466 replies to this topic

[valkyrie_ice]

#2. So might this:

http://news.cnet.com..._3-6226196.html

COMBINED WITH:
http://www.ecogeek.o...nt/article/1128

= 1200 miles per charge. l0l.

Totally appropriate, but as it was in Bob's Thread I didn't include it previously.

And the battery tech is just one more example of how rapidly we are reaching a stage where Oil will be unnecessary as FUEL for vehicles. Which of the various Ultracapacitance batteries hits first is up for grabs, but they all will radically redefine the concept of "battery life"

And I agree with one commentor, the bike is an obvious tribute to the AKIRA bike.

[valkyrie_ice]

*giggle* here is a fun one for everyone participating in Fold@home or Rosetta.

http://fold.it/portal/

Why is this game important?

What big problems is this game tackling?

Protein structure prediction: As described above, knowing the structure of a protein is key to understanding how it works and to targeting it with drugs. A small proteins can consist of 100 amino acids, while some human proteins can be huge (1000 amino acids). The number of different ways even a small protein can fold is astronomical because there are so many degrees of freedom. Figuring out which of the many, many possible structures is the best one is regarded as one of the hardest problems in biology today and current methods take a lot of money and time, even for computers. Foldit attempts to predict the structure of a protein by taking advantage of humans' puzzle-solving intuitions and having people play competitively to fold the best proteins.
Protein design: Since proteins are part of so many diseases, they can also be part of the cure. Players can design brand new proteins that could help prevent or treat important diseases.
A human protein (+) Enlarge This Image
How does my game playing contribute to curing diseases?

With all the things proteins do to keep our bodies functioning and healthy, they can be involved in disease in many different ways. The more we know about how certain proteins fold, the better new proteins we can design to combat the disease-related proteins and cure the diseases. Below, we list three diseases that represent different ways that proteins can be involved in disease.

HIV / AIDS: The HIV virus is made up largely of proteins, and once inside a cell it creates other proteins to help itself reproduce. HIV-1 protease and reverse transcriptase are two proteins made by the HIV virus that help it infect the body and replicate itself. HIV-1 protease cuts the "polyprotein" made by the replicating virus into the functional pieces it needs. Reverse transcriptase converts HIV's genes from RNA into a form its host understands, DNA. Both proteins are critical for the virus to replicate inside the body, and both are targeted by anti-HIV drugs. This is an example of a disease producing proteins that do not occur naturally in the body to help it attack our cells.
Cancer: Cancer is very different from HIV in that it's usually our own proteins to blame, instead of proteins from an outside invader. Cancer arises from the uncontrolled growth of cells in some part of our bodies, such as the lung, breast, or skin. Ordinarily, there are systems of proteins that limit cell growth, but they may be damaged by things like UV rays from the sun or chemicals from cigarette smoke. But other proteins, like p53 tumor suppressor, normally recognize the damage and stop the cell from becoming cancerous -- unless they too are damaged. In fact, damage to the gene for p53 occurs in about half of human cancers (together with damage to various other genes).
Alzheimer's: In some ways, Alzheimer's is the disease most directly caused by proteins. A protein called amyloid-beta precursor protein is a normal part of healthy, functioning nerve cells in the brain. But to do its job, it gets cut into two pieces, leaving behind a little scrap from the middle -- amyloid-beta peptide. Many copies of this peptide (short protein segment) can come together to form clumps of protein in the brain. Although many things about Alzheimer's are still not understood, it is thought that these clumps of protein are a major part of the disease.
This is an example of a puzzle that a human can see the obvious answer to - fix the sheet that is sticking out! (+) Enlarge This Image
What other good stuff am I contributing to by playing?

Proteins are found in all living things, including plants. Certain types of plants are grown and converted to biofuel, but the conversion process is not as fast and efficient as it could be. A critical step in turning plants into fuel is breaking down the plant material, which is currently done by microbial enzymes (proteins) called "cellulases". Perhaps we can find new proteins to do it better.

Can humans really help computers fold proteins?

We’re collecting data to find out if humans' pattern-recognition and puzzle-solving abilities make them more efficient than existing computer programs at pattern-folding tasks. If this turns out to be true, we can then teach human strategies to computers and fold proteins faster than ever!

You can find more information about the goals of the project in our FAQ.

That's right folks, You too can now play scientist! So step right up and try your luck!

