291 replies to this topic

[treetop]

Nice... but you can't buy mycelium at the Chinese grocer. My mycelium is doing well so far on organic brown rice and I even have some small fruit bodies on top. By the way, 50g fresh is probably equivalent to about 5g dry, which is normally how it comes in supplement form. Even at that, you are getting a good deal ~150g dry/$10 - but keep in mind the mycelium is supposedly more potent than the fruit bodies.

[Delta Gamma]

I hate to be the guy who posts that random fantastical claim:

I have a friend who had nerve damage to his feet after a car accident who claims to have regained some feeling in the tops of his feet after eating approx. 30g hou tou gu a day for about a month.

I'm not arguing that it could just be part of his natural recovery over time, but the timing makes me wonder.
I personally am waiting for my current supp to run out before I try anything new like lions mane.

[aLurker]

Lion's mane, ALCAR and ashwagandha might be a decent combination, at least in theory. Has anyone tried them together? I'm going to try it soon but I'm holding off on the lion's mane until my stack is a bit more finalized as I'm experimenting quite liberally right now.

[jlspartz]

Lion's mane, ALCAR and ashwagandha might be a decent combination, at least in theory. Has anyone tried them together? I'm going to try it soon but I'm holding off on the lion's mane until my stack is a bit more finalized as I'm experimenting quite liberally right now.

I can't take them together since I must take Lion's Mane as night, due to drowsiness and ALCAR during the day otherwise I'll stay up. Ashwagandha is good anytime for me. If I take all during the day, the Lion's Mane will still overrule everything else and make me drowsy with brain fog. It does make me sleep deeper though.

[aLurker]

Lion's mane, ALCAR and ashwagandha might be a decent combination, at least in theory. Has anyone tried them together? I'm going to try it soon but I'm holding off on the lion's mane until my stack is a bit more finalized as I'm experimenting quite liberally right now.

I can't take them together since I must take Lion's Mane as night, due to drowsiness and ALCAR during the day otherwise I'll stay up. Ashwagandha is good anytime for me. If I take all during the day, the Lion's Mane will still overrule everything else and make me drowsy with brain fog. It does make me sleep deeper though.

Oh, I was a little unclear I guess. I meant together as in the same regimen, not taken exactly at the same time during the day. I've tried taking ashwagandha during the day since it is an AChEI but it seems somewhat sedative so I have to take it in the evening with my bacopa - produces very vivid dreams btw. I take ALCAR during the day and when I introduce lion's mane I'll probably take it as part of my sleep stack with ash and bacopa.

What are your impressions and thoughts on ash, ALCAR and lion's mane in the same regimen?

[jlspartz]

Lion's mane, ALCAR and ashwagandha might be a decent combination, at least in theory. Has anyone tried them together? I'm going to try it soon but I'm holding off on the lion's mane until my stack is a bit more finalized as I'm experimenting quite liberally right now.

I can't take them together since I must take Lion's Mane as night, due to drowsiness and ALCAR during the day otherwise I'll stay up. Ashwagandha is good anytime for me. If I take all during the day, the Lion's Mane will still overrule everything else and make me drowsy with brain fog. It does make me sleep deeper though.

Oh, I was a little unclear I guess. I meant together as in the same regimen, not taken exactly at the same time during the day. I've tried taking ashwagandha during the day since it is an AChEI but it seems somewhat sedative so I have to take it in the evening with my bacopa - produces very vivid dreams btw. I take ALCAR during the day and when I introduce lion's mane I'll probably take it as part of my sleep stack with ash and bacopa.

What are your impressions and thoughts on ash, ALCAR and lion's mane in the same regimen?

