86 replies to this topic

[shpongled]

Yeah, it is very potent, but that doesn't answer the question of whether the maximal nootropic effect is greater. I wouldn't want to try it until there is human research. Definitely has promise though.

[shpongled]

I posted this on another forum a few days ago:

Potency does not necessarily correlate with maximal activity. Racetam nootropics tend to have bell-shaped dose-response curves. So the question you want answered is not how potent a compound is, but how strong the effect is at the dose which has the maximal effect.

Accordingly, here is a quote from one of the sunifiram studies:

The maximal antiamnesic effect of DM235 was obtained with the dose of 0.001 mg kg–1 i.p. and maintained up to 0.1 mg kg–1 i.p. The DM235-induced antiamnesic effect was of the same intensity as that exerted by the well-known nootropic drugs piracetam (30 mg kg–1 i.p.), aniracetam (100 mg kg–1 p.o.) or rolipram (30 mg kg–1 p.o.) (Fig. 2A and B).

There are no human studies on this compound. So we know nothing about the toxicity, side effects, or pharmacokinetics in humans. I agree that it is promising, but self-experimentation with drugs like this - especially ones with an active dose of 1 mcg/kg - is dangerous. Not only that, but with a bell-shaped dose response curve, you have to hit a very narrow dosage range to achieve an effect, which is much more difficult if the doses are miniscule. It is possible that even a fraction of a milligram too much could make it so it had no nootropic effect at all.

[shpongled]

Also, just to note, in some tests of nootropic activity (forgot which ones) sunifiram was actually weaker or ineffective compared to more well-known racetams.

[Isochroma]

I have six Chinese suppliers as of today for Sunifiram.

Their prices - including EMS shipping to my door - are: $88, $100, $115, $130, $150, $200 for 1g.

All have it in stock.

Dosage is 5mg for a 150lb person.

There are 200 doses per gram. This molecule is actually 1000x more potent than Piracetam - unlike Noopept which is only 100x more potent.

At 200 doses per gram, the price per dose for each seller respectively is: $0.44, $0.50, $0.58, $0.75, $1.00.

If anyone is interested to try it please reply or PM me.

I am likely to buy a gram on January 5 2012.

[lifebuddy]

Can you list any of the suppliers? I checked on Alibaba and can not find anything.

[Isochroma]

I am waiting for the COA from one of the suppliers.

For reasons of potential future business I haven't decided to make the list public yet.

I will be thinking about it in the coming days.

[megatron]

I am definitely interested, but not before a fair amount of people have tried it out.

[Isochroma]

Bit of a catch-22 circular argument isn't it?

Somebody will have to be first or nobody can be there anywhere anywhen.

[noot_in_the_sky]

Bit of a catch-22 circular argument isn't it?

Somebody will have to be first or nobody can be there anywhere anywhen.

You can give a few samples away, once people have it they might think: "What the hell?", and take 1. It's what some supplement companies do.

Edited by noot_in_the_sky, 09 December 2012 - 12:12 AM.

[Isochroma]

It's what ScienceGuy on this forum did too. I might do it as well.

[megatron]

Can you explain how Sunifiram works for you? In what areas have you seen improvements etc? Anyhow, I would love to have a sample if you start giving out free test samples.

Edited by Megatrone, 09 December 2012 - 01:07 PM.

[noot_in_the_sky]

Isochroma-Reborn, how did you got the 5mg dosage for a 150lb person? I did a calculation base on the pubmed article:

https://www.ncbi.nlm...pubmed/12070754

Which states the use an oral administration of (0.01-0.1 mg kg(-1) in mice, which @ .1mg/kg converts to .0081mg/kg in human. Or is my math of?

[Isochroma]

Linear conversion doesn't work for brain drugs.

I say the dose will be less than Noopept's 25mg. But we don't know because no human has yet taken this molecule, or if they did they kept their results secret.

Sombody is going to have to investigate by taking various doses. What's most important is that activity is retained over a 10:1 ratio.

This molecule has an n-shaped dose-response curve in animals so the right dose will work and doses above and below it won't work.

[lifebuddy]

It is also going to be really difficult to get an economical 3rd party COA on this compound yet. We can get a chinese chem company to synth a batch, but when it arrives - how are we going to test it? Regular assay won't be possible due to a lack of reference compound availability from trusted chemical manufacturers. Noopept is an example - - - no 3rd party COA to be found anywhere yet. The only way of verifying the compound is going to be through a more expensive method - - such as a mass spec analysis.

