76 replies to this topic

[utmostcertainty]

Started reading into Nefiracetam. Looks promising. Seems to be implicated in having broader, more far-reaching effects on the mechanisms of memory and cognition than other 'ricetams. Most interesting effect I think are the more intense theta wave spindles in the hippocampus that are found during nefiracetam use which have yet to be paralleled by any other nootropic. An obvious sign of tremendous LTP power. Directly increases intracellular cAMP and Ca2+ concentrations as well.

Some abstracts on Nefiracetam here: http://www.mezziah.c...racetam_raw.htm

And looks like you could get ahold of some here: http://www.chem.co.k...ew&&com_id=1792

What are some other peoples' take on this? LifeMirage?

[LifeMirage]

Have you seen the recent study?

Reprod Toxicol. 2004 May-Jun;18(3):423-30.
Testicular toxicity induced in dogs by nefiracetam, a neutrotransmission enhancer.

Shimomura K, Shimada M, Hagiwara M, Harada S, Kato M, Furuhama K.
Drug Safety Research Laboratory, Daiichi Pharmaceutical Co., Ltd., 1-16-13 Kitakasai, Edogawa-ku, Tokyo 134-8630, Japan.

To investigate mechanisms of the testicular toxicity of nefiracetam and to find sensitive parameters to predict the toxicity, male beagle dogs were orally administered 180 or 300mg/kg per day of the drug once and for 1 and 4 weeks. Time-course changes in serum and/or testicular hormone levels and semen parameters, and testicular morphology were examined. The testicular testosterone level was decreased 4h after single administration of nefiracetam at 300mg/kg per day, but the progesterone level showed no change at that time. The serum testosterone level was decreased after single, 1-week or 2-week treatment. In contrast, the serum estradiol level was increased from 1- to 4-week treatment. No changes in serum LH, FSH and inhibin B levels were observed throughout the experimental period. Decreased sperm motility and increased number of malformed sperms were first observed in semen after 4-week treatment. Histopathological examination of the testis revealed moderate and severe seminiferous atrophy with multinucleated giant cell formation at 180 and 300mg/kg per day, respectively, after 4-week treatment, but not 1-week treatment. These results show that nefiracetam decreases testicular testosterone level in dogs following single oral administration of a high dose, and induces severe morphologic changes after 4-week treatment. This reduction is shown to be a sensitive parameter to detect the toxicity, and is suggested to be induced by the impaired conversion of progesterone to testosterone in Leydig cells.

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=15082078

[utmostcertainty]

Ehhh, that's no good. Nevermind that then lol.

[shpongled]

Started reading into Nefiracetam.  Looks promising.  Seems to be implicated in having broader, more far-reaching effects on the mechanisms of memory and cognition than other 'ricetams.

I wouldn't really put it that way... more appropriately, "It has some unique effects." It does not share some other beneficial effects of some nootropics though (for example, does not potentiate AMPA as aniracetam does).

[mercury]

(for example, does not potentiate AMPA as aniracetam does).

about aniracetam and AMPA, i found this over at the newsgroups.

"Ampakines, like aniracetam, amplify neuronal signaling by stimulating,
and thereby enhancing the receptiveness of AMPA receptors to
glutamate. AMPA receptors, including the other chief glumate
receptor, namely NMDA, are implicated in many actions in the central
nervous system - such as excitotoxicity.

Excessive glutamate activity is conducive to excitotoxicity and
consequently neuronal death. Excitotoxicity is most likely to arise
in young individuals, whose glutamate receptors are healthy and
responsive."

any comments?

[shpongled]

(for example, does not potentiate AMPA as aniracetam does).

about aniracetam and AMPA, i found this over at the newsgroups.

"Ampakines, like aniracetam, amplify neuronal signaling by stimulating,
and thereby enhancing the receptiveness of AMPA receptors to
glutamate. AMPA receptors, including the other chief glumate
receptor, namely NMDA, are implicated in many actions in the central
nervous system - such as excitotoxicity.

Excessive glutamate activity is conducive to excitotoxicity and
consequently neuronal death. Excitotoxicity is most likely to arise
in young individuals, whose glutamate receptors are healthy and
responsive."

any comments?

It's a lot more complicated than that. Here is the simplified version, the article coming out soon goes into a lot more detail:

1. Aniracetam does not directly stimulate AMPA receptors - instead, it slows the rate of desensitization/deactivation in the presence of an agonist, thus amplifying long-term potentiation. It does this allosterically, in other words, it does not directly act at the binding site. It only has an effect in the presence of an agonist. So you can't really compare it to an excitotoxin.

2. Aniracetam is selective at certain types of AMPA receptors, in certain areas of the brain.

3. Aniracetam-induced AMPA receptor activation --> kainate receptor desensitization, serving as a negative feedback mechanism. It is possible that this actually leads to a net reduction of excitotoxicity, since, as mentioned previously, aniracetam does not act as an agonist.

