96 replies to this topic

[chrono]

haha, how badly indeed? Great post, I like your thinking

From that Physical Therapy article, it sounds like iontophoresis delivers drugs to a localized area via passage of a solvent:

Another primary means by which ions and other substances traverse the skin during iontophoresis is via the passage
of a solvent, carrying with it other dissolved substances, through the skin under the Influence of direct current. This process been termed iontohydmkinesis.
...
...This greater migration seems to drag the solvent through the skin, carrying with it any dissolved substance.

I'm not sure how much I like the idea of electricity dragging a solvent through my eyeballs. As this ROA is designed to keep the medication localized, rather than circulating systemically, it seems like there's a good chance all the magnesium would stay clumped in the optic nerve, and not make it into the right areas of the brain to enhance cognition.

Unless there are other refs indicating it can be used to deliver medications systemically, or bypassing the BBB...

[aLurker]

Still no commercial sources for magnesium-L-threonate that I know of.
Here is the full article though. My juvenile sensibilities found it most amusing that the main author is called Inna "Slutsky". ;D

One thing that strikes me here is that they don't mention magnesium taurate. If it is more effective it would make sense to neglect it out of commercial interest but perhaps it is just too esoteric for them to mention. I can't seem to find much about it except what's already been discussed in this thread. Any idea how magnesium taurate or other forms would compare to the rest here? Would taking magnesium sublingually be more effective than oral consumption to increase brain levels of magnesium?

Edited by aLurker, 12 November 2010 - 08:31 PM.

[aLurker]

Hmm couldn't really find much about it but this doctor says sublingual is pointless although he doesn't really mention any sources for his statements.

The only form of magnesium that has been show to be effective acutely (for aborting a Migraine) is magnesium sulfate via IV infusion.

Get your own needles because I'm not sharing.

[chrono]

My juvenile sensibilities found it most amusing that the main author is called Inna "Slutsky". ;D

I definitely noticed this as well; it reminded me of my favorite episode of Drawn Together (the roleplaying one), where Princess Clara dresses up as a cheerleader named Mary-Lou Slutsky.

One thing that strikes me here is that they don't mention magnesium taurate. If it is more effective it would make sense to neglect it out of commercial interest but perhaps it is just too esoteric for them to mention. I can't seem to find much about it except what's already been discussed in this thread. Any idea how magnesium taurate or other forms would compare to the rest here?

Yeah, magnesium taurate is pretty esoteric. But my current thinking is that there really isn't much advantage over taking taurine separately. Or at least, none that has been demonstrated, or even suggested in the hypothetical musings in the papers we discussed in that thread. But I guess there's a chance that it crosses the BBB better (or worse!) than other forms.

If there's a way to predict how well different salts will cross the BBB, I'm not aware of it. And additionally, the brain (CSF) levels don't seem to correspond very well with all measures of intelligence improvement in the figures I posted above, so even gluconate doesn't seem like it would necessarily be advantageous.

Would taking magnesium sublingually be more effective than oral consumption to increase brain levels of magnesium?

Hmm couldn't really find much about it but this doctor says sublingual is pointless although he doesn't really mention any sources for his statements.

It seems theoretically possible, but what makes this seem unrealistic to me is the huge dosages involved. Sublingual absorption is usually employed for single-digit mg quantities of drugs, but I don't know what the realistic limit is. I'd guess that it's far less than 200-400mg of magnesium, let alone the 2-4g total material present in a dose of a salt.

The only form of magnesium that has been show to be effective acutely (for aborting a Migraine) is magnesium sulfate via IV infusion.

Get your own needles because I'm not sharing.

I vaguely recall from my research this spring that IV sulfate isn't actually much more bioavailable, just faster. I could be misremembering, though.

Edited by chrono, 15 November 2010 - 09:53 AM.

[John Barleycorn]

If there's a way to predict how well different salts will cross the BBB, I'm not aware of it.

Conventional wisdom is that the less polarity, the better the passive diffusion across a lipidic membrane. Polarity is typically reduced by grafting on an organic chain to a more polar compound, with a common example being acetylation. In principle, if the dialectric constant of a salt or drug can be measured, then its diffusion can be predicted, although water solubility could be a rough enough guide. I assume a taurinate would be less polar than an inorganic Mg salt, but not significantly less polar than other chelated amino acid forms, or even some carboxylate salts like malate, citrate or gluconate.

At this point, I must confess to being hazy about whether or not active transport occurs across the BBB, but it certainly occurs in the gut. For that reason, I have sometimes wondered wehether chelation with an essential amino like lyseine would be more effective than with the more common glyceine. The ultimate non-polar compound could in fact be Mg stearate (ie, supplement filler), but delivering it to the BBB in the first place could be a tricky proposition. There was a recent thread about that round here.

