351 replies to this topic

[TRUGAN]

It would be interesting to see if it makes the rats live 90% longer.

[Kevnzworld]

I've been reading more about MitoQ and have decided decided to add this to my regimen now that it's available, while reducing my C60oo to 15 mg per month. I had been reading about SKQ for years and I was surprised to find out its the same thing . I'm hoping that there is some synergism. There are more human studies with mitoQ, and the pool of knowledge somewhat larger regarding toxicity, side effects and effectiveness.
" Skulachev, who had pioneered the early work on the right-hand part of the molecule, picked up this thread early on, and has sponsored much of the research that has demonstrated the rejuvinating potential of the molecule. The molecular tugboat is known as a “Skulachev ion”, and the same molecule that is known as MitoQ in the English-speaking world is called SkQ in Russia."
http://hplusmagazine...targeted-coq10/

Edited by Kevnzworld, 28 February 2014 - 02:09 AM.

[niner]

I've been reading more about MitoQ and have decided decided to add this to my regimen now that it's available, while reducing my C60oo to 15 mg per month. I had been reading about SKQ for years and I was surprised to find out its the same thing . I'm hoping that there is some synergism. There are more human studies with mitoQ, and the pool of knowledge somewhat larger regarding toxicity, side effects and effectiveness.
" Skulachev, who had pioneered the early work on the right-hand part of the molecule, picked up this thread early on, and has sponsored much of the research that has demonstrated the rejuvinating potential of the molecule. The molecular tugboat is known as a "Skulachev ion", and the same molecule that is known as MitoQ in the English-speaking world is called SkQ in Russia."
http://hplusmagazine...targeted-coq10/

H+ didn't get that quite right- MitoQ and SkQ1 are similar, but not the same molecule. There have been more publications about these mitochondrial antioxidants than c60-oo, but I'll bet c60-oo has been in more humans. MitoQ hasn't been widely available until recently, and as far as I can tell, there isn't much of a market for it. On the other hand, c60-oo has been in multiple thousands of humans, but the only paper I'm aware of is Baati.

Would there be synergism? Hard to say. I can see commonalities between MitoQ, SkQ1, and c60-oo. I don't see an obvious route to synergy, but you never know. Post your results.

[PWAIN]

Looks like the MitoQ supplement pill is available now ( http://www.mitoq.com/ ) but at $60 per month supply it would need to be pretty good. Also not sure how much would be best since they say testing has been up to 80mg a day and the monthly supply above is at 10mg per day. Maybe worth getting and going with just 5mg a day and stretch it out to 2 months.

[sthira]

Is anyone taking MitoQ? And have you noticed anything?

[Kevnzworld]

I've been taking 5 mg per day of MitoQ, with no discernible effect, though I wasn't looking for or expecting one.
I still take 200 mg of ubiquinone, and from reading the following, that's a good idea. This is a reply to Josh Mitteldorfs blog
from Vladamir Skulachev..( the originator of the MitoQ mechanism and SKQ )
" (1) MitoQ cannot be regarded as a mitochondria-targeted form CoQ or CoQ precursor since it cannot replace CoQ in its master function, i.e. as a respiratory chain electron carrier. MitoQ can be reduced to MitoQH2 by the initial respiratory chain complexes I and II but MitoQH2 is very slowly oxidized by the next respiratory chain complex III. Moreover, MitoQ cannot be decomposed in a way resulting in CoQ release. This is why MitoQ can hardly help when CoQ level is lowered by aging or statin. As to another function of CoQ as an antioxidant, MitoQ is not the best one since the window between anti- and prooxidant concentrations of MitoQ is as small as several times. For SkQ (a MitoQ analog with plastoquinone instead of CoQ), this window is much larger (30 or even 1 000 times, depending on the method of measurement of this parameter). This is why plants use plastoquinone in chloroplasts (the O2-producing organelles) and CoQ in mitochondria (the O2-consuming organelles where the O2 level and hence, the oxidative stress, is always much lower than in chloroplasts).
Vladamir Skulachev "
http://joshmitteldor...targeted-coq10/

Edited by Kevnzworld, 26 March 2014 - 05:12 PM.

