15 replies to this topic

[Bluejay1]

Deltaran (Delta Sleep Inducing Peptide analogue) / Deltaran (DSIP analogue):

Dear Imminsters,

Has anyone here tried this??

Apparently it's a potent nootropic administered via intranasal drop solution (like Semax).

http://en.wikipedia....nducing_peptide

https://www.iron-dra...products_id=119

http://www.deltaran.com/

Its basic profile is that of a nootropic that also induces sleep according to the deltaran.com site.

Please report back if you do try this.

I've tried Semax with noticeable results, but this stuff is supposed to be a lot more potent than Semax!?!!

[Bluejay1]

Hey, is anyone around or did I post this query in the wrong forum?

[medievil]

Looks interesting

[yowza]

This is a very interesting find. I remember seeing this on the Iron Dragon site and was wondering what the name was. I thought about buying it at the time to help with sleep but a number of people seemed put off by it as if too much delta sleep would interfere with your daily rhythm.

Why have more people not responded? I think alot of the people on this forum tend to focus only on what they're currently trying or what they're currently studying. That's probably why there haven't been more replys to this post yet.

When seeing Deltaran as a sleep inducing peptide, it didn't register to me that this could be similar to semax. However, it's very interesting that you compare this to Semax. How are the 2 similar?

Also, how is this more potent?

Thanks.

Edited by yowza, 04 November 2009 - 09:19 PM.

[Bluejay1]

I didn't care much for CEMAKC, made me feel like a hammer hit me on the head whenever I snorted it. lol Maybe a bad batch.. I could care less as it is only ACTH4-10, a fragment of a stress hormone.. who really needs more stress hormone mediated activation?

It kinda put me off towards intranasal administration.. btw which is how DSIP would be administered =(

Why would someone NOT want to increase Delta sleep? That is one of the most restorative phases of sleep. For example Im pretty sure NPEP12 increases REM sleep and makes sleep more shallow and feel less restorative.. What a better way to improve cognition than to improve the most ignored aspect of biology? Sleep has long been neglected for its potential as a cognitive enhancer. Sleep and exercise.. But instead there is this psychotic focus on uppers, things that stimulate us during the daytime...

One of the best improvements in how I felt was via using zaleplon to force myself to get more sleep than usual. Unfortunately this isn't a good idea due to tolerance and the general damage that GABA agonists tend to do.. But by using the short acting BZD-like drug I was able to artificially inflate my sleep from the usual disturbed 7hrs to a wonderful 9+hours for 3 days in a row.. Zaleplon leaves less residual cognitive effects than the other BZD's btw because it is shorter acting. The overall effect that this increased sleep had on my wellbeing was phenomenal.. No amount of stimulants could mimic how clearheaded and calm but full of energy I felt.. Likewise going 40hrs without sleep diminishes intellect to that of a dullard, which is followed by at least a day of dysphoria.

If more pro-sleep substances were discovered and utilized it would seriously put 'nootropics' like -racetams to complete and utter shame. I have no doubt in my mind.

[Bluejay1]

This is one of the reasons why I could never understand Imminster's obsession with modafinil and now PDE4 inhibition.. preventing sleep IMO is BAD.

[ingscnixsi]

I didn't care much for CEMAKC, made me feel like a hammer hit me on the head whenever I snorted it. lol Maybe a bad batch.. I could care less as it is only ACTH4-10, a fragment of a stress hormone.. who really needs more stress hormone mediated activation?

It kinda put me off towards intranasal administration.. btw which is how DSIP would be administered =(

Why would someone NOT want to increase Delta sleep? That is one of the most restorative phases of sleep. For example Im pretty sure NPEP12 increases REM sleep and makes sleep more shallow and feel less restorative.. What a better way to improve cognition than to improve the most ignored aspect of biology? Sleep has long been neglected for its potential as a cognitive enhancer. Sleep and exercise.. But instead there is this psychotic focus on uppers, things that stimulate us during the daytime...

One of the best improvements in how I felt was via using zaleplon to force myself to get more sleep than usual. Unfortunately this isn't a good idea due to tolerance and the general damage that GABA agonists tend to do.. But by using the short acting BZD-like drug I was able to artificially inflate my sleep from the usual disturbed 7hrs to a wonderful 9+hours for 3 days in a row.. Zaleplon leaves less residual cognitive effects than the other BZD's btw because it is shorter acting. The overall effect that this increased sleep had on my wellbeing was phenomenal.. No amount of stimulants could mimic how clearheaded and calm but full of energy I felt.. Likewise going 40hrs without sleep diminishes intellect to that of a dullard, which is followed by at least a day of dysphoria.