Games doing real work for science. The future is going to be fun!

I was led to this by this article: http://www.xconomy.c...ingle_page=true

It seems teenage gamers are beating the pants off scientists so far. Step up to the challenge and help us make a better future through VIDEO GAMES!

[valkyrie_ice]

And I came across this lovely little Video while trying to learn how to make sculpted prims. You can watch the whole video (recommended) or just watch the Hottie doing the intro. http://blog.machinim...-i-for-blender/

That's a secondlife avatar, using the standard speaking animation, synced to the windows voice synthesizer. A fully computer generated environment doing effective teaching.

This is why I say VR will jumpstart robotics and AI. Imagine that same virtual person appearing in a classroom, our your living room. Imagine your kid attending classes, real classes with other students, from the comfort of his room, with a teacher as available for individual instruction as she is for group education. Combine it with the post above, where part of education will spent playing interactive learning games. Where the class could be as fun and engrossing as his favorite video game.

That teacher could be as "robotic" as the avatar above, but with far more sophisticated graphics, and a true to life voice. Others like her could be at your cash register in a fast food joint, trained to use the best customer service policies. Or in the store, always there to answer a question or make a sale, allowing the human attendants to focus on on those customers needing physical assistance. How about a Virtual Traffic cop to immediately handle emergencys? A personal Librarian? A private cooking tutor when you're trying to impress that date?

And as those Virtual "robots" push and fund research into ever more sophisticated AI, the need for physical versions will also be pushed and funded.



The reason I recommended watching the whole video though is to demonstrate another point. Pay attention to the tools used to create a shape. How easy they are to use with a proper explanation. Now think about those same tools being used to design an object. Then think about setting parameters such as strength material and finish. Then sending that to a 3D printer, or nanofactory.

High Level Design tools for low level manufacture. This is why I say Secondlife is a prototype for the future of abundance. Think about it.

Edited by valkyrie_ice, 09 May 2010 - 09:09 PM.

[Elus]

And I came across this lovely little Video while trying to learn how to make sculpted prims. You can watch the whole video (recommended) or just watch the Hottie doing the intro. http://blog.machinim...-i-for-blender/

That's a secondlife avatar, using the standard speaking animation, synced to the windows voice synthesizer. A fully computer generated environment doing effective teaching.

This is why I say VR will jumpstart robotics and AI. Imagine that same virtual person appearing in a classroom, our your living room. Imagine your kid attending classes, real classes with other students, from the comfort of his room, with a teacher as available for individual instruction as she is for group education. Combine it with the post above, where part of education will spent playing interactive learning games. Where the class could be as fun and engrossing as his favorite video game.

That teacher could be as "robotic" as the avatar above, but with far more sophisticated graphics, and a true to life voice. Others like her could be at your cash register in a fast food joint, trained to use the best customer service policies. Or in the store, always there to answer a question or make a sale, allowing the human attendants to focus on on those customers needing physical assistance. How about a Virtual Traffic cop to immediately handle emergencys? A personal Librarian? A private cooking tutor when you're trying to impress that date?

And as those Virtual "robots" push and fund research into ever more sophisticated AI, the need for physical versions will also be pushed and funded.



The reason I recommended watching the whole video though is to demonstrate another point. Pay attention to the tools used to create a shape. How easy they are to use with a proper explanation. Now think about those same tools being used to design an object. Then think about setting parameters such as strength material and finish. Then sending that to a 3D printer, or nanofactory.

High Level Design tools for low level manufacture. This is why I say Secondlife is a prototype for the future of abundance. Think about it.

Education in its current form is highly inefficient. It took me one year to learn calculus, and yet a computer can learn it within seconds. Perhaps in the future, instead of buying movies and games, we'll be buying PhD's that can be downloaded to a chip embedded in our brain. Calculus? No problem. Biology, astrophysics, chemistry, engineering? Cake.

It's really the ability to analyze and think that should be the focus of the education of the future (And arguably the present). Without analytical skills, one would not be able to cope with the vast influx of information all around us. The information itself would be easy to obtain.

[valkyrie_ice]

and to update:

http://gizmodo.com/5...rs-from-3500-...

Last week, in the early hours of the morning, a crew methodically swept over New York City in a laser-equipped Shrike Commander aircraft. They were busy creating the most accurate, detailed 3D map of the city to date.

