20 replies to this topic

[shazam]

I recently found out that on a few sites, source naturals sells a 120 bottle of 10mgs of bioperine for pretty cheap. I thought it would be an interesting addition to my supplement regime, increasing the absorption of several supplements for relatively cheap (1.17 a month a 1 tab a day). Anybody here have any thoughts on bioperine? I read that it may help these:

Bioperine® may enhance the absorption of the following nutrients (including but not limited to):

* Herbal extracts: Curcumin, Boswellia, Serrata, Ashwagandha, Ginkgo Biloba, and Capsaicin
* Water-soluble vitamins: Vitamin B1, Vitamin B2, Niacinamide, Vitamin B6, Vitamin B12, Folic acid and Vitamin C
* Fat-soluble vitamins: Vitamin A, Vitamin D, Vitamin E, and Vitamin K
* Antioxidants: Vitamin A, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, alpha-carotene, beta-carotene, beta-cryptoxanthin, lycopene, lutein/zeaxanthin, pine bark bioflavonoids complex, germanium, selenium and zinc
* Amino acids: Lysine, Isoleucine, Leucine, Threonine, Valine, Tryptophan, Phenylalanine, and Methionine
* Minerals: Calcium, Iron, Zinc, Vanadium, Selenium, Chromium, Iodine, Potassium, Manganese, Copper and Magnesium

So I figured I'd split one between or take 2 with my fat solubles and my minerals. Anyone else have anything to say about bioperine (piperine)?

[apache]

I recently found out that on a few sites, source naturals sells a 120 bottle of 10mgs of bioperine for pretty cheap. I thought it would be an interesting addition to my supplement regime, increasing the absorption of several supplements for relatively cheap (1.17 a month a 1 tab a day). Anybody here have any thoughts on bioperine? I read that it may help these:

Bioperine® may enhance the absorption of the following nutrients (including but not limited to):

* Herbal extracts: Curcumin, Boswellia, Serrata, Ashwagandha, Ginkgo Biloba, and Capsaicin
* Water-soluble vitamins: Vitamin B1, Vitamin B2, Niacinamide, Vitamin B6, Vitamin B12, Folic acid and Vitamin C
* Fat-soluble vitamins: Vitamin A, Vitamin D, Vitamin E, and Vitamin K
* Antioxidants: Vitamin A, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, alpha-carotene, beta-carotene, beta-cryptoxanthin, lycopene, lutein/zeaxanthin, pine bark bioflavonoids complex, germanium, selenium and zinc
* Amino acids: Lysine, Isoleucine, Leucine, Threonine, Valine, Tryptophan, Phenylalanine, and Methionine
* Minerals: Calcium, Iron, Zinc, Vanadium, Selenium, Chromium, Iodine, Potassium, Manganese, Copper and Magnesium

So I figured I'd split one between or take 2 with my fat solubles and my minerals. Anyone else have anything to say about bioperine (piperine)?

Why not save money and just use black pepper? Black pepper has something like 5-10% piperines so you can figure out the dosage you need.

[niner]

Bioperine® may enhance the absorption of the following nutrients (including but not limited to):
* Herbal extracts: Curcumin, Boswellia, Serrata, Ashwagandha, Ginkgo Biloba, and Capsaicin
* Water-soluble vitamins: Vitamin B1, Vitamin B2, Niacinamide, Vitamin B6, Vitamin B12, Folic acid and Vitamin C
* Fat-soluble vitamins: Vitamin A, Vitamin D, Vitamin E, and Vitamin K
* Antioxidants: Vitamin A, Vitamin C, Vitamin E, alpha-carotene, beta-carotene, beta-cryptoxanthin, lycopene, lutein/zeaxanthin, pine bark bioflavonoids complex, germanium, selenium and zinc
* Amino acids: Lysine, Isoleucine, Leucine, Threonine, Valine, Tryptophan, Phenylalanine, and Methionine
* Minerals: Calcium, Iron, Zinc, Vanadium, Selenium, Chromium, Iodine, Potassium, Manganese, Copper and Magnesium

So I figured I'd split one between or take 2 with my fat solubles and my minerals. Anyone else have anything to say about bioperine (piperine)?

Piperine does appear to help various substances get in. The question is, what else is it helping to get in that maybe you don't want to have in? Our bodies evolved to keep toxins and other foreign compounds on the outside, and now we have a way to subvert that. Is it a good idea? A lot of the compounds on the above list, most of them, in fact, are not things that typically need a lot of help getting in. I'd recommend taking the fat-soluble vitamins with... fat. As for the rest of them, unless you are trying to achieve a particular biochemical effect that you can't get without some sort of absorption enhancement method, I wouldn't use piperine.

