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Ecdysterone and other insect hormones


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#1 Hedrock

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 02:20 AM


Very interesting what I read now:

1.) Ecdysterone - the insect hormone for body-building and anti-aging

Not only insects but also human have receptors! Ecdysterone-receptor is a central receptor of the cell nucleus.

Ecdysterone is used for following purposes:
- Anabolic - muscle growth without training
- Fat loss
- Rise weight in protein
- Increase in the protein weight of liver, heart and kidneys
- Makes young skin (topical skin care from Christian Dior)
- No side effects(?)

But is it true? I can't believe it! Please write down your experiences with (beta)Ecdysterone.

I plan to take 500 mg ecdysterone/day if the stories are true.

2.) Juvenile hormone (insects)

Wikipedia about juvenile hormone

- Synergistic - in insects - with ecdysterone for moulting
- I found no experiences in the internet, nobody ever tried?
- but it sounds very interesting

Did anybody try the sesquiterpene juvenile hormone?

#2 maxwatt

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 02:49 AM

Wishful thinking. They do not work in humans.
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#3 Hedrock

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 03:02 AM

Sure?

PMID: 14599496

#4 maxwatt

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 03:10 AM

Sure?

PMID: 14599496


That is a long, long way from obtaining results in a human being using an orally administered insect hormone. In the unlikely case that you could transfect your cells with a plasmid carrying an ecdysteroid-inducible reporter gene (as was done to cultured cells in the paper you cite) there might be some measurable effect, but I doubt it would be so straightforward as to suddenly grow muscles. Ecdysterones have been around for decades. If they worked, we'd know it by now and they'd be banned in sport. Watch old videos of The Fly ; the science is more accurate.
  • Agree x 1

#5 Hedrock

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 03:48 AM

Ecdysterones have been around for decades. If they worked, we'd know it by now and they'd be banned in sport.


This is an argument! :|?

In the unlikely case that you could transfect your cells with a plasmid carrying an ecdysteroid-inducible reporter gene (as was done to cultured cells in the paper you cite) there might be some measurable effect


You seem to be right!

I really thought human have ecdysone-receptors by reading all the fun stuff from the sellers.

If we had these receptors the propagandized results would be explainable. But after rereading there is no evidence in human for these receptors.

I should not read the supplement adds any more!

#6 Hedrock

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Posted 03 January 2010 - 04:28 AM

I googled again.

I just wonder how it could partically replace classical anabolica in body-building!

Placebo-effect?

I can't believe the bodybuilders now taking this new stuff are stupid

And what about the rats?

Everything illusion?

Phytoecdysteroids increase protein synthesis in skeletal muscle cells.

Please help - not sure what to believe!

Does it work and how?

Somebody here must have tried it!

#7 Hedrock

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 01:50 PM

Prof.Dr.Marcus Metka who is president od the Austrian Anti-Aging-Society said interesting things about ecdysterone.

Interview with Prof.Metka about anti-aging-medicine

MT: "What is about ecdysone?"

Prof.Dr.Marcus Metka: "... Studies give hope, that this plant steroid on the basis of its epigenetic potential is the ideal hormone for menopausal problems."

He is the writer of the book:

"The Phytohormone-Revolution"

Die Phytohormon-Revolution


I also give you the link to some advertisments of a supplement-seller in europe just to see what it's for. You might say, it's not serious, but ecdysone seems to work for many bodybuilders.

I can't believe ecdysone(=ecdysterone) hasen't reached the USA yet?

The application of ecdysone for anti-aging is new. So keep your mind open.

Edited by Hedrock, 06 January 2010 - 01:59 PM.


#8 Hedrock

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Posted 03 February 2010 - 12:50 AM

...