The plane scanned the city—its buildings and streets, parks and early-morning pedestrians—with Lidar technology (presumably no traffic tickets were written.) The map, which will cost the city some $450,000 to make, will be used to pinpoint areas prone to flooding and to determine if the city's rooftops are suitable for the installation of solar panels.

The New York Times mentions that city officials are considering it a 21st Century upgrade of The Panorama, the massive architectural model of the city that Robert Moses created in 1964.

Think about that. New York City, now available in Virtual Space. Sure, it's just the outsides but imagine how it will progress. Throw in the Architectural blueprints to each building and viola, you have a virtual interior as well.

Now imagine a game like Fallen Earth, which uses actual topographical data of the state of Arizona for it's post apocalyptic world, using the accurate virtual model of New York as a game setting.

It's not going to be long...

[valkyrie_ice]

And in the world of Molecular Computers:

http://www.eurekaler...u-bco042310.php

Brain-like computing on an organic molecular layer

Toward intelligent and creative computers

Information processing circuits in digital computers are static. In our brains, information processing circuits—neurons—evolve continuously to solve complex problems. Now, an international research team from Japan and Michigan Technological University has created a similar process of circuit evolution in an organic molecular layer that can solve complex problems. This is the first time a brain-like "evolutionary circuit" has been realized.

This computer is massively parallel: The world's fastest supercomputers can only process bits one at a time in each of their channels. Their circuit allows instantaneous changes of ~300 bits.

Their processor can produce solutions to problems for which algorithms on computers are unknown, like predictions of natural calamities and outbreaks of disease. To prove this unique feature, they have mimicked two natural phenomena in the molecular layer: heat diffusion and the evolution of cancer cells.

The monolayer has intelligence; it can solve many problems on the same grid.

Their molecular processor heals itself if there is a defect. This remarkable self-healing property comes from the self-organizing ability of the molecular monolayer. No existing man-made computer has this property, but our brain does: if a neuron dies, another neuron takes over its function.

The work is described in the Nature Physics paper "Massively parallel computing on an organic molecular layer." It is coauthored by Ranjit Pati, of the Michigan Technological University Department of Physics. Lead author is Anirban Bandyopadhyay, National Institute for Materials Science, National Institute of Information and Communication Technology, Japan.

While currently only able to be programmed via a STM by arranging individual molecules on the surface prior to computing, this does hold enormous potential. Once it is refined and viable to make commercially we could see entirely new forms of computing, especially for modeling chaotic systems using massive data sets, like weather.

It's also potentially a breakthrough for AI systems as well. Should be interesting to watch.

[valkyrie_ice]

And from Foresight:

The BEST-est Reason ever to support Life Extension technology

Boomers should stick around, keep working, and help pay off the national debt(s) {that they created}. And while we’re at it, we can help clean up the environment {that they were so keen to destroy}. It’s not fair to leave these tasks as burdens on the next generation. —Chris Peterson

the additions in { } are mine.

Life Extension. Making you hang around and take responsibility for your actions.

[niner]

And from Foresight:

The BEST-est Reason ever to support Life Extension technology

Boomers should stick around, keep working, and help pay off the national debt(s) {that they created}. And while we’re at it, we can help clean up the environment {that they were so keen to destroy}. It’s not fair to leave these tasks as burdens on the next generation. —Chris Peterson

the additions in { } are mine.

Life Extension. Making you hang around and take responsibility for your actions.

Responsibility. I like it. To be fair, though, Your additions are misleading. The Boomer's parents had a large hand in creating those debts, while the boomers were working to pay them. The Boomers, as a generation, were certainly not keen on destroying the environment. They were the first generation to really give a damn about the environment. All over the world, people are foisting off expenses on their children's and grandchildren's generation. At this very minute, you and I are passing debt onto the next generation. That's wrong, but demonizing one generation isn't fair, and isn't going to help anything.

[valkyrie_ice]

And from Foresight:

The BEST-est Reason ever to support Life Extension technology

Boomers should stick around, keep working, and help pay off the national debt(s) {that they created}. And while we’re at it, we can help clean up the environment {that they were so keen to destroy}. It’s not fair to leave these tasks as burdens on the next generation. —Chris Peterson

the additions in { } are mine.

Life Extension. Making you hang around and take responsibility for your actions.