[Gerald W. Gaston]

A few months ago I ordered the 3 bottle special plus the serum +1 bottle combo of MitQ. So I've been taking it over a month now. Like Kevnzworld I still take CoQ10. I also take Niagen (started same time as MitQ). And for about the past 4 months now ~1mg/day C60oo (was taken this much earlier and ran out for about 6 months), 40mg PQQ, and a few other mitochondria targeted supplements. I can say in the last couple of months my performance at the gym has improved as well as my over all feeling of good health. Can't say what if anything MitQ is doing (or really any of the other stuff... it could all be an expense placebo). I do have some initial (but not comprehensive) blood work and vitals/measurements from 6 months ago and plan to compare again at the 6 month mark.

[PWAIN]

Is anyone taking MitoQ? And have you noticed anything?

I should be getting my 1gram soon and then I'll report back. Also still looking into sourcing SkQ1.

[niner]

Skulachev's comment about the small window of concentration between anti- and pro-oxidant behavior for MitoQ is a little worrying. It's only fair to note that he has a financial interest in his own compounds, and MitoQ is a competitor, if I'm not mistaken. The fact that MitoQ isn't a replacement for CoQ10 doesn't mean you necessarily need to supplement CoQ10. It just means that if you needed supplemental ubiquinone before MitoQ, then you'll still need it after MitoQ. Similarly, if you didn't need it before, you shouldn't need it after.

[PWAIN]

I received my 1 gram today. Looks like a lot more than a gram. Anyone know what this stuff is supposed to look like?  mitoq.jpg   63.4KB   14 downloads

[blood]

I received my 1 gram today.

Who made it?

[PWAIN]

Sun Nootropics ( http://www.vosunchem.com/ ). Hoping to get some Skq1 from them as well at some point.

[niner]

I received my 1 gram today. Looks like a lot more than a gram. Anyone know what this stuff is supposed to look like?

Ubiquinone is yellow. The rest of the molecule is probably colorless- at least triphenylphosphine and decane are, on their own. The cosmetic version of MitoQ is described as light yellow. How big is that bag? If it's a sandwich bag, then you got a hell of a deal! I'm guessing it's smaller... I wouldn't expect that molecule to be very dense. Do you have a milligram scale? If you have more than you want to use orally, you could always put it in a skin cream.

[PWAIN]

I tried weighing it including the plastic bag and it came to 4.6grams (so probably somewhere between 4 and 4.5 grams of powder). The powder is a bit clumped together making me think it might have been sitting around for a while. I have taken 2 tiny doses and will gradually ramp up a bit.

[xEva]

Wow, this is a really nice result. They got a very nice knock-down of disease in a rodent model. Inflammatory bowel disease (IBD, not IBS, which is a much milder condition) is a pretty horrible condition and the current treatment is tons of corticosteroids that have a lot of nasty side effects of their own. An exciting aspect of this is that rather than waiting a decade for MitoQ to become available, you could just take C60 instead, which would probably work better anyway.

Some researchers think that IBD is due to insufficient production of antimicrobial peptides (AMPs). Normally, mucous layer is soaked with AMPs which kill bacteria on contact. This creates a barrier that prevents microorganisms from getting access to the host intestinal epithelium. Broken or insufficient barrier results in inflammation.

Now, ubiquinone (or CoQ10 on which MitoQ is based) was shown "essential for normal induction of anti-microbial peptides". http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21518260

So it's doubtful that C60-oo would work on IBD quite the same, unless it too induces AMPs production -?


I wonder what gwgaston's experience was with both substances.

[niner]

Some researchers think that IBD is due to insufficient production of antimicrobial peptides (AMPs). Normally, mucous layer is soaked with AMPs which kill bacteria on contact. This creates a barrier that prevents microorganisms from getting access to the host intestinal epithelium. Broken or insufficient barrier results in inflammation.

Now, ubiquinone (or CoQ10 on which MitoQ is based) was shown "essential for normal induction of anti-microbial peptides". http://www.ncbi.nlm....pubmed/21518260

So it's doubtful that C60-oo would work on IBD quite the same, unless it too induces AMPs production -?

I wonder what gwgaston's experience was with both substances.

That was in flies, probably in mutants that were defective in CoQ production. I really don't think that MitoQ is related to AMP production. Once you hook a big hydrophobic cation on the molecule, its character is rather profoundly changed. FWIW it's really more like Idebenone than ubiquinone, because the linker is decyl instead of isoprenyl. At any rate, the animals with the IBD model surely had normal levels of ordinary ubiquinone. The reason that I think c60-oo might work similarly is that I suspect it is a mitochondrial antioxidant, as is MitoQ.

It's pretty hard to say what gwgaston's results are due to, as there were multiple mitochondrial compounds involved. The improved performance in the gym and sense of well-being have been reported by users of more than one of those compounds individually.

