in it's original state? I would think that in order to acquire benefits outside of reduced inflammation, it would have to cross the BBB. Correct me if i'm wrong

You might want to look at the effects of the form of curcumin called LongVida in Alzheimers. It definitely crosses the BBB and has higher bioavailability than other formulations (it also costs more...). Take a look at the following paper:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....21/?tool=pubmed

LongVida is the name of the curcumin formulation produced by Verdure Sciences, mentioned towards the end of the paper.

[Blue]

Is anyone certain if getting Curcumin to cross the blood brain barrier (BBB) requires some form of adjunct to curcumin, or does curcumin cross in it's original state? I would think that in order to acquire benefits outside of reduced inflammation, it would have to cross the BBB. Correct me if i'm wrong

You might want to look at the effects of the form of curcumin called LongVida in Alzheimers. It definitely crosses the BBB and has higher bioavailability than other formulations (it also costs more...). Take a look at the following paper:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....21/?tool=pubmed

LongVida is the name of the curcumin formulation produced by Verdure Sciences, mentioned towards the end of the paper.

That is a mouse study. You mean this?

"However, in humans high oral dosing fails to achieve detectable plasma levels (Lao et al., 2006). The reported failure to achieve these modest target levels in humans with oral supplements predicts limited success in translating to the clinic. In our studies, increasing curcumin solubility with phosphatidyl choline, olive oil, or stearic acid increases plasma and brain levels compared with administering unformulated curcumin powder. For example, oral gavage of an optimized, lipidated curcumin formulation (Verdure Sciences, Noblesville, IN; www.verduresciences.com) resulted in 11-fold higher levels of curcumin in plasma and 4-fold higher levels in brain compared with equal doses of curcumin powder or curcumin-piperine extracts. A 5-mg curcumin dose delivered by acute gavage in this lipid rich formulation (n = 5) resulted in 2.15 ± 0.744 µM mouse brain curcumin levels after 3 h. After 2 weeks of lipidated formulation at 500 ppm curcumin in chow (n = 5), we observed 5.79 ± 1.22 µM mouse brain curcumin, well above the 1 to 2 µM range of EC₅₀ concentrations for the inhibition of iNOS, IL-1β, PGE₂, and isoprostanes. This suggests oral delivery can achieve our target tissue levels. Finally, the traditional method of dissolving turmeric in fat during cooking is likely an effective method to improve absorption, and it could play a role in India's low incidence and prevalence of Alzheimer's disease (Lim et al., 2001 and references therein)."

Again only mouse studies. Where are the human studies? At the very least one would want to see a preparation of curcumin causing detectable levels in human blood and non-brain tissues before talking about the brain.

Edited by Blue, 17 October 2009 - 08:27 PM.

[nameless]

I think they did a human bioavailablity study on Longvida, but are still writing up the manuscript (so maybe contact Verdue for more info, if interested). It's being used in some ongoing studies too.

A couple of little things worry me about the super-absorbable curcumins... I believe it increased mouse lung tumors in one study. It doesn't mean it'd have the same effect in people, but we can't use population studies (tumeric), as absorption will be much different in comparison. If a person has Alzheimer's, etc. the reward would outweigh any potential risk though.

If anyone is interested in Longvida, they will provide small sample packs to try. I have a packet of some pills they sent me I am still considering taking... or not taking.

Edited by nameless, 17 October 2009 - 09:10 PM.

[ortcloud]

The two high absorbable curcumins that you can add to the list are

curamed which uses the bio-curcumin but mixed in a phospholipid mix

http://www.europharmausa.com/20296.htm

curcumin in Solid-lipid nanospheres

http://www.life-enha...asp?ID=619#desc

I think they did a human bioavailablity study on Longvida, but are still writing up the manuscript (so maybe contact Verdue for more info, if interested). It's being used in some ongoing studies too.

A couple of little things worry me about the super-absorbable curcumins... I believe it increased mouse lung tumors in one study. It doesn't mean it'd have the same effect in people, but we can't use population studies (tumeric), as absorption will be much different in comparison. If a person has Alzheimer's, etc. the reward would outweigh any potential risk though.

