336 replies to this topic

[absent minded]

The combo I suggest as a good starting point, that myself and a few other people are enjoying pretty well right now, is piracetam + ALCAR. You can't get much cheaper than buying these in bulk, and piracetam might be off the market soon (except through overseas pharmacies), so you may want to get it while it's hot. ½ kilogram will last me 312 days; the same $30 buys you about 30g of aniracetam, which, depending on your reaction, will last somewhere between 20 and 60.

So it's been about a year... any follow ups on this? Are the politicians or whatever relevant authority figures still debating about it?

Edited by absent minded, 14 December 2011 - 09:54 AM.

[scouser]

Hello

I have read this thread with interest and decided; after a draining period of exam revision to try this out. I wonder if I should perhaps start with the main 3 as suggested by the original poster and maybe add the additional supps later to judge the difference.

Did anybody else do this at all?

How are the guys here who started this getting on with it all?

Thanks

[evodude]

I tried it. It works, no doubt. Great stack. I wrote a thread of my experiences.

[nito]

I tried it. It works, no doubt. Great stack. I wrote a thread of my experiences.

where?

[winsanity]

In reference to the use of pyritinol

http://www.ncbi.nlm..../pubmed/2851848
Suggests that it interferes with GABA

[Khannea SunTzu]

I still have a considerable batch of Modafinil I will not beusing. I'd love sharing it with someone {in europe} my mail for sane reimbursement. If interested you know how to reach me.

Note to self - this is a legal transaction on my end.

[Logic]

...Lion's mane is a mushroom that has been used for centuries in the east to enhance the nervous system. Recently it has been discovered that this is because lion's mane increases the production of Nerve Growth Factor. NGF is responsible for determining the rate at which new brain cells are produced. A Nobel Prize was awarded for this discovery because no other substance is known to cross the blood-brain barrier and stimulate the production of NGF. Six months of supplementation with lion's mane is proven to produce a significant improvement in nearly every measure of mental function in people with dementia. In a literal sense, you have more brains when you supplement with lion's mane. NOBEL-FREAKING-PRIZE. Don't underestimate it...

This paper may give some insight into how/why Lion;s Mane works:

Nerve growth factor increases mRNA levels for the prion protein
and the f8-amyloid protein precursor in developing hamster brain
http://www.ncbi.nlm....s00303-0447.pdf

Now Prion Protein enhances proliferation and self-renewal of neural stem cells amongst other things.
This increases the the number of stem cells produced in vivo and enhances protection from DNA damage and cell cycle progression and upregulates superoxide dismutase-2.
http://onlinelibrary...m.1065/abstract

Thx to Smithx for starting a topic on prion protein (PrP) here:
http://www.longecity...s-young-longer/

So it seems that Lion's Mane may increase/upregulate stem cells for the whole body!???

[StarMitten20818]

the 4g of Inositol doesn't cause difficulty? No zoning out?

[kagalive1985]

Thank you so much for this valuable contribution to the community.

I have all of these nootropics and am going to adjust my stack to match yours.

Thank you again, no words can express just how pleased I am at finding this informative thread.

Your Pal,
Kagalive

[Logic]

...Lion's mane is a mushroom that has been used for centuries in the east to enhance the nervous system. Recently it has been discovered that this is because lion's mane increases the production of Nerve Growth Factor. NGF is responsible for determining the rate at which new brain cells are produced. A Nobel Prize was awarded for this discovery because no other substance is known to cross the blood-brain barrier and stimulate the production of NGF. Six months of supplementation with lion's mane is proven to produce a significant improvement in nearly every measure of mental function in people with dementia. In a literal sense, you have more brains when you supplement with lion's mane. NOBEL-FREAKING-PRIZE. Don't underestimate it...

This paper may give some insight into how/why Lion;s Mane works:

Nerve growth factor increases mRNA levels for the prion protein
and the f8-amyloid protein precursor in developing hamster brain
http://www.ncbi.nlm....s00303-0447.pdf

Now Prion Protein enhances proliferation and self-renewal of neural stem cells amongst other things.
This increases the the number of stem cells produced in vivo and enhances protection from DNA damage and cell cycle progression and upregulates superoxide dismutase-2.
http://onlinelibrary...m.1065/abstract

Thx to Smithx for starting a topic on prion protein (PrP) here:
http://www.longecity...s-young-longer/

So it seems that Lion's Mane may increase/upregulate stem cells for the whole body!???

Yes? No? Maybe? "F off and ask your stupid questions about stem cell rejuvenation elsewhere"?

[Sholrak]

This post is REALLY helpful, thanks!
I'm planning an stack, trying to not making it too excesive but useful and non issues related.

I've only tried melatonin, pira, and ALCAR. The stack I have in my mind should be:

Piracetam
Aniracetam
ALCAR
Fish Oil
B brain enhancing vitamines classes (BBB crossing)
Phosphatydilserine
Methylene Blue
Rhodiola Rosea
Bacopa Monnieri
Melatonin if needed

But for now, that's just theory. I'n now planning to go with the Rhodiola Rosea. Brand suggerestings and advices for cycling for not to gain tolerance quickly?