[shazam]

I've read that because your body has to extract the piperine from black pepper before it can use it in the same manner, it is not quite as effective as just straight bioperine.

Also, to the other poster, yeah, taking FAT soluble vitamins with FAT is kinda implied. But you make good points otherwise. I'm not sure what else it would increase the absorption is, but it does make an interesting case for not splurging on exotic forms of vitamins and instead using bioperine.

[ajnast4r]

bioperine is a fairly potent cyp450 inhibitor...not something you want to be doing every day. bioperine may help achieve higher serum concentrations of certain things but thats not necessarily a good thing.

[niner]

Also, to the other poster, yeah, taking FAT soluble vitamins with FAT is kinda implied.

You'd be surprised how many people take fat soluble vitamins without enough fat to absorb them. It's less important if they are already dissolved in oil as part of their formulation.

But you make good points otherwise. I'm not sure what else it would increase the absorption is, but it does make an interesting case for not splurging on exotic forms of vitamins and instead using bioperine.

It does? I was trying to make the case for NOT using bioperine...

[shazam]

Also, to the other poster, yeah, taking FAT soluble vitamins with FAT is kinda implied.

You'd be surprised how many people take fat soluble vitamins without enough fat to absorb them. It's less important if they are already dissolved in oil as part of their formulation.

But you make good points otherwise. I'm not sure what else it would increase the absorption is, but it does make an interesting case for not splurging on exotic forms of vitamins and instead using bioperine.

It does? I was trying to make the case for NOT using bioperine...

Whoops, kinda merged statements there. You make an interesting case against it, but still, couldn't you conceivably save a ton of money on supplements using this?
Of course, the risks may outweigh the benefits, but then again, maybe not. It would be interesting if all those fancy forms of vitamins weren't even necessary.

As for the other dude, I suppose I'll look into that claim and see what exactly it means.

[shazam]

Oh shit.

Bioperine works by inhibiting some of the body's detoxification enzymes, which is how it actually increases the bioavaiability of things...things dont get broken down and shuttled out of the body. Unfortunately this leaves the body open to certain other toxins, namely those caused by incomplete burning of organic substances, i.e., exhaust fumes and charred food (mmmmm beef).

To quote AORsupport from Imminst.org:
Unless you have a totally toxin-free diet -- no overcooked foods, no pesticide residues in your meats and vegetables, no trace quantities of mycotoxins in your bread, etc -- and unless you have no sex steroids in your system, you rely on these processes to protect you against cancer on a continuous basis. Inhibiting them for a few hours every day to get better bioavailability out of your supplements is rather to mix up one's priorities.

So nevermind on the Bioperine, then. I kinda wish they'd specified an amount that could be particularly harmful, at least. I have a curcumin supp with it included (3mg) right now.

Edited by shazam, 26 October 2009 - 03:44 AM.

[apache]

I've read that because your body has to extract the piperine from black pepper before it can use it in the same manner, it is not quite as effective as just straight bioperine.

I've never heard this. Sounds more like marketing crap from the makers of bioperine than truthful statements to me.

My vote is to go try it out - either bioperine or black pepper. If you notice negative side effects, then stop it. If you notice positive side effects, then continue. Simple as that.

[Jay]

I've read that because your body has to extract the piperine from black pepper before it can use it in the same manner, it is not quite as effective as just straight bioperine.

I've never heard this. Sounds more like marketing crap from the makers of bioperine than truthful statements to me.

My vote is to go try it out - either bioperine or black pepper. If you notice negative side effects, then stop it. If you notice positive side effects, then continue. Simple as that.

That's absurd given the negative side effect of concern is carcinogenesis.

Edited by Jay, 26 October 2009 - 05:42 PM.

[ajnast4r]

If you notice negative side effects, then stop it. If you notice positive side effects, then continue. Simple as that.

classically bad approach to supplementation.

[apache]

Maybe I don't have the same pharmacology degree that you do. But I just don't see the cancer danger of black pepper.

[apache]

Maybe I don't have the same pharmacology degree that you do. But I just don't see how black pepper will give you cancer.

Edited by apache, 27 October 2009 - 04:18 PM.

