81 replies to this topic

[owls]

I'm going to try out organic brahmi for the next two months in the form of a tea. The organic brahmi is from Mountain Rose Herbs.

so how did this go? if you're still around

[Ichoose2live]

Ok, so I received an E-mail from Thorne Reseach about the level of Heavy metal in their Bacopa products.


Hello,



Thank you for your interest in Thorne Research products! Bacopa material is tested by inductively coupled plasma optical emission spectroscopy (ICP-OES). Samples are digested at 1000 watts in a Multi-wave Anton Parr Microwave with HCl/Nitric acid ratio and poured off into a 100mL flask and ran straight (without dilution) and tested for lead, mercury, cadmium, arsenic and aluminum- readings given in parts per million. Specification range: As,Cd,hg totaling less than 5ppm,* Arsenic less than 1ppm and Pb less than 3ppm. No spec for Aluminum as we test for information only. All specifications well below the USP guidelines for heavy metals.





Kind Regards,

(NAME)

Thorne Research INC

PO Box **

Dover ID *****

***-***-**** - phone

***-***-**** - fax

info@thorne.com

I imagine it was tested for 1 serving.

­­­'' The main health problems associated with chronic high levels of lead in the blood are neurological impairment in children (including possible permanent damage if exposed to high levels at an early age) and hypertension in adults. Children's blood levels should be no higher than 6 µg/dl to avoid subtle neurological symptoms (above 10 µg/dl the symptoms can become evident) and adult levels should be no higher than 25 µg/dl to avoid hypertensive symptoms (above 30 µg/dl a mild hypertensive effect has been noted in males). Pregnant women must be especially cautious about lead exposure, both because of increased risk of spontaneous abortion and potential damage to the fetus, which could occur with maternal blood lead levels of 10 µg/dl or more. Other possible health problems due to lead exposure at low levels have been proposed but remain controversial.''


The lead limit for pharmaceutical products, according to the U.S. Pharmacopoeia, is 10 ppm, and this figure is cited by U.S. test labs as the acceptable limit for herb products, dietary supplements, and drugs.

When using herb products in the form of tablets, pills, and capsules, the daily dose of finished product recommended to be ingested is often less than 6 grams/day. At 3 ppm of lead, a level higher than that typically found in American made products and higher than that found in 70% of the patents tested by the California FDA, a person ingesting such products would obtain about 0.02 mg of lead (20 micrograms). Thus, lead in Chinese herb formulas (other than select items from Hong Kong that tested much higher than 3 ppm), should not be a health concern for the Western consumer. Great news! Bacopa' Heavy metals toxicity mystery, Resolved!

MORE info: http://www.itmonline.org/arts/lead.htm

Edited by Ichoose2live, 09 March 2011 - 08:21 PM.

[Ark]

What is the best brand as far as extracts go on Bacopa???

[Erstwhile]

What is the best brand as far as extracts go on Bacopa???

I'd like to know this too. I was considering the Himalaya brand but the bottles they have locally seems a little dubious they don't seem to state the amount of bacosides. I've been taking Kordel's gingko and bacopa combo pill before sleeping but I suspect this is less than an optimal combination for bedtime..

[Logan]

I have to imagine Himalaya is one of the best.

[thedevinroy]

I use the Bacopin brand from Beyond a Century. It's powder, not capsules.

[chrono]

AFAIK there isn't a clear best, or indeed much to suggest which ones are at the top of the heap. Experience threads talk about a lot of varying products.

I was considering the Himalaya brand but the bottles they have locally seems a little dubious they don't seem to state the amount of bacosides. I've been taking Kordel's gingko and bacopa combo pill before sleeping but I suspect this is less than an optimal combination for bedtime..