Edited by Sholrak, 01 November 2012 - 03:02 AM.

[apaigejw]

This may be a silly question, but seeing that most of these "supplements" can be purchased in bulk form, can I measure out the doses and blend them into my morning smoothie and still get optimal results or does the digestion process inhibit absorption? I have been reading about these wonder "supplements" for many years, but felt some of the online articles were on the shady side, until recently. I am prescribed NuVigil, however, a change in insurance coverage makes most of the $450 a month cost fall on me. So, I hoard and suffer for emergencies. Also, I am looking for something to reduce the anxiety and increase the attention span of my 7 year old stepson. He is super intelligent, but gets so anxious and has the attention span of a gnat sometimes. The attention is probably age related.. but the anxiety is disturbing. Going back to the original train of thought, is there a problem with adding the powders to my shake or can certain components to the recipe cause a problem? i.e. Grapefruit adds to the potency of xanax..

thanks

[kagalive1985]

I think your sons reaction is normal for that age just give him some time to mature before handing him pills.

Just my opinion.

- Namaste,
Kaga

[apaigejw]

I definitely don't want him on pills as his natural mother's (unknown to him except in her unreliability) heroin addiction is a big cause for his anxiety. I just have a fear of the administration advocating medication at some point and I want a reasonably researched alternative.

[stablemind]

I definitely don't want him on pills as his natural mother's (unknown to him except in her unreliability) heroin addiction is a big cause for his anxiety. I just have a fear of the administration advocating medication at some point and I want a reasonably researched alternative.

instead of supplementing with medication, find foods rich in nutrient such as seeds, nuts, vegetables, etc. Magnesium helps anxiety so maybe give him pumpkin seeds to munch on.

[socalfusions]

This appears to be the most thorough Nootropics thread where self testing has been done. Are the stacks provided by the author still considered optimal? After reading more recent ones it seems like Antiracetam or Noopept are sometimes substituted for Piracetam. Of course most of the research or posts I read are not as descriptive as this thread leading me to delve deeper to find solid data. As someone with a tight budget I'm simply looking to find concrete evidence of the most modern Nootropic stack available.

Edited by socalfusions, 24 December 2012 - 08:03 AM.

[Hope47]

great thread

[michaelh]

This appears to be the most thorough Nootropics thread where self testing has been done. Are the stacks provided by the author still considered optimal? After reading more recent ones it seems like Antiracetam or Noopept are sometimes substituted for Piracetam. Of course most of the research or posts I read are not as descriptive as this thread leading me to delve deeper to find solid data.

I'm too am interested in knowing if this is still the best stack. Noticed the OP hasn't posted on here for the last 8 months.

[Switch124]

This appears to be the most thorough Nootropics thread where self testing has been done. Are the stacks provided by the author still considered optimal? After reading more recent ones it seems like Antiracetam or Noopept are sometimes substituted for Piracetam. Of course most of the research or posts I read are not as descriptive as this thread leading me to delve deeper to find solid data.

I'm too am interested in knowing if this is still the best stack. Noticed the OP hasn't posted on here for the last 8 months.

Seconded. Looking forward to an update from OP.

This appears to be the most thorough Nootropics thread where self testing has been done. Are the stacks provided by the author still considered optimal? After reading more recent ones it seems like Antiracetam or Noopept are sometimes substituted for Piracetam. Of course most of the research or posts I read are not as descriptive as this thread leading me to delve deeper to find solid data.

I'm too am interested in knowing if this is still the best stack. Noticed the OP hasn't posted on here for the last 8 months.

Seconded. Looking forward to an update from OP.

[norepinephrine]

For those who haven't gone through the whole thread, the OP came back in latter pages and admitted that his original post was mainly hyperbole and that he had ceased all nootropics except for bacopa (to assist with his meditation).

In general, some of the components of the stack are now out-of-vogue and it'd be a good idea for the mods to edit or append the original post, given it's one of the first items on Google when one searches 'nootropics'. A more up-to-date stack would be:
1) Pick and choose whatever racetam + choline combo works for you after careful experimentation.
2) CILTEP for focus/energy/motivation.
3) Uridine+DHA+choline for feeding your brain the 'raw components' it needs and modulating dopamine.
4) Noopept, which is technically a non-racetam.

[Nootropic Cat]

^Nice post norepinephrine, but while we're preaching 'do no harm', let's also not forget that choline is not without its dangers.

[norepinephrine]

Of course- hence why I said careful experimentation. For me, choline leads to fairly debilitating depressive episodes if overdone, even in the form of ALCAR.

[Phaseshift]

I signed up just to reply to this thread. I'm thinking of trying the 3 mentioned Nootropics as my first stack. Will post some feedback.

[Phaseshift]

what dosages should we be taking per day?

