291 replies to this topic

[mentatpsi]

I've tried Lion's Mane a few times, but it is just too sedating. Even taking it before going to sleep makes me drowsy the next day (500 mg of the Host Defense brand).

In the hope that my body will adapt and that I'll no longer feel sedated by it, I've decided to try taking Lion's Mane every night and to just do whatever it takes to power through the day (caffeine, ALCAR, etc.).

Has anyone else experienced and overcome this kind of sedation from Lion's Mane?

the host defense... that's the new chapter brand right? doesn't that also have reishi in it? Reishi supposedly has sedative effects. Lion's mane isn't technically sedating to that extent, so I might look into the other items in the formulation.

[rwac]

I've tried Lion's Mane a few times, but it is just too sedating. Even taking it before going to sleep makes me drowsy the next day (500 mg of the Host Defense brand).

Interesting. I just tried it again (at night because it makes me tired), and it seems to make me a bit depressed the next morning.
I think it might just disagree with me.


PS: I have the swanson stuff, perhaps not the best quality.

Edited by rwac, 25 August 2010 - 03:48 AM.

[recitative]

the host defense... that's the new chapter brand right? doesn't that also have reishi in it? Reishi supposedly has sedative effects. Lion's mane isn't technically sedating to that extent, so I might look into the other items in the formulation.
[/quote]

I don't think the brand is New Chapter. The bottle says, "Fungi Perfecti: Host Defense" and I don't think it has Reishi in it. The only other ingredient besides Lion's Mane is "freeze-dried myceliated brown rice."

I have now taken it two nights in a row and I don't feel as tired today as I felt yesterday, but getting out of bed this morning was still a profound challenge.

[debu]

the host defense... that's the new chapter brand right? doesn't that also have reishi in it? Reishi supposedly has sedative effects. Lion's mane isn't technically sedating to that extent, so I might look into the other items in the formulation.


I don't think the brand is New Chapter. The bottle says, "Fungi Perfecti: Host Defense" and I don't think it has Reishi in it. The only other ingredient besides Lion's Mane is "freeze-dried myceliated brown rice."

I have now taken it two nights in a row and I don't feel as tired today as I felt yesterday, but getting out of bed this morning was still a profound challenge.

Same brand/product, same effect here. I've been taking it for the past month and initially it wasn't so sedating that I couldn't power through the day, but the past few days have been rough to wake up. That could be because I've switched to taking it a little later at night though.

[LizerLife]

if some one were considering using lions mane what brand would you recommend and what dosage. I'm considering using herbal advantage. Is that ok?

[chrono]

if some one were considering using lions mane what brand would you recommend and what dosage. I'm considering using herbal advantage. Is that ok?

It seems ok. They mention that it's organic and untreated. The only qualms I have are based on a general feeling that a higher price reflects a certain attention to detail and knowledge about how to grow mushrooms the best way (in the necessary sterile environment, etc). I suspect that this material isn't grown by them, but ordered in bulk from another grower (there are amazing prices if you get it in wholesale from China). If you get it, let us know what you think.

If you have the money, MRL, Myco Essentials, and the Fungi Perfecti liquid product are grown by more specialized companies, and are probably more certain to be the best quality. But unless quality is mission-critical (as in treatment of dementia), a cheaper alternative might make sense.

A gram a day is probably a good starting dosage.

[iang]

I have been reading these posts for some time, and now finally decided to register and post myself.

I have a specific question, anyone please feel free to answer, but I am specifically interested in what Mentatpsi would have to say since we seem to have the same exact opinion on this matter. I had been using the discontinued New Chapter product for a few years and loved it. It completely woke up my mind, I concentrated well, I was relaxed and in control, I was motivated and consistently came up with creative solutions to problems both in my personal life and at work. Totally different reaction to the new New Chapter Lifeshield Mind Force product - none of the postives mentioned above and a bit of a sedated feeling. The question is what products (nootropics, herbs, supplements) can I use to replace the old product? Let's assume that money is not an issue in finding a replacement (it is an issue, but I would like to first find the replacement and then work my way around the money).