The brand I tried is Himalaya, and I would also tend to think it's one of the higher-quality offerings. My bottle says it contains 650mg of whole plant (6.5mg bacoside), and 100mg of a 60% saponin extract (60mg). Since 87% of this pill is whole-plant (there are no additives), this really isn't that different than just taking straight bacopa (though Himalaya might be ritzy enough to use a better source than cheaper bulk offerings).

Whole plant means wider spectrum of all the bacosides (about 15 of them in total, many besides A and B active), but all that extra plant stuff could cause GI problems for some, and I suspect the fatigue issues as well.

Edited by chrono, 07 October 2011 - 11:29 PM.

[choqueiro]

Hi.

I´m going to try bacopa and I doubt between Planetary Herbals, Thorne, Himalaya or Paradise Herbs. Any recommendation??

Is there any difference between the "whole plant" products and those made with "leaf extract"??

Is there any study comparing the different brands and the quality of their products??

I´ve been looking out for Planetary Herbals bacopa and it is out of stock in every shop. I wrote to Planetary and they told me that they are going to be out of stock until December. Is this serious??

Thanks

[chrono]

@choqueiro: did you bother to read my response to you in the other thread, where I answered several of these questions very clearly and thoroughly (like the difference between extract and whole plant)? I posted a study in that thread, and talked about it at length, which presents a table showing the amount of active ingredients in several brands. This is the best study you're going to find comparing products, since academics really don't care about that kind of thing.

I provided a lot of suggestions there about the only info you can look for to compare these products objectively.

[choqueiro]

Hi chrono. You seem to be everywhere. Thanks so much for your answers. Of course that I read your answer in the other thread. My intention is to have more opinions (if it´s possible) because I´m not an expert in this matter. The study that you mention in the other thread is very interesting but it is not very useful for someone that is trying to decide between Planetary Herbals, Thorne, Himalaya or Paradise Herbs brands (as you can see only Himalaya bacopa was tested in this study). I´ve been reading all the threads about bacopa in this forum and I´ve been searching lot of web pages but there´s nothing conclusive. Even though there is no unanimity about the "best brand" (as you can see in this thread) I would like to have more opinions about users (specially those ones that try any of the mentioned brands) and also, I would like to determine which brand it´s at first the "best" in terms of quality (I don´t think that every brand are similar and they must be brands with best quality controls than others).

Thanks so much for your information.

[chrono]

Getting opinions other than mine is highly recommended. But you're more likely to get replies if you say what research you've already done, and display an understanding of the issues people have already talked about. Especially when asking highly general questions.

I've e-mailed three of those companies asking them the questions I outlined in the other thread. Himalaya only provides options to ask them about what products to use for specific ailments, which is very bizarre.

[choqueiro]

Any answer from the companies chrono?? Thanks so much. Your work is very useful.

[choqueiro]

iHerb and Swanson have now stock from Planeatry Herbals bacopa. So I´m trying to decide between Planetary Herbals, Thorne, Himalaya or Paradise Herbs brands.

As you can see in iHerb, Planetary and Himalaya seem to be very popular with a lot of reviews from consumers. I´m trying to find the best in terms of quality and the one with more bacopasides (chrono is asking three of this companies about it). Planetary uses the whole plant extract; Paradise and Thorne use leaf extract and Himalaya use both standardized and whole plant extract (more of this last one).

I´m not an expert but Thorne seems to be the more professional brand in terms of quality. This company only offers 200 mg. bacopa capsules. Paradise has 250 mg. capsules and Paradise with 450 mg. and Himalaya with 100 mg. (standardized) + 650 mg. (whole plant extract) is the one with more mg. per capsule. I think that more doesn´t mean better and Thorne maybe makes capsules with less mg. because his product is more potent (standardized and with more bacopasides and saponin molecules).

This aspects seem to be crucial and maybe that´s the reason of less effectivity in products that must be more potents (as AOR product with 50% bacosides). In addition there are a lot of comments of consumers that report stomach problems with whole plant extract products.

So in my inexpert opinion the clue is to know if leaf extract is better than whole plant extract and also the type and quantity of bacopasides included in each brand.