If anyone is interested in Longvida, they will provide small sample packs to try. I have a packet of some pills they sent me I am still considering taking... or not taking.

Edited by ortcloud, 18 October 2009 - 02:19 AM.

[ppp]

The two high absorbable curcumins that you can add to the list are

curamed which uses the bio-curcumin but mixed in a phospholipid mix

http://www.europharmausa.com/20296.htm

curcumin in Solid-lipid nanospheres

http://www.life-enha...asp?ID=619#desc

These look interesting, but there's nothing backing up the claims that I can find. It's a shame because they certainly look worth investigating...

[ppp]

Again only mouse studies. Where are the human studies? At the very least one would want to see a preparation of curcumin causing detectable levels in human blood and non-brain tissues before talking about the brain.

The team that did that mouse study are involved in a human clinical trial of LongVida curcumin in Alzheimers. and there's also a Phase I trial of it in osteosarcoma (bone cancer). Hopefully we'll see some published data soon.

[Blue]

The brand that LEF reselling, BCM 95, also has some ongoing clinical studies and some human bioavailability studies. There bioavailability studies find about 5-7 times stronger absorption as compared to normal curcumin. As stated previously a 400 mg capsule of BCM 95 curcumin, if this is correct, is unlikely to has an effect by BCM 95 curcumin itself outside the intestine.

For the rheumatoid arthritis study they are using 500mgx2 or 500mgx3. For the study with patients with oral premalignant lesions/cervical cancer they are using 3.6g/day.
http://www.bcm95.com/

Edited by Blue, 18 October 2009 - 08:26 PM.

[neogenic]

Isn't the LEF curcumin piperine/bioperine blended? Why would one want to use that given its risks in not only potentially affecting other medications/supplements by reducing and/or increasing their bioavailability (compounds vary...its not blanketly increased absorption...its actually about 50/50, which make me confused about why these claims continue and its added to so many supplements)...

BUT...Also...


Its mechanism is inhibition of the CYP enzymes that are involved in detoxification, a gatekeeper if you will. Shutting that off is not smart at all and would increase exposure to carcinogens, etc.

Unless they've changed the formulation, the LEF one is not one I would use. I would never use a bioperine based product, especially in some of these products that have 20 ingredients...its baffling.

[Blue]

Isn't the LEF curcumin piperine/bioperine blended? Why would one want to use that given its risks in not only potentially affecting other medications/supplements by reducing and/or increasing their bioavailability (compounds vary...its not blanketly increased absorption...its actually about 50/50, which make me confused about why these claims continue and its added to so many supplements)...

BUT...Also...


Its mechanism is inhibition of the CYP enzymes that are involved in detoxification, a gatekeeper if you will. Shutting that off is not smart at all and would increase exposure to carcinogens, etc.

Unless they've changed the formulation, the LEF one is not one I would use. I would never use a bioperine based product, especially in some of these products that have 20 ingredients...its baffling.

LEF's variant does not have piperine .

Regardless, curcumin itself looks to be a greater inhibitor than piperine which is one its problems:

"Curcuminoids inhibit multiple human cytochromes P450 (CYP), UDP-glucuronosyltransferase (UGT), and sulfotransferase (SULT) enzymes, while piperine is a relatively selective CYP3A4 inhibitor"
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2574793/

Edited by Blue, 20 October 2009 - 08:44 PM.

[neogenic]

Isn't the LEF curcumin piperine/bioperine blended? Why would one want to use that given its risks in not only potentially affecting other medications/supplements by reducing and/or increasing their bioavailability (compounds vary...its not blanketly increased absorption...its actually about 50/50, which make me confused about why these claims continue and its added to so many supplements)...

BUT...Also...


Its mechanism is inhibition of the CYP enzymes that are involved in detoxification, a gatekeeper if you will. Shutting that off is not smart at all and would increase exposure to carcinogens, etc.