[ajnast4r]

Maybe I don't have the same pharmacology degree that you do. But I just don't see the cancer danger of black pepper.

bioperine is not black pepper... its an isolated and highly concentrated chemical that is found in black pepper with drastically different physiological effects than black pepper. you would have to eat hundreds of grams of black pepper to achieve even a small dose of piperine (bioperine).

bioperine inhibits certain cytochromes, which are enzymes that remove xenobiotic substances... not a good thing. long term use would lead to higher physiological exposure to a lot of carcinogens... and its possible that bioperine itself is carcinogenic. its been discussed here before, search the forum and search pubmed.

Edited by ajnast4r, 27 October 2009 - 04:35 PM.

[shazam]

Maybe I don't have the same pharmacology degree that you do. But I just don't see the cancer danger of black pepper.

bioperine is not black pepper... its an isolated and highly concentrated chemical that is found in black pepper with drastically different physiological effects than black pepper. you would have to eat hundreds of grams of black pepper to achieve even a small dose of piperine (bioperine).

bioperine inhibits certain cytochromes, which are enzymes that remove xenobiotic substances... not a good thing. long term use would lead to higher physiological exposure to a lot of carcinogens... and its possible that bioperine itself is carcinogenic. its been discussed here before, search the forum and search pubmed.

See, this is why I'm glad I signed up for this forum, is stuff like this. I was on the verge of buying some, I probably would have upped my chances of getting H1N1 significantly taking it as often as I had planned. I still have a curcumin supp that has 3mg in it, but eh.. I plan on using it more as a painkiller (which it apparantly can work as) and anti inflammatory more than a super regular thing. Can't be all that worse than other painkillers.

Sidenote, who is currently using a curcumin supplement that doesn't have bioperine that works? I hear the bioavailability of curcumin is poor most of the time, hence the prevalence of bioperine, but I'm wondering if there's other ways to go about it, which there probably are.

[ajnast4r]

Sidenote, who is currently using a curcumin supplement that doesn't have bioperine that works? I hear the bioavailability of curcumin is poor most of the time, hence the prevalence of bioperine, but I'm wondering if there's other ways to go about it, which there probably are.

check this thread out

[shazam]

Sidenote, who is currently using a curcumin supplement that doesn't have bioperine that works? I hear the bioavailability of curcumin is poor most of the time, hence the prevalence of bioperine, but I'm wondering if there's other ways to go about it, which there probably are.

check this thread out

"Curcuminoids inhibit multiple human cytochromes P450 (CYP), UDP-glucuronosyltransferase (UGT), and sulfotransferase (SULT) enzymes, while piperine is a relatively selective CYP3A4 inhibitor"
http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2574793/

Well damn.

[Vultures]

Gosh... Should I be concerned about this product? http://www.iherb.com...Tablets/15?at=0
Just bought it in fact... Bioperine dosage is on the low side, isn't it?

[niner]

Gosh... Should I be concerned about this product? http://www.iherb.com...Tablets/15?at=0
Just bought it in fact... Bioperine dosage is on the low side, isn't it?

It's not a huge amount of Bioperine, so you probably don't need to throw it away. I don't like the product, though. It's not like mag glycinate has horrible absorption. And I'm not entirely sure that bioperine would have that much impact on magnesium absorption anyway. It might or it might not.

[shazam]

Gosh... Should I be concerned about this product? http://www.iherb.com...Tablets/15?at=0
Just bought it in fact... Bioperine dosage is on the low side, isn't it?

It's not a huge amount of Bioperine, so you probably don't need to throw it away. I don't like the product, though. It's not like mag glycinate has horrible absorption. And I'm not entirely sure that bioperine would have that much impact on magnesium absorption anyway. It might or it might not.

At least 30 percent for a standard magnesium. I don't think it would do a hell of a lot for an amino acid chelate, though. Different absorption mechinisms, but maybe.

I'm gonna advise you do what I plan to do: take it fucking easy on them if you can't return them yet. But take em anyway. I kinda doubt 1 bottle is gonna be your premature death knell. Just don't take it extremely often. That's what I'm doing with the remainder of my soy protein. Estrogenic properties ftl. Things that fuck with my endocrine system almost bother me more than the rather disturbing news about bioperine and curcumin.

Seriously, though, why are people still recommending curcumin? If the thing I can across in that other thread is true, it's bad news.

[kurdishfella]

anything that strengthens gut will help villi to absorb like probiotics. Bioperine cant work without villi.

https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC7196157/