I'll keep all your suggestions in mind... especially:
organize all of these materials in a big outline
LongeCityAdvocacy & Research for Unlimited Lifespans
Adverts help to support the work of this non-profit organisation. To go ad-free join as a Member.
1 votes
ImmInst Documentary Film Project
Started by
bacopa
, May 04 2004 03:10 PM
272 replies to this topic
sponsored ad
-
- Advert
#214
-
- Life Member
- 1,085 posts
- 3 ₮
Posted 12 May 2005 - 10:17 AM
Excellent Preview Thanks Bruce!!!!
After seeing it, LifeMirage became a LifeTime member.
Would like to suggest the following:
Close up shot of young and old cells.
Close ups of various animal studies showing a life extension effects by either diet (CR), gene therapy, or biopharmaceuticals (deprenyl), including author conclusions.
Also perhaps mentioning the FDA’s allowance of the condition MCI (Mild Cognitive Impairment) as a disease which will open up more research and drugs for brain aging.
After seeing it, LifeMirage became a LifeTime member.
Would like to suggest the following:
Close up shot of young and old cells.
Close ups of various animal studies showing a life extension effects by either diet (CR), gene therapy, or biopharmaceuticals (deprenyl), including author conclusions.
Also perhaps mentioning the FDA’s allowance of the condition MCI (Mild Cognitive Impairment) as a disease which will open up more research and drugs for brain aging.
#217
-
- Guest
- 57 posts
- 1 ₮
- Location:Pacific North West
Posted 13 May 2005 - 09:04 AM
Bruce was just here on Tuesday to film me and we had a great time and both thought we got some good footage despite dodging the rain. Heh, rain in Washington?, go figure. 
He's a very cool guy in person and my family members were all very impressed. My stepfather has met other Immortalists when he drove me to the Alcor 4 Conference in Monterey Calif., the only conference I've been able to attend because flying is extremely difficult due to airline rules, and the ones I refer to were pre 9/11 so who knows how bad those rules are now. Anyway I got the feeling it was very good for the rest of my family to meet another Immortalist in person other than myself to get a better impression of what we are like, IOW fairly decent people.
That may seem odd to say. My famiily, though they love me well enough, have a certain opinion of me due to how I got hurt and the reckless way I lived life when younger and the types of friends I had. Add to that the fact that they are Xian fundies and what you get is an opinion of my conversion from xian fundie to athiest that ranges from 'adle minded' to 'lost his mind' to 'the devil is influencing his mind'.
It took years for my mother to even accept that I had given up on religion, actually denying that I meant what I was saying. I'd say, "I'm an atheist", "No you're not", she'd retort. I felt like maybe she thought it was just a phase I'd get over eventually or temporary or even permanent insanity that I could be forgiven for. But my partcular insanity included wanting to live forever on my own terms despite the existence or not of god. To see that someone as together and nice as Bruce has the same ideas as I do is good for them to see.
As I said we had a great time, but the time was way too short and had me flitting rapidly from subject to subject as I tried to cram hundreds of thoughts about ideas and certain life stories and situations and whatever into just 13 hours.
Oh and one more thing, Bruce you're much too polite. Just after you left my mother came back to my room and said to me, "That poor man, he slept the whole night through with the light on. I went to turn it off and there's something wrong with the switch. Please tell him I'm so terribly sorry."
You should have woken someone up or twisted the bulb out, we wouldn't have chastised you, honest.
So folks as you can see he's a model guest so help him save a few of the costs for lodging for his trip and invite him to stay with you when he's in town. This probably goes without saying but I don't mind stating the obvious sometimes but only once in a while.
James
He's a very cool guy in person and my family members were all very impressed. My stepfather has met other Immortalists when he drove me to the Alcor 4 Conference in Monterey Calif., the only conference I've been able to attend because flying is extremely difficult due to airline rules, and the ones I refer to were pre 9/11 so who knows how bad those rules are now. Anyway I got the feeling it was very good for the rest of my family to meet another Immortalist in person other than myself to get a better impression of what we are like, IOW fairly decent people.That may seem odd to say. My famiily, though they love me well enough, have a certain opinion of me due to how I got hurt and the reckless way I lived life when younger and the types of friends I had. Add to that the fact that they are Xian fundies and what you get is an opinion of my conversion from xian fundie to athiest that ranges from 'adle minded' to 'lost his mind' to 'the devil is influencing his mind'.