4. One of the metabolites of aniracetam positively modulates group II metabotropic glutamate receptors, and some subtypes of mGlu reduce excitotoxicity.

5. The metabolites of aniracetam have many other effects that could potentially counteract any possible excitotoxicity. Accordingly, the majority of the research shows aniracetam to prevent excitotoxicity. Instead of theories, we actually have information on the endpoint, which on balance is in favor of aniracetam acting as a neuroprotectant.

Also, the contention that excitotoxicity is more likely to occur in young individuals is completely wrong, given that younger individuals have much more going for them in terms of natural defense mechanisms, and older brain cells are more susceptible to injury. This is why neurodegeneration happens relatively quickly, instead of gradually throughout life.

[RicardoW]

Has any one used this Nootropic?

I would appreciate any personal experiences, as well as general information abbot Nefiracetam. I have epilepsy and are currently taking carpamazepine, Nefiracetam seams allot better and are actually effective.

PMID: 15338329

Epilepsia. 2005 Oct;46(10):1561-8.
Effects of Nefiracetam, a novel pyrrolidone-type nootropic agent, on the amygdala-kindled seizures in rats.
Kitano Y, Komiyama C, Makino M, Kasai Y, Takasuna K, Kinoshita M, Yamazaki O, Takazawa A, Yamauchi T, Sakurada S.
New Product Research Laboratories II, Daiichi Pharmaceutical Co., Ltd., Edogawa-ku, Tokyo. kitanpms@daiichipharm.co.jp

PURPOSE: Nefiracetam (NEF) is a novel pyrrolidonetype nootropic agent, and it has been reported to possess various pharmacologic effects as well as cognition-enhancing effects. The present study focused on the effects of NEF in amygdala-kindled seizures and its potential for antiepileptic therapy. METHODs: Effects of NEF on fully amygdala-kindled seizures and development of amygdala-kindled seizures were investigated in rats and compared with those of levetiracetam (LEV), a pyrrolidone-type antiepileptic drug (AED). RESULTS: In fully amygdala-kindled rats, NEF (25, 50, and 100 mg/kg, p.o.) decreased afterdischarge induction, afterdischarge duration, seizure stage, and motor seizure duration in a dose-dependent manner. LEV (25, 50, and 100 mg/kg, p.o.) had no effects on afterdischarge induction and slightly decreased afterdischarge duration, whereas it markedly decreased seizure stage and motor seizure duration. In contrast to the results in fully amygdala-kindled rats, NEF (25 and 50 mg/kg/day, p.o.) had few or no effects on the development of amygdala-kindled seizures. As well as fully amygdala-kindled seizures, LEV (50 mg/kg/day, p.o.) markedly inhibited the development of behavioral seizures without reducing daily afterdischarge duration. CONCLUSIONS: Although NEF possesses potent anticonvulsant effects on fully amygdala-kindled seizures, it has few or no effects on the development of amygdala-kindled seizures. LEV shows marked anticonvulsant effects on both phases of kindling. In fully amygdala-kindled rats, NEF inhibits both electroencephalographic and behavioral seizures, whereas LEV inhibits only behavioral seizures. This double dissociation suggests that NEF has a distinct anticonvulsant spectrum and mechanisms from those of LEV.

[Ben]

Didn't I read something about nefiracetam and it poisoning the testicles?

http://cat.inist.fr/...cpsidt=15678168

[meursault]

I dunno, did you?

To investigate mechanisms of the testicular toxicity of nefiracetam and to find sensitive parameters to predict the toxicity, male beagle dogs were orally administered 180 or 300 mg/kg per day of the drug once and for 1 and 4 weeks. Time-course changes in serum and/or testicular hormone levels and semen parameters, and testicular morphology were examined. The testicular testosterone level was decreased 4 h after single administration of nefiracetam at 300 mg/kg per day, but the progesterone level showed no change at that time. The serum testosterone level was decreased after single, 1-week or 2-week treatment. In contrast, the serum estradiol level was increased from 1- to 4-week treatment. No changes in serum LH, FSH and inhibin B levels were observed throughout the experimental period. Decreased sperm motility and increased number of malformed sperms were first observed in semen after 4-week treatment. Histopathological examination of the testis revealed moderate and severe seminiferous atrophy with multinucleated giant cell formation at 180 and 300 mg/kg per day, respectively, after 4-week treatment, but not 1-week treatment. These results show that nefiracetam decreases testicular testosterone level in dogs following single oral administration of a high dose, and induces severe morphologic changes after 4-week treatment. This reduction is shown to be a sensitive parameter to detect the toxicity, and is suggested to be induced by the impaired conversion of progesterone to testosterone in Leydig cells.

