51 replies to this topic

[outsider]

Ok at last a real conversation about the glutamate system. Wow.



The glutamate/gaba brain system is THE central brain system. Glutamate is THE excitatory neurotransmitter that converts to Gaba, which is THE inhibitory neurotransmitter. At least from what I can understand.

The racetam family of molecules comes directly from Glutamate/Gaba. If you oxidize glutamine you can obtain l-pyroglutamic acid which is basically the piracetam molecule.

Now you understand why exercise is good for the mind. Doing exercise makes release glutamine in the blood for the other organs to benefit.

Vitamin B6 is important for the conversion of glutamate to Gaba.

Magnesium is important to balance the brain/glutamate so that glutamate is not over doing the nmda receptor. Magnesium is on of the most depleted minerals in this society. 250mg should be fine.

Glycine alosterically potentiate the nmda receptor.

Zinc alosterically down regulate the nmda receptor.

The acetylcholine system potentiate and (possibly) down regulate the glutamate system. (Nicotinic receptor potentiate the nmda receptor and the muscarinic receptor seems to down regulate the nmda receptor somewhat)

NMDA receptor seems to be the last gate keeper of the memory consolidation. Without the nmda no memory consoliddation is possible.

NMDA and AMPA works together thats why when you mix nefiracetam (works alosterically on the nmda) and aniracetam (works alosterically on the ampa) the effects seems to be magnified.

Fell free to agree or disagree.

[Thorsten3]

Hi guys

Wanna keep this thread going...

I've just necked 5g of L-Glutamine and already I notice an increase in energy. I did suspect that the supplement alone may be doing something in this respect.
Next up is the Piracetam. I've never dosed more than 1g per day with this stuff but it always gave me good results.

Here's how Piracetam usually effects me:

a)increased focus
b)increased attention
c)indirectly increased learning potential, probably from the frist two factors
d)nothing with memory, not from what I could gauge anyway
e)increased wellbeing, mental energy - it's like a buzz - can get hyper
f)increased dreaming/crazier dreaming
g)enhanced appreciation of colour/music (what causes this, I don't have a clue)

After week two:

These effects poop out, tolerance it seems comes into play.

I don't get headaches (even from higher doses), cholione supplementation doesn't help when it is working for me and it doesn't work when the effects are pooping out. All forms of choline supplements make me feel like crap, although I've never treid CDP (interests me as it has effects on DA recpetor density).


So what's the deal with L-Glutamine? 5g as I say has given me quite a noticable energy boost. I have just taken 1.5g of Piracetam and I am going to wait to see what this does. Do you guys supplement the glutamine many times per day or is one big whacking dose all you need?

[jlspartz]

Hi guys

Wanna keep this thread going...

I've just necked 5g of L-Glutamine and already I notice an increase in energy. I did suspect that the supplement alone may be doing something in this respect.
Next up is the Piracetam. I've never dosed more than 1g per day with this stuff but it always gave me good results.

Here's how Piracetam usually effects me:

a)increased focus
b)increased attention
c)indirectly increased learning potential, probably from the frist two factors
d)nothing with memory, not from what I could gauge anyway
e)increased wellbeing, mental energy - it's like a buzz - can get hyper
f)increased dreaming/crazier dreaming
g)enhanced appreciation of colour/music (what causes this, I don't have a clue)

After week two:

These effects poop out, tolerance it seems comes into play.

I don't get headaches (even from higher doses), cholione supplementation doesn't help when it is working for me and it doesn't work when the effects are pooping out. All forms of choline supplements make me feel like crap, although I've never treid CDP (interests me as it has effects on DA recpetor density).


So what's the deal with L-Glutamine? 5g as I say has given me quite a noticable energy boost. I have just taken 1.5g of Piracetam and I am going to wait to see what this does. Do you guys supplement the glutamine many times per day or is one big whacking dose all you need?