I have tried three replacement Lion's Mane products - Fungi Perfecti, Mushroom Science, Mushroom Wisdom. Mushroom Science was ok for a couple of hours but makes me feel nauseous after a couple of hours. Mushroom Wisdom felt like mostly Vitamin C. Fungi Perfecti has been the best so far, though that doesn't say much. I get a small boost (a fraction of the boost I got from New Chapter Mental Clarity) but it's not nearly potent enough. I can't figure out how New Chapter was able to make such a potent product with just 1000 mg (2 doses of 500mg) of mushrooms. With Fungi Perfecti I take 2000 mg a day and don't get nearly the same results. Probably New Chapter extracts differently...

[chrono]

Here's a comparison of the constituents of the two products (2 capsules):

Mental Clarity (old)	Mindforce (new)
680mg Lion's Mane	500 mg Lion's Mane
80mg Cordyceps	100 mg Cordyceps
80mg Reishi	200mg Reishi (combined)
80mg Oregon Polypore 80mg Pearl Oyster	100mg Poria Cocos 100mg Chaga (combined)

Seems like the biggest difference is the four mushrooms in the bottom row. Maybe someone else can comment on whether any of these might potentially make a big difference with regard to the mental effects.



The Fungi Perfecti product contains both the mycelium and fruiting body, just like the New Chapter product (at least the new one; I'm not sure if Mental Clarity contained both of these constituents). You could try bulk unextracted mycelium + fruiting body, if you thought it might make a big difference, but I doubt it. Otherwise, you might want to try to replicate the mushroom list from the old formulation.

Welcome to the board!

Edited by chrono, 09 September 2010 - 05:40 PM.

[mrak1979]

Anyone know if LM is best taken on empty stomach or after meals?

[babcock]

Anyone know if LM is best taken on empty stomach or after meals?

The study that generated all the interest in LM to being with administered 5g/day to Alzheimer's patients in their soup. So it could be assumed they were taking it with meals and experienced pronounced results.

[RubyAnn]

Just a quick question..

Is this the Fungi Perfect product being mentioned?

Lions mane

Or is it something different?

Also, are there benefits for a 19 year old girl to take this (using around 1mg) or might it do more harm than good?

I was going to combine with Piracetam and CDP choline.

Thanks

[chrono]

I'd agree that taking it with a moderately heavy meal (i.e. with some fat) is probably the best bet, as at least some of these molecules aren't soluble in water. Since we're looking for effect over the course of at least days, it's not really important to reach a certain plasma concentration quickly.

Is this the Fungi Perfect product being mentioned?

Lions mane

That one was mentioned a ways back, but it's the freeze-dried mycelium one, and is probably quite good. The one that's had more discussion (and one of the ones I recommend) is the liquid extract that contains both fruit body and mycelium. I couldn't find it on their website just now (they might be transitioning between product lines), but it still seems to be in stock here.

[RubyAnn]

^^ Thanks chrono, I'll look into the liquid extract.

Edited by RubyAnn, 16 September 2010 - 12:45 AM.

[mentatpsi]

I'm sorry for the delayed response, haven't been keeping a vigilant eye on this page.

The two primary compounds that increase sedative response would be the chaga and reishi. My issue with finding a product equivalent of the prior generation is that the quality of New Chapter is difficult to beat, at least based on the marketing information. The way I see it, these mushrooms might act as eco filitration systems (Mycofiltration)... in other words they might absorb the contaminants that surround their breeding environment, making organic production a critical attribute of the shopping process, at least for me.

Btw, Chrono do you know any detailed mechanism of actions for Lion's Mane other than the increase of NGF? Kind of curious if there's any additional information I missed.

[Logan]

I'm sorry for the delayed response, haven't been keeping a vigilant eye on this page.

The two primary compounds that increase sedative response would be the chaga and reishi. My issue with finding a product equivalent of the prior generation is that the quality of New Chapter is difficult to beat, at least based on the marketing information. The way I see it, these mushrooms might act as eco filitration systems (Mycofiltration)... in other words they might absorb the contaminants that surround their breeding environment, making organic production a critical attribute of the shopping process, at least for me.

How about Paul Stamets' line of mushrooms? He used to be the mastermind behind New Chapter's formulations until he found out something they were doing that he disagreed with and left them to start his own company.

[mentatpsi]

I'm sorry for the delayed response, haven't been keeping a vigilant eye on this page.

The two primary compounds that increase sedative response would be the chaga and reishi. My issue with finding a product equivalent of the prior generation is that the quality of New Chapter is difficult to beat, at least based on the marketing information. The way I see it, these mushrooms might act as eco filitration systems (Mycofiltration)... in other words they might absorb the contaminants that surround their breeding environment, making organic production a critical attribute of the shopping process, at least for me.