Responsibility. I like it. To be fair, though, Your additions are misleading. The Boomer's parents had a large hand in creating those debts, while the boomers were working to pay them. The Boomers, as a generation, were certainly not keen on destroying the environment. They were the first generation to really give a damn about the environment. All over the world, people are foisting off expenses on their children's and grandchildren's generation. At this very minute, you and I are passing debt onto the next generation. That's wrong, but demonizing one generation isn't fair, and isn't going to help anything.

Agreed, but the boomers are the only gen likely to actually possibly see life extension. And since they are the group currently more or less running things into the ground politically, and pretty much doing everything they can to avoid responsibility and accountability, well, the sentiment makes me laugh at the irony.

Death is seen as inevitable, so if you can just shuffle off the mortal coil prior to the consequences coming back to harm you, it's easy to justify the corruption, the waste, and the pollution, and the general irresponsibility. But when death is cured?

Maybe once enough people realize they will be the ones suffering, not their children, we'll start seeing some real reform.

[Luna]

But they believe they will die. Why would they bother?
Wait, aren't the boomers are those at ages of 40s? aren't you one of them?

[ben951]

But they believe they will die. Why would they bother?
Wait, aren't the boomers are those at ages of 40s? aren't you one of them?

If I'm not mistaken to be in the boomer generation you must be born in the years after WW2.

More around 60 YO now.

[niner]

But they believe they will die. Why would they bother?
Wait, aren't the boomers are those at ages of 40s? aren't you one of them?

If I'm not mistaken to be in the boomer generation you must be born in the years after WW2.

More around 60 YO now.

Sorta, but not just immediately after. Demographers, sociologists and the media define baby boomers as those born between (and including) 1946 and 1964. Boomers would be aged from 46 to 65 in 2010. All that Social Security and Medicare money that is running up our national debt is going to the generation before the boomers, and being paid by the boomers, GenX, Y, and Z. The modern environmental movement started about 40 years ago, largely a Boomer production. Boomers have been "in power" for about 15-30 years, depending on how it's defined.

Agreed, but the boomers are the only gen likely to actually possibly see life extension. And since they are the group currently more or less running things into the ground politically, and pretty much doing everything they can to avoid responsibility and accountability, well, the sentiment makes me laugh at the irony.

You mean they are the first generation who might possibly have a chance to see LE. Aside from that, you're tarring a whole generation with the sins of a few. That's not acceptable when it's done on the basis of race, gender, or sexual orientation, so why is it ok now? The problems of debt and the environment are too large and too long-standing to be pinned on any one generation. There are members of all generations (save the very youngest) who are contributing to the problem, or contributing to the solution.

[valkyrie_ice]

Agreed, but the boomers are the only gen likely to actually possibly see life extension. And since they are the group currently more or less running things into the ground politically, and pretty much doing everything they can to avoid responsibility and accountability, well, the sentiment makes me laugh at the irony.

You mean they are the first generation who might possibly have a chance to see LE. Aside from that, you're tarring a whole generation with the sins of a few. That's not acceptable when it's done on the basis of race, gender, or sexual orientation, so why is it ok now? The problems of debt and the environment are too large and too long-standing to be pinned on any one generation. There are members of all generations (save the very youngest) who are contributing to the problem, or contributing to the solution.

You're quite right. Even I have moments of overexaggeration. Too many arguments recently with idiots probably. Not a valid excuse though. I'm an old hippy at heart I suppose.

[Luna]

http://www.newscient...into-girls.html

This is the first experiment to show that body ownership can be transferred to an entirely virtual body," says Mel Slater of the University of Barcelona, Spain, who led the team that carried out the experiment.

[Luna]

The application is available on the Tissot website www.tissot.ch/reality and allows users, when they hold their wrist in front of a webcam, to try on watches and change models, colours and styles on their computer and see themselves in realtime 3D. ...

[valkyrie_ice]

http://io9.com/55383...-line-in-action

It may look like some diagrams and a few blobs, but what you're seeing here is nothing short of a nanotech revolution. Four nanorobots made of DNA are interacting on an "assembly line" in order to build a tiny device.

Today in Nature, a group of researchers announced they'd successfully operated the first assembly line populated entirely by nanobots. The bots in question are molecular machines made from strands of DNA, and each one has four "feet" that walk on a specially-prepared surface covered in chemicals that direct the bot's motion. It also has three "arms" to carry cargo - in this case various sizes of gold particles. These gold particles can bind together into eight different products.