[mlt500]

If people are still interested, my partner and I are working to bring Magnesium l-threonate to the US. For more details, see here.

It's a big investment so we're gathering names for an interest list - the more people who sign up, the sooner we will be able to launch, so if you are interested please let your friends know.

[magnesium]

It's coming
http://www.transworl... (6-9-2011).htm


http://www.magceutics.com/

[MrHappy]

It's coming
http://www.transworl... (6-9-2011).htm


http://www.magceutics.com/

Or... you could just buy in bulk:
http://www.alibaba.c..._Threonate.html

[MrSpud]

AIDP sells it in bulk in US http://www.naturalpr...ain-health.aspx

[noos]

Why not use magnesium pidolate?

http://www.cureself....ate_FALL_03.pdf

[matter_of_time]

Wondering why nobody is talking about this stuff, it made a huge difference for me. I take a teaspoon every morning and I am totally balanced, great motivation and concentration. It combines perfectly with piracetam/oxiracetam (fish oil).
Strange thing is that I am more motivated during exercising, and dont have any muscle pains afterwards.

[MrHappy]

I would if I could buy it! What is your source?

[choqueiro]

What source are you taking matter_of_time??
MrSpud I can´t see that AIDP sells Magnesium L-Threonate in bulk?? Could you put the link??

[matter_of_time]

Cerebral health

[choqueiro]

Hi matter_of_time

Could you tell us a little bit more about your experiences with Magnesium L-threonate??
Any improvements in short and long memory?? Concentration increased??
How much are you taking and at what time do you take it??

Thanks so much.

[Len Jones]

Hi matter_of_time

I would certainly like more details.

Is it a level teaspoon or a heaped teaspoon and is there any possibility of getting the weight in grams. How much do you weigh and for how long have you been taking MgT?
Are you mixing it with water or what. Do you notice a laxative effect.

Most importantly, has there been any change in your ability to memorize or recall things? If this is happening can you pleas give examples,

There are a lot of people who are very interested in your answers.

Thanks

[APBT]

Sure enough Cerebral Health does list Magnesium L-Threonate in their bulk section (100 grams @ $45, 1kilogram $395). But........

http://www.scienceda...00222162011.htm

Before the new compound becomes commercially available, Dr. Slutsky advises people to get their magnesium the old-fashioned way -- by eating lots of green leaves, broccoli, almonds, cashews and fruit. The effects on memory won't appear overnight, she cautions, but with this persistent change in diet, memory should improve, and the effects of dementia and other cognitive impairment diseases related to aging may be considerably delayed.

Granted that write up on Science Daily was from February 2010 but, I couldn't find any other source of MgT. So, I'm left wondering, is this the real deal from Cerebral Health?

[APBT]

The link in post #36 indicates weak market interest in the product.

Hello,
Thank you for your interest in Magnesium L-Threonate and MLT500. At the current time, there is not enough of a market interest to bring MLT500 to the market place. We will continue the process of accessing the market place to determine if in the future, MLT500, will be a successful product in the market. At the current time we will not be bringing MLT500 to the market place. If you have any specific questions, please feel free to email us.
For all those that have prepaid a deposit, we are working on providing your refunds back as soon as we can. Please feel free to contact us in regards to your refund status.
Thank you once again for your interest in MLT500.
Regards,
MLT500 Team

[choqueiro]

Hi APBT.

I don´t think so. The MLT500 Team seems to be a particular initiative to import Magnesium L-Threonate to the United States (maybe buying the product from chinese suppliers). Nowadays they are trying to return the money to those that advanced it (it does not offer me any confidence).

I think that the problem with MLT500 Team is not the weak market. The problem is that they not offer any advantages because the product is going to be in the market soon.

Sabre Sciences sells his products "iMagT" and "iMagT Plus" for several months and "Cerebral Health" now sells MgT in bulk (I don´t know who are they suppliers. Chinese chemical companies??).

But the most important is that AIDP Inc. has the exclusive distribution rights (see: http://www.naturalpr...ain-health.aspx). In June I sent an e-mail to AIDP asking for the future commercialization of products with Magtein compound (MgT). This is what they answer me:

"We are the exclusive distributor for Magtein™ and sell only to manufacturers. It should be available to consumers in late summer to early fall.

Kathy Lund
AIDP, Inc.
Director Business Development & Marketing
303-734-0860 "

So if that information is correct the product will be available in few weeks (apart from the "non officials" suppliers as "Cerebaral Health or "Sabre Sciences").

Sorry for my bad english.

