Garlicknots, since you say that the pain is occasional, it doesn't sound like the kind of tendon pain that is sometimes reported with resveratrol use. In what I believe are relatively rare circumstances, resveratrol can result in tendon pain as a result of its action as an aromatase inhibitor; at least that's the most plausible hypothesis. Maxwatt reports that improved vitamin D3 levels eliminated this problem for him. I imagine you are already on top of your D levels, so you may already be taken care of in that regard. It may seem counter-intuitive, but the same resveratrol that has been known to occasionally cause tendon pain will more often reduce joint/tendon pain through the down-regulation of certain inflammation pathways. You might find that dropping resveratrol would result in more pain rather than less. Shoulders are notorious for causing problems, and it's likely that what you have is a conventional problem. I'll put in a plug for physical therapy here, since a fairly simple shoulder program has helped my biceps tendinitis tremendously. While I was in PT, I'd say that about half the people there were in for shoulder problems. I don't see a need for you to stop the resveratrol unless you want to run a short experiment. Your resveratrol/quercetin/curcumin regimen sounds pretty reasonable to me. I would shoot for a 25-OH-vitamin D3 level of around 70ng/ml. I wish you all the best in this.Niner, I occasionally have joint/tendon pain on my right arm/shoulder which I don't think is caused by resv usage. However even if it was, I'm willing to take if it means that my brain tumor is regressing/not growing. I take 2-4 nitro caps/day with quercetin/curcumin at 50kg. Is it just the discomfort that I should worry about or are there more realistic reasons to discontinue use? Again, it's a brain tumor vs. some joint/tendon pain. I'd certainly discontinue or decrease dose if I was "healthy."
Increasing bioavailability of Curcumin at home?
#31
Posted 16 January 2010 - 05:23 AM
#32
Posted 16 January 2010 - 09:37 PM
Hi:
I'm Julie, a newbie interested in making high bioavailable curcumin at home. Here is our story.
My husband Rajeev was dx with a brain tumor - glioblastom multiforme grade IV (think Ted Kennedy) - July 2005.
Statistically only 1-2% survive 3 years.
Incredibly Rajeev has beaten the statistics and is 4.5 years post diagnosis.
However, we are on the last available treatment which is a combo of Avastin and Thalidomide and his neuro-oncologist told us that we are "losing the battle"....as we've exhausted all treatment. We pay out of pocket ~$2,000 each month for just the thalidomide (this month it will be ~$6,000 due to the start of a new medicare year).
He's taking 3.2 grams of Life Extension Foundation super curcumin plus piperine/day.
I just bought about 12 bottles as I did not realize that they had Super bio-available curcumin.
Please, can someone please tell me the options to make it more bio-available at home?
Can I simply break open the capsules and fry the contents, maybe adding more black pepper? What oil should I use?
Research indicates that curcumin can fight cancer, and I'm hoping that high bio-available curcumin can help us.
Thanks in advance.
Please consider cryogenics for your husband. It's worth it!!! http://www.alcor.org/
#33
Posted 16 January 2010 - 09:39 PM
Nikolay can we not jump the gun yet? He's still alive
I agree though, consider cryonics nonetheless.
#34
Posted 16 January 2010 - 09:48 PM
I've been in touch with Dr Aggarwal MD Anderson who I'm told is the expert on curcumin. He assured me that Curcumin is bioavailable and since it is fat soluable, to take it with milk or yogurt (or any other fatty food). I agree that the problem is the digestive process and lack of absorption in the small intestine.
What do you think of the super bioavailable curcumin such as that sold by life extension foundation? The injectable form? I haven't read most of Dr A's research papers (he's been sending them to me and then there is a long list on the md anderson website).
I'll be summarizing to some extent my research on curcumin for the bt lists to which I am subscribed. Is this something that others here would be interested in? If so, I'll need to know how to post it.
I have been trying to improve the bioavailability of Curcurmin. The problem with cucurmin is the the digestive process destroys the effectiveness of Curcumin before its absorbed into the blood system. The Curcumin must be protected from the digestive process so it can be absorbed in the intestine. I can not find any enteric coated Curcumin so I made my own by using enteric coated Fish oil capsules, 1200 mg, Cut the end partially off, and inserted the Curcumin capsule. It should pass thru the stomach without being destroyed. I have not found anyone who has tested this method but it sounds reasonable. If I could find a company that made enteric coated Curcumin I would buy that product. Best of luck.
[/quote]
#35
Posted 16 January 2010 - 09:59 PM
I agree that piperine increases the bioavailability greatly, can you explain why this is so esp since it is not a fat? Doesn't the curcumin and the piperine get separated in the stomach (or someplace else) and then broken down?