In their experiment, the scientists succeeded in guiding a nanobot to pick up the three gold particles, each held by other bots. It walked up to each bot, grabbed the gold cargo, and moved on to the next bot to do the same thing.

Bob might have covered this already, but the Gizmodo article is a good indicator of how big a breakthrough this is.

Nano assemblers exist. Sit back, relax, buckle your seatbelts. The JATO units are about to fire.

[Reno]

Yeah, it's definitely a huge step forward. Being able to program robots to do simple tasks means that we're only a few years to a decade from complicated tasks.

Edited by Reno, 14 May 2010 - 12:05 AM.

[valkyrie_ice]

http://www.newscient...into-girls.html

This is the first experiment to show that body ownership can be transferred to an entirely virtual body," says Mel Slater of the University of Barcelona, Spain, who led the team that carried out the experiment.

I've know this for years. Nice to see some research verifying it. Thanks for the links

[valkyrie_ice]

And in fast printed manufacturing news:

http://gizmodo.com/5...under-2-minutes

DuPont has excelled where no man has before—demonstrating the first OLED panels to be printed, and in under two minutes no less. Using a Dainippon Screen multi-nozzle printer, they successfully created a 50-inch display.

This is something they've been talking about for years now, so it's pleasing to see DuPont has finally managed to achieve their (rather lofty) goals. The OLED panels have a purported lifetime of 15 years, and will help bring the cost right down if they're able to be created in the time it takes to boil the kettle.

DuPont teamed up with Dainippon Screen, whose printers can squeeze out active molecules within the ink, layering them up between 12 to 15 layers—taking just a second to drop 4 - 5m of ink down. Pretty amazing stuff, and great news for anyone who's ever fallen in love with Sony or LG's OLED panels.

Think about that. 50 inch display PRINTED in under 2 minutes. Current LCD panels are created on glass, and take hours and several dozen different steps. and 50inch displays are extremely hard to make due to the frailty of the glass.

And now they can potentially be cranked out on flexible plastic, in under 2 minutes. Commercialization should be quick.

[Reno]

And in fast printed manufacturing news:

http://gizmodo.com/5...under-2-minutes

DuPont has excelled where no man has before—demonstrating the first OLED panels to be printed, and in under two minutes no less. Using a Dainippon Screen multi-nozzle printer, they successfully created a 50-inch display.

This is something they've been talking about for years now, so it's pleasing to see DuPont has finally managed to achieve their (rather lofty) goals. The OLED panels have a purported lifetime of 15 years, and will help bring the cost right down if they're able to be created in the time it takes to boil the kettle.

DuPont teamed up with Dainippon Screen, whose printers can squeeze out active molecules within the ink, layering them up between 12 to 15 layers—taking just a second to drop 4 - 5m of ink down. Pretty amazing stuff, and great news for anyone who's ever fallen in love with Sony or LG's OLED panels.

Think about that. 50 inch display PRINTED in under 2 minutes. Current LCD panels are created on glass, and take hours and several dozen different steps. and 50inch displays are extremely hard to make due to the frailty of the glass.

And now they can potentially be cranked out on flexible plastic, in under 2 minutes. Commercialization should be quick.

Printing up TVs, talk about wave of the future. Problem now though is they're going to be everywhere in the blink of an eye. Imagine the sheer amount of visual pollution walking through a shopping center.

[valkyrie_ice]

Printing up TVs, talk about wave of the future. Problem now though is they're going to be everywhere in the blink of an eye. Imagine the sheer amount of visual pollution walking through a shopping center.

I've been saying that a animated cereal box was inevitable, haven't I?

And further printing news:

http://nextbigfuture...rinting-of.html

FEMTOPRINT is to develop a printer for microsystems with nano-scale features fabricated out of glass. Our ultimate goal is to provide a large pool of users from industry, research and universities with the capability of producing their own micro-systems, in a rapid-manner without the need for expensive infrastructures and specific expertise. Recent researches have shown that one can form three-dimensional patterns in glass material using low-power femtosecond laser beam.