I was thinking the same thing months back but the combination didn't do well for me. It was the ALCAR. Lion's Mane seems to take longer to wear off while sleeping I've noticed, it still lingered a couple hours after waking. I also took ash, bacopa, schizandra, and adrenal pills at night at the time. In the morning I was taking Piracetam, Alpha-GPC and ALCAR. What I would feel was the slight brain fog for the first couple hours upon waking which was the lion's mane and taking the ALCAR felt like a stress headache, the same feeling as if I have too much choline. I couldn't make sense of the reaction, but once dropping the ALCAR everything was good. Otherwise the night time and daytime stacks both work fine for me separately, and good together without the ALCAR. If you decide to try it out, post your experience.

Edited by jlspartz, 08 February 2011 - 04:12 AM.

[brian101]

Is mushroomharvest.com a good source for lion's mane? Has anyone ordered from there?

[Germs111]

A few questions: Is Lion's mane safe? What is a good source in pill form? Is Fungi Perfecti good? What is a good dose for a ~160 lb person?

[trance]

Is mushroomharvest.com a good source for lion's mane? Has anyone ordered from there?

I have. Their lion's mane product seems excellent. One of the few supplements I can honestly say that I feel a difference in cognitively when I take, or miss, it.

[houdini]

Yeah but it is pricey, 40$ per month + S/H.
Grifron Maitake, Mushroom Wisdom on iHerb is 24$ per month, 17$ on Vitacost
Mushroom Science, Lion's Mane approx 30$
Fungi Perfecti Host Defense Lion's Mane 25$

[trance]

Yeah but it is pricey, 40$ per month + S/H.
Grifron Maitake, Mushroom Wisdom on iHerb is 24$ per month, 17$ on Vitacost
Mushroom Science, Lion's Mane approx 30$
Fungi Perfecti Host Defense Lion's Mane 25$

Oh, I take the bulk powder not the capsules, 1 teaspoon per day ... much more value, lasts a very long time. It doesn't taste too bad in my morning shake -- in fact, I don't even notice the mild taste now.

Edited by trance, 15 February 2011 - 06:03 PM.

[aLurker]

Regarding ALCAR, ashwaganda and lion's mane:

If you decide to try it out, post your experience.

Well, it might be a little too soon to say anything about this but I'll give some brief initial impressions anyway. As I said I'm already taking ALCAR and ashwagandha (along with a regimen containing 1 mg deprenyl, 500 mg curcumin, a lot of gotu kola, a lot of bacopa at night and some supplements). My legs started itching when I added a low dose of (15 drops of eclectic's liquid extract which according to them corresponds to 0.5 g of lion's mane). My scalp itched some before I added the lion's mane but now it seems to itch even more. It might be in my head since I've heard of the itchiness side effect before and my dosage at this point is admittedly low. Very hard to attribute anything specifically to lion's mane otherwise since I'm taking so much else. I guess the itchiness might be a good sign if you're after the NGF but it is also very annoying. I guess those obsessed with NGF could add huperzine A too. Any cognitive benefits from a combination to increase NGF might take a while though. Still undecided whether or not I'll keep taking lion's mane.. partly because of the cost and also because it is harder to concentrate when something itches. If the itching is mostly in my mind it will hopefully subside soon enough.

I don't think my subjective account here is all that reliable considering I haven't been on it for that long and fact is that I've got a pretty comprehensive stack but I can imagine combining things like ALCAR, ashwagandha, huperzine A and lion's mane to increase NGF is an interesting prospect in theory for some.

Edited by aLurker, 23 February 2011 - 03:13 PM.

[nito]

Regarding ALCAR, ashwaganda and lion's mane:

If you decide to try it out, post your experience.

Well, it might be a little too soon to say anything about this but I'll give some brief initial impressions anyway. As I said I'm already taking ALCAR and ashwagandha (along with a regimen containing 1 mg deprenyl, 500 mg curcumin, a lot of gotu kola, a lot of bacopa at night and some supplements). My legs started itching when I added a low dose of (15 drops of eclectic's liquid extract which according to them corresponds to 0.5 g of lion's mane). My scalp itched some before I added the lion's mane but now it seems to itch even more. It might be in my head since I've heard of the itchiness side effect before and my dosage at this point is admittedly low. Very hard to attribute anything specifically to lion's mane otherwise since I'm taking so much else. I guess the itchiness might be a good sign if you're after the NGF but it is also very annoying. I guess those obsessed with NGF could add huperzine A too. Any cognitive benefits from a combination to increase NGF might take a while though. Still undecided whether or not I'll keep taking lion's mane.. partly because of the cost and also because it is harder to concentrate when something itches. If the itching is mostly in my mind it will hopefully subside soon enough.