I think the dissolving in oil follows the theory behind Dr A's comment to take curcumin with milk or yogurt.
I haven't heard that cooking would destroy the curcumin benefits.....any more info on this?
Thanks for all your advice and I think dissolving it in ghee, etc.....with piperine makes sense. I am also going to make a high turmeric (curcumin) dish for my husband daily to go along with the supplements.
Blah. Enteric coating doesn't help, curcumin isn't destroyed by digestive enzymes or acid, it is conjugated for excretion in the intestines, rendering it ineffective. Piperine is by far the best way to avoid this, increasing bioavailability by as much as 2000%, as ridiculous as that sounds. Dissolving it in oil also helps improve absorption. Cooking may help, but may also destroy the curcumin.
If I were you, I'd dissolve the curcumin in any oil (my biases suggest ghee, coconut oil, or olive oil) along with about a teaspoon of turmeric and administer with piperine. Good luck!
#36
Posted 16 January 2010 - 10:01 PM
Just get some from revgenetics.
#37
Posted 16 January 2010 - 10:51 PM
Thanks for the welcome.
BTW, plan to summarize my curcumin research to the bt groups, so you'll see it there.
Yes, quite a bit of good info.....and I always expect that some responses to be otherwise. NBD.
Thanks for the advice on curc with resv and querc and revgenetics and ucla and longvida.com.
Did I miss max' info on ginger extract zerumbone???? Can you repost or whatever? Curcumin and ginger are tubers that come from the same family. I'll look for the comment on ginger extract.
Thanks again.
Julie
Hey Julie,
Not sure if you found your way here from one of my posts in the bt yahoo groups, but glad you're around. There are a lot of informative people around though some less so. (I most certainly fall into the less so category btw).
Like many people I'd suggest taking curcumin with resv and quercetin. I take both by revgenetics. After my current supply of ucla's curcumin product ucla curcumin bioavailability graph finishes and can be purchased from www.longvida.com I'm going to purchase the revgenetics curcumin brand because it is cheaper and I think the idea is similar.
Max' information about ginger extract zerumbone also makes sense since that's another usual curry ingredient.
f/R
#38
Posted 16 January 2010 - 11:03 PM
Thanks for the warm welcome. And the info on the degradation of curcumin due to its lack of molecular stability.
Don't know if I've missed some posts, but I didn't see the posts stating that enteric coating in not required.
We plan to add resv to the mix, can you suggest a dose? We'll be taking 8 gr/day of curc.
I'll check out the nitro product.....it may be expensive, but probably not as expensive as Thalidomide... our co-pay this month is ~$5,000-$6,0000 then once over the donut hole (medicare) it'll only cost us $2,000/month. Its retail cost is ~$36,000/month. Just unbelievable.
Thanks for the info on dosing if joint/tendon pain develps....is that for nitro?
Zerumbone I'll def check out....please remind me what are the hedgehog pathways?
Thanks for all your advice.....yes we do know the LT survival rate is 1-2% and that the inevitable is approaching. But we haven't given up hope that supplements can help with quality of life and longevity. As his wife and caretaker, I need to try whatever I come across that can cross the BBB and has some research based efficacy in treating brain tumors
Julie, I'm sorry to hear about your husband, but I'm glad you checked in with us. I do not think that cooking the curcumin would help bioavailability at all; if anything it would degrade the curcumin, which is not a supremely stable molecule. I agree with the poster that suggested you try sending them back to LEF and getting one of the commercial curcumin products that are formulated for higher bioavailability. As several people have mentioned, curcumin does not require enteric coating. I would add resveratrol to the mix, at a fairly high dose. RevGenetics is a good source; their "nitro" product is the best available to my knowledge, though it is somewhat expensive. Reduce dose or discontinue if joint/tendon pain develops. Zerumbone is definitely worth a look. Compounds acting on the hedgehog pathway have shown a lot of promise. I can't say much more than that because my knowledge on it is limited.
I'd like to tread a line between being discouraging and raising false hopes, as I think these, particularly the latter, are unnecessarily cruel. I suspect you are already aware of this, but while the compounds that we're discussing here may very well give your husband a longer life, they probably will not be curative. I wish you both the best of luck.
#39
Posted 16 January 2010 - 11:07 PM
If I find any research, I'll post it to this group.....I doubt research comparing the 2 products has been done....where would the profit come from?
I did't know that pure resveratrol powder existed, why did you choose the powder vs a pill form?