Ecdysteroids are probably the most abundant steroids in nature because they are produced not only by arthropods, but also by many plant species. They seem to display a wide array of pharmacological effects on vertebrates, many of which are beneficial. However, these claims require more thorough validation and clinical testing. Ecdysteroids are used by an increasing number of humans as anabolic compounds, and it may well be that in the near future they will also be used on domesticated animals. This is the reason why new methods of detection and quantification have been recently proposed (Tsitsimpikou, 2001; Le Bizec, 2002) and further developments in this area are required. Whether ecdysteroid use will become controlled (e.g. for high-performance sportsmen or domestic animals [e.g. race horses]) is still open.
Ecdysteroids have also been successfully developed as effective inducers for gene switch control systems, several of which are presently in use. Ecdysteroids and/or bisacylhydrazines fulfil many of the required criteria, but not all. There are still problems which need to be overcome (e.g. the need for highly potent ligands for modified ecdysteroid receptors in transformed mammalian or plant cells). However, there is clearly great potential in this area. The future of ecdysteroid-regulated gene switches as an experimental tool is assured, but the prospects as in vivo systems is more debatable; the numerous pharmacological effects of ecdysteroids may preclude the development of their use in humans for gene therapy systems. This can only be resolved if more effort is invested into examining the biochemical fate and pharmacological consequences of ecdysteroids in mammals, especially humans.

...



Practical uses for ecdysteroids in mammals including humans: an update

#9 neogenic

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 02:46 PM

...

Ecdysteroids are probably the most abundant steroids in nature because they are produced not only by arthropods, but also by many plant species. They seem to display a wide array of pharmacological effects on vertebrates, many of which are beneficial. However, these claims require more thorough validation and clinical testing. Ecdysteroids are used by an increasing number of humans as anabolic compounds, and it may well be that in the near future they will also be used on domesticated animals. This is the reason why new methods of detection and quantification have been recently proposed (Tsitsimpikou, 2001; Le Bizec, 2002) and further developments in this area are required. Whether ecdysteroid use will become controlled (e.g. for high-performance sportsmen or domestic animals [e.g. race horses]) is still open.
Ecdysteroids have also been successfully developed as effective inducers for gene switch control systems, several of which are presently in use. Ecdysteroids and/or bisacylhydrazines fulfil many of the required criteria, but not all. There are still problems which need to be overcome (e.g. the need for highly potent ligands for modified ecdysteroid receptors in transformed mammalian or plant cells). However, there is clearly great potential in this area. The future of ecdysteroid-regulated gene switches as an experimental tool is assured, but the prospects as in vivo systems is more debatable; the numerous pharmacological effects of ecdysteroids may preclude the development of their use in humans for gene therapy systems. This can only be resolved if more effort is invested into examining the biochemical fate and pharmacological consequences of ecdysteroids in mammals, especially humans.

...



Practical uses for ecdysteroids in mammals including humans: an update

In the 90s Derek Cornelius of Syntrax pimped these things and I bought in to them, buy my $$$. Even when I thought this company could do no wrong (before I experienced liver damage from their forthcoming fat burner) I saw nothing. ZERO...with placebo effect on full. Dosed high. Nothing. Then recently, they've come back around in the industry. I had some friends send me Thermolife's and Poliquin's products and still...nothing. I am tuned in where I see differences with most of my supplements over days and training.

I can't think of a more pointless supplement in sports nutrition dating back to smilax, dibencozide and boron...and I put more stock in those than ecdy.

#10 medievil

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 11:10 PM

Just came acros this article.
http://www.ergo-log....cdysterone.html

#11 Hedrock

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 04:55 PM

Just came acros this article.
http://www.ergo-log....cdysterone.html


Hi medievil!

Thank you for giving me some more evidence. :-D

The scelet muscles are just a side-effect for me. I actually don't want to get too much scelet muscles, but I accept that they are growing a lot without any training since I take this stuff.

The intended effect I would like to have is:

a.) The rise in protein mass of liver and other organs:
heart - a heart works probably better if it has more protein
nerves - optimized nerve function
kidney - better restauration after toxic ingestion