[UKADHDs]

Day 1 of recommended intro stack, today:
3 x 1200mg piracetam pills
450mg (1 scoop*) citicholine (CDP choline)
450mg (1 scoop) sulbutiamine
750mg (1 scoop) bacopa
(plus the usuals: 5x1g fish oil caps, 3 green tea caps for weight loss / general, protein for mass gain & weight loss, creatine for gym / muscle gain, D12 under tongue, Vit D droppers for general benefit, cinnamon for weight loss)
Taken in a shake in the morning with water then topped up with milk (skimmed - will buy full fat when this carton's done).
Effect: noticeable but not "OMG" improvement in concentration & ease of maintaining focus. felt a bit more.... businesslike almost, professional, chilled, thoughtful/mindful (I have ADHD-PI hence my getting into this. I guess my chosen member name hints at that, ha).

Effect seemed to wear off around 4/5 hours in. OP suggests taking the stack will give full-day (8 hr) effects but this is contradicted by others who cite a 4 (ish) hour halflife of piracetam. Since the consensus / science states that piracetam should be taken with a choline source, should I split the citicholine & sulbutiamine in 2 / 3 doses aslo, e.g.:
Morning: 2x1200mg piracetam pills, 1 scoop citicholine, 1 scoop sulbutiamine, 1 scoop bacopa
Afternoon (or 4-5 hours after): 2x1200mg piracetam pills, 1 scoop citicholine, 1 scoop sulbutiamine.
???
Or is the extra bump of sulbutiamine not needed. Should I take 2 scoops of that in the morning for the daily dose, i.e.:
Morning: 2x1200mg piracetam pills, 1 scoop citicholine, 2 scoops sulbutiamine, 1 scoop bacopa
Afternoon (or 4-5 hours after): 2x1200mg piracetam pills, 1 scoop citicholine
???

Any thoughts appreciated. I'm more interested in an 8-hour benefit than a full day - I'm ok having a poor ability to concentrate in the evenings (being distracted while playing Halo is only a matter of life or death for the master chief, not for me personally!)

@Phaseshift - dosages detailed later on page 1 by OP (although leads to some questions whether it should be all in the morning or split across the day, hence this post).
*little blue plastic "1ml" scoop from jgsupplements.com which seemed like a great service - reasonable price, great website, delivery prices fair & on time. HOWEVER: I have access to a lab with a high-precision digital scales and verified the flat-scoop weights myself. There's a bit of deviation from the stated weights on the tubs.

[alwaysthinking]

it's strange how i have read so much about various Racetam nootropics and their still seems to be the unknown variability in reaction which no one can identify a cause. I am starting to think it is most probably a genetic thing as with many differing reactions to drugs. I just wish it was a more pronounced effect from Racetams to give us an idea if the lack/gain of nootropic effect is down to en enzyme mutation for instance, or a willingness to embrace placebo more easily.

Does anyone think that the case with Noopept is any different? Is there a Racetam which seems to have a global noticeable effect?

[Sholrak]

In my opinion, racetams are somewhat "dirty", but it's only my perception after testing only Piracetam. However, if they all have a similar way of acting, my opinion is they have some effect on your mind, that will persist after your dosing for long time. But, it's a kind of impredictible effect, you won't know how they affect you at all.

I have decided not to use any other racetam, as Piracetam looks like the perfect definition for Nootropic, but it has some undesirable effects. I mean, they have no hangovers, withdrawal or anything like that, but for example, I miss the effects of Pira, although I know it was a state of mind somewhat artificial. That's why I won't test any more another racetams, they have a profound impact in your way of thinking, being, in my opinion, Piracetam the only one that would be reasonable to digg in as it connects the two hemispheral parts of tour brain.

They must be more powerful than apparent, but as I said, dirty drugs. If you haven't tested any racetam, think twice about it. DOn't missunderstand me, it can be amazxing, but you have to be ready for a new whole thinking way, or they will make you mad HAHA.

Edited by Sholrak, 25 March 2013 - 08:26 PM.

[alwaysthinking]

I think in my experience, some of the Racetams give me a sort of detachment from the entire days thinking like a sort of fog where i cant link everything i have to do so easily. I have started supplementing with Citicoline but this doesn't really change things.

I would try Piracetam but unfortunately it is a prescription drug here in the UK and so not easy to obtain legally. It's such a shame that a great mind enhancing drug is left to the doctors to decide who should have it. Especially when there is clearly nothing adverse effecting people. It has been around since the 60s and has extensive research surrounding its safe use.

I wish nootropics could become more mainstream and everyday people could simply understand what the term stands for, instead of simply hearing about "smart drugs" and ADHD which gives a very bad view of the whole situation, especially in the states where things seem to be much more predominant.

[UKADHDs]

@alwaysthinking - see threads:
http://www.longecity...etam-in-the-uk/
http://www.longecity...iracetam-in-uk/
http://www.longecity...pics-in-the-uk/
I got mine from http://www.docsimon.co.uk/ and they've done the job - life changing
JGsupplements.com (.co.uk?) for everything else as per previous posts, based on n00b stack proposed by OP.

[i don't have any affiliation with any of these people, just used em based on trawling the boards like everyone else]

[Phaseshift]

what kind of possible side effects can I expect from the 3 nootropics mentioned in the first op?

Is there also a website that everyone recommends to order these nootropics? I live in the US

Edited by Phaseshift, 28 March 2013 - 02:36 AM.