Julie
I'd really like to see some research on the revgenetics product and how it compares with the LongVida product. I hope Anthony is able to address this in the future. Currently my son is taking a mixture of pure resveratrol powder, the revgenetics Nitro product and LongVida, along with zerumbone.
Pan
[/quote]
#40
Posted 16 January 2010 - 11:21 PM
Thanks for reminding me of Astragalus....I believe it, like curcumin, is an herb used in Ayurvedic medicine.
Its quite incredible that the FDA appears to be making a move on it.
I;ll also check out Iigustrum
RE high dose EGCG from green tea extract (in much higher doses than usually recommended) is effective.....I had my husband drinking organic matcha (green tea with highest EGCG, and since it is in powdered form, one receives much more benefit than one drinking green tea and discarding the leaves), but it upset his stomach....I'll have him try it again.
Haven't reviewed the clinical trials (thanks for indirectly suggesting that I do so) and have no idea what Polyphenon E® in CLL is....would you mind giving me a quick overview?
Thanks again for all your advice.
Julie
#41
Posted 17 January 2010 - 12:17 AM
I would love to read the article. If you can find it easily, great. If not, just let me know and I search for it.
Thanks in advance,
Julie
I do not think that cooking the curcumin would help bioavailability at all; if anything it would degrade the curcumin, which is not a supremely stable molecule.
There was a comment article in some journal a while ago where the authors said they found heating the curcumin (preferably in oil) for a short time increases its bioavailability, but that heating it at a high temperature for a long time degrades it. Don't have the article on my computer, but I can try to find it if you want to take a look.
#42
Posted 17 January 2010 - 09:50 PM
JLL:
I would love to read the article. If you can find it easily, great. If not, just let me know and I search for it.
Thanks in advance,
JulieI do not think that cooking the curcumin would help bioavailability at all; if anything it would degrade the curcumin, which is not a supremely stable molecule.
There was a comment article in some journal a while ago where the authors said they found heating the curcumin (preferably in oil) for a short time increases its bioavailability, but that heating it at a high temperature for a long time degrades it. Don't have the article on my computer, but I can try to find it if you want to take a look.
PM'd.
#43
Posted 18 January 2010 - 01:57 AM
Other posts mentioning that enteric coating was not required were #8 and #20 in this thread. They're in the first page of posts. (pages can be selected by clicking in the little numbered box immediately above the first post on the left hand side, if you're not familiar with our forum software.)Don't know if I've missed some posts, but I didn't see the posts stating that enteric coating in not required.
We plan to add resv to the mix, can you suggest a dose? We'll be taking 8 gr/day of curc.
I'll check out the nitro product.....it may be expensive, but probably not as expensive as Thalidomide... our co-pay this month is ~$5,000-$6,0000 then once over the donut hole (medicare) it'll only cost us $2,000/month. Its retail cost is ~$36,000/month. Just unbelievable.
Thanks for the info on dosing if joint/tendon pain develps....is that for nitro?
Zerumbone I'll def check out....please remind me what are the hedgehog pathways?
Resveratrol is a good choice. You will probably want a fairly large dose. The goal is to get the tumor cells to commit suicide, though a process called apoptosis. Resveratrol in low doses acts against this process, while at high doses it favors apoptosis. A study by Das and coworkers finds the cutoff point in rats to be at 25mg/kg body weight. (At least that was the lowest dose they tested that worked. 5mg/kg was not enough.) Humans need a somewhat higher dose than rats in order to obtain the same plasma level of the drug, so 50mg/kg would probably be more appropriate. This would be 3.5 grams/day for a 70kg person, and you might even want to go higher than that. Incorporating 3-5000 IU vitamin D3 in an oil-based (gelcap) formulation might help to prevent the tendon pain side effect, which is a potential, though somewhat rare problem with any form of resveratrol, particularly at high doses. That dose of D3 would be a good idea on its own. $36,000 a month for Thalidomide is pretty shocking for an old compound. I bet you could get it from China or Brazil for a song.
The Hedgehog signaling pathway plays a fundamental role in development, and is highly conserved throughout the animal kingdom. It is involved in many forms of cancer. I'm not very knowledgeable about it, although one of our members, who goes by the name of Hedgehog (appropriately) knows a lot about it.
#44
Posted 07 March 2010 - 11:55 PM
Hi:
I'm Julie, a newbie interested in making high bioavailable curcumin at home.
Research indicates that curcumin can fight cancer, and I'm hoping that high bio-available curcumin can help us.
Thanks in advance.