Ecdysteroids: a “universal medicine“?
An impressive number of papers dealing with ecdysteroid effects are available in the literature. They concern almost every physiological function, and we will give below a brief insight of the published data. It must be noted, however, that in many instances that, in addition to the difficulties caused by language barriers, the experiments are not always described with all the desirable details.
Ecdysteroids improve nervous function: in early studies, it was shown that 20E induced glutamic decarboxylase (an enzyme involved in GABA biosynthesis) in rat brain (Chaudhary et al., 1969), and that E was able to induce acetylcholinesterase in rat brain too (Catalán et al., 1984). More recently, ecdysteroids were shown to represent neuron-protective agents; they reduce glutamate-induced cell death in cortex neurons of rat foetuses and they are proposed as a therapy against mental and behavioural disorders (Aikake et al., 1996). In addition, they may protect against amnesia induced by diazepam or alcohol (Xu et al., 1999). Similar neuroprotective effects have been described for progesterone and oestradiol mixtures in animal models of neurodegeneration (Vongher and Frye, 1999).
Ecdysteroids stimulate hepatic functions: 20E accelerates recovery after hepatitis induced by heliotrine treatment (Syrov et al., 1981b). 20E and other ecdysteroids (turkesterone, cyasterone) administered (10 mg/kg) to rats with hepatitis induced by subcutaneous injection of carbon tetrachloride prevent its hepatotoxic action (Syrov et al., 1992). Moreover, a pretreatment with 20E (5 mg/kg) for one week will reduce the effects of a subsequent heliotrine treatment (Badal'yants et al., 1996).
Ecdysteroids improve heart and lung function: 20E has been recommended for the prevention of myocardial ischaemia, arrhythmia and is described as enhancing VEGF expression (Wu, 2001). An antiarrhythmic effect of 20E was also reported by Kurmukov and Yermishina (1991) and Yang et al. (1996), and an extract of Leuzea carthamoides containing high amounts of 20E also showed a similar effect (Maimeskulova and Malslov, 2000). In rabbits experimentally rendered atherosclerotic (by a high cholesterol diet), 20E (10 mg/kg/day per os) given for 28 days was able to increase Na+/K+ ATPase in myocardium (Khushbaktova et al., 1987). Intravenous injection of 20E showed also a therapeutic effect after lung contusion (Wu et al., 1997, 1998a).
Ecdysteroids improve renal function: when rats are given a nephrotoxic mixture (uranyl acetate + glycerol), 20E (5 mg/kg) seems thereafter able to restore a normal glomerular filtration rate and to suppress albuminuria (Saatov et al., 1999; Syrov and Khushbaktova, 2001).
Ecdysteroids and the immune system: various immunomodulatory effects of ecdysteroids have been described. Single intraperitoneal injections of various ecdysteroids (20E, 2dE, 2d20E, polB, turkesterone, 1–5 mg/kg) increase the concentration of antibody-forming cells in the spleen of mice immunised with sheep red blood cells (Sakhibov et al., 1989). Low (7.5×10−12–7.5×10−8 M) concentrations of 20E induce the activation (E-rosette formation test) of human lymphocytes (Trenin et al., 1996; Trenin and Volodin, 1999). Low to moderate (10−12–10−5 M) concentrations of 20E or other ecdysteroids stimulate, whereas higher (10−4M) concentrations eventually inhibit, DNA synthesis in concanavalin A – activated lymphocytes (Kuzmitsky et al., 1990; Fomovska et al., 1992; Chiang et al., 1992).
20E (10–20 mg/kg/day per os) has antiinflammatory properties similar to cortisone acetate in rats and mice (Kurmukov and Syrov, 1988; Fomovska et al., 1992) and turkesterone improves lung defence mechanisms in diabetic rats (Najmutdinova and Saatov, 1999). 20E was shown to inhibit in a dose-dependent fashion (10−9–10−4 M) histamine release from rat peritoneal mast cells induced by anti-IgE or concanavailin A (Takei et al., 1991). Taniguchi et al. (1997), however, could not observe any antiinflammatory effect of 20E given orally to rats (5 mg/kg/day for 7 days).


Overview article

The promising animal studies are very interesting,


b.) To burn more fat

Less proteins is burned and more fat. Good for me as vegetarian. I'm living on a diet low in protein, high in carb and medium in fat.


I have seen no other side-effect for me since taking Ecdysterone except my muscles growing.

I want to measure my blood values this month. I will give you feedback.


Quinoa is high in ecdysteroids. So I think quinoa could be an interesting natural source of ecdysteroids for an immortal.