If more pro-sleep substances were discovered and utilized it would seriously put 'nootropics' like -racetams to complete and utter shame. I have no doubt in my mind.

I know very little about brain chemistry, but I read this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17369935

Is potentiating gaba receptors and blocking NMDA receptors a bad thing?
Or not?
I'm considering buying this stuff to help with my post-benzodiazapine insomnia.

[wootwoot]

[I'm considering buying this stuff to help with my post-benzodiazapine insomnia.
[/quote]

Let me know how that works out for you I am in the same boat.

[ingscnixsi]

Actually you should look into flumazenil IV injections.
http://www.bcnc.org.uk/flumazenil.html

I'm considering buying this stuff too. It's supposed to reset you receptors back to normal or something.

[/quote]

Let me know how that works out for you I am in the same boat.
[/quote]

[Galantamine]

I know very little about brain chemistry, but I read this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17369935

Is potentiating gaba receptors and blocking NMDA receptors a bad thing?
Or not?
I'm considering buying this stuff to help with my post-benzodiazapine insomnia.

The process of memory formation requires agonism of NMDA receptors, so blocking them could be a problem if prolonged.

[yowza]

I know very little about brain chemistry, but I read this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17369935

Is potentiating gaba receptors and blocking NMDA receptors a bad thing?
Or not?
I'm considering buying this stuff to help with my post-benzodiazapine insomnia.

The process of memory formation requires agonism of NMDA receptors, so blocking them could be a problem if prolonged.

Is this always the case though?

There's an article that I found and posted at http://www.imminst.o...ome-t34773.html

Sorry that this is a bit off topic but is it possible for something like memantine to increase memory by having a somewhat "controlled antagonistic effect" (meaning only antagonistic towards excess activity) on NMDA receptors on a normal/healthy person?

[medievil]

I know very little about brain chemistry, but I read this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/17369935

Is potentiating gaba receptors and blocking NMDA receptors a bad thing?
Or not?
I'm considering buying this stuff to help with my post-benzodiazapine insomnia.

The process of memory formation requires agonism of NMDA receptors, so blocking them could be a problem if prolonged.

Is this always the case though?

There's an article that I found and posted at http://www.imminst.o...ome-t34773.html

Sorry that this is a bit off topic but is it possible for something like memantine to increase memory by having a somewhat "controlled antagonistic effect" (meaning only antagonistic towards excess activity) on NMDA receptors on a normal/healthy person?

Memantine has been proven to have cognitive promoting effects and as an neuroprotectant. There really is no reasen not to take memantine. I'm planning a trial next week, if my doc aproves it atleast. Its also been shown to increase BDNF.

I'm very interested in this peptide, has anyone more info about this phase of sleep?

[Bluejay1]

MY METHOD:

*If I have a question if substance A works what I normally do is test substance A and if it works, then I can say it seems to work.*

The only reason I dont intend on doing this with DSIP is bc of the delivery method. After much experimentation I've determined that intranasal is not a good delivery route FOR ME.. in that I've never used an intranasally delivered med that seemed to work.

I've only used (well I cant really say only) 1 substance that I saw a definite improvement of memory and its not crap like modafinil (although this isn't all that bad), ritalin or deprenyl (pure poison IMO). Im not going to mention it, however, bc nor does it cause a significant improvement and it may only be specific to myself and the last thing I want is a bunch of people running out and taking a med they don't need that probably wont even benefit them.

So you can obviously see that I have a hard time believing much of the hype about noots.

MY MAIN ISSUES:

1. There's no logical way Imminst goes about analyzing noot substances. There's little coordinated effort. People as individuals end up wasting a lot of money/time based mostly on weak anecdotes. It would be better to at least have one strong and organized collective anecdotal opinion on each substance.
2. Why isnt there ONE collaborative MASTER list???!? This list could be moderated and edited by PhD/bench scientist/qualified individuals in order to avoid misinformation. Average Imminst users like me could then submit comments on certain substances tried from personal experience and then moderators could choose what and how to add it to the ORGANIZED master list.
3. How does Imminst expect to achieve the lofty goals of immortality/transhumanism when there aren't even reliable methods of improving human intelligence/information recall and retention? NOT ONLY THAT but there is rampant misinformation available here on Imminst on the subject of cognitive enhancement.