How about Paul Stamets' line of mushrooms? He used to be the mastermind behind New Chapter's formulations until he found out something they were doing that he disagreed with and left them to start his own company.

That sounds rather interesting... and odd lol. Link per chance?

[Logan]

I'm sorry for the delayed response, haven't been keeping a vigilant eye on this page.

The two primary compounds that increase sedative response would be the chaga and reishi. My issue with finding a product equivalent of the prior generation is that the quality of New Chapter is difficult to beat, at least based on the marketing information. The way I see it, these mushrooms might act as eco filitration systems (Mycofiltration)... in other words they might absorb the contaminants that surround their breeding environment, making organic production a critical attribute of the shopping process, at least for me.

How about Paul Stamets' line of mushrooms? He used to be the mastermind behind New Chapter's formulations until he found out something they were doing that he disagreed with and left them to start his own company.

That sounds rather interesting... and odd lol. Link per chance?

Ha ha, I'm obviously half-way retarded. I should have know Fungi Perfect was Paul Stamets' company that manufactures the Host Defense line .

[Micelo]

I have had constant dull headaches, reduced cognition, regular twitching neck muscles, and light headedness when I stand up ever since a hypertensive crisis I experienced 16 moth ago. I have been to multiple neurologist and have been diagnosed with new daily persistent headache > migraine. I have had Multiple MRI's and MRA's of both my head and neck with all negative results up until my most recent MRI of the brain with contrast. My radiology report reads, "ill-defined foci of signal hyperintensity within the frontal subcortical white matter best seen on FLAIR imaging, including a couple on the left and one on the right."
I have done extensive research on white matter lesions and their correlation to inflammation/headaches/migraines. After discovering this blog of a guy named Mark who has had a rather successfully battled brain lesions, I was turned onto the idea of lion's mane.

http://claritaslux.c...bilitate-brain/

http://claritaslux.c...nce-lions-mane/

Then I found this thread. Thanks to Chrono and Babcock this has been a very thorough and informative thread of 'gold.' Thank you!

I ordered the Lion's Mane Mushroom Extract (Hericium erinaceus) and MyCommunbity from Fungi Perfecti and received my order in the mail 3 days ago.

After 3 days of use with 1-2g of MyCommunity and 2-3g of lion's mane I have had quite a significant initial reaction. Being quite a sensitive individual I wouldn't term my results placebo effect.

I have noticed a reduction in mind fog which has resulted in more fluid recall, thoughts, and speech. It seems the activity in my brain has increased and more specifically in areas of my pain. This increase in activity seems to have made me more tired the last few nights resulting in quality REM which has yielded vivid and meaningful dreams.

I will be combining this treatment with meditation induced by chi machine, electric stimulation, and light sound therapy. Along with regular hyperbaric chamber treatment (2-3 times a week), healthy diet, regular exercise and yoga, and brain rehabilitation exercises.

I will update my progress in a few weeks. Thank God for mushrooms!

[karoloydi]

I ve been taking Fungi Perfecti Lion's Mane for about 2 weeks now. 1000mg a day. Since a few days ago I started itching like crazy. Its like I have bugs walking all over my body. I cant sleep at night.
I guess that means that the Lion's Mane is working. I ll try and tolerate it for a while more.
So far havent noticed any other effects from the mushroom, good or bad.

Reasons why I am taking the mushroom with order of priority:
1. Fix Ulnar nerve / beck pain that I ve been having for 2 years now
2. Fix Headaches
3. Improvement with my ADHD and verbal skills and general cognitive enhancement.

I ll keep you posted.

Edited by karoloydi, 07 October 2010 - 11:08 PM.

[iang]

Thanks Mentatpsi for your input.