I don't think my subjective account here is all that reliable considering I haven't been on it for that long and fact is that I've got a pretty comprehensive stack but I can imagine combining things like ALCAR, ashwagandha, huperzine A and lion's mane to increase NGF is an interesting prospect in theory for some.

I used to take lions mane but only tried on bottle, heard that u need to be on it for at least 6 months thoughy. How long does NGF take to achieve, since i have started taking hyperzine A every 2 days?

[treetop]

Increasing NGF is supposedly a good thing, right? This report makes it sound negative? Can anyone clear up what this is saying?
link

[Germs111]

I have 500mg Fungi Perfecti Lion's mane capsules. How many should I take? The packaging says two capsules a day so I have been taking two capsules daily. Other questions: will the brain fog caused by Lion's mane subside by the time I wake up if I take it at night? Why does Lion's mane cause brain fog in the short-term if it is a cognitive enhancer?

[treetop]

It never gave me brain fog. I took 4g (4x 1000mg) mycelium per day for a while. I think it gave me a cognitive boost but it's hard to say because I was also taking bacopa and fish oil. I don't feel as good since I stopped taking them but then again I stopped taking fish oil and bacopa at the same time...

I'm going to start back up with my home grown lion's mane mycelium in a while; maybe next week. I just ran it through the coffee grinder.

[pinballwizard]

So it seems there are about 2 studies floating around on the internet pertaining to the benefits from Lion's Mane for stimulating NGF. I'll start off by posting the links:

http://findarticles....ag=content;col1

http://www.explorepu...gishi_11_4.html

this isn't a research paper but it gives a comprehensive overview of Lion's Mane in Layman's terms:

http://www.ultimatei.../lions-mane.php

So, what I've gathered from these two articles is that there are two beneficial parts of the Lion's mane mushroom. The first beneficial part of the mushroom is the fruit itself, or the "Mane" of the mushroom. Google lion's mane for images and you'll be able to understand easier.

Hericenones C-E and F-H are the active NGF stimulating components derived from the fruit of the mushroom.

Erinacines A-I are the active NGF stimulating components derived from the mycelium of the mushroom. Mycelium are the root structures of the mushroom and look like little white threads. These compounds derived from the mycelium were found to be multiple times more effective at stimulating NGF production.

The newly-discovered erinacine H stimulated 31.5 /- 1.7 pg/ml of NGF secretion into the medium at 33.3 [micro]g/ml concentration, which was five times greater than NGF secretion in the absence of the compound. The erinacines are the most powerful inducers of NGF synthesis among all currently identified natural compounds.

One study evaluates the chemicals performance on rats but the one I found more interesting was the study performed on 100 elderly people in Japan who demonstrated some form of brain related disease.

All patients were elderly and suffered from cerebrovascular disease, degenerative orthopedic disease, Parkinson's disease, spinocerebellar degeneration, diabetic neuropathy, spinal cord injury, or disuse syndrome.

The study administered 5g of dried lion's mane to 50 patients a day for 6 months after which an improvement was noticed in the patients cognition.

The results of this preliminary study show that after six months of taking Lion's Mane mushroom, six out of seven dementia patients demonstrated improvements in their perceptual capacities, and all seven had improvements in their overall FIM score (see Figures 3 and 4).

Quite an interesting study. From everything I've read it seems this substance is completely safe. If you google it you can find many forums and articles on ways to cook lion's mane as well as grow your own. Apparently it has a very mild flavor that some compare to lobster. Yum Yum.

