96 replies to this topic

[rashlan]

Hi matter_of_time

I would certainly like more details.

Is it a level teaspoon or a heaped teaspoon and is there any possibility of getting the weight in grams. How much do you weigh and for how long have you been taking MgT?
Are you mixing it with water or what. Do you notice a laxative effect.

Most importantly, has there been any change in your ability to memorize or recall things? If this is happening can you pleas give examples,

There are a lot of people who are very interested in your answers.

Thanks

Actually i've noticed a laxative effect. Is there a reason that it would produce this?

[noos]

Actually i've noticed a laxative effect. Is there a reason that it would produce this?

Like all Mg.

[rashlan]

does taking it with food stop it?

[zorba990]

I tried LEF's Mag Threonate. Just one pill (instead of three) at bedtime. I find it too sedating for me. After 91/2 hrs of sleep I'm still very sleepy this morning. Possibly a little constipating (just delayed not missed) which is pretty unusual for both me and magnesium!
Might use on occasional basis when I can really sleep in - or perhaps I will adapt. I like my energy, though....

[noos]

does taking it with food stop it?

I am not sure but I would say no. Try a smaller dose until you adapt.

[mag1]

Two weeks ago, I took the recommended dose of 2000 mg Magnesium L-Threonate containing 144 mg magnesium just before lunch.
I collapsed half an hour later. During my 5 - 10 minutes of unconsciousness, my arms became completely limp. It was terrifying.

After I vomited, I recovered very quickly. Within one hour, I had returned to normal. I have continued in my normal recovered state since then.

The Magnesium L-Threonate was the only deviation from my daily routine on the day of the incident. I have a history of falls and have had incidents
that were vaguely similar to my recent one. However, the previous incidents were much less severe. In the past, I might have fallen and felt groggy.
In the recent incident, I lost all muscle tone in my arms for approximately 5 minutes and I appeared to be unconscious.

The symptoms that I had appear similar to those described for hypermagnesemia.
Could I have developed hypermagnesemia from only 144 mg of magnesium?

I am still very scared about this incident. How dangerous was this incident?

Edited by mag1, 28 January 2012 - 04:27 PM.

[DbCooper]

Two weeks ago, I took the recommended dose of 2000 mg Magnesium L-Threonate containing 144 mg magnesium just before lunch.
I collapsed half an hour later. During my 5 - 10 minutes of unconsciousness, my arms became completely limp. It was terrifying.

After I vomited, I recovered very quickly. Within one hour, I had returned to normal. I have continued in my normal recovered state since then.

The Magnesium L-Threonate was the only deviation from my daily routine on the day of the incident. I have a history of falls and have had incidents
that were vaguely similar to my recent one. However, the previous incidents were much less severe. In the past, I might have fallen and felt groggy.
In the recent incident, I lost all muscle tone in my arms for approximately 5 minutes and I appeared to be unconscious.

The symptoms that I had appear similar to those described for hypermagnesemia.
Could I have developed hypermagnesemia from only 144 mg of magnesium?

I am still very scared about this incident. How dangerous was this incident?

I can't say for sure especially since you've had a history of this type of thing. However, I now know that I can only handle one of the LEF MgT pills per day. One pill of MgT gives me all the effects that 2000mg of Mag citrate does and then some. My gut feeling on this is that standard Mg is not as easily absorbed especially in people with leaky gut, yet MgT seem to get super absorbed. Although mental clarity is a noticable effect, I have found that my complete lack of DOMS is unbelievable now.

I was always told that L-Glutamine was the supp to use for Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness, but MgT absolutely blows it out of the water. Of course this could indicate that i was simply lacking Magnesium I suppose.

[niner]

Two weeks ago, I took the recommended dose of 2000 mg Magnesium L-Threonate containing 144 mg magnesium just before lunch. I collapsed half an hour later. During my 5 - 10 minutes of unconsciousness, my arms became completely limp. It was terrifying.