#12 Hedrock

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 11:05 AM

Adding do my diet:

Cyathulae radix (Cyathula officinalis kuan)

Containing:

- CYASTERONE 2,3-MONOACETONIDE

- Several Cyasterones

- Chemical Analysis

Intended Effects:

- Liver protection

Achyranthis bidentatae Radix (Achyranthis bidentatae)

Containing:
- Ecdysteroids: ecdysterone, inokosterone

- Triterpenoids: ginsenosides, saponines

Intended effects:

- Improving memory and endurance

- Improving SOD

- Anti-senility


So per sum I'm adding the following ecdysteroids at the moment:

- Ecdysterone (20-Hydroxyecdysone) (from PEAK)
- Severeal Ecdysones (from plants)
- Several Makisterones (from plants)
- Turkesterone (from plants)
- Several Inokosterones (from plants)
- Several Cyasterones (from plants)


Ecdysteroids are by the way the biggest group of natural steroids in plants. I think human have receptors to all ecdysteroids in the cell nucleus. This would explain, why some people do have effects from ecdysteroids and some do not. It's a very old genetic programm. In some people this programs could be defect by mutation, in some people the insect program is still active. Many effects of medical plants are due to ecdysteroids.

#13 khakiman

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 09:09 AM

http://www.ergo-log....metabolism.html i might have to get some of this stuff

#14 maxwatt

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 09:56 AM

Didn't you gus read this post? http://www.imminst.o...&...st&p=381230

This stuff is being pumped again. It didn't work in the first round, and it doesn't work now.
  • Agree x 1

#15 Hedrock

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 12:36 PM

Didn't you gus read this post? http://www.imminst.o...&...st&p=381230


Yes I read it! All he says is - Ecdysterone has no effect! His liver damage was from the fat burner, as he said, not from the ecdysterone.

Good to know not any negative side effect has been seen yet.

Some bodybuilders say it has an positive effect and some say no, Maybe it's only a mild anabolic.

The difference is that I don't want to use it as a bodybuilding supplement. I want to use it for elevation the protein mass of liver and kidney, which I expect to be a good thing. Maybe ecdysterone is not the best anabolic substance for bodybuilding, but maybe it could be used as health supplement.

Now I am your human guinea pig.

What do you think about the recent studies with mice, maxwatt? Gives this some new evidence for ecdysteroids?

#16 blackbox

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 01:15 PM

Do not so readily dismiss anything, if you do, wouldn't it be this very forum that should go first?
Not that I am a big fan of bodybuilding, the fact that it works for some and not for others may have to do with absorption rate of the hormone.
As an ex-thyroid hormone user, I know stomach acidity many a time reduces the absorption to practically nil.

#17 Hedrock

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 01:42 PM

Yes, nice explanation!

The other explanation could be some poeple have ecdysteroid receptors and some do not. I could not find anything about the mechanisms in the mouse experiments. Do mammals have ecdysteriod receptors or is the effect just due to unspecific binding of the "normal" steroid receptor?

#18 Lufega

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Posted 10 April 2011 - 04:03 PM

I've been reading a few studies about this compound over at ergo-log. It all seems very promising. I was particularly attracted to this one: http://www.ergo-log....ronejoints.html

#19 Adaptogen

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 07:56 AM

an update on ecdysterone - anabolic enough to be put on the doping list

http://www.ergo-log....oping-list.html


  • Informative x 2

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#20 sativa

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Posted 12 March 2016 - 09:23 AM

Suma root (aka Brazilian ginseng) contains ecdysterone compounds and is used as an adaptogen. The compounds it contains all work synergistically to improve many aspects of health - this is a benefit lost when supplementing purified ecdysterone.

I take at least 4g a day, every morning and have most definitely noticed improvements in many aspects of my health. I combine it with sufficient protein intake (studies show 1.4g/kg is adequate), carb surplus and occasional use of other plants that support connective tissue (eg c)Cissus Quadrangularis, gotu kola) as well as improve testosterone levels (eg rooibos)

Edited by sativa, 12 March 2016 - 09:25 AM.





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