Another interesting point is that it can be found all over north America, Europe and Asia. this spring or perhaps next fall I'll have to get out hiking and keep my eyes peeled for the mushroom. I think I will definitely look into adding lion's mane to my supplements.

Tomorrow, I'm going to try to see if I can find any research on negative effects of stimulating NGF production.

So what brand are you recommending and at what dosage? I had an adverse reaction to Cipro which can cause nerve damage. I am very interested in taking this. But, seeing that the experimental dose is 5 grams, we would need to take some sort of equivalent of this. What is the best place to take 5 grams a day? Please someone respond, thanks.

Edited by pinballwizard, 09 April 2011 - 08:50 AM.

[hav]

Here's a few more Lion's Mane sources I've stumbled across:

Invincible Herbs:
http://www.invincibl...ne-Extract.html

I've tried their 2 oz pack and it was delivered very promptly. It doesn't specify the part used but its an extract standardized to 30% polysaccarides. Didn't come with a COA but I haven't asked for one yet.

Aloha Medicinals:
http://www.alohamedi...om/hericium.htm

I haven't tried these folks yet but I probably will. Theirs is a full spectrum product which I think means they use the whole mushroom and do not extract. Here's the link they sent me about that:
http://www.alohamedi...ty_Web_Page.htm
They also sent me an in-house COA indicating 27% polysaccarides which seems to me to be almost as strong as the extract above. In addition to the caps on their web page, they e-mailed me a bulk price of $100 for 1 kg.

Howard

Edited by hav, 20 June 2011 - 09:19 PM.

[golden1]

I reported earlier in this thread about lions mane and ran out. The enhanced 3d depth perception and extremely clear thinking wore off after about 3 weeks. I have now started again @ a similar dose of 1-3g/day of MRLUSA lions mane powder and I can surely notice the effects coming back. It's definitely doing something positive and it seems more effective than anything else I tried(and I've tried almost everything). The closest thing to it with as obvious effects is aniracetam, which also gives me enhanced vision and hearing processing. NA-RALA comes close but the effect doesn't last that long even with a high dose( 300mg na-rala).

Not only do I notice the obvious sensory enhancements and thinking ease from it, but my brain just "feels" cleaner and healthier is the best way I can put it.

I think it would be really helpful for recovering from mdma/stimulant abuse as it gives me a great deal of natural feeling energy and motivation while seemingly reversing any cloudiness at least semi-permanently from mdma/other potentially damaging drugs. I'm just saying it would probably be most useful for brain recovery, but it also definitely works for me whether I feel that my brain is functioning at its best or not.

[treetop]

I am thinking of putting some of my extra homegrown lion's mane up on e-bay. Is that cool to say here and would anyone here be interested?

[treetop]

I see a got a reputation of -1 after my last post. Oh well. I grew out more this time than last so I do have some extra. My thoughts are that the extracts may not have all of the beneficial erinacines and hericenones, which may all work synergistically, but admittedly I have never tried an extract. Who knows? I am hoping to stick to cycling my own full spectrum as long as I don’t run out.

Well, here's the thing. I have found Lion's Mane to be one of the best noots for me so far, my other two favorites being Bacopa and DHA, and I have tried quite a few others by now. It’s hard to tell how it would do as a standalone because I always took it while also taking at least one my other favorites, DHA, and most of the time I was also taking Bacopa. I definitely noticed a boost in performance since I added Lion’s mane. I went through 4 bottles of the Fungi Perfecti brand and then starting taking my homegrown Lion’s mane for a few more months before I ran out and then went through one more bottle of the Fungi Perfecti brand. I then stopped taking Bacopa around the same time. So, for a little over a month I have been taking only Carlson’s DHA Gems and about a week and a half ago I added Bacopa back in to the mix. In about another week and a half I will be supplementing again with Lion’s Mane, this time just my own, which contains
mostly mycelium but also contains fruit bodies as well as some of the growth medium, to see if I get the same perceived boost. So I’ll be taking all three of my favorites together again for about a month. Then I am going to cut both the Lion’s Mane and Bacopa again for about a month then restart the cycle again, but this time I will take just Lion’s Mane and DHA for about two weeks before adding in the Bacopa. As you can see, I have no plans to discontinue DHA at all!