An update to the situation regarding New Chapter Mental Clarity replacement: Since I was unable to find an american company with products that I was happy with, I decided to try out a Chinese supplier on Alibaba. This of course was risky because you never know whom you are dealing with (could be just some one that takes your money and never sends the product). But my curiosity got the better of me and I went for it. Here's the basic criteria that I was looking for:

-Hericium Erinaceus (Lion's Mane extract)
-must be mycelium (not fruiting body)
-must have a polysaccharide content of at least 40% and beta glucan content of at least 20%
-extraction method must be the combination of water extraction and alcohol precipitation
-must be able to purchase small quanity (around 100 grams so as not to end up with 5 kg of a product that does not work)

After some searching I was able to find a supplier that fit all the criteria listed above: Hericium Erinaceus mycelium extract 50% polysaccharide content 30% beta glucans with the desired extraction method and no minimum quantity. I received the order about 10 days ago. My impression is that this product is above and beyond anything I have been able to purchase from american companies. Gave me the ability to cocentrate well for long periods of time. Keeps you extremely alert with a pleasant buzz. Very pure and very potent, with no side effects (the only side effect I had was I took at before bedtime one night and although I was able to fall asleep I kept waking up sporadically every half an hour or so). Taking about 1 gram daily (any more than that is just too much and creates an ucnomfortable feeling). Still not as good as the New Chapter Mental Clarity (Mental Clarity really helped with critical thought, this products doesn't make you feel smarter like Mental Clarity did), but all in all I think I found my replacement. I am also mixing in Cordyceps and Reishi for optimal effect (about 500 mg of each for every 2 grams of Lion's Mane).

[mentatpsi]

Thanks Mentatpsi for your input.

An update to the situation regarding New Chapter Mental Clarity replacement: Since I was unable to find an american company with products that I was happy with, I decided to try out a Chinese supplier on Alibaba. This of course was risky because you never know whom you are dealing with (could be just some one that takes your money and never sends the product). But my curiosity got the better of me and I went for it. Here's the basic criteria that I was looking for:

-Hericium Erinaceus (Lion's Mane extract)
-must be mycelium (not fruiting body)
-must have a polysaccharide content of at least 40% and beta glucan content of at least 20%
-extraction method must be the combination of water extraction and alcohol precipitation
-must be able to purchase small quanity (around 100 grams so as not to end up with 5 kg of a product that does not work)

After some searching I was able to find a supplier that fit all the criteria listed above: Hericium Erinaceus mycelium extract 50% polysaccharide content 30% beta glucans with the desired extraction method and no minimum quantity. I received the order about 10 days ago. My impression is that this product is above and beyond anything I have been able to purchase from american companies. Gave me the ability to cocentrate well for long periods of time. Keeps you extremely alert with a pleasant buzz. Very pure and very potent, with no side effects (the only side effect I had was I took at before bedtime one night and although I was able to fall asleep I kept waking up sporadically every half an hour or so). Taking about 1 gram daily (any more than that is just too much and creates an ucnomfortable feeling). Still not as good as the New Chapter Mental Clarity (Mental Clarity really helped with critical thought, this products doesn't make you feel smarter like Mental Clarity did), but all in all I think I found my replacement. I am also mixing in Cordyceps and Reishi for optimal effect (about 500 mg of each for every 2 grams of Lion's Mane).

I am not sure if the publicizing of a link or company name would be outside protocol for ImmInst, but I'm rather intrigued by which company you found given the rarity of no minimum on Alibaba. Interesting E-commerce website, very handy.

If you have the resources, maybe try to get it tested in an independent lab for contaminants and purity. The criteria for gold trader wasn't too high, just the reliability of providing the product. So I'm not sure the reliability of the safety.

Thanks for posting btw, very interesting stuff.

"Nerve Growth Factor (NGF) is an essential protein for supporting growth and maintenance of peripheral sympathetic neurons. A novel diterpenoid erinacine, isolated from the cultured mycelia of Hericium erinacium, is known to have a potent stimulating effect on NGF synthesis. The effects of erinacine and related compounds in the brain in vivo are not known. In this study, we examined the effects of erinacine A on the production of NGF and catecholamines which stimulate NGF synthesis in the brain of rats. Rats were treated with erinacine A by intubation for the first 3 weeks from birth to weaning and intragastrically from weeks 4 to 5. Rats treated with this compound had increased levels of both noradrenaline and homovanillic acid in the locus coeruleus (LC) at 4 weeks of age and increased levels of NGF in both LC and hippocampus at 5 weeks of age. The effects of erinacine A were confirmed in the central nervous system in rats. "^[3]

^[3] Erinacine A increases catecholamine and nerve growth factor content in the central nervous system of rats

[iang]

Mentat - Yes, I will be more than happy to post the website of the company, however I need a couple of weeks to test this further before endorsing it to the rest of the forum. Despite initial glowing reviews I am still not 100% sold on it as it seems the potency has worn off with further use. I still believe that it is the best option of any Lion's Mane supplement that I have tried so far. I will be sure to post the information within the next couple of weeks.