[Isochroma]

I don't ever expect a 3rd party COA.

Right now I can't even get an in-house COA from my Chinese friends.

Now I have a bad taste in my mouth from the ten grams of corn-starch that loser Nootrabiolabs sold me on eBay for $76.94.

I'm not interested in buying more corn-starch for $100+ per gram. Chinese corn-starch doesn't taste any better than the American kind.

My payday is coming up next week and I don't have any reason to believe that any of the five Chinese sellers have the real DM-235.

That means I will be buying 500g Oxiracetam from my trusted Chinese supplier instead.

Stick with the best, reject the rest.

And don't bother buying Nootrabiolabs' 'Phenylpiracetam' on eBay or anywhere else. It's a fraud. At best it's Russian Roulette - I suspect he's sending out some real PP and the other half or 30% of shipments are 100% inert powder with poor solubility characteristics and lacking the slight bitterness that has already been noted by others on this forum which characterizes real Phenylpiracetam.

This way he can claim that it's real because some % of buyers get an effect. He can claim that it's the buyer's inconsistent responses to the drug instead of the fact that every second or third of his 'Phenylpiracetam' shipments is inert powder.

A certain % of his buyers will randomly receive the real thing and the rest will get inert powder. It's the perfect scheme. I might try it myself. As P.T. Barnum said, "There's a sucker born every minute".

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 10 December 2012 - 01:34 AM.

[lifebuddy]

What about elevated labs phenylpiracetam? I bought phenyl from both vendors (nootrabiolabs & elevated labs) and they looked and tasted identical, and had the exact same effect - nothing. Would be interested to hear if anyone has taken any real phenyl.

[Isochroma]

No more reason to trust Elevated than Nootrabiolabs.

In fact, one reason less to trust him:

On November 29, 2012 I sent him this message via eBay messenger:

"I bought 10g Phenylpiracetam from Nootrabiolabs here on eBay.

Didn't do a damn thing, total waste of money.

Also it didn't dissolve in water and had no taste.

How do I know yours isn't fake too? Maybe it's the same as NTB's."

I received a reply (the only reply I have received to date) from him the next day:

"We'll go ahead and check the physical properties to ensure it dissolves/has recognizable taste. We also have a CoA (Certificate of Analysis) we will send along to you as well.

Cheers!

The Elevated Labs Team"

So they will ensure that their fraud resembles the real thing, will they?

He never replied with the COA as he promised to.

I won't be sending my money to jokers like him even if his material is real. His foolish response indicates he never comprehended my question.

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 10 December 2012 - 03:23 AM.

[lifebuddy]

Elevated labs is run by a couple of college students. They do not have the money for independent COAs, so I doubt they are any more reliable.

I agree that he didn't comprehend your question. If they had gone to the trouble of importing a strange and unusual chem from a new company (they are only a month old themselves), they should have at least tested their products with some basic physical tests ALREADY. Otherwise they are taking advantage of others one by one until they get enough "duff" responses to wake up.

[Isochroma]

Agreed.

[Isochroma]

I was right. Just checked eBay again and Elevated's Phenylpiracetam item is gone.

It was there yesterday.

Thieves in the night.

Edit: He reposted the sale but an eBay search doesn't find it because it's bid-only - there's no Buy it Now like his previous sale.

Edited by Isochroma-Reborn, 10 December 2012 - 03:50 AM.

[lifebuddy]

They still have it on their website.

[Isochroma]

Indeed.

But no COA was sent to me.

[noot_in_the_sky]

Talking about questionable ebay supplier have anybody notice how BYOB and Nexus supplements use the same Health Supplement Wholesale label.
Can HSW be behind both BYOB and Nexus??
Nexsus

http://www.ebay.com/itm/30-Grams-Pramiracetam-Bulk-Powder-/140816435217?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20c9504811

BYOB

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pramiracetam-50-Grams-Bulk-Powder-/180943887061?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a21189ad5

Health Supplement Wholesale

http://healthsupplementwholesalers.com/

Edited by noot_in_the_sky, 10 December 2012 - 02:36 PM.

[megatron]

Notice us whenever you can verify the authenticity of the Sunifiram.

[Isochroma]

They are one and the same company, and also OK. I received nice fresh 100g Pramiracetam from them a month ago.

[megatron]

They are one and the same company, and also OK. I received nice fresh 100g Pramiracetam from them a month ago.

Have you ordered Sunifiram yet? You should test it yourself first, before starting distributing to others. Also, do you resell Prami? If so, how much do you charge?