[guyverx]

It's my fourth day of taking mushroom science lions mane brand. Once in the morning and once at night. So far i have experienced dreams where i come across as more confident and a bit more aggressive. The dreams have also been partly about solving things e.g mathematical stuff or logical things. I never used to dream like this. Maybe a placebo but i am quite enjoying it, as i am getting to see another version of myself:)

On the flips side, vinpocetine that i also bought have been given me headaches. I need to take less than 20 mg i guess!

Interesting.
The only LM I have taken is Swanson.
I took three caps before bed and had similar dreams to how you describe yours.
And theirs according to this board is not even a really good extract.
I am reading the whole thread to get some pointers on which brand to buy.
And I'll probably buy Cordyceps and Reishi from the same place.

[guyverx]

I'll probably end up trying the mrlusa brand or the myco essentials.
Going to get some cordyceps of either too to boost my energy levels.
I've blown cash on physical performance enhancer's in my day so this should not be too bad.
Plus not dating/having a relationship gives one considerably more disposable spending money.I want to thank you guys for a very informative and educational thread.

[canz]

This thread has been very enlightening. I now have a much better understanding for lion's mane. I haven't tried it yet, but am definitely on the verge.

[Awad]

Some questions:
Due to retinopathy of prematurity I have a vision impairment that is impossible to correct by wearing glasses (laser surgery, scarring, you know). If I know correctly, retinal cells are a kind of nerve cells so maybe increasing NGF may restore some vision?

[Ark]

BTW, did you know Cannabis stimulates NGF, IGFII in the brain.

It's nice to stack with lots of Lion's Mane~

[Mikael Llerena]

Speaking of NGF, i've heard that caffeine has a negative impact on it?

[choqueiro]

Hi. I´m currently taking Lion´s Mane. I find this study. Please read the "Discusssion" paragraph: "NGF can be operative in growth modulation of malignant tumor cells possessing high-affinity binding sites for the molecule".

http://cancerres.aac...0/2212.full.pdf

What dou you think about it?? It´s a real risk taking Lion´s Mane and increasing NGF??

Thanks

[EricR]

Here is the abstract and a link to a study called "The Nerve Growth Factor Administrated as Eye Drops Activates Mature and Precursor Cells in Subventricular Zone of Adult Rats". The full text is available at the linked page.

http://www.architalb...cle/view/149205

The possibility to take advantage from the nerve growth factor (NGF) ability to induce recovery of damaged tissue has been largely explored in animal models and humans. Recently, the successful use of the ocular administration of NGF in ophthalmology, and the evidences that from the eyes NGF can access to the brain have stimulated new fields of research and open further perspectives to the clinical application of this neurotrophin. In our previous studies we have demonstrated the efficacy of NGF eye drop treatment to improved behavioural deficits and recover structural and biochemical alterations occurring follow brain lesion in animals. Since NGF exerts neuroreparative effects in brain by acting on mature neurons and neuronal precursors localised in germinal subventricular zone (SVZ), the present study has been aimed to evaluate the effects of NGF eye drop administration on the expression of the mitotic marker Ki67 in brain of adult rats. We found that a single ocular administration (10 μl) of 200 μg/mL NGF solution is sufficient to enhance the distribution of Ki67-positive cells also expressing p75 neurotrophin receptors in the proliferating layer of the SVZ. In addition, NGF treatment induces an increase of levels of brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) in forebrain. This data further supports the efficacy of ocular applied NGF to affect brain activities and suggests that NGF also by inducing local factors, including BDNF, can activate the machinery regulating the proliferation and maturation of neuronal precursor in brain.