[xEva]

That was in flies, probably in mutants that were defective in CoQ production. I really don't think that MitoQ is related to AMP production. Once you hook a big hydrophobic cation on the molecule, its character is rather profoundly changed. FWIW it's really more like Idebenone than ubiquinone, because the linker is decyl instead of isoprenyl. At any rate, the animals with the IBD model surely had normal levels of ordinary ubiquinone. The reason that I think c60-oo might work similarly is that I suspect it is a mitochondrial antioxidant, as is MitoQ.

It's pretty hard to say what gwgaston's results are due to, as there were multiple mitochondrial compounds involved. The improved performance in the gym and sense of well-being have been reported by users of more than one of those compounds individually.

Re "That was in flies": AMPs are the the most ancient form of "immunity" shared by all eukaryotes, so whatever works for flies works for mammals too.

Of course I don't know how MitoQ, idebenone or ubiquinone are metabolized but it's the cation part that makes a peptide an AMP. ..and it's not uncommon for a compound to have multiple roles in metabolism, so it could be both mitochondrial antioxidant and essential for induction of AMPs


Re gwgaston, from his post I surmised that he had issues with IBS so I thought, if MitoQ helped it more than C60oo, that would be interesting.

[niner]

That was in flies, probably in mutants that were defective in CoQ production. I really don't think that MitoQ is related to AMP production. Once you hook a big hydrophobic cation on the molecule, its character is rather profoundly changed. FWIW it's really more like Idebenone than ubiquinone, because the linker is decyl instead of isoprenyl. At any rate, the animals with the IBD model surely had normal levels of ordinary ubiquinone. The reason that I think c60-oo might work similarly is that I suspect it is a mitochondrial antioxidant, as is MitoQ.

It's pretty hard to say what gwgaston's results are due to, as there were multiple mitochondrial compounds involved. The improved performance in the gym and sense of well-being have been reported by users of more than one of those compounds individually.

Re "That was in flies": AMPs are the the most ancient form of "immunity" shared by all eukaryotes, so whatever works for flies works for mammals too.

Of course I don't know how MitoQ, idebenone or ubiquinone are metabolized but it's the cation part that makes a peptide an AMP. ..and it's not uncommon for a compound to have multiple roles in metabolism, so it could be both mitochondrial antioxidant and essential for induction of AMPs

Re gwgaston, from his post I surmised that he had issues with IBS so I thought, if MitoQ helped it more than C60oo, that would be interesting.

If it was the case in normal flies, that would be a data point, but the abstract mentioned coq2 mutants. I don't have the full text, though. There are just so many 'ifs' in this AMP idea- ubiquinone is purportedly required for AMP induction, but MitoQ isn't ubiquinone, and we already have actual ubiquinone in our membranes. The mouse IBD result was a disease model that may or may not represent human IBD. gwgaston didn't have IBD, he had IBS (as have I, in the past) and had already gotten rid of it before starting any of these compounds (see post #23). IBD and IBS are entirely different diseases with very different mechanisms- they really don't have much in common.

[PWAIN]

I have not been expecting to feel anything withthis supplement....

Well I've been gradually ramping up the dose I take. Started on Sat with what was probably around 2mg or less. On Sunday probably took somewhere between 10 and 30mg and gave a fairly large dose to a dog to check for safety. Last night (Monday) I took somewhere between 50 and 80mg. BAM!!!!! I suddenly realise that I felt very relaxed and calm with an overall good feeling, not quite euphoria but more a sense of contentment and warmth. I took a bit more just before bed and some this morning and have experienced a sense of calm contentment but at a much lower level ever since. I feel better in myself, less tired, more clear headed and more in control. My social skills seem to have gone up a notch too but that could just be coincidence.

So far, I'm loving this stuff but the taste is aweful!! I'll keep updating here as I get more experience with this stuff.

[niner]

Well I've been gradually ramping up the dose I take. Started on Sat with what was probably around 2mg or less. On Sunday probably took somewhere between 10 and 30mg and gave a fairly large dose to a dog to check for safety. Last night (Monday) I took somewhere between 50 and 80mg. BAM!!!!! I suddenly realise that I felt very relaxed and calm with an overall good feeling, not quite euphoria but more a sense of contentment and warmth. I took a bit more just before bed and some this morning and have experienced a sense of calm contentment but at a much lower level ever since. I feel better in myself, less tired, more clear headed and more in control. My social skills seem to have gone up a notch too but that could just be coincidence.