These patterns can be used to form integrated optics components or be developed by chemically etching to form three-dimensional structures like fluidic channels and micro-mechanical components. Worth noticing, sub-micron resolution can be achieved and sub-pattern smaller than the laser wavelength can be formed. Thanks to the low-energy required to pattern the glass, femtosecond laser consisting simply of an oscillator are sufficient to produce such micro- and nano- systems. These systems are nowadays table-top and cost a fraction of conventional clean-room equipments.

It is highly foreseeable that within 3 to 5 years such laser systems will fit in a shoe-box.

The proposal specific objectives are:
- Develop a femtosecond laser suitable for glass micro-/nano- manufacturing that fits in a shoe-box
- Integrate the laser in a machine similar to a printer that can position and manipulate glass sheets of various thicknesses
- Demonstrate the use of the printer to fabricate a variety of micro-/nano-systems with optical, mechanical and fluid-handling capabilities.

A shoebox sized device capable of printing fementometer scale devices. Can we say optical computers? Can we say yet one more bit of evidence that printing is going to significantly change the dynamics of the entire capitalist system?

[valkyrie_ice]

Further details on the 50 inch OLED

OLEDs on the market today rely on an expensive, small-scale technique called shadow-mask evaporation to pattern the light-emitting organic molecules that make up the pixels in these displays. LG's 15-inch OLED television, the biggest on the market, is set to come out in the United States this year at a cost of $2,725. At these prices, OLEDs can't compete with liquid-crystal displays (LCDs), which are relatively inexpensive because manufacturers can make them at large volumes.

OLED displays are made up of 12 to 15 layers of materials. In each pixel the red, green, and blue light-emitting materials are positioned side by side and sandwiched between materials that bring electrical current in and out of the device and that allow light to leave it. When these layers blend together during printing, device performance suffers.

DuPont has addressed this problem by using active molecules in the inks used to print each layer that are insoluble in the inks used to print the adjacent layers. This is more complex than it may sound, says Feehery. "Each of these materials is a major development effort on its own, and having to tie it to the ones above and below it imposes a lot of constraints," he says.

Think about that. The materials used to print each layer is insoluble to the next layer. This raised a possibility to me, where you could possibly combine these inks with the self assembling structures discussed elsewhere in this thread. What this could lead to is video paint. You buy a set of paint cans, one for each needed layer, and simply paint, let dry, paint again, and so on, until you've painted a complete OLED display on a wall.

Yeah, Reno is right, our world is going to be a lot more display saturated. Soon.

[niner]

A shoebox sized device capable of printing fementometer scale devices. Can we say optical computers? Can we say yet one more bit of evidence that printing is going to significantly change the dynamics of the entire capitalist system?

A small correction-- these devices will not be on a femtometer scale, which would be sub-atomic. The laser has a femtosecond pulse width, and a wavelength that probably isn't too far from the optical range. The scale of the devices that could be produced would range from micrometer to nanometer, though probably in the hundreds of nanometers. I believe you are correct that printing is going to be huge. I'm not sure about changing the dynamics of the entire capitalist system, unless they can print things like food, cars, or buildings, with the cost of the "ink" being less that the cost of conventional materials and associated labor.

[valkyrie_ice]

A shoebox sized device capable of printing fementometer scale devices. Can we say optical computers? Can we say yet one more bit of evidence that printing is going to significantly change the dynamics of the entire capitalist system?

A small correction-- these devices will not be on a femtometer scale, which would be sub-atomic. The laser has a femtosecond pulse width, and a wavelength that probably isn't too far from the optical range. The scale of the devices that could be produced would range from micrometer to nanometer, though probably in the hundreds of nanometers. I believe you are correct that printing is going to be huge. I'm not sure about changing the dynamics of the entire capitalist system, unless they can print things like food, cars, or buildings, with the cost of the "ink" being less that the cost of conventional materials and associated labor.

*giggle* see even I make errors. You are correct. Nanoscale is what I meant. Reading while you type leads to interesting typos, no?

And I've had this discussion about printers before Niner. At the moment it looks quite likely printing will indeed be used to make food, cars and buildings by the end of the decade, as tissue printers already exist, 3D printers could be made any size, and a prototype "building" printer has been suggested for making structures on the moon and mars which could just as easily be put to use on Earth as well.