[zorba990]

http://www.bonanza.c...-26-99/39865054 any good?

[MrSpud]

"MrSpud I can´t see that AIDP sells Magnesium L-Threonate in bulk?? Could you put the link??"

Yeah, it is funny. If you go to AIDP's website you can't find any mention of it. Yet it is easy to find press releases about it if you google it. They even claim to have self affirmed it as GRAS (generally recognized as safe). I also know that they are planning a big promotion at Supplyside West, a big trade show in Las Vegas, next October. I imagine at least some companies will be selling it after that promotion. I managed to get my hands on a sample of their Magtein (AIDP brand name for Mag threonate) in capsules and I been taking it for about a week instead of the Magnesium taurate I was taking. I'm not sure if I can tell the difference or not. It's hard for me to tell the individual effects of anything because I take so many other supplements and I have also been trying a couple of other things recently that are new to me.

I do know that they are already willing to sell to manufacturers. Perhaps Cerebral Health is buying it from them?

Edited by MrSpud, 05 September 2011 - 07:56 PM.

[choqueiro]

I sent an e-mail to "Cerebral Health" asking if "AIDP. Inc" is their supplier of MgT. This is what they answer me:

"no they are not our supplier".

I sent another e-mail asking if they could tell me the name of their supplier. No answer from "Cerebral Health". Maybe they buy it from chinese suppliers??

If AIDP Inc. is the exclusive distributor of "Magtein" (Magnesium L-threonate) how can "Cerebral Health" be selling MgT from another supplier??

It is normal that a company don´t reveal the identity of their suppliers to their consumers??

[MrSpud]

I dunno. Maybe they don't want to get into a legal battle with AIDP or something.There are sometimes patent disputes between companies selling supplement raw materials that end up as legal battles. For example, Kaneka is currently trying to block other companies from selling CoQ10 because they have a patent, but the other companies say that Kaneka's patent doesn't really block them from making and selling it too. They are having battles in court right now. It might be something like that with whatever company Cerebral Health is sourcing from.

[niner]

If AIDP Inc. is the exclusive distributor of "Magtein" (Magnesium L-threonate) how can "Cerebral Health" be selling MgT from another supplier??

It is normal that a company don´t reveal the identity of their suppliers to their consumers??

AIDP may be the exclusive distributor of "Magtein", but that's just a particular version of Magnesium L-threonate. Unless AIDP has a patent on mag threonate, I don't think they could stop someone from using it in a product, but they could prevent them from calling it "Magtein".

The identity of a raw material supplier might be considered a trade secret by a supplement house. In some cases, a branded raw material is considered a selling point. If a compound is widely available, then a material with trusted quality would be something they would advertise. If a compound is difficult to source, and mag threonate might fall into that category, then the company probably isn't going to say where they're getting it. In that case, you have to rely on the reputation of the people who bottle and sell it, as far as the quality of their product goes.

[MrSpud]

http://www.freepaten...20110020443.pdf FYI - In case anybody wants to view the patent application

Edited by MrSpud, 10 September 2011 - 04:00 AM.

[MrSpud]

After looking at the patent application quickly it looks like it might be only for time released Magnesium threonate tablets and maybe not other dosage forms. Also, it is just an application and not a granted patent yet. The patent application is the only one I could find for Magceutics, the company that AIDP is getting the Magtein from. They might have other applications submitted though that aren't published yet, but they would also just be patent applications and not granted patents.

Edited by MrSpud, 10 September 2011 - 04:04 PM.

[choqueiro]

No answer from Cerebral Health about their supplier of MgT. Cerebral Health doesn´t inspire confindence. Read:

http://www.naturalpr...gmp-review.aspx

http://www.nutraingr...-GMP-inspection

[mrak1979]

Anybody know the optimal daily dose for MgT and if is should be taken with fats?

[noos]

Wondering why nobody is talking about this stuff, it made a huge difference for me. I take a teaspoon every morning and I am totally balanced, great motivation and concentration. It combines perfectly with piracetam/oxiracetam (fish oil).
Strange thing is that I am more motivated during exercising, and dont have any muscle pains afterwards.

How would you compare it to other salts of Mg? Thanks.

[nameless]

Swanson's sells Magtein now and I expect other supplement companies to follow suit.

I have some general questions, however, before I'd even consider it:

How safe are increased magnesium levels in the brain? Has it ever been measured for other forms of magnesium?

How safe is L-threonate for that matter, at the doses typically found in MgT?

Is there a single human study with MgT?

I believe it has GRAS status and the European Food Safety Authority is fine with Calcium L-threonate, so it's unlikely to have any short term nastiness. Long term is what would concern me though.