72 replies to this topic

[protoject]

I wonder if these effects also occur with Centrophenoxine and Alpha GPC.

It appears that they occur with Alpha GPC:

Farmaco Sci. 1986 Apr;41(4):325-34.
Changes in the interaction between CNS cholinergic and dopaminergic neurons induced by L-alpha-glycerylphosphorylcholine, a cholinomimetic drug.
Trabucchi M, Govoni S, Battaini F.

The present study investigates the cholinomimetic properties of the drug L-alpha-glycerylphosphorylcholine (alpha-GPC) at CNS level. Experiments using tritium labelled alpha-GPC indicate that the drug reaches the brain after i.p. and per os administration. In order to study the cholinomimetic properties of this drug an indirect functional index of cholinergic activation was used. In fact cholinergic agonists induce an activation of striatal dopaminergic output. alpha-GPC both i.p. and per os administered increased striatal dihydroxyphenylacetic acid (DOPAC) content. In addition, the in vitro K+ stimulated dopamine release was increased in rats treated in vivo with alpha-GPC. Since alpha-GPC has a weak displacing activity in QNB binding, the in vivo cholinergic activity might be due to the fact that this drug may increase the availability of choline for acetylcholine synthesis leading to increased acetylcholine production. This activity may be useful in those situations such as aging in which cholinergic activity is deficient.

When starting GPC recently, I didn't give it really any time by itself. Has anyone been able to notice anything like a dopaminergic response to GPC or CDP?

To CDP, yes. I haven't tried Alpha-GPC alone so not sure. But with CDP I get a tingling in my head and a focus and drive that's reminsecent of my experiences with drugs that release dopamine and norepinephrine or agonise the same receptors, such as dexedrine, etc. However, there is no crash or dysphoria. Also the beneficial effects became more over time, because at first I would get tired or even depressed, which is normal but the CDP seemed not to be helping with that , but now it is. Also I realize that I feel a lot better if I am doing something productive and responsible while on it. It's like all the benefits then shine and make themselves more apparent.

Has anyone experienced long term benefits in the "focus" area from citicoline?

Has anyone experienced long term benefits in the "focus" area from citicoline?

CDP Choline gives me wicked ACh headaches (I think this is with the combination of ALCAR).

I'd recommend for anyone who doesn't get any effect from CDP choline to try boosting their dose if they do not get side effects [my maximum would be 2g though you probably wouldn't need to do that all the time]. Personally I tried to go along with the "more doesn't mean better" approach but notice that every time I take a little bit more in the middle of the day it definitely effects me more positively.

What dose are you using? How much is 'a little bit more'?

my Max dose 2g, my usual is 1 g.
So usually I'll take a g in the morning, and might take up to another g some time half way into the day.

That's pretty hardcore. Fights lethargy and low motivation I bet.

Actually I find it works very well in work situations. I can't tell you how perfectly I did the last 3 contract jobs I went to. My employer even noticed a difference. One night we worked a full 10 hours but I could have easily gone for another 4 or 5.

usually my thinking is kind of chaotic and all over the place. With CDP choline it is still chaotic and all over the place but I am more frequently able to organize and act upon different elements in the chaos. My energy level , motivation and ability to sustain focus is also increased. Personally I find CDP choline to have a mood-stabilizing element that helps me to be more logical.

Edited by protoject, 25 November 2011 - 10:51 PM.

[thedevinroy]

Has anyone experienced long term benefits in the "focus" area from citicoline?

Has anyone experienced long term benefits in the "focus" area from citicoline?

CDP Choline gives me wicked ACh headaches (I think this is with the combination of ALCAR).

I'd recommend for anyone who doesn't get any effect from CDP choline to try boosting their dose if they do not get side effects [my maximum would be 2g though you probably wouldn't need to do that all the time]. Personally I tried to go along with the "more doesn't mean better" approach but notice that every time I take a little bit more in the middle of the day it definitely effects me more positively.

What dose are you using? How much is 'a little bit more'?

my Max dose 2g, my usual is 1 g.
So usually I'll take a g in the morning, and might take up to another g some time half way into the day.

That's pretty hardcore. Fights lethargy and low motivation I bet.

Actually I find it works very well in work situations. I can't tell you how perfectly I did the last 3 contract jobs I went to. My employer even noticed a difference. One night we worked a full 10 hours but I could have easily gone for another 4 or 5.

usually my thinking is kind of chaotic and all over the place. With CDP choline it is still chaotic and all over the place but I am more frequently able to organize and act upon different elements in the chaos. My energy level , motivation and ability to sustain focus is also increased. Personally I find CDP choline to have a mood-stabilizing element that helps me to be more logical.

Dopamine/ACh receptors, dopamine release, citidine, and methyl donors... all potentially have antidepressant effects.