Julie,
Here's something to consider for making curcumin more bio-available. The bio-availability of many vitamins, supplements and drugs is greatly increased through a process of liposomal encapsulation. This natural process, by which certain substances are encased on a microscopic level in phospholipids, e.g., commercially available lecithin works, has been made more effective by various mechanical means. A good example seems to be the Vitamin C currently manufactured by Livon (http://www.livonlabs.com/). If you search, as I did, you will find a recipe for making your own liposomal vitamin c at home (http://www.curezone....m.asp?i=1556980). The recipe uses a small ultrasonic cleaning machine (the type that cleans jewelry at home, for example) to encapsulate the mixture of ascorbic acid and lecithin. I have adapted that recipe and procedure to try liposomal encapsulated curcumin. My recipe uses bulk curcumin mixed in heated coconut milk until dissolved, lecithin mixed in water, and an ultrasonic cleaner to then encapsulate the curcumin with the lecithin mixture. The result, after overnight refrigeration, is a very usable form of curcumin butter. I use it in a warm soy milk drink, or spread it on toast, or mix it with vegetables, etc. All in all, it's a very inexpensive procedure.
Is the recipe and procedure effective? I think tests would have to be run in a controlled setting to see if more curcumin in getting into the cells and brain, etc., this way. Everything is very positive in terms of its anti-inflammatory effects -- I no longer use nsaids for my back pain -- and there have been no side effects after 3-4 months of high use. My energy levels are certainly increased as well. My bad cholesterol was quite low during my physical last week -- LDL 76 -- but I tend to run low cholesterol in any case. If you are interested in the specifics of the curcumin recipe I use, email me and I'll reply (jim@dailypost.com).
You can also read more about the commercial version of the UCLA optimized curcumin available now (http://addiandcassi....-brain-disease/). I have ordered it directly from LongVida and also from a more direct source (http://www.nutrivene...?ProductID=331). My wife uses it for her arthritic knee; I stick to my curcumin butter since it's less expensive and I can take as much as I want.
Best wishes for you and your family.
Jim
#45
Posted 29 June 2010 - 03:47 PM
On another note, because of anecdotal evidence of the effectiveness of cyclopamine (a Hh inhibitor) against active myeloma, I have begun another self trial with GDC-0449, a synthetic Hh inhibitor with better treatment profile. Have yet to recheck my blood markers, but have my fingers crossed.
Any input appreciated... Kevin Toman DVM (ktdvm@fone.net)
I do not believe that curcumin is unstable in acids, or that stomach acid destroys it. There should be no need for an enteric coating. LEF claim that mixing about 20% turmeric with curcumin increases bioavailability significantly, as does adding piperine. Significant amounts of piperine are found in black pepper, and it can be purchased as an extract as well.
Cooking up in a curry with mustard seed oil would be authentic, but any healthy oil would do the job. IF you like curry. Otherwise make your own turmeric/black pepper capsules to take with the plain curcumin.
Margaret's blog has a lot of information on curcumin as used for treating multiple myeloma: http://margaret.healthblogs.org
Another possibility that complements curcumin is zerumbone, isolated from a tropical species of ginger; it inhibits the hedgehog pathway, which is necessary for cancer cells to metastasize and grow. Margaret has some information about it in her blogs, which are well indexed. Zerumbone can be purchased from www.kingherbs.com.cn, and from www.kingherbs.com. If you are interested in trying it after studying the links provided in the blog, PM me. I will see if I can get you some for "compassionate use."Cancer Res. 2008 Nov 1;68(21):8938-44.
Zerumbone down-regulates chemokine receptor CXCR4 expression leading to inhibition of CXCL12-induced invasion of breast and pancreatic tumor cells.
Sung B, Jhurani S, Ahn KS, Mastuo Y, Yi T, Guha S, Liu M, Aggarwal BB.
Department of Experimental Therapeutics, Cytokine Research Laboratory, The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center, Houston, TX 77030, USA.
CXC chemokine receptor 4 (CXCR4), initially linked with leukocyte trafficking, is now known to be expressed in various tumors including breast, ovary, prostate, gastrointestinal, head and neck, bladder, brain, and melanoma. This receptor mediates homing of tumor cells to specific organs that express the ligand CXCL12 for this receptor. Thus, agents that can down-regulate CXCR4 expression have potential against cancer metastasis. In this study, we report the identification of zerumbone, a component of subtropical ginger (Zingiber zerumbet), as a regulator of CXCR4 expression. This sesquiterpene down-regulated the expression of CXCR4 on HER2-overexpressing breast cancer cells in a dose- and time-dependent manner. The decrease in CXCR4 by zerumbone was found to be not cell type specific as its expression was abrogated in leukemic, skin, kidney, lung, and pancreatic cancer cell lines. The down-regulation of CXCR4 was not due to proteolytic degradation but rather to transcriptional regulation, as indicated by down-regulation of mRNA expression, inhibition of nuclear factor-kappaB activity, and suppression of chromatin immunoprecipitation activity. Suppression of CXCR4 expression by zerumbone correlated with the inhibition of CXCL12-induced invasion of both breast and pancreatic cancer cells. An analogue of zerumbone, alpha-humulene, which lacks the carbonyl group, was found to be inactive in inducing CXCR4 down-regulation. Overall, our results show that zerumbone is a novel inhibitor of CXCR4 expression and thus has a potential in the suppression of cancer metastasis.