After I vomited, I recovered very quickly. Within one hour, I had returned to normal. I have continued in my normal recovered state since then.

The Magnesium L-Threonate was the only deviation from my daily routine on the day of the incident. I have a history of falls and have had incidents that were vaguely similar to my recent one. However, the previous incidents were much less severe. In the past, I might have fallen and felt groggy. In the recent incident, I lost all muscle tone in my arms for approximately 5 minutes and I appeared to be unconscious.

The symptoms that I had appear similar to those described for hypermagnesemia.
Could I have developed hypermagnesemia from only 144 mg of magnesium?

I am still very scared about this incident. How dangerous was this incident?

It seems likely that the MagT triggered this event. I don't think that you would necessarily see a systemic hypermagnesemia from it, but the big difference here might be the amount that gets into the brain. The history of falls and incidents vaguely similar to this one seems pretty important; have you brought those up with your doctor? Any history of epilepsy? If you haven't already done so, I'd talk to a doctor about this, with particular focus on your history rather than the most recent event. If you just say you took MagT and passed out, they might just tell you not to take it any more and send you on your way. I think there's something underlying this that the MagT happened to trigger, and it would be good to know what it is.

[sapentia]

Two weeks ago, I took the recommended dose of 2000 mg Magnesium L-Threonate containing 144 mg magnesium just before lunch.
I collapsed half an hour later. During my 5 - 10 minutes of unconsciousness, my arms became completely limp. It was terrifying.

After I vomited, I recovered very quickly. Within one hour, I had returned to normal. I have continued in my normal recovered state since then.

The Magnesium L-Threonate was the only deviation from my daily routine on the day of the incident. I have a history of falls and have had incidents
that were vaguely similar to my recent one. However, the previous incidents were much less severe. In the past, I might have fallen and felt groggy.
In the recent incident, I lost all muscle tone in my arms for approximately 5 minutes and I appeared to be unconscious.

The symptoms that I had appear similar to those described for hypermagnesemia.
Could I have developed hypermagnesemia from only 144 mg of magnesium?

I am still very scared about this incident. How dangerous was this incident?

I also take magnesium threonate in the dosage you indicated, but I have never experienced any negative symptoms. It is my understanding that MgT supposedly increases blood flow to the brain. It is possible that if this is the case an increase in blood flow to the brain could cause undesireable effects in certain individuals. This is all speculation of course.

[mag1]

I should clarify my personal circumstances. I have severe Alzheimer's dementia, and I took Magnesium L-Threonate
in order to boost my cognitive abilities.

It might have been dangerous for me to take this supplement because I have very low levels of acetylcholine in my brain
(due to the Alzheimer's). I have read that hypermagnesemia leads to impairment of neuromuscular transmission from
inhibition of acetylcholine. If the Magnesium L-Threonate decreased my acetylcholine levels even slightly I would be in
serious danger.

I am concerned that Magnesium L-Threonate is now being marketed to Alzheimer patients. Alzheimer patients have
frequent problems with falling. I wonder if the problem of falling in Alzheimer's patients is frequently related to low
acetylcholine levels combined with occasional dietary excess of magnesium. It might not require much to do this: a cup
of cooked spinach contains over 150 mg of magnesium. Perhaps magnesium in my diet explains my long history of falls.
A form of magnesium that could easily enter the brain could be dangerous for Alzheimer patients.

I should not have taken the full 144 mg dose of Magnesium L-Threonate. With my new concerns about my acetylcholine
levels, I think it would be wise for me not to take any more Magnesium L-Threonate.

I have met with my doctor. The doctor told me not to take any more magnesium. My doctor believes the incident was related to my
dementia. However, I have had falling episodes for at least 25 years and they occurred before I had clinical dementia. In my recent
genome scan, it was found that I am at increased risk for multiple sclerosis, essential tremor, and narcolepsy, though I have never been
formally diagnosed with any of these conditions and my actual risk for them is quite small.