Good to hear that it's doing something. Or at least that it feels good. I don't really know how to interpret it mechanistically, though. Some things to watch for would be effects on performance in the gym and impact on your response to alcohol. Keep us posted.

[PWAIN]

I received a bottle of Niagen yesterday and took a couple of caps. Didn't really notice anything, maybe slightly nauseous and a bit unpleasant generally but that might have been something unrelated.

I decided that it may be a good idea to try sublingual to get as much out of a limited supply as possible. I opened a cap and poured the contents under my tongue. After a while, it dissolved. I started to notice that my mouth/jaw was aching, kinda like I had a major head cold. It was quite intense and certainly something I would like to avoid.

This aching persisted but I decided that I wanted to try some more of the MitoQ I recently acquired so I popped some of that under my tongue. In a couple of minutes, I found that teh aching subsided and eventually disappeared. I didn't link the two at first.

Later I decided to take 3 more Niagen caps sublingually. I tipped all 3 under my tongue and aching came back very strongly. It was very unpleasant. Once it finally dissolved, I decided to take more of the MitoQ because I was now suspecting that this may have helped the first time. It helped again and was a big relief because I don't think I could continue to take Niagen sublingually without this relief.

I am not sure why Niagen causes such pain and discomfort. Perhaps the molecule is very big or maybe it reacts with the nerves or something like that. I also don’t understand why the MitoQ reverses this, could it be the stuff it is buffered with?

I would be very interested to find out more, what are others experiences?

[tintinet]

I've been taking Niagen (2 caps q AM) for months. Never noticed any effects, but I haven't tried higher doses yet.

[PWAIN]

I've been taking Niagen (2 caps q AM) for months. Never noticed any effects, but I haven't tried higher doses yet.

Have you tried it sublingual? I am keen to know if I'm the only one who experiences pain/aching. What dose are you taking? How old and fit are you? I think like most things, it will be more noticable in people who are not in optimal health and are a bit older.

[tintinet]

Haven't tried SL, but I will tomorrow AM, before doing P90X. I'm fit enough for that, most days, at least!

Edited by tintinet, 02 April 2014 - 12:58 AM.

[niner]

Wasn't the oral bioavailability of NR supposed to be pretty good? I wouldn't expect a riboside to be a good transdermal compound, but it should be ok in the gut. I can't think of any obvious reason why it should make your jaw hurt if you do it sublingually, but pain is usually the body's way of telling us something ain't right. I'd just swallow it.

[sthira]

Thank you for sharing your experiences, Pwain. I've been thinking about experimenting with mitoq but I'm not sure. Regarding niagen, I've been taking about 250 mg per day, and I've found my depression has really reared up its ugly head. Would there be any mechanistic speculation as to why niagen might exacerbate the blues, or maybe it's just placebo?

[tintinet]

Took 2 Niagen tabs SL this AM, plus 2 more PO. No pain. Felt a bit revved up and grumpy this AM, but confident and self assured. Maybe just because the sun was shining and the stock market has been up for the past couple of days. Will repeat manana.

Edited by tintinet, 03 April 2014 - 01:28 AM.

[gregmacpherson]

Hi All, I am the CEO of MitoQ. I found your thread and thought I would check in to see if there are any specific questions you might have.  I have applied for a sponsored thread and will start the conversation there once it is activated. 

<br>

We had some interesting research published this week.  I am unable to post links so please Google "Novel antioxidant makes old arteries seem young again, CU-Boulder study finds" - if of interest. 

<br> 

It is great to see interest in our compound here.  We are getting some good feedback from people taking MitoQ, especially those with some specific neurodegenerative conditions. 

<br>

As mentioned above, happy to answer any specific questions. 

<br>

Best regards,  Greg

 

[TRUGAN]

Here it is:

 

http://www.scienceda...40506094940.htm

 

 

but Im curious is 10mg enough to do anything for humans?

Edited by mrwhitee, 07 May 2014 - 05:17 AM.

[gregmacpherson]

Hi, yes, 10mg will have an effect. 

 

It just depends on your goals.   10mg will give extra energy,  correct oxidative stress imbalances and improve mitochondrial function. 

 

20mg can be used for those looking to accelerate the above or if someone has a condition associated with oxidative stress (diabetes, MS etc) and is looking to support the condition. 

 

I take 20mg and it is plenty (44yo male with an autoimmune condition).

 

Doses above this may deliver further benefit but with diminishing returns vs cost. 

 

FYI some folk see benefit with just 5mg.