It took years for my mother to even accept that I had given up on religion, actually denying that I meant what I was saying. I'd say, "I'm an atheist", "No you're not", she'd retort. I felt like maybe she thought it was just a phase I'd get over eventually or temporary or even permanent insanity that I could be forgiven for. But my partcular insanity included wanting to live forever on my own terms despite the existence or not of god. To see that someone as together and nice as Bruce has the same ideas as I do is good for them to see.
As I said we had a great time, but the time was way too short and had me flitting rapidly from subject to subject as I tried to cram hundreds of thoughts about ideas and certain life stories and situations and whatever into just 13 hours.
Oh and one more thing, Bruce you're much too polite. Just after you left my mother came back to my room and said to me, "That poor man, he slept the whole night through with the light on. I went to turn it off and there's something wrong with the switch. Please tell him I'm so terribly sorry."
You should have woken someone up or twisted the bulb out, we wouldn't have chastised you, honest.
So folks as you can see he's a model guest so help him save a few of the costs for lodging for his trip and invite him to stay with you when he's in town. This probably goes without saying but I don't mind stating the obvious sometimes but only once in a while.
James
#220
-
- Guardian Founder
- 8,794 posts
- 242 ₮
- Location:United States
Posted 14 May 2005 - 03:26 PM
Thank you, LifeMirage!
Heh, James.. I'm used to sleeping anywhere now (a nice soft bed is great compared to the back of my car) so please let your mom know I had many sweet immortalist dreams.
Adi, or you shall visit your brother!
To see the film preview, please email your physical street address to my email: bjk@imminst.org
Film feedback is very welcome as I will make improvements for the final version in Nov at our conference.
Heh, James.. I'm used to sleeping anywhere now (a nice soft bed is great compared to the back of my car) so please let your mom know I had many sweet immortalist dreams.
Adi, or you shall visit your brother!
To see the film preview, please email your physical street address to my email: bjk@imminst.org
Film feedback is very welcome as I will make improvements for the final version in Nov at our conference.
#221
-
- Guest
- 3,322 posts
- 11 ₮
- Location:Israel (originally from Amsterdam, Holland)
Posted 14 May 2005 - 04:53 PM
Adi, or you shall visit your brother!
As soon as I can, dear Bruce, aye.
Hmm, after I see the film preview I'll let you know my opinion, should be great I believe.
We shall see...
Yours truthfully
~Infernity
#223
-
- Guest
- 3,322 posts
- 11 ₮
- Location:Israel (originally from Amsterdam, Holland)
Posted 14 May 2005 - 09:04 PM
Alex,
Yours truthfully
~Infernity
So yet, only members can see it. It is still not perfectly done, I mean we can still add credit for last changes, I think...Bruce, why spend money on the postage, when you can simply put it on the site?
Yours truthfully
~Infernity
#225
-
- Guest
- 2,865 posts
- 152 ₮
- Location:United Kingdom
- NO
Posted 14 May 2005 - 10:04 PM
Bruce, why spend money on the postage, when you can simply put it on the site?
Thats what I thought.
Even tho I wouldn't file share unfinished work and neither would any other member here ( i think ) , it can easily be converted to another file format other than the .vobSo yet, only members can see it.
Im sure he must have plenty of bandwidth on the ftp [mellow]Because bandwidth isn't free either
#229
-
- Guest
- 291 posts
- 0 ₮
Posted 17 May 2005 - 09:16 PM
One thing I found deeply affecting about the preview was the interview with (I believe) the head of LEF, where he says something to the effect that "We sent a survey out to ask scientists when we could cure aging, if we had the funding, and they said about 2015, which was surprising, because I had thought it would be 2030."