Given my experience with Magnesium L-Threonate, I am surprised that it is now readily available. For people of average health, this product
might be relatively safe. However, some sub-groups (e.g. Alzheimer patients) might be at increased risk. I think it would be very sensible for my concerns about low acetylcholine levels and hypermagnesemia in Alzheimer's patients be considered in order to determine if other
dementia patients might be at risk from Magnesium L-Threonate. I wrote to the manufacturer of the magnesium about my incident.
I informed them about my history of dementia, yet they suggested to me that my inicident might be more related to my history of seizures.

Thank you everyone for your comments! I have found them very helpful.

(I have received assistance composing these posts.)

[niner]

I have met with my doctor. The doctor told me not to take any more magnesium. My doctor believes the incident was related to my dementia. However, I have had falling episodes for at least 25 years and they occurred before I had clinical dementia.

Well, I have to say, the incident has all the hallmarks of a siezure. Considering the history that preceded the dementia, I would follow that lead and not just punt the diagnosis to dementia. I do however agree with the doctor's advice of not taking magnesium, at least not in the threonate form. I doubt that there is a generalized hypermagnesemia involved, particularly not from dietary sources, but with the threonate, a cerebral hypermagnesemia is a possibility; at any rate it was high enough to cause a problem for you. You could consider getting a workup for for epilepsy/seizures, and possibly getting a magnesium level to see if there's anything abnormal there. Even considering that you had assistance composing these posts, you seem to be doing pretty well cognitively. Are you using other AD meds?

[DbCooper]

A 3-ounce serving of beef liver contains approximately 360 mg of choline. Ever had an issue after eating liver?

[choqueiro]

Hi,

Those who have positive experiences with this supplement could tell me how much and at what time do they take the MgT??

And also how many time before seeing any positive effects?? In another forums it is said that it is needed to take daily MgT during a month to see benefits.

Thanks

[brokenportal]

http://www.longecity...ation-research/

[sapentia]

I should clarify my personal circumstances. I have severe Alzheimer's dementia, and I took Magnesium L-Threonate
in order to boost my cognitive abilities.

It might have been dangerous for me to take this supplement because I have very low levels of acetylcholine in my brain
(due to the Alzheimer's). I have read that hypermagnesemia leads to impairment of neuromuscular transmission from
inhibition of acetylcholine. If the Magnesium L-Threonate decreased my acetylcholine levels even slightly I would be in
serious danger.

I am concerned that Magnesium L-Threonate is now being marketed to Alzheimer patients. Alzheimer patients have
frequent problems with falling. I wonder if the problem of falling in Alzheimer's patients is frequently related to low
acetylcholine levels combined with occasional dietary excess of magnesium. It might not require much to do this: a cup
of cooked spinach contains over 150 mg of magnesium. Perhaps magnesium in my diet explains my long history of falls.
A form of magnesium that could easily enter the brain could be dangerous for Alzheimer patients.

I should not have taken the full 144 mg dose of Magnesium L-Threonate. With my new concerns about my acetylcholine
levels, I think it would be wise for me not to take any more Magnesium L-Threonate.

I have met with my doctor. The doctor told me not to take any more magnesium. My doctor believes the incident was related to my
dementia. However, I have had falling episodes for at least 25 years and they occurred before I had clinical dementia. In my recent
genome scan, it was found that I am at increased risk for multiple sclerosis, essential tremor, and narcolepsy, though I have never been
formally diagnosed with any of these conditions and my actual risk for them is quite small.

Given my experience with Magnesium L-Threonate, I am surprised that it is now readily available. For people of average health, this product
might be relatively safe. However, some sub-groups (e.g. Alzheimer patients) might be at increased risk. I think it would be very sensible for my concerns about low acetylcholine levels and hypermagnesemia in Alzheimer's patients be considered in order to determine if other
dementia patients might be at risk from Magnesium L-Threonate. I wrote to the manufacturer of the magnesium about my incident.
I informed them about my history of dementia, yet they suggested to me that my inicident might be more related to my history of seizures.