"No changes in serum LH, FSH and inhibin B levels were observed throughout the experimental period." This drug isn't even affecting main hormones of the endocrine system, so it should be pretty easy to increase testosterone through the diet.

Laying out the conversion, if you weigh 180 pounds, and take 180mg/kg, this evens up being about 14.7 grams per day. I don't know many people around here that even take much piracetam daily. Now, of course dogs and humans are not equivalent in any pathological sense, but I don't believe nefiracetam can be written off so easily based on this one study.

Edited by czukles, 01 July 2008 - 01:13 AM.

[luv2increase]

I wouldn't touch the stuff.

A 'true' nootropic shouldn't be toxic at all. Nefiracetam doesn't fit this description.

[RicardoW]

I'm not sure that's really relevant as czukles are saying 300 mg/kg would be a massive dos. And I don't think that piracetam is completely non toxic in any dos nether.

Any way this testicular thing is enough to scare most men away. But for me this is not something I consider doing because its fun. I see Nefiracetam as a possible, side effect free, treatment for my epilepsy.

I have considered trying Piracetam to, maybe it can be combined with regular treatment in order to get les side effects. But used solitaire it's not that good for epilepsy.

J Neural Transm. 2004 Sep;111(9):1121-39.
Effects of piracetam alone and in combination with antiepileptic drugs in rodent seizure models.
Fischer W, Kittner H, Regenthal R, Russo E, De Sarro G.
Rudolf-Boehm-Institute of Pharmacology and Toxicology, University of Leipzig, Germany. fisw@medizin.uni-leipzig.de

The nootropic drug piracetam was investigated in various experimental models of epilepsy. Generally, piracetam exhibits no or only moderate anticonvulsant properties against generalized tonic or clonic seizures. However, in many cases it did increase the anticonvulsant effectiveness of conventional antiepileptics, as shown in the maximal electroshock seizure (MES) threshold test, the traditional MES test or in DBA/2 mice. A pharmacokinetic interaction does not seem to be responsible for this effect. In lethargic mice, a model of absence seizures, piracetam significantly decreased the incidence and duration of spike-wave discharges. Furthermore, in the cobalt-induced focal epilepsy model piracetam reduced the number of spikes/min and in the hippocampal stimulation model it increased the anticonvulsant potency of phenobarbital and phenytoin after single and repeated administration. In conclusion, the well tolerated piracetam itself did not show marked anticonvulsant effects in most screening tests, however, its co-medication with antiepileptic drugs improved seizure protection in various models which may bear potential clinical significance.

Levetiracetam on the other hand is a successfully used as an AED, and are a derivate of Piracetam, unfortunately it has all the typical side effects.
Are there any other "smart drugs" that improves epilepsy? I don't really care if it's a big monthly expense.

Take care
//Ricardo

Edited by RicardoW, 01 July 2008 - 05:00 PM.

[mystery]

It's not exactly a smart drug, but I noticed this from the epilepsy wikipedia article:

Many epileptics have found that marijuana is an effective medical treatment of epilepsy, and a telephone survey conducted in 2003 revealed that more than twice as many epileptics use marijuana than the general population.

[RicardoW]

I have considered marijuana to unfortunately I don’t like this drug, I yeast find the typical high to be very boring. On the other hand I don’t know how much a person with epilepsy need to smoke, maybe it’s a lot less than what makes some on high.

[nancy_axel]

Where does one buy nefiracetam? (The other post - CNW/UN doesn't have it). Any good stacks? I've heard aniracetam synergizes well with nefiracetam. I'm stacking to minimize the amount of nefiracetam used (to prevent any type of toxicity -- so far I've heard about testicular isses .. but who knows what it can do to a chick) . I've also heard that its easy to gain tolerance to nefiracetam, can any experienced user tell me anything about that ..

Edited by nancy_axel, 08 October 2008 - 10:19 PM.

[luv2increase]

Where does one buy nefiracetam?

From anyplace where it is sold.

Any good stacks?

What do you mean?

I've heard aniracetam synergizes well with nefiracetam. I've also heard that its easy to gain tolerance to nefiracetam ..

Where did you hear that from?

[nancy_axel]

Anyone have any good dosing and (human) half life info?

[nancy_axel]

Where does one buy nefiracetam?

From anyplace where it is sold.

Any good stacks?

What do you mean?

I've heard aniracetam synergizes well with nefiracetam. I've also heard that its easy to gain tolerance to nefiracetam ..

Where did you hear that from?

Ah, well if it isn't Luv. Listen buddy, if you can't answer the question don't post a reply: A question like .. where can I buy nefiracetam? Your response: Wherever it is sold. haha, you can't be serious .. you really should get a job . (hopefully your reply won't be that you indeed have a job and yada yada .. thanks).