That one segment was extremely powerful to me. Because even if both of them are off by a few decades, the point is that, contra most people, they are not off by centuries. We are amazingly, dangerously close to curing aging, whether that happens in 2015 or 2080. In that interview clip, the man doesn't come off as a zealous member of the fringe trying to proselytize. You get the faint impression that he doesn't even care whether the audience believes him or not, and that's what makes him so believable. Instead, the impression he conveys is one of profound sadness. He almost seems resigned to the extravagent folly of human inaction in the face of involuntary death. I tend to think this segment would make an excellent closing to the documentary: instead of leaving people all jazzed-up and ready to engage in activism, leave the audience with a touch of guilt for not having done something sooner, for leaving just a few people like the head of LEF to wage this huge war against death, all on their own. Leave them with that haunting quote.
I can't wait to see the rest of the documentary...
That one segment was extremely powerful to me. Because even if both of them are off by a few decades, the point is that, contra most people, they are not off by centuries. We are amazingly, dangerously close to curing aging, whether that happens in 2015 or 2080. In that interview clip, the man doesn't come off as a zealous member of the fringe trying to proselytize. You get the faint impression that he doesn't even care whether the audience believes him or not, and that's what makes him so believable. Instead, the impression he conveys is one of profound sadness. He almost seems resigned to the extravagent folly of human inaction in the face of involuntary death. I tend to think this segment would make an excellent closing to the documentary: instead of leaving people all jazzed-up and ready to engage in activism, leave the audience with a touch of guilt for not having done something sooner, for leaving just a few people like the head of LEF to wage this huge war against death, all on their own. Leave them with that haunting quote.
I can't wait to see the rest of the documentary...
#230
-
- Guest
- 439 posts
- -1 ₮
- Location:New York City/ Hoboken, N.J.
Posted 23 May 2005 - 04:09 PM
I just lost a lengthy post I wrote because I made the mistake of clicking "Track this Topic" before hitting submit.
It is important to keep all footage shot. The many people interviewed for this project will rise and fall in status. Some may well become world famous by accomplishing something incredible.
In five, ten or twenty years, Bruce's interviews (some) may be journalistic gems. They could serve as great resources for people making future documentaries on this movement.
Far too often, those making history don't take the time to record themselves making it.
We should also have extensive video records of our first convention. Those filming for Imminst should cover as much as possible. For that matter, I think we should encourage everyone to bring their video cameras and contribute copies of material they shoot to a film/video archive.
It is important to keep all footage shot. The many people interviewed for this project will rise and fall in status. Some may well become world famous by accomplishing something incredible.
In five, ten or twenty years, Bruce's interviews (some) may be journalistic gems. They could serve as great resources for people making future documentaries on this movement.
Far too often, those making history don't take the time to record themselves making it.
We should also have extensive video records of our first convention. Those filming for Imminst should cover as much as possible. For that matter, I think we should encourage everyone to bring their video cameras and contribute copies of material they shoot to a film/video archive.
#231
-
- Admin, Advisor, Director
- 9,154 posts
- 587 ₮
- Location:UK
- ✔
Posted 23 May 2005 - 04:57 PM
The preview arrived a couple of days ago, and I finally got a chance to watch it on Mondey's comp.
First, thanks for listing to the suggestions we made in December. Instead of talking faces, the preview looks much more like a film now. Most non-interview scenes were really well chosen. Most of these are really well done especially considering your limited manpower, experience and budget. I'm surprised how nice this came out thus far!
Some suggestions:
1) As others have suggested, the final product will need a more stringed narrative, something with an exposition and -if possible- a plot.
2) Some of the voicefades are a bit awkward, check to connect voice and scene, I'd suggest no more than two cuts per thematic issue.
3) Some of the non-interview scenes are rather without context. (e.g. the really nice cityshot). The leaf in the water is rather sympathetic to the Kass case.
3) Are you sure about EVERY IP right? The pictures from the internet, music etc all need to be cleared. You'll need to source them in the credits.
4) I'd not use BJKlein as an interviewee. You could be a commentator or an interviewer, but mixing the role of filmmaker and contributor is not ideal.
What you could do is use yourself much more in that role. (documentary Moore style) I.e.: This is me, I'm having these questions, I hit the road to talk to all these people...