Thank you everyone for your comments! I have found them very helpful.

(I have received assistance composing these posts.)

Something which has some reported success (anecdotally) in certain people with Alzheimer's is medium chain triglycerides (MCT's). One of the best sources of this is coconut oil which is roughly 50% MCT's. The rational behind its benefit is that the brain is able to use MCT's directly as an energy source in place of glucose. If I'm not mistaken improper glucose uptake/utilization is potentially one of the components of Alzheimer's degenerative pathway.

[mag1]

There appears to be a family history of these falling incidents. I intend to clarify my family's history. My genome scan did not indicate any increased risk for seizure, though
there might be a complex genetic architecture for seizures that has alluded the current generation of GWASs.

My doctor has ordered blood work, thus I might obtain some useful information about my recent seizure from it.

My family is tempted to use my EEG machine to explore my seizure behaviour. If I took a small amount of Magnesium L-Threonate, it would be very interesting to watch the response of my brainwaves. My doctor was stunned when I mentioned that I had a research grade EEG machine at home. I explained to the doctor that it is no big deal to have such technology:
this is the 21st century after all. I do not expect anyone on this forum to be impressed by my EEG machine, though such technology could obviously transform human experience. My family has tried the machine for the last month or two, and they are amazed that they have already been able to modify their brain wave patterns.

(I have received a tremendous amount of help with these posts.)

I am not sure about the beef liver comment. I sometimes take choline in pill form, though I am not aware how this might cause a seizure.

Thank you for the suggestion about the MCTs. I have been considering trying coconut oil again. However, I am concerned about the high amount of saturated fat in
coconut oil. Is there any MCT that is not high in saturated fat?

[mpe]

I tried LEF's Mag Threonate. Just one pill (instead of three) at bedtime. I find it too sedating for me. After 91/2 hrs of sleep I'm still very sleepy this morning. Possibly a little constipating (just delayed not missed) which is pretty unusual for both me and magnesium!
Might use on occasional basis when I can really sleep in - or perhaps I will adapt. I like my energy, though....

91/2 hrs sleep, I'd kill for 6 in a row.
You have convinced me I'm going to buy some today

[sapentia]

Thank you for the suggestion about the MCTs. I have been considering trying coconut oil again. However, I am concerned about the high amount of saturated fat in
coconut oil. Is there any MCT that is not high in saturated fat?

The saturated fat in coconut oil is not detrimental but in fact very beneficial phsyiologically. Any negative literature on coconut oil discusses results based on hydrogenated coconut oil which is very unhealthy being a trans-fat, but that of course is not the type of oil we are talking about here. If I were you I would try one tablespoon 2 -3 times per day for a week and closely monitor any perceived benefits. In case you're worried about weight gain, professional bodybuilders frequently use high amounts of coconut oil in their diets when they are trying to trim down as it is prone to be utilized by the body and not be converted into fat stores.

[MrSpud]

MCT's are also available as fractionated coconut oil where the saturated fat has been removed. Even though the saturated fat in coconut might be good for some people others get diarrhea if they take more than a small amount. If someone wants to experiment with larger doses of MCT's they might want to try the fractionated coconut oil version or a combination of regular coconut oil and fractionated coconut oil. The fractionated coconut oil is a clear liquid oil at room temperature unlike the coconut oil which is a white semisolid at room temp. You can find the fractionated coconut oil in softgels like these http://www.connoils....g-capsules.html . I don't know anything about that particular brand though, it is merely the first hit I got in google when I searched for fractionated MCT oil softgels.

[sdxl]

MCT's are also available as fractionated coconut oil where the saturated fat has been removed.

MCT oil is practically all saturated fat, so this can't be right.

[Hebbeh]

MCT's are also available as fractionated coconut oil where the saturated fat has been removed.

MCT oil is practically all saturated fat, so this can't be right.

Not true.