I have information contributions but no organized place to deposit them.

I think the 2 main concerns of this forum should be:
1) Evidence-based cognitive enhancement (in order to aid in the achievement of goal 2
2) Methuselah mouse. If met, I can't see how the achievement of this goal could be ignored by the mainstream scientific community. However, there are so many hurdles and intricacies left to complicate the problem.. countless diseases, excessive cost, society/overpopulation,etc, etc.. Increasing the lifespan of a rodent will only be the beginning of a centuries-long project anyway which isn't going to benefit any currently living individual.. so we might as well be focusing on #1 anyway.

Well got to stop typing. I hope I made sense to someone

[chrono]

Bluejay: this is all very off-topic. Why did you post this here? Just because you had a brief comment about why you didn't want to try this? If you want to discuss general methodology (which you should seriously examine), any number of places are better than the DSIP thread.

And on the subject of "weak anecdotes," in the MemoProve thread you've been ignoring some fairly definitive objective research in your steadfast position that you can pick out the subtlest element in a multicomponent mix, even though it shouldn't work. Even suggesting that it isn't worth discussing the mechanism of action, because of your incredibly vague anecdotal evidence. Which way do you want it?



VERY SORRY to substantiate this thread derailment. This is one of the substances I have a lot of interest in, and hopefully will have something to contribute once I've visited some libraries. Hope to try it when one of those ships comes in

[Bluejay1]

Chrono, I only appreciate posts. I'm not trying to prove anything, esp in regard to the Memoprove.. that stuff is difficult, and my only point about it is that yes, there must be some active peptide or other ingredient in it that crosses the BBB to have noticeable psychological effects. I really have no other motivation other than posting the fact that I have used it off and on and it seems rather strong to the point it isn't all that useful to me.

IE I am posting according to the simple unconvoluted method I just wrote about, namely:
1) procure substance
2) take substance in many varying ways
3) notice subjective effects and report on them. to those who ask

If you can state what it is you say I am ignoring you might be mistaken in the fact that I have ignored whatever it is. Just bc I dont post a reply to every point made.. I simply can't... which once again goes to the fact that we desparately need a static well organized all-encompassing list of neurological drugs. I have a cute little 40+pp pdf written by someone in Novartis (i think) that would serve as a useful example of what I mean as well as supplying about 2/3 of what is currently in the pipeline. Perhaps this is something to be done in Wikipedia, sort of like the current Nootropics page on wiki.. However, a better and more informative one could be made by ppl like you and me. And if you are an expert on methodology that would be great, such a list could benefit tremendously from that.

I posted this here, well because it is as good as any other place, but was hoping to get the attention of others who might be interested in such a thing.

Not trying to get into a who can piss the farthest argument.

Bluejay: this is all very off-topic. Why did you post this here? Just because you had a brief comment about why you didn't want to try this? If you want to discuss general methodology (which you should seriously examine), any number of places are better than the DSIP thread.

And on the subject of "weak anecdotes," in the MemoProve thread you've been ignoring some fairly definitive objective research in your steadfast position that you can pick out the subtlest element in a multicomponent mix, even though it shouldn't work. Even suggesting that it isn't worth discussing the mechanism of action, because of your incredibly vague anecdotal evidence. Which way do you want it?



VERY SORRY to substantiate this thread derailment. This is one of the substances I have a lot of interest in, and hopefully will have something to contribute once I've visited some libraries. Hope to try it when one of those ships comes in

[Bluejay1]

Chrono, also there is no reason to apologize,

I look forward to any future posts of trials you make concerning DSIP - as I don't think I will be trialing it nor Selank (which also seems interesting).

And yes I did foolishly down an entire foil of 50 of noopept. I seriously don't advise this and agree 100% with anyone that claims that this is foolish stupid thing to do. I don't always do everything 100% rationally.

VERY SORRY to substantiate this thread derailment. This is one of the substances I have a lot of interest in, and hopefully will have something to contribute once I've visited some libraries. Hope to try it when one of those ships comes in

Edited by chrono, 26 August 2010 - 02:32 PM.
fixed quote tag