What will change those dynamics is that as more and more items are printed, costs will plummet, customization will proliferate, and more pressure will be put on manufacturers to split manufacturing off to third parties and become just design studios. Eventually as prices continue to fall due to massively increased competition from open source and DIY designers, home manufacturing will become the only way to remain even marginally profitable.

The thing is, there's a pretty good chance that nanotech will come along even before all of this has a chance to happen and make it obsolete.

Edited by valkyrie_ice, 18 May 2010 - 04:42 AM.

[niner]

And I've had this discussion about printers before Niner. At the moment it looks quite likely printing will indeed be used to make food, cars and buildings by the end of the decade, as tissue printers already exist, 3D printers could be made any size, and a prototype "building" printer has been suggested for making structures on the moon and mars which could just as easily be put to use on Earth as well.

What will change those dynamics is that as more and more items are printed, costs will plummet, customization will proliferate, and more pressure will be put on manufacturers to split manufacturing off to third parties and become just design studios. Eventually as prices continue to fall due to massively increased competition from open source and DIY designers, home manufacturing will become the only way to remain even marginally profitable.

The thing is, there's a pretty good chance that nanotech will come along even before all of this has a chance to happen and make it obsolete.

With tissue printers, you could in principle print a steak, but it would be so insanely expensive that it would make Kobe beef look cheap. To print something like a car, the "ink" would have to be incredibly sophisticated. You would need high strength structural polymers, along with materials that could replace metals in some very tough applications. I can imagine ways to implement some of this, but the kinds of sophisticated specialty chemicals that would be involved aren't the sort of thing that can be made cheaply, even in large quantities. The materials requirement for a house are so much less structurally demanding that I could see that happening sooner. I bet the way it would work in practice would be a combination of printing and conventional home-building technology; i.e. I bet it would be cheaper to use conventional electrical and plumbing instead of printing it, though you might print the bulk structure of the house. You'd probably also install conventional windows. It's not that it would be impossible to print the trickier stuff, just economically infeasible.

I consider it amazing enough that we will be able to print televisions and organs.

[valkyrie_ice]

With tissue printers, you could in principle print a steak, but it would be so insanely expensive that it would make Kobe beef look cheap. To print something like a car, the "ink" would have to be incredibly sophisticated. You would need high strength structural polymers, along with materials that could replace metals in some very tough applications. I can imagine ways to implement some of this, but the kinds of sophisticated specialty chemicals that would be involved aren't the sort of thing that can be made cheaply, even in large quantities. The materials requirement for a house are so much less structurally demanding that I could see that happening sooner. I bet the way it would work in practice would be a combination of printing and conventional home-building technology; i.e. I bet it would be cheaper to use conventional electrical and plumbing instead of printing it, though you might print the bulk structure of the house. You'd probably also install conventional windows. It's not that it would be impossible to print the trickier stuff, just economically infeasible.

I consider it amazing enough that we will be able to print televisions and organs.

If you look elsewhere in this thread you will see that graphene has proven to be a superior material for building things as well. Combined with ultracapacitance batteries, hub mounted motors and a printer capable of laser sintering for the few parts that absolutely have to be metal, then yes I can easily see every part of a car being made by a printer, with only minimal assembly required. Using Graphene (single atomic layer printers already exist) and resin, ninety percent of a car could be built from two materials. No need for extremely complex "specialty chemicals" Graphene would also be a good choice for the construction of the hub motors as well.

As for bioprinting, that is RIGHT NOW. but based on numerous other developments, such as the ability to grow synthetic blood from stem cells. I am led to believe that in ten years, the cost to mass produce bio tissue should drop precipitously. I've argued this extensively here: http://www.hplusmaga...hange-our-lives

As for windows? Who needs windows when every wall of your house is a display screen? From inside, your house could have glass walls. And and the building printer is here: http://www.cbsnews.c...in2487598.shtml It's old news, so I expect to hear it being finished in five years or so.

I'm not even bothering to look at the costs of doing it NOW using widely available materials. I;m looking at how much it will cost THEN using materials that should be widely available THEN.