MCT or medium chain triglycerides, as the name suggests are 6 to 12 carbons:
http://en.wikipedia....n_triglycerides

Saturated fatty acids are 12 to 24 carbons:
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Fatty_acid

And as such, MCT's and Saturated fatty acids are totally different and treated differently by the body. MCT's have no more in common with Saturated fats as fish oil has in common with saturated fats. You might want to research the various and different fatty acids and the different biological effects of the different types.

edit: wanted to add that you can purchase pure MCT oil as a supplement which is popular with some in the fitness world. I like it before aerobic training and find it useful mixed in coffee before 5k races.

Edited by Hebbeh, 11 February 2012 - 06:15 PM.

[sdxl]

MCT or medium chain triglycerides, as the name suggests are 6 to 12 carbons:
http://en.wikipedia....n_triglycerides

I'm not questioning the number of C atoms in MCTs.

Saturated fatty acids are 12 to 24 carbons:
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Fatty_acid

And as such, MCT's and Saturated fatty acids are totally different and treated differently by the body. MCT's have no more in common with Saturated fats as fish oil has in common with saturated fats. You might want to research the various and different fatty acids and the different biological effects of the different types.

That page says "usually have between 12 and 24 carbon atoms..." and lists the fatty acids found in MCT oil as saturated fatty acids. How MCTs are treated in the body is irrelevant to the discussion if they are saturated triglycerides or not.

[Hebbeh]

MCT or medium chain triglycerides, as the name suggests are 6 to 12 carbons:
http://en.wikipedia....n_triglycerides

I'm not questioning the number of C atoms in MCTs.

Saturated fatty acids are 12 to 24 carbons:
http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Fatty_acid

And as such, MCT's and Saturated fatty acids are totally different and treated differently by the body. MCT's have no more in common with Saturated fats as fish oil has in common with saturated fats. You might want to research the various and different fatty acids and the different biological effects of the different types.

That page says "usually have between 12 and 24 carbon atoms..." and lists the fatty acids found in MCT oil as saturated fatty acids. How MCTs are treated in the body is irrelevant to the discussion if they are saturated triglycerides or not.

Technically you are right and I was mistaken...MCT's are considered saturated due to the lack of double bonds. Learn something new every day.. . My confusion was due to huge difference in how the body metabolizes MCT's compared to the more common longer chain saturated fatty acids. Thanks for pointing that out.

[brokenportal]

You can help Longecity pick the ingredients for the new Longecity crowdsourced multi-vitamin here: http://www.longecity...4-vimmortal-20/
Participate in any of the polls on nutrients, forms and amounts and you'll be able to say that you were part of the creation of a multi-vitamin.

[mag1]

I am now very interested in MCTs for the treatment of Alzheimer's dementia.

Over the last few years, I have on occasion taken 2-3 grams of coconut oil per day, without any noticeable
benefit. This weekend I read a pharmacogenetic study of MCTs for the treatment of Alzheimer's dementia
and I was startled by the results.

The research found that the average APOE epsilon 4 negative Alzheimer patient benefits from MCTs.
I am an APOE epsilon 4 negative Alzheimer patient. Further, APOE negative Alzheimer patients with a certain
mutation in the IL1B gene received substantial benefit from MCTs. I do not have the correct IL1B genotype.
Further, APOE epsilon 4 negative Alzheimer patients with a certain genotype in the IDE gene received
very substantial benefit from MCTs. I do not know my IDE genotype for this SNP (though I am trying my best to
learn how I could impute it).

Over 10% of APOE epsilon 4 negatives in the study had a 10-point or greater improvement in ADAS cog from baseline.
For these patients, MCTs would seem like a cure! I am now very interested in trying MCT treatment for my dementia. I have
ordered MCT oil and coconut oil and I am anxious to try MCTs again.