5) Tune done on the proselytizing. Towards the end of the preview you are laying on a bit thick. The nice thing about films is that you can make a really strong point with the right composition and pictures without having to spoon-feed the message.
6) In the preview, there is very little science. You might want to check beck when you do these scenes both with complete amateurs if they get it and with experts whether it is still conveyed accurately.
7) You'll have to decide whether you want this to be indoctrination, introduction, reinforcement, careful analysis, communication with the community, thriller, science docu... depending on your decision, certain things will work others might have to go. I know I'd be nice to be all things to all audiences, but this is unlikely to work.
8) Yes. Me too. Sorry: An alternative title graphic would be nice. It’s a really nice picture, but there is (probably) no connection to the content. The woman is doing yoga and somehow that's precisely not your idea of life extension.
Once again, thanks for sharing, I think you are really on the right track. [thumb]
First, thanks for listing to the suggestions we made in December. Instead of talking faces, the preview looks much more like a film now. Most non-interview scenes were really well chosen. Most of these are really well done especially considering your limited manpower, experience and budget. I'm surprised how nice this came out thus far!
Some suggestions:
1) As others have suggested, the final product will need a more stringed narrative, something with an exposition and -if possible- a plot.
2) Some of the voicefades are a bit awkward, check to connect voice and scene, I'd suggest no more than two cuts per thematic issue.
3) Some of the non-interview scenes are rather without context. (e.g. the really nice cityshot). The leaf in the water is rather sympathetic to the Kass case.
3) Are you sure about EVERY IP right? The pictures from the internet, music etc all need to be cleared. You'll need to source them in the credits.
4) I'd not use BJKlein as an interviewee. You could be a commentator or an interviewer, but mixing the role of filmmaker and contributor is not ideal.
What you could do is use yourself much more in that role. (documentary Moore style) I.e.: This is me, I'm having these questions, I hit the road to talk to all these people...
5) Tune done on the proselytizing. Towards the end of the preview you are laying on a bit thick. The nice thing about films is that you can make a really strong point with the right composition and pictures without having to spoon-feed the message.
6) In the preview, there is very little science. You might want to check beck when you do these scenes both with complete amateurs if they get it and with experts whether it is still conveyed accurately.
7) You'll have to decide whether you want this to be indoctrination, introduction, reinforcement, careful analysis, communication with the community, thriller, science docu... depending on your decision, certain things will work others might have to go. I know I'd be nice to be all things to all audiences, but this is unlikely to work.
8) Yes. Me too. Sorry: An alternative title graphic would be nice. It’s a really nice picture, but there is (probably) no connection to the content. The woman is doing yoga and somehow that's precisely not your idea of life extension.
Once again, thanks for sharing, I think you are really on the right track. [thumb]
#232
-
- Guardian Founder
- 8,794 posts
- 242 ₮
- Location:United States
Posted 23 May 2005 - 05:29 PM
I might even be able to get it on a private 100mb ftp server for you guys...
If you can do that, Matt, that'd be great.
Thanks for all valued suggestions... all shall be compiled and implemented as best as possible in light of limited time and resources. IP rights have been purchased for included footage and cover graphic. Source credit will be documented.
#234
-
- Guest
- 645 posts
- 1 ₮
- Location:Queens, NY
Posted 10 June 2005 - 12:36 PM
Thanks for the preview copy Bruce! [lol]
So far so good... you are accomplishing something I've been wanting to do for a while now. Ideas float in and out of my head and sometimes I just need help to put them into some concrete form.
Anyway, regarding the preview so far, I have really only two suggestions that I don't think have been mentioned thus far.
1. Color. Probably due to lighting conditions and the light temperature of the lamps used, many of the indoor interviews have a distracting red hue to them. While it's best to try and get the color you want while shooting, this is often impossible. You might want to apply some color correction to some of the interviews and desaturate the red a little, while bumping up the blue/green a little to get a more uniform color. Even just a little color correction can go a long way to hold audiences and make transitions less noticeable.