[niner]

With tissue printers, you could in principle print a steak, but it would be so insanely expensive that it would make Kobe beef look cheap. To print something like a car, the "ink" would have to be incredibly sophisticated. You would need high strength structural polymers, along with materials that could replace metals in some very tough applications. I can imagine ways to implement some of this, but the kinds of sophisticated specialty chemicals that would be involved aren't the sort of thing that can be made cheaply, even in large quantities. The materials requirement for a house are so much less structurally demanding that I could see that happening sooner. I bet the way it would work in practice would be a combination of printing and conventional home-building technology; i.e. I bet it would be cheaper to use conventional electrical and plumbing instead of printing it, though you might print the bulk structure of the house. You'd probably also install conventional windows. It's not that it would be impossible to print the trickier stuff, just economically infeasible.

I consider it amazing enough that we will be able to print televisions and organs.

If you look elsewhere in this thread you will see that graphene has proven to be a superior material for building things as well. Combined with ultracapacitance batteries, hub mounted motors and a printer capable of laser sintering for the few parts that absolutely have to be metal, then yes I can easily see every part of a car being made by a printer, with only minimal assembly required. Using Graphene (single atomic layer printers already exist) and resin, ninety percent of a car could be built from two materials. No need for extremely complex "specialty chemicals" Graphene would also be a good choice for the construction of the hub motors as well..

But a resin capable of being printed and forming a solid with the necessary properties *is* a specialty chemical, and isn't cheap. Graphene would probably be in the same expense ballpark as carbon fibers that are now used in things like high-end mountain bike handlebars. It's hard to imagine a nanomaterial like that ever being cheap, though prices will surely drop at least some. I think there will be a long period of time where printing will be used heavily for prototyping, but when it comes to mass-produced commodity items, other manufacturing methods will be a lot cheaper. I think high-value, high complexity items like organs are where the technology will really shine. I just learned today that a guy I know who lives around the corner had a freaking kidney transplant! He's going to be on immunosuppressants for the rest of his life. I told him about organ printing today.

[Reno]

I think there will be a long period of time where printing will be used heavily for prototyping, but when it comes to mass-produced commodity items, other manufacturing methods will be a lot cheaper. I think high-value, high complexity items like organs are where the technology will really shine. I just learned today that a guy I know who lives around the corner had a freaking kidney transplant! He's going to be on immunosuppressants for the rest of his life. I told him about organ printing today.

I agree. I did the same for a friend in NYC a few years back. He was being treated for hogkins limphoma, and I was trying to give him hope by suggesting he get into the rexin-g trials. I can remember myself saying cancer would be a memory in a few years. He laughed and told me the pharmaceutical companies would never let it get to the public. They make too much money off the treatment of the disease to cure it. He died a few months later, and now a few years after the fact I'm starting to agree with him. It'll take a huge revolution in the way we manufacture, copyright, or govern ourselves before we will really start seeing real advances in life extension.

[niner]

I think there will be a long period of time where printing will be used heavily for prototyping, but when it comes to mass-produced commodity items, other manufacturing methods will be a lot cheaper. I think high-value, high complexity items like organs are where the technology will really shine. I just learned today that a guy I know who lives around the corner had a freaking kidney transplant! He's going to be on immunosuppressants for the rest of his life. I told him about organ printing today.

I agree. I did the same for a friend in NYC a few years back. He was being treated for hogkins limphoma, and I was trying to give him hope by suggesting he get into the rexin-g trials. I can remember myself saying cancer would be a memory in a few years. He laughed and told me the pharmaceutical companies would never let it get to the public. They make too much money off the treatment of the disease to cure it. He died a few months later, and now a few years after the fact I'm starting to agree with him. It'll take a huge revolution in the way we manufacture, copyright, or govern ourselves before we will really start seeing real advances in life extension.

I've had two friends die of Hodgkins. One was 13, the other was 30. I hope you don't go down that paranoid path about the pharmas suppressing cures. For a number of reasons, that isn't going to happen. We haven't cured cancer yet because it's a really tough constellation of diseases. It's just a hard problem. I suspect we will continue chipping away at it for years, with some significant advances thrown in here and there. I doubt it will ever be a memory, but I hope it's largely controllable within my lifetime. On the outside chance that my lifetime is as long as the name of this place suggests, then yes, I expect a cure.

[valkyrie_ice]

It'll take a huge revolution in the way we manufacture, copyright, or govern ourselves before we will really start seeing real advances in life extension.

If everything I have written in this thread and others haven't illustrated that such a revolution is already beginning, I don't know what else to tell you.

I can only point out what I see and where I see it going.

Regardless, I have a new article published on H+:

http://www.hplusmaga...-welcome-tweens