Unless they've changed the formulation, the LEF one is not one I would use. I would never use a bioperine based product, especially in some of these products that have 20 ingredients...its baffling.

LEF's variant does not have piperine .

Regardless, curcumin itself looks to be a greater inhibitor than piperine which is one its problems:

"Curcuminoids inhibit multiple human cytochromes P450 (CYP), UDP-glucuronosyltransferase (UGT), and sulfotransferase (SULT) enzymes, while piperine is a relatively selective CYP3A4 inhibitor"

Holy crap! That is news to me...and downright shocking.
[url=""]

[somec]

did anyone have any info on the efficacy of the phytosome approach? i haven't heard of that until just recently and i can't find any studies showing its effectiveness.

[neogenic]

Any thoughts on what was mentioned with curcumin being more potent that piperine/bioperine for CYP inhibition/detoxification? That's kind of scary.

[FunkOdyssey]

My position here is that its probably not wise to exceed a traditional dosage of turmeric (3-5 grams daily providing something in the vicinity of 100-200mg curcumin) unless you have serious health issues where the risk/benefit ratio warrants it. You just don't know what is going to happen long-term and curcumin gets its fingers into a million different aspects of your biochemistry / gene expression etc.

If you want the epidemiologically suggested benefits for cancer and alzheimer's prevention and want to replicate a "normal" Indian dose I would take something like this:

http://www.iherb.com...Caps/13450?at=0

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 23 October 2009 - 06:08 PM.

[somec]

Thanks for your suggestion Funky. Do you currently take this brand of curcumin supplement?

[FunkOdyssey]

No, I'm not taking any right now.

[ajnast4r]

My position here is that its probably not wise to exceed a traditional dosage of turmeric (3-5 grams daily providing something in the vicinity of 100-200mg curcumin) unless you have serious health issues where the risk/benefit ratio warrants it. You just don't know what is going to happen long-term and curcumin gets its fingers into a million different aspects of your biochemistry / gene expression etc.

If you want the epidemiologically suggested benefits for cancer and alzheimer's prevention and want to replicate a "normal" Indian dose I would take something like this:

http://www.iherb.com...Caps/13450?at=0

agreed

[neogenic]

My position here is that its probably not wise to exceed a traditional dosage of turmeric (3-5 grams daily providing something in the vicinity of 100-200mg curcumin) unless you have serious health issues where the risk/benefit ratio warrants it. You just don't know what is going to happen long-term and curcumin gets its fingers into a million different aspects of your biochemistry / gene expression etc.

If you want the epidemiologically suggested benefits for cancer and alzheimer's prevention and want to replicate a "normal" Indian dose I would take something like this:

http://www.iherb.com...Caps/13450?at=0

Well stated, but they also eat, drink, and live cleaner than we do too.

[lynx]

Well stated, but they also eat, drink, and live cleaner than we do too.

First time I've ever seen anyone refer to India or Indians as clean.

[ajnast4r]

Well stated, but they also eat, drink, and live cleaner than we do too.

First time I've ever seen anyone refer to India or Indians as clean.

lol yea... i dont think they live cleaner than us, not by a long shot

[somec]

Funky, What is the primary reason that you do not supplement with curcumin? Do you know if taking the supplement you recommended on a regular basis has the potential to make you smell like curry? I'm still in the process of deciding if i should take it or not.
Also, you seem very informed so if you don't mind me asking, can you give me an opinion on my current supplement intake? it would be appreciated

Gerenova - R-Lipoic Acid (100mg capsule) - one in the morning and one at night
Olivus - Olive Leaf Extract 20% Oleuropein (500mg capsule) - once a day with lunch
Nature's Science - Once Daily Multivitamin - one a day with breakfast
Country Life - Vitamin D3 (1,000UI capsule) - one a day with breakfast
Nature's Bounty - Omega 3 + 6 (2 capsules = 2,000mg of fish oil) - one serving with breakfast

I also average about 3 cups of green or white tea a day

Edited by somec, 23 October 2009 - 11:36 PM.