Any suggestion or comment would be appreciated.

[chrono]

Well, I sent out e-mails asking about heavy metal content, extraction solvent, and standardization method. Only Planetary Herbals got back to me:

according to our supplier the extraction solvent utilized in the bacopa whole plant extract is methanol. In addition, the concentration of the bacosides content is determined by HPLC analysis.


Concerning product purity, all raw materials and finished tablets go through heavy metal testing, including Arsenic, Mercury, Cadmium, and Lead, prior to release. Our Quality Control Department employs rigorous inspection and testing procedures to ensure all products are manufactured to provide 100% of labeled ingredient potencies. We accomplish this by making sure all raw materials and manufactured products comply with certificates of analysis provided by the vendors. These materials are sampled and inspected according to a long list of specifications. This includes the potency of active constituents, the absence of extraneous material such as heavy metals. We may also perform our own HPLC, HPTLC, UV/VIS, IR test or other analytical means.

Using methanol pretty much guarantees that they will extract the full range of (known) active ingredients, and HPLC is probably the best way to make sure the stated amount of bacoside "A" and "B" is accurate. It's also good that they test for heavy metals, as there is at least a possibility that ayurvedic herbs contain heavy metals...but without knowing their cutoff values, one is still just taking their word for it.

All in all, this one looks like a very solid product to me.

[choqueiro]

Hi chrono. Thanks so much for the information. Is a shame that only one supplier answer you. In your opinion the products made with "hole plant extracts" should be better than those ones made with "standardized or leaf extracts"??

Thanks

[chrono]

Hi chrono. Thanks so much for the information. Is a shame that only one supplier answer you. In your opinion the products made with "hole plant extracts" should be better than those ones made with "standardized or leaf extracts"??

I don't think there's much of a difference between whole plant or leaf extracts. An extract is going to pull a certain range of molecules, whether they include stems or just use leaves. As mentioned in the saponin content thread, the leaves have a higher concentration of these molecules, but it shouldn't matter that much once it's extracted. In theory, a whole plant extract could include more inactive "plant stuff" than one using just leaves. If you get GI problems from bacopa plant matter, you may want to avoid this. But if the product is standardized, there should be very little difference in composition of the actives.

Whether a product is standardized or not makes a big difference. Standardization means each pill contains a specific amount of the active ingredients. Otherwise, you really have no idea how much you're taking. This is why I asked about the companies' standardization method, since the studies in that other thread also mentioned that chromatography methods (HPLC) were much more accurate than methods like UV.

Now, this all sounds great in theory, but in the experience threads there have been a few people who have noticed a difference between brands. This could mean that one of the brands used a worse non-methanol extraction, their raw bacopa could have a different makeup of actives to begin with, raw bacopa could have more active ingredients than the 15 saponins we know of...or the main difference could be a difference in strength, or these people's reactions could simply have changed over time.

Edited by chrono, 24 October 2011 - 01:37 PM.

[choqueiro]

Hi chrono. Thanks so much. I´m going to buy 1 bottle of Planetary and 1 bottle of Thorne and experience my own. In your opinion should I include any other brand in my test (Paradise or Himalaya)??

Thanks so much

[OneScrewLoose]

The best brand of Bacopa I used was from Solaray:
http://www.luckyvita...tarian-capsules

I also tried Planetary with much less effect.

[chrono]

I´m going to buy 1 bottle of Planetary and 1 bottle of Thorne and experience my own. In your opinion should I include any other brand in my test (Paradise or Himalaya)??

I think that's a pretty good place to start. You may find out this isn't something you want to keep taking, so I'd avoid rushing out to buy a bunch of different brands...

If you want to try something different, you might grab a 50% extract (AOR?) instead.

The best brand of Bacopa I used was from Solaray:
http://www.luckyvita...tarian-capsules

I also tried Planetary with much less effect.