However, I still have concerns about the saturated fat in the coconut oil. The brand of coconut oil that I bought is
non-hydrogenated. It has 0g of trans fat. Yet, 1 serving of the coconut oil gives me over 10g of saturated fat which
is 65% of my recommended daily intake. If I took 4 or 5 tablespoons of coconut oil, as is suggested, I would be
consuming up to 70g of saturated fat per day! This would be 325% of my recommended daily intake. I am not sure whether
MCTs without saturated fat would be effective for dementia. Coconut oil is 65% saturated fat. If the saturated fat were
removed, there might not be any MCTs left.

I am very interested in determining what I might be able to do to maximize the benefit of the MCT oils. My genotype for the IL1B
SNP is not the one associated with improved ADAS cog scores. The correct genotype for the IL1B SNP decreases
IL1b levels. If I could find a treatment that could mimic this genotype, I could improve my ADAS cog score by over
5-points (versus baseline), and over 8-points versus placebo! IL1B is related to inflammation. Perhaps an anti-inflammatory
could help me receive more benefit from MCTs. The IDE gene polymorphism increases Ide activity. The APOE, IDE
and IL1B polymorphisms all help to bring insulin down which leads to increased ketone body metabolism. Any
suggestions that could help me improve my ADAS cog score using the above pathways would be greatly appreciated.

[Hebbeh]

As sdxl pointed out in the last post, MCT's by definition are saturated fats...a unique type of saturated fat...but just the same, MCT's = type of saturated fat and as such, you can't have any MCT's and not have them be saturated.

[niner]

However, I still have concerns about the saturated fat in the coconut oil. The brand of coconut oil that I bought is
non-hydrogenated. It has 0g of trans fat. Yet, 1 serving of the coconut oil gives me over 10g of saturated fat which
is 65% of my recommended daily intake. If I took 4 or 5 tablespoons of coconut oil, as is suggested, I would be
consuming up to 70g of saturated fat per day! This would be 325% of my recommended daily intake. I am not sure whether MCTs without saturated fat would be effective for dementia. Coconut oil is 65% saturated fat. If the saturated fat were removed, there might not be any MCTs left.

I am very interested in determining what I might be able to do to maximize the benefit of the MCT oils. My genotype for the IL1B SNP is not the one associated with improved ADAS cog scores. The correct genotype for the IL1B SNP decreases
IL1b levels. If I could find a treatment that could mimic this genotype, I could improve my ADAS cog score by over 5-points (versus baseline), and over 8-points versus placebo! IL1B is related to inflammation. Perhaps an anti-inflammatory could help me receive more benefit from MCTs. The IDE gene polymorphism increases Ide activity. The APOE, IDE and IL1B polymorphisms all help to bring insulin down which leads to increased ketone body metabolism. Any
suggestions that could help me improve my ADAS cog score using the above pathways would be greatly appreciated.

You can't separate the saturated fat from the MCTs, as they are one in the same. At least the MCTs are saturated. Not all saturated fats are MCTs. The ketone body metabolism is an interesting angle, and it's consistent with the MCTs which are a common component of ketogenic diets. If you reduced your carbohydrate intake to extremely low values, your metabolism would switch over to ketosis. This is a pretty extreme diet; it's talked about a lot in some older threads here. When you are in ketosis, you can eat a lot of fat without ill effect.

[summertimex]

i found this article

http://examine.com/s...ts/L-Threonate/

it is smoother than other magnesium supplements and has a more potent calming effect.

[psychopath]

How should MgT taste ? I buy some from cerebralhealth and it taste and dissolve on tongue like dextrose (grape sugar). I am sceptical if it is really MgT.

edit: It is definitely not sugar. I found some diagnostic stripe home (you pee on it and it change colors for ph/glucose/ketones/etc) and after i mix some MgT with water and put it on stripe it does not change color.

Edited by psychopath, 27 August 2012 - 05:48 PM.

[summertimex]

hey the threonate makes it taste sweeter plus more acidic.

the effect should at first be a calming effect with a metallic feel and perhaps a slight change of vision.