19 replies to this topic

[matthias7]

Hi All:

Looking into melatonin.

Normal exogenase hormones are either dangerous (e.g. testosterone) or else completely ineffective (GABA).

Testos being dangerous because of the feedback loop it immediately creates shutting down natural production.
GABA being ineffective because it can't get into the brain.

Melatonin is interesting. It is supposed to have anti-cancer effects, its used for SAD and presumably will give a good nights sleep.

I read around the topic and... its cheap, available in time release, the concerntrations available are probably too strong (better than too weak and a good place to start - always decrease dosage if there is an effect) and doesn't seem to have nasty side effects when stopping using it. Also it is considered to pass straight through the blood membrane barrier.

What am I missing and what are the catches? What are the dosages? Any other info on this really welcome.

Sleep supplements are pretty important, for sports they are used for HGh release (which is where and how I understand sleep supplements). As for me ... is often said here a good nights sleep is a great noot and thats what I'm interested in.

Cheers,

Matthias

Edited by matthias7, 19 November 2009 - 07:14 PM.

[FunkOdyssey]

Catches may include exaggeration of autoimmune responses by stimulating the immune system, possible changes in sex hormones and prolactin, delayed gut transit due to melatonin's inhibitory effect on gut motility, headaches and depression from higher doses.

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 19 November 2009 - 07:16 PM.

[matthias7]

Thanks Funky!

Lower testos. would be expected. Doesn't bother me, I know about natty methods of boosting test like the back of my hand (google "icariin log" for an example).

Its a good point to think about though. Higher prolactin is likely, again it can be overcome using plant sterols, e.g. gingko biloba.

Constipation (Funky was being polite!) is worrying! I suspect it wouldn't be long lasting.

Auto-immunity is very worrying. Would need to be very careful. The auto-immune response I have is hay fever, so any increase in that would need to be monitored. Long term elevated immunity is a positive health hazzard.

Headaches, is one to watch and depression at high dose is one to watch. If either of those crop up then discontinue.

The thing that worries me is possible feedback loops. Where natural melatonin is shutdown as soon as the body realizes its swamped by the stuff. If that happens cycling melatonin is the only way to go. I presume I'd get chronic insomnia if I got shutdown and stopped exogenase melatonin.

Edited by matthias7, 19 November 2009 - 07:30 PM.

[matthias7]

Has anyone here used melatonin?

[FunkOdyssey]

The thing that worries me is possible feedback loops. Where natural melatonin is shutdown as soon as the body realizes its swamped by the stuff. If that happens cycling melatonin is the only way to go. I presume I'd get chronic insomnia if I got shutdown and stopped exogenase melatonin.

I haven't heard of this happening to anyone in practice. I have personally stopped/started/changed doses without incident (only problems occurred when raising the dose quickly which caused temporary insomnia and sleep disturbances).

Edited by FunkOdyssey, 19 November 2009 - 07:34 PM.

[Zoroaster]

I've used melatonin for about 10 years. All my hormone tests are normal. If it's affecting my testosterone levels it's still within normal range. And I've never had constipation or headache issues. It dose cause down-regulation of endogenous melatonin production but it's pretty slight. After about three years of nightly use I got to a point where I was pretty restless without it, I could still fall asleep but it was tough. But it's honestly hard to tell if that was worse than my baseline state or not since I had a lot of anxiety in those days.

Now I take it on an almost nightly basis. I probably miss one night every two weeks or so. And I have no significant problems with down-regulation. If I don't have my melatonin, I don't get as tired and I'm not as motivated to sleep, but it's not hard to fall asleep once I decide to go to bed. My bottle just ran out two nights ago in fact, and I slept fine last night. I suppose you could cycle off every once in a while, but I wouldn't worry too much about it.

If you have hay fever you may want to be wary. I don't have any autoimmune issues but I do know that my immune system is ridiculously powerful. I guess it's a combination of my melatonin, my low calorie diet, and a few of the other immune boosting supplements I take occasionally. I haven't had a sickness of any kind in three years, despite working in hospitals and living with numerous sick people. If part of that is due to my melatonin, I can't really complain.