2. Pacing. Overall, it's good, but there were times when the pacing could have been a little tighter. The easiest way is to remove silence from someone's speech while showing a cut-away. There were a few places where you cut to another shot, and then waited till you came back to the person before continuing what they were saying. Overlapping images with interviews is a good way of chopping up what people say so that it's concise and sounds more intelligent than what they might have actually said in real life. In a video I edited recently, one person spoke with A LOT of ums and uhs, but I cut out a lot of the awkward moments and reorganized his sentences so he came out sounding brilliant. (Of course, the only way to do this is to have other things to show, preferably related to what the person's talking about.)
Also, you have intereviewed so many amazing people around the country, I half expected you to have an actual interview with Leon Kass. While that may be difficult to do, let alone stomach for those of you who hate him, having an actual voice for the opposing view would help. Let the audience decided based on the strengths and weaknesses of the arguments themselves. Shown in the right way, I'm sure most people would choose to support radical life extension if they only knew it was possible!!! Remember, our real challenge is not those who oppose us directly. Rather, the real challenge is reaching the masses who are still in the dark about the whole concept.
- Joel
So far so good... you are accomplishing something I've been wanting to do for a while now. Ideas float in and out of my head and sometimes I just need help to put them into some concrete form.
Anyway, regarding the preview so far, I have really only two suggestions that I don't think have been mentioned thus far.
1. Color. Probably due to lighting conditions and the light temperature of the lamps used, many of the indoor interviews have a distracting red hue to them. While it's best to try and get the color you want while shooting, this is often impossible. You might want to apply some color correction to some of the interviews and desaturate the red a little, while bumping up the blue/green a little to get a more uniform color. Even just a little color correction can go a long way to hold audiences and make transitions less noticeable.
2. Pacing. Overall, it's good, but there were times when the pacing could have been a little tighter. The easiest way is to remove silence from someone's speech while showing a cut-away. There were a few places where you cut to another shot, and then waited till you came back to the person before continuing what they were saying. Overlapping images with interviews is a good way of chopping up what people say so that it's concise and sounds more intelligent than what they might have actually said in real life. In a video I edited recently, one person spoke with A LOT of ums and uhs, but I cut out a lot of the awkward moments and reorganized his sentences so he came out sounding brilliant.
(Of course, the only way to do this is to have other things to show, preferably related to what the person's talking about.)Also, you have intereviewed so many amazing people around the country, I half expected you to have an actual interview with Leon Kass. While that may be difficult to do, let alone stomach for those of you who hate him, having an actual voice for the opposing view would help. Let the audience decided based on the strengths and weaknesses of the arguments themselves. Shown in the right way, I'm sure most people would choose to support radical life extension if they only knew it was possible!!! Remember, our real challenge is not those who oppose us directly. Rather, the real challenge is reaching the masses who are still in the dark about the whole concept.
- Joel
#235
-
- Guardian Founder
- 8,794 posts
- 242 ₮
- Location:United States
Posted 10 June 2005 - 03:19 PM
Thanks for the carefully throughout suggestions, Joel. You're right, many of the first interviews have a red hue because this was before ImmInst Full member (Abouali Farmanfarmaian) showed me how to use white balance on the video camera while at an ImmInst meeting in CT last year.
#236
-
- Guest
- 2,865 posts
- 152 ₮
- Location:United Kingdom
- NO
Posted 10 June 2005 - 03:51 PM
Got the copy yesterday, thanks !
I've watched it a few times and the interviews are good but there is just a few things that I feel I need to say;
The pace of the movie
I found that it was a little slow to start and that I didn't enjoy reading all those black screens (although Interesting) they seemed to affect the pace very much. I guess I will call them " Fills " and they seem to be too close to each other and lengthy. I would look more into the organiziation of clips and how well they fit together without slowing things down.
Narrator and a person to take us through the documentary
The introduction needs sorting out and what I would suggest is a person to take the viewers (possibly you bruce) through the documentary. You need to be the one at the start asking the questions at the start " Is immortality a dream? .... Can it be achieved and what would be the implications etc.. Im sure that someone could come up with a great script! You need to be there telling the story in different parts of the documentary, work on finding an awesome location with a nice sunset or something where you can introduce the audience to this journey, you ask the questions, To break it up a bit you could use some visuals and your voice over it as you are introducing us to this documentary. Always try to keep a nice pace on it and use visuals (pref moving visuals that looks awesome or is emotional or relevant)
A good example of a well structured documentary is " What we still don't know - Are we real with Martin Rees". It really gets you thinking, asking questions and wanting to know more.