It's better to take Glutamine in 2 or 3 doses. When tolerance happens, do you feel depleted of something? I start to feel like I'm running on empty. When I stop taking it then I feel great again for a couple days, like the racetam effect is sustained but coupled with a natural refreshing feeling, with the racetam effects fading after a week. So, I feel as though it's more than just choline and glutamine that Piracetam is depleting. I take Piracetam with Oxiracetam also, usually 2.4g and 750mg respectively. I feel much better when taking in a large group of amino acids with them through protein shakes. I'm thinking of trying an all-in-one type amino acid formula. Any thoughts or suggestions on which one might be good?

[Ichoose2live]

I'll give L-Glutamine another chance after reading that.

All forms of choline supplements make me feel like crap, although I've never treid CDP (interests me as it has effects on DA recpetor density).

The only effects that I notice when taking CDP is a significant boost in libido and a slight increase in aggressiveness (maybe caused by the elevation of Blood Pressure).
http://www.sciencedi...5c&searchtype=a

[csrpj]

just got my l-glutamine and excited to try this out.

any thoughts of protocol? should i just try it by itself in various dosages, then try it combined with piracetam with various dosages? for those for whom this is working well, have you found an optimal protocol? anyone able to sustain piracetam "magic" without having to take long breaks by utilizing glutamine?

i will report back when i get a good idea of how it's working? (might take some time)

[chziime]

I read this thread on a bodybuilding forum before reading all this and it's all very interesting!

http://community.myp...utamine-37.html

This explains the best way to take L-Glutamine (in the morning on an empty stomach, mixed with water)

So, when should Piracetam be taken? About an hour later, along with a B-Complex and your first meal?

And me, personally... I do this glutamine regimen, then wait a little bit and take a B-Complex, dimethylglycine, fish oil and ashwaghanda (ashw. is a component of an awesome bodybuilding formula, Bioforge v3) just before my first meal. Would this time be the best time to take piracetam? I never supplement with choline, but my first meal is often 3-4 eggs.

[Thorsten3]

The past couple of days L-Glutamine supplementation has been bringing back the magic of Piracetam for me. Will this be the case long term? We'll have to see.

[Llama]

Interesting Thorsten2, keep us up to date!

[canz]

This is interesting. I take glutamine for bodybuilding purposes on occasion. I will start taking it everyday with my piracetam.

[Thorsten3]

I take 5g in the morning and then 5g again about 15.00ish... Piracetam is dosed 2g every 3-4 hrs..

[Thorsten3]

L-Glutamine definitely enhances the effect of Piracetam pretty considerably. As much as fish oil (or for some, choline). I would be interested in seeing what different effects I would get from L-Glutamic acid because isn't that the precurser to Glutmate in the brain? L-Glutamine turns to both GABA and Glutamate from what I can remember.

I suppose the L-Glutamine is pretty healthy stuff anyway and despite being the most abundant amino acid in the body is always required due to stores being depleted by stress and endurance,etc.

It's definitely going to be a keeper!

Edited by Thorsten2, 12 October 2011 - 03:07 PM.

[thedevinroy]

Has anybody tried pyroglutamic acid (pyroglutamate) with Piracetam or another racetam? It is structurally similar, but from what I understand, it is converted into glutamic acid. Just wondering the doses to achieve the same effect as L-Glutamine. I imagine less of a dose like around 1 gram.

Also, how is Glutamine at crossing the BBB?

Also, what ya'll know about pyroglutamate? I heard it can increase your need for cysteine and glycine (which can be derived from choline or TMG). This guy goes crazy against it: http://www.longecity...383#entry282383 But at the end of the thread, people begin to retaliate. It's a good read, but someone sucks at reformating after Ctrl+C & Ctrl+V which drives me nuts. I got through half of it.

Edited by devinthayer, 12 October 2011 - 05:42 PM.

[thedevinroy]

I also want to add that if you are concerned about excitotoxicity of glutamate, then you can use Gotu Kola or Valerian Root. Both Gotu Kola and Valerian root induce the enzyme, GAD, which will convert glutamate into GABA. Ginkgo is a competitive GABA blocker, so you can use that in varying amounts if Gotu Kola or Valerian Root is too sedating.