[iang]

I have tested this product further and I am now comfortable to share with the forum. The website is http://www.srnutrachem.com. Still not sold on it 100% but will continue to use it.

[kikai93]

I've been watching this with some interest, but I have to admit in the back of my mind I've been chuckling a bit. You guys realize you can get the whole damn mushroom (mycellium, fruiting body and all) at many asian grocery stores in either fresh or dried form for about 1/10th what you're spending on the supplements, right? Lion's mane is a traditional asian food (particularly Chinese and Vietnamese). It also features in Chinese medicine. Cooked it tastes a little like a seafood medley and is extremely tasty. Go to your local asian grocer and ask if they have hou tou gu.

As a side benefit to eating the mushroom itself, you get a bunch of antioxidants to boot. Yum.

[chrono]

You guys realize you can get the whole damn mushroom (mycellium, fruiting body and all) at many asian grocery stores in either fresh or dried form for about 1/10th what you're spending on the supplements, right?

Thanks for the heads up, but you're probably mistaken about the inclusion of mycelium. It's basically a network of mold inextricably bound to the culture medium—probably grain of some kind. All mycelium products mentioned here are mostly culture medium. Not exactly a culinary item.

I have tested this product further and I am now comfortable to share with the forum. The website is http://www.srnutrachem.com. Still not sold on it 100% but will continue to use it.

Is it just me, or did they photoshop their sign onto the side of the building?

I'm a little confused about your report of the purity, potency, and effects of this LM product, as it seems like you're mixing in two other mushrooms that will really confound the results.

Edited by chrono, 30 October 2010 - 02:46 PM.

[golden1]

Just wanted to update that I'm still taking 1-3 grams every couple of days and it still has the most profound effect on my vision. It's worth it for me simply because of how beautiful and crisp the world becomes. Trees, especially now during fall, are the best.

I'd guess it has something to do with "Stimulated myelination"(stated on wikipedia, ..in vitro study) possibly making the path from my eyes to the brain have less noise and such. Or maybe it's the NGF factor strengthening my visual cortex or the nerves that carry the signals there... or both. Either way, it is quite the difference.

[jlspartz]

I've tried Lion's Mane a few times, but it is just too sedating. Even taking it before going to sleep makes me drowsy the next day (500 mg of the Host Defense brand).

Interesting. I just tried it again (at night because it makes me tired), and it seems to make me a bit depressed the next morning.
I think it might just disagree with me.


PS: I have the swanson stuff, perhaps not the best quality.

I also have the Swanson brand of Lion's Mane and makes me more tired than I normally am, with a slight headache for the first hour. It says it's all fruiting bodies. Maybe it's just how some people react to it. Being a couple months ahead of me in taking it, did you continue? Any incline in the effects? I've taken it for a week so far - starting to think of trying it at night instead.

[golden1]

Also, I take it before bed. It makes me sleepy now too if I take it at any other time.

[kikai93]

You guys realize you can get the whole damn mushroom (mycellium, fruiting body and all) at many asian grocery stores in either fresh or dried form for about 1/10th what you're spending on the supplements, right?

Thanks for the heads up, but you're probably mistaken about the inclusion of mycelium. It's basically a network of mold inextricably bound to the culture medium—probably grain of some kind. All mycelium products mentioned here are mostly culture medium. Not exactly a culinary item.

I find that confusing if only because Lion's mane appears naturally on hardwoods and is cultivated commercially on hardwood sawdust. I'm not sure I'd want a capsule that is mostly powdered american beechwood.

[kikai93]

Just wanted to update that I'm still taking 1-3 grams every couple of days and it still has the most profound effect on my vision. It's worth it for me simply because of how beautiful and crisp the world becomes. Trees, especially now during fall, are the best.

I'd guess it has something to do with "Stimulated myelination"(stated on wikipedia, ..in vitro study) possibly making the path from my eyes to the brain have less noise and such. Or maybe it's the NGF factor strengthening my visual cortex or the nerves that carry the signals there... or both. Either way, it is quite the difference.

I get the same effect from Aniracetam and am very interested to know if it's a similar or different mechanism of action. I've started eating the actual mushrooms daily (I get them at the asian grocer) as an experimental adjunct to my daily stack. Will report back with results.