PMID: 18974138
Mol Carcinog. 2009 Dec 18. [Epub ahead of print]
Curcumin inhibits the Sonic Hedgehog signaling pathway and triggers apoptosis in medulloblastoma cells.
------------------
Elamin MH, Shinwari Z, Hendrayani SF, Al-Hindi H, Al-Shail E, Khafaga Y, Al-Kofide A, Aboussekhra A.
Department of Biological and Medical Research, King Faisal Specialist Hospital and Research Center, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
Medulloblastoma is an aggressive primary brain tumor that arises in the cerebellum of children and young adults. The Sonic Hedgehog (Shh) signaling pathway that plays important roles in the pathology of this aggressive disease is a promising therapeutic target. In the present report we have shown that curcumin has cytotoxic effects on medulloblastoma cells. Curcumin suppressed also cell proliferation and triggered cell-cycle arrest at G(2)/M phase. Moreover, curcumin inhibited the Shh-Gli1 signaling pathway by downregulating the Shh protein and its most important downstream targets GLI1 and PTCH1. Furthermore, curcumin reduced the levels of beta-catenin, the activate/phosphorylated form of Akt and NF-kappaB, which led to downregulating the three common key effectors, namely C-myc, N-myc, and Cyclin D1. Consequently, apoptosis was triggered by curcumin through the mitochondrial pathway via downregulation of Bcl-2, a downstream anti-apoptotic effector of the Shh signaling. Importantly, the resistant cells that exhibited no decrease in the levels of Shh and Bcl-2, were sensitized to curcumin by the addition of the Shh antogonist, cyclopamine. Furthermore, we have shown that curcumin enhances the killing efficiency of nontoxic doses of cisplatin and gamma-rays. In addition, we present clear evidence that piperine, an enhancer of curcumin bioavailability in humans, potentiates the apoptotic effect of curcumin against medulloblastoma cells. This effect was mediated through strong downregulation of Bcl-2. These results indicate that curcumin, a natural nontoxic compound, represents great promise as Shh-targeted therapy for medulloblastomas.
#46
Posted 01 January 2013 - 06:30 PM
also, will take fish oil liquid omega 3, drink some green tea daily, and take vit d drops about 2000mg --don't have too much D not good for myeloma--we don't want too much excess calcium..and take no supplements that have calcium..
curious to know how you're doing and what your tests show with current supplements...thanks
#47
Posted 26 September 2013 - 10:54 PM
Edited by Adaptogen, 26 September 2013 - 10:55 PM.
#48
Posted 27 September 2013 - 04:24 PM
#49
Posted 27 September 2013 - 05:27 PM
i cooked up a big batch of turmeric/coconut oil/black pepper today. Had it over medium heat for a couple minutes to increase bioavailability, but for some reason a large portion of the turmeric seems undissolved and clumps up at the bottom. I used plenty of oil i think. Not really sure why it won't dissolve all the way
what ratio, pepper / turmeric? what would you recommend for curcumin/pepper? would you say that coconut oil is better than olive oil?
I have a whole pot of curcumin in a clear pot kept in a closet, would it be better stored in a fat/oil with black pepper? i read somewhere that light damages the curcumin.
Edited by nickdino, 27 September 2013 - 05:32 PM.
#50
Posted 27 September 2013 - 07:11 PM
Edited by Adaptogen, 27 September 2013 - 07:14 PM.
#51
Posted 27 September 2013 - 09:13 PM
i cooked up a big batch of turmeric/coconut oil/black pepper today. Had it over medium heat for a couple minutes to increase bioavailability, but for some reason a large portion of the turmeric seems undissolved and clumps up at the bottom. I used plenty of oil i think. Not really sure why it won't dissolve all the way
It's not dissolving because turmeric is a plant part that contains a bunch of insoluble fiber, along with a bunch of other stuff and also some curcumin. You'd probably have better luck if you start with pure curcumin powder.
#52
Posted 12 June 2015 - 09:22 AM
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