Edited by devinthayer, 12 October 2011 - 06:00 PM.

[thedevinroy]

More on Pyroglutamate: http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21519223 . It appears that Pyroglutamate is in elevated blood levels of those with decreased glutiathone levels. If this is a nootropic, you must go genius before you croak or go stupid I guess. It is used as an indicator of an unusual genetic disorder, "High Anion Gap Metabolic Acidosis" which can cause anemia and mental retardation as side effects.

[Thorsten3]

I stopped this trial. Whatever L-Glutamine was enhancing it seemed to be an illusion. Once I was able to disguinish the effects between Piracetam itself and L-Glutamine I noticed the effects of L-Glutamine were pretty individualistic. It seemed to enhance the colour appreciation somewhat and perhaps added a bit of energy. Nothing too amazing though, so I felt in the end this was more of a placebo type of effect. Piracetam still caused me to crash with chronic use. A substance best used PRN in my case.

[JChief]

@ canz & others,

How has L-glutamine worked in combination with piracetam? Any updates? I am thinking about trying it to see what its effects may be. Just wanted some additional input from others who have been down this road. Seems to be cheap enough to add to my current stack of Piracetam, Noopept, Sulbutiamine, etc.

Edited by JChief, 16 November 2011 - 11:45 AM.

[canz]

@ canz & others,

How has L-glutamine worked in combination with piracetam? Any updates? I am thinking about trying it to see what its effects may be. Just wanted some additional input from others who have been down this road. Seems to be cheap enough to add to my current stack of Piracetam, Noopept, Sulbutiamine, etc.

I couldn't really tell you. I've switched out from oxi, pir, and prami in the past three months, so I don't have an accurate account of what the results of taking glutamine have had.

[abelard lindsay]

Tyrosine gets converted to L-Dopa. L-Dopa if taken directly can cause tardive dyskenesia and other neurodegenerative conditions. The safety is in that the body controls how much Tyrosine and Phenylalanine get metabolised into L-Dopa. The same is probably true for glutamine getting metabolized into glutamate. Supplementing glutamate is dangerous and neurotoxic, but supplementing glutamine is fine because the metabolism from one to the other is controlled by the body's homeostasis.

Edited by abelard lindsay, 17 November 2011 - 05:10 AM.

[SuperjackDid_]

I think supplement glutamine also not safe ,i have some experience on it ,depress a lot next day,
i have switch to BCAA ,for systesis to glutamate as need,
BCAA also slow glutamate lost.


one thing when you have low glutamate or glutamine level in body ,glutathione also drop ,that why get bad piracetam effect .

[Gamerzneed]

This is my third day taking piracetam and am getting very subtle results, specifically anxiolytic effects. My thoughts are very broken up/unorganized which is the reason why I wanted to take nootropics in the first place. AFter reading the other pireactam thread about using glutamate and calcium to achieve full effects of piracetam I decided to try glutamine and just took 5g of glutamine an hour ago. Feeling kind of spacey and a little bit more brain fogged actually. Am not sure if this is the piracetam's effect or glutamine's effect on me but piracetam itself kind of fogs me. It's also kind of weird how the glutamine makes physical sense of energy exertion seem unrealistically nonexistant. My typing speed is majorly slowed and spelling error rate has gone way up though. Logic has gone way down and feel ever stupider than before. What am I doing wrong? Already tried plenty of milk (calcium source) and different amounts of dosing and nothing has helped enhance verbal fluency/color saturation/memory effects of piracetam.

[Introspecta]

Post this on the newer thread by Hyperspace. This is an old thread and you may not get much response here.

[SuperjackDid_]

Let me revisit L-glutamine ,BCAA or L-Glutamic seem give me neurotoxicity symptom .

L-glutamine might safer ,or this not worth a try ,tingling never gone anywhere ,please help me ,urgently need help .