[QuantumTubule]

Hi. I´m currently taking Lion´s Mane. I find this study. Please read the "Discusssion" paragraph: "NGF can be operative in growth modulation of malignant tumor cells possessing high-affinity binding sites for the molecule".

http://cancerres.aac...0/2212.full.pdf

What dou you think about it?? It´s a real risk taking Lion´s Mane and increasing NGF??

Thanks

choqueiro, You have definitly highlighted an important potential risk, that sadly may be real to a limited extent.Damn

I can think of a few substances that increase NGF and also increase lung cancer mortality.Until now i had not believed this to be causative. Let us for instance, look at Nicotine;

Here I establish the Potential for Nicotine to increase NGF in a cell line, It does remain to be seen whether this occurs in relevant Lung Cell lines(As this increase in cancer growth is specific to Lung Cancer except for Glia Cancer(brain)). More investigation maybe necessary to determine the exact pathway of effect of increased NGF due to Nicotine.(Suspected Polyamine)

Mechanisms of nicotine mediated communication between NGF-differentiated PC12 and HEL cells.

Krjukova J, Akerman KE.

Source

Division of the Cell Physiology, Department of Physiology, BMC, Uppsala University, Husargatan 3, Sweden.

Abstract

HEL 92.1.7 cells were immobilized among nerve growth factor (NGF)-differentiated PC12 cells. Nicotine caused an immediate Ca2+ mobilisation in the PC12 cells followed by a delayed secondary Ca2+ response in the HEL 92.1.7 cells. The Ca2+ elevation in response to nicotine in PC12 cells was abolished by Na+ removal. The response was diminished by omega-contoxin GVIA (omega-CTx-GVIA) in PC12 cell neurites and by nifedipine in the cell bodies, respectively. The secondary response in HEL 92.1.7 cells was blocked by omega-CTx-GVIA. The results suggest that nicotinic receptor-mediated depolarisation and subsequent activation of voltage dependent Ca2+ channels (VDCC) are sufficient to induce transmitter release from NGF-differentiated PC12 cell varicosities without requirement for additional Ca2+ influx via nicotinic receptor ion channels.



Here I establish that Nicotine stimulate Cancer growth in apartently a consistent manner with NGF. Dual Casaulity has not be shown. But there appears to be linked specificity, indicating a likelihood for casuality.

NICOTINE DIRECTLY SPEEDS LUNG CANCER GROWTH

http://www.webmd.com...eds-lung-cancer
July 20, 2006 -- Nicotine directly speeds the growth of lung cancerlung cancer, University of South Florida researchers report.
Tobacco smoke contains agents that cause cancercancer. But nicotine itself isn't one of them. Instead, nicotine promotes the growth of existing cancer cells.
Exactly how nicotine does this is now becoming clear: It plugs directly into lung cells, where it jump-starts the cells' growth machinery. If those cells are cancerous, nicotine makes them grow wildly.
"These events can be expected to contribute to the growth and progression of tumors exposed to nicotine through tobacco smoke or cigarette substitutes," suggest Piyali Dasgupta, PhD, and colleagues at H. Lee Moffitt Cancer Center, USF, Tampa, Fla.
Dasgupta and colleagues found that nicotine plugs into receptors called nicotinic acetylcholine receptors or nAChRs. These receptors are found throughout the body.
The finding may help explain why chemotherapy for breast cancerbreast cancer is less effective in smokers and why cigarette smoke helps many different kinds of cancer grow.
The study appears in the August issue of the Journal of Clinical Investigation.


This should be noted as only one example of a substance that positive modulates NGF that also increase Cancer cell growth rate in the Lung. More research is required to understand how and why it does this, At present I dont have a very clear conceptual view of the process.
Some Pro-NGF substances have been shown to increase mortality in Humans at a statistically significant level.

Obviously someone with medical "cognitive decline" maybe in a position to justify this moderate risk. Maybe someone young and very health could also justify this lesser(age) risk, if improved cognition resulted, which because of the personal circumstance lead to a great increase in Utility. It really becomes a personal call. Are you content? Do you really notice the Benefit?