Interesting...Planetary Herbals has 2.25x the bacoside content...

Edited by chrono, 25 October 2011 - 05:22 AM.

[choqueiro]

Solaray???
Is this a quality brand?? What about heavy metals in their products??

[chrono]

Solaray???
Is this a quality brand?? What about heavy metals in their products??

Yeah, they're a good brand. Seems to be a little less commonly-used around here, for whatever reason.

I sent them the same e-mail; we'll see if they have the guts to respond

[choqueiro]

Any answer from Solaray chrono??

[chrono]

Any answer from Solaray chrono??

Sorry, they didn't respond. Honestly, I'd expect that most supplement vendors wouldn't have that info about their supplements, even though the questions are fairly straightforward. Not replying to such inquiries probably seems like a better idea than saying "we don't test for heavy metals."

Which is why I'm still impressed with Planetary's answer to my e-mail, it shows they actually know what they're doing, and are confident and knowledgeable about their own product.

[nupi]

Do you happen to know if Paradise tests for heavy metals? I have a bottle of it around (Planetary Herbs and Thorne were not in stock when I ordered)

[chrono]

Do you happen to know if Paradise tests for heavy metals? I have a bottle of it around (Planetary Herbs and Thorne were not in stock when I ordered)

Sorry, I don't. They also didn't respond to my query.

[nupi]

Well I guess one bottle of it probably won't kill me - after that I will probably go for Thorne or Planetary Herbals (which is a lot cheaper at iHerb but often not in stock)...

Edited by nupi, 06 November 2011 - 10:11 PM.

[Ark]

The best brand of Bacopa I used was from Solaray:
http://www.luckyvita...tarian-capsules

I also tried Planetary with much less effect.

Solaray, is legit.

[choqueiro]

Maybe Solaray is legit but don't answer to the questions about heavy metals is not the way. As chrono said maybe if they don't answer to this questions is because they don't test for heavy metals. I'm a little bit confused about this brand. Some positive experiences from their consumers but a horrible web page and very little information about their products. Really strange.

[spreader]

Swansons reply for heavy metals (I asked about bacopa/gotu, but its the same for all supposedly):

Thank you for contacting us! I did speak with a product specialist regarding your inquiry, and was told that we have tests done on every single batch of all our products before we bottle any of them including these two. The specific limits for testing of heavy metals on any of our products (per maximum daily dose) is up to 2.75 mcg of Lead, 10 mcg of Arsenic, 1.4 mcg of Cadmium, 0.3 mcg of organic Mercury, and 3 mcg of inorganic mercury. Virtually all of our products are MUCH less than those limits, but that is the maximum we would allow in any of our products.
Please keep in mind that, all finished products are inspected by our Quality Control specialists and tested for potency and stability by independent third-party laboratories to ensure that each supplement contains exactly what is stated on the label.

Swanson Health Products is absolutely committed to maintaining the highest quality products and the utmost integrity in business practices. Since 2001 Swanson Health Products has voluntarily participated in independent third-party Good Manufacturing Practices (GMP) audits, long before the FDA released their final regulations for the dietary supplement industry. If you have any additional questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us.

Our quality, value and customer service have made Swanson Health Products a trusted source of nutritional supplements since 1969. To help us build this privileged relationship with you, we welcome your comments and suggestions, as it is our pleasure to serve you at any time.

I'm not sure if ppm levels are relevant (since, as mentioned above, the amount ingested is just one dose). But anyway, it should work out to: <10ppm Lead, <40ppm Arsenic, <6ppm Cadmium, <12ppm Mercury.

Edited by spreader, 13 November 2011 - 10:54 AM.

[nupi]

That's reassuring as I got a half finished bottle of Swanson BaCognize here. Swanson would be a good source for supplements (most name brand products are cheaper than at iHerb and their own stuff is dirt cheap, I am just not too sure whether it does much at all) if only their international shipping was not that outrageous...