I bet you would 'Luv 2 Increase' to make up for your limitations in more areas than one . If it makes you feel bigger where it counts, you can go on trying to mess with my posts -- its certainly one way to deal with some of your issues. In any case, you just drive information that should be shared underground in the realm of PM's (which, I hope someone would be able to PM me some info on this post).

Thanks again everyone for all your help thus far, I've come a long way since I first started out. Everday my add is progressively being better controlled without the use of stimulant meds, a huge achievement in my book ..

Edited by nancy_axel, 09 October 2008 - 12:02 AM.

[luv2increase]

Ah, well if it isn't Luv. Listen buddy, if you can't answer the question don't post a reply: A question like .. where can I buy nefiracetam? Your response: Wherever it is sold. haha, you can't be serious .. you really should get a job . (hopefully your reply won't be that you indeed have a job and yada yada .. thanks).

I bet you would 'Luv 2 Increase' to make up for your limitations in more areas than one . If it makes you feel bigger where it counts, you can go on trying to mess with my posts -- its certainly one way to deal with some of your issues. In any case, you just drive information that should be shared underground in the realm of PM's (which, I hope someone would be able to PM me some info on this post).

Thanks again everyone for all your help thus far, I've come a long way since I first started out. Everday my add is progressively being better controlled without the use of stimulant meds, a huge achievement in my book ..

Huh? I was being serious. What is your problem, and why are you so mean to me?

[nancy_axel]

Ah, well if it isn't Luv. Listen buddy, if you can't answer the question don't post a reply: A question like .. where can I buy nefiracetam? Your response: Wherever it is sold. haha, you can't be serious .. you really should get a job . (hopefully your reply won't be that you indeed have a job and yada yada .. thanks).

I bet you would 'Luv 2 Increase' to make up for your limitations in more areas than one . If it makes you feel bigger where it counts, you can go on trying to mess with my posts -- its certainly one way to deal with some of your issues. In any case, you just drive information that should be shared underground in the realm of PM's (which, I hope someone would be able to PM me some info on this post).

Thanks again everyone for all your help thus far, I've come a long way since I first started out. Everday my add is progressively being better controlled without the use of stimulant meds, a huge achievement in my book ..

Huh? I was being serious. What is your problem, and why are you so mean to me?

again, unless you have something productive to say .. don't say it mr. i would love to increase. i understand the only place you could buy nefiracetam is a place where they sell it. thanks for the same old run around on this topic .

Edited by nancy_axel, 09 October 2008 - 03:00 AM.

[luv2increase]

i understand the only place you could buy nefiracetam is a place where they sell it.

I don't get what is wrong with that? I wasn't lying was I?


You are going to have to buy it from a "research chemical supplier".

[luv2increase]

Luckily, I've been proactive and compiled a page with the cheapest suppliers of all the racetams, Nefiracetam included... enjoy!

PS: I rechecked the links today, there are suppliers for all the racetams

PS2: Please reply in this thread or PM me if you can find alternate suppliers for any racetam with reasonable prices, or any prices for those with only one supplier.

Racetam Prices

The source you have for nefiracetam (Team Life Research) doesn't supply COAs. There site looks very sketchy as well. I surely wouldn't intake anything in my body from a site like that especially since they don't provide COAs.



edit: I found a good USA source.


LGM Pharmaceuticals Inc. out of Boca Raton, FL.

You will have to send an e-mail or call them up for a price inquiry. I did search their database, and they do have nefiracetam.
http://www.lgmpharma.com/home.cfm

Edited by luv2increase, 09 October 2008 - 05:05 AM.

[graatch]

A 'true' nootropic shouldn't be toxic at all. Nefiracetam doesn't fit this description.

"All things are poison, and nothing is without poison: the dose alone makes the poison." - Paracelsus

Edited by graatch, 13 October 2008 - 08:38 AM.

[nancy_axel]

So overall, how would people describe the effects of nefiracetam?

[nootz]

If anyone wants to try nefiracetam I have a few grams
can supply anywhere from 1-25 grams. I also have phenylpiracetam,
pramiracetam, and nicergoline.

[Jurence]

300mg/kg is a healthy dose. That is like ... 60g a day for me. I don't see why we don't experiment with lower doses

[outsider]

300mg/kg is a healthy dose. That is like ... 60g a day for me. I don't see why we don't experiment with lower doses

And it is even more toxic for your kidneys if I remember correctly.

When I snorted 100mg I had a little inflamation in my throat the next day. Maybe just coincidence but I doubt it.

Edited by outsider, 14 July 2010 - 08:15 AM.

[Animal]

300mg/kg is a healthy dose. That is like ... 60g a day for me. I don't see why we don't experiment with lower doses

And it is even more toxic for your kidneys if I remember correctly.

When I snorted 100mg I had a little inflamation in my throat the next day. Maybe just coincidence but I doubt it.

LoL why were you snorting it? What effects did you expect?