The narrator needs to come in after you introduced the documentary to also fill in the gaps and ask questions etc ( it makes the audiance think ) Also DON'T or try not to use so many stills and black screens with text.
The interviews are great and I'm sure there are many great ones to come.
Work on structure, settings, * the Fills *, A Narrator and 'you' or someone else taking us through the documentary.
I have Idea's and visuals running through my head right now like crazy! LoL, I hope you understand anything of what I am saying. You want to make an emotional impact as well as an educational
I've watched it a few times and the interviews are good but there is just a few things that I feel I need to say;
The pace of the movie
I found that it was a little slow to start and that I didn't enjoy reading all those black screens (although Interesting) they seemed to affect the pace very much. I guess I will call them " Fills " and they seem to be too close to each other and lengthy. I would look more into the organiziation of clips and how well they fit together without slowing things down.
Narrator and a person to take us through the documentary
The introduction needs sorting out and what I would suggest is a person to take the viewers (possibly you bruce) through the documentary. You need to be the one at the start asking the questions at the start " Is immortality a dream? .... Can it be achieved and what would be the implications etc.. Im sure that someone could come up with a great script! You need to be there telling the story in different parts of the documentary, work on finding an awesome location with a nice sunset or something where you can introduce the audience to this journey, you ask the questions, To break it up a bit you could use some visuals and your voice over it as you are introducing us to this documentary. Always try to keep a nice pace on it and use visuals (pref moving visuals that looks awesome or is emotional or relevant)
A good example of a well structured documentary is " What we still don't know - Are we real with Martin Rees". It really gets you thinking, asking questions and wanting to know more.
The narrator needs to come in after you introduced the documentary to also fill in the gaps and ask questions etc ( it makes the audiance think ) Also DON'T or try not to use so many stills and black screens with text.
The interviews are great and I'm sure there are many great ones to come.
Work on structure, settings, * the Fills *, A Narrator and 'you' or someone else taking us through the documentary.
I have Idea's and visuals running through my head right now like crazy! LoL, I hope you understand anything of what I am saying. You want to make an emotional impact as well as an educational
Edited by Matt, 10 June 2005 - 04:07 PM.
#238
-
- Guest
- 4,724 posts
- 55 ₮
- Location:Melbourne, Australia
Posted 10 June 2005 - 04:15 PM
As far as scientist go......I think there are a few scientists and medical practitioners that frequent these forums. I am a scientist myself working in the field of aging and would be willing to help in any way with research.
I am in Australia though. I will do anything I can to help.
I am in Australia though. I will do anything I can to help.
#239
-
- Guest
- 136 posts
- 0 ₮
Posted 10 June 2005 - 07:07 PM
caliban wrote: "3) Are you sure about EVERY IP right? The pictures from the internet, music etc all need to be cleared. You'll need to source them in the credits. "
You seem to imply that Bruce is using public domain or creative commons-licensed material from the internet. If so, I guess one factor might be whether Bruce is aiming for a commercial market, i.e., to sell the rights for his documentary, or whether it will be copylefted, or something similar.
You seem to imply that Bruce is using public domain or creative commons-licensed material from the internet. If so, I guess one factor might be whether Bruce is aiming for a commercial market, i.e., to sell the rights for his documentary, or whether it will be copylefted, or something similar.
#240
-
- Guest
- 645 posts
- 1 ₮
- Location:Queens, NY
Posted 10 June 2005 - 10:59 PM
Leave all options open. The best thing is to create a documentary worth airing if at all possible. This needs to reach as many people as possible, whether through web distribution, or airing it on whatever station picks it up.You seem to imply that Bruce is using public domain or creative commons-licensed material from the internet. If so, I guess one factor might be whether Bruce is aiming for a commercial market, i.e., to sell the rights for his documentary, or whether it will be copylefted, or something similar.
4 user(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 4 guests, 0 anonymous users