[chrisp2]

I fear I have dopamine receptor de-sensitization... So I want to make sure:

1) It is believed that CDP Choline increases receptor density - meaning de-sensitized neurons could be helped to "nurse" back to normal health.
2) CDP Choline does NOT act to increase dopamine (Which concerns me because that would work against my desire to "repair" my desensitization)

Appreciate any thoughts you folks have

[MrHappy]

CDP breaks down into uridine. Uridine increases dopamine receptor densities. It also modulates dopamine levels. Uridine, as a supplement, is more effective than CDP. It also replenishes neural lipid membranes (PC pathway) and synaptogenesis, when combined with choline and DHA.

[chrisp2]

CDP breaks down into uridine. Uridine increases dopamine receptor densities. It also modulates dopamine levels. Uridine, as a supplement, is more effective than CDP. It also replenishes neural lipid membranes (PC pathway) and synaptogenesis, when combined with choline and DHA.

Thank you.

There's a thread at:

http://www.longecity...ne-uridine-dha/

Which I'm sure you're aware. It's 39 pages though and a bit difficult for me to digest it all.

When you say "it also modulates dopamine levels". What does that mean really? Does it mean the pre-synaptic nerve is going to release more DA?

I'm looking to heal what I think is my downregulated DA receptors so I have concerns about putting more DA into the synapse.

Thanks again for taking the time above to guide me.

[MrHappy]

<chuckle> Yes, I'm quite familiar with that thread..

To answer your question, both.

It basically tries to normalise both ends of the equation, so receptor density and DA production.

The study which tested it against haloperidol and a few other substances showed the ability to modulate DA production in both directions.
The rat studies from Wurtman, et al. showed increased receptors, amongst other restorative benefits.

Does wonders for bipolar disorder and alzheimers, as you might anticipate.

You should be taking it with folate / folic acid/ l-methylfolate at the very least, but I'd suggest best restorative effects will be seen when combined with the whole spectrum of cofactors.

[JChief]

<chuckle> Yes, I'm quite familiar with that thread..

.. MrHappy was the OP

[welp]

<chuckle> Yes, I'm quite familiar with that thread..

To answer your question, both.

It basically tries to normalise both ends of the equation, so receptor density and DA production.

The study which tested it against haloperidol and a few other substances showed the ability to modulate DA production in both directions.
The rat studies from Wurtman, et al. showed increased receptors, amongst other restorative benefits.

Does wonders for bipolar disorder and alzheimers, as you might anticipate.

You should be taking it with folate / folic acid/ l-methylfolate at the very least, but I'd suggest best restorative effects will be seen when combined with the whole spectrum of cofactors.

When you say cofactors. What does this mean in a specific sense?

[MrHappy]

Yes, I'm quite familiar with that thread..

To answer your question, both.

It basically tries to normalise both ends of the equation, so receptor density and DA production.

The study which tested it against haloperidol and a few other substances showed the ability to modulate DA production in both directions.
The rat studies from Wurtman, et al. showed increased receptors, amongst other restorative benefits.

Does wonders for bipolar disorder and alzheimers, as you might anticipate.

You should be taking it with folate / folic acid/ l-methylfolate at the very least, but I'd suggest best restorative effects will be seen when combined with the whole spectrum of cofactors.

When you say cofactors. What does this mean in a specific sense?

Specific micronutrients that will be required to facilitate some of the effects:
B vitamins
Choline
DHA + EPA
Vitamin E
Trace minerals

More info in the main thread. I don't want to derail this one.

[the_apollo]

Do note that the words "aging mice"/"aging" was used in the first mentioned article,,
It there ANY information regarding Citicholine and it's effect on adults ?

[Strangelove]

Anyone megadosing on CDP choline for some time? I am wondering if the increased ache/dopamine receptor densities would be even more prominent with high/long term dosing?

 

Probably not, but I would like to hear from anyone with large (at least 2gr) long term doses.

 

Any ideas about possible side effects from large doses?

 

Also, do you agree that sublingual gives better effects? I am getting better effects from bulk powders that I dissolve in a glass of water, only because I swirl it in my mouth before I drink it.

[Mr Serendipity]

I've got loads of this stuff but don't use it. Reason being is gives me major insomnia and OCD symptoms.

 

Teach me to buy in bulk before testing it first.

[Area-1255]

That's fine, but the thing is...it doesn't say whether it's just D(2)Receptors or if other receptors in the same family are also affected...have we ever done any research on something that improves D3/D4 receptor densities......?

D2R's certainly are beneficial from a neuroendocrine perspective, and as far as regulating prolactin, neuropeptides etc....but D3/D4 receptor agonists show more anti-depressant response.

Also, there's no mention as to if it's the autoreceptors;aka D2S OR D2L  - that is something I'd like to know.

 

AS WOULD MANY>Lack of specificity.

Edited by Area-1255, 18 December 2014 - 02:24 AM.