I started with 1-2mg nightly then for a long time I took 3mg, but for the last two years or so I've been taking 5mg. I know that's far more than is supposed to be necessary but it really seems to work better for me than 3mg, and like I said I'm still not getting major down-regulation issues so that's what I've settled on.

[pycnogenol]

I take melatonin nightly, usually 300 micrograms 1 hour prior to bedtime but sometimes I up it to 600 micrograms. I don't cycle it. Works like a charm for me.

[wildfun]

Has anyone here used melatonin?

I used to use it more during a brief period when I was concerned with going to bed at a reasonable hour. It was similar to 5HTP in that it had a slight relaxing effect. That could have easily been the placebo effect, but psychosomatic works for me!

It did help me stay asleep throughout the night. I also had very vivid dreams, which was notable for me since I can never remember my dreams unless i have a nightmare.

I used a very low dose, 1 or 2 of the 3mg(mcg?) pills. No hangover that I can recall either; it was a really mild supplement.

[matthias7]

Thanks all. Very useful thread. I see how it goes.

Having a similar effect to 5HTP - bit surprising. Anyway I'll give it a try, if it doesn't work there doesn't seem to be any real drawback.

[Johann]

I've been using for 15 years.

I've noticed an immediate libido boost when taking it.

If it stimulates the immune system, that may be good for autoimmune problems as there may be an underlying immunosuppression going on. This runs counter to what has been usually suspected though it is gaining popularity.

[matthias7]

Thanks.

If there's a noted easy to spot effect, must be doing something. Seems a bit too good to be true, all benefit no/little drawback.

[xzibit]

Hey Matthias,
haven't used melatonin myself yet, but from what i've seen on it, many benefits and little or no drawbacks.. way to go i think

[matthias7]

Okay here's the report.

Fantastic stuff. 1.5 mcg = good. 0.75mcg = great.

Weekend use only for now.

[immortali457]

Okay here's the report.

Fantastic stuff. 1.5 mcg = good. 0.75mcg = great.

Weekend use only for now.

That's an extremely low dose. Why???
And how do you take such a low dose???

[Moonbeam]

I take 3 mg most nights for the above-mentioned beneficial effects, and have had not bad side effects that I've noticed. I don't think there is supression of endogenous production because I don't have any trouble sleeping on nights that I don't take it for whatever reason. I give it to my BF periodically when he can't sleep and it works for that too.

I took 20 mg once (actually twice; I didn't learn the first time) for the dream effect and I will never do that again. The nightmares were horrific.

[niner]

Okay here's the report.

Fantastic stuff. 1.5 mcg = good. 0.75mcg = great.

Weekend use only for now.

That's an extremely low dose. Why???
And how do you take such a low dose???

That's not a low dose, it's comparable to (greater, actually) than the endogenous "dose". I do the exact same thing, and it works great. You do it by cutting a 3mg tablet into quarters with a pill splitter.

[immortali457]

Okay here's the report.

Fantastic stuff. 1.5 mcg = good. 0.75mcg = great.

Weekend use only for now.

That's an extremely low dose. Why???
And how do you take such a low dose???

That's not a low dose, it's comparable to (greater, actually) than the endogenous "dose". I do the exact same thing, and it works great. You do it by cutting a 3mg tablet into quarters with a pill splitter.

He said mcg not mg

[Imagination]

Okay here's the report.

Fantastic stuff. 1.5 mcg = good. 0.75mcg = great.

Weekend use only for now.

So you find .75 better than 1.5 then? In what ways?

I find 1.5 works better than 3, never gone lower as not needed a reason too, the 1.5 works fine. 3 got a bit hungover or woke up 2 hours later and couldn't get back to sleep.

Edited by Imagination, 29 November 2009 - 07:27 PM.

[Sillewater]

I find 300mcg works way better than 3mg.

[silverneedle]

Has anyone tried asphalia??