87 replies to this topic

[rvogels1]

Has anyone tried taking smaller doses over time? I'm really liking the 80mg-100mg doses I've been taking over the past week. It's obviously different from "attack dosing" and you don't get the fun, energizing, anti-anxiety feelings. However, you don't crash and you still have enhanced focus, and therefore enhanced memory consolidation. Different concentrations will yield different consequences, so do you think that the long term effects would be the same?

[fql]

Talk to me guys. I'm interested in this.

The reviews seem too good.

[Justchill]

I never had a sulbutiamine crash after taking 600-1000mgs ...
Also never tried very low doses, could your reaction be placebo?

[FadingGlow]

Sulbutiamine does absolutely nothing to me either. I got mine from smartpowders.. Taken up to 1gram. Felt nothing. Actually felt slightly tired.

[Justchill]

strange? does it taste bitter?

[noos]

I tried 1 ml of sulbutiamine (should be about 320mg) this morning and didn't notice much, could be that I downed it with water and nothing else besides a few peanuts for breakfast.

I just downed 0.5ish ml (~160mg) dissolved in olive oil and fiber oatmeal, should be a better way to take this from the minimal amount of research I've done on this.

sulbutiamine should be taken sublingually for max effect, it breaks down in the digestive tract if ingested

Citation? Thiamine sure doesn't and it is very similar...

Citation for B1=sulbutiamine?
B1 is water soluble while Sulbutiamine is liposoluble.
At least read the Wikipedia.
I am not sure it breaks down in the gut though, I would say no.
And again and again for those who do not notice effects, it takes time at 200/400 mg/day and the insert reads don´t take for more than 4 weeks, why?, I don´t know.

[Michael Campbell]

That stuff tastes like chemical warfare; I can't even imagine taking it sublinguallly...

[manic_racetam]

That stuff tastes like chemical warfare; I can't even imagine taking it sublinguallly...

It's like chewing up a multi-vitamin... nasty, but bearable. At least it doesn't taste like poison like prami or nefiracetam.

[health_nutty]

That stuff tastes like chemical warfare; I can't even imagine taking it sublinguallly...

It's like chewing up a multi-vitamin... nasty, but bearable. At least it doesn't taste like poison like prami or nefiracetam.

You will burn your mouth if you try to take Pram sublingually.

[noos]

sulbutiamine should be taken sublingually for max effect, it breaks down in the digestive tract if ingested

I don´t think there is any reason to take it sublingually except to reduce dose/faster effect but anyone tried it? How much will you use? Maybe I try 50 or 100 mg.

[manic_racetam]

That stuff tastes like chemical warfare; I can't even imagine taking it sublinguallly...

It's like chewing up a multi-vitamin... nasty, but bearable. At least it doesn't taste like poison like prami or nefiracetam.

You will burn your mouth if you try to take Pram sublingually.

Whoops, didn't mean to sound like I was suggesting trying prami sublingually... that would be a very bad idea HA!

[health_nutty]

That stuff tastes like chemical warfare; I can't even imagine taking it sublinguallly...

It's like chewing up a multi-vitamin... nasty, but bearable. At least it doesn't taste like poison like prami or nefiracetam.

You will burn your mouth if you try to take Pram sublingually.

Whoops, didn't mean to sound like I was suggesting trying prami sublingually... that would be a very bad idea HA!

I didn't think you were, I just wanted to warn people against it because was really painful for days! ouch

[nito]

That stuff tastes like chemical warfare; I can't even imagine taking it sublinguallly...

It's like chewing up a multi-vitamin... nasty, but bearable. At least it doesn't taste like poison like prami or nefiracetam.

You will burn your mouth if you try to take Pram sublingually.

Not as much as you will burn if you drop some fungi perfect liquid lions mane in your mouth and move it araound. OMG that makes my tounge so numb!

[JChief]

I'll repeat my usual bit that goes something like "900mg (3 x 300 mg scoop) of sulbutiamine powder works every time like clock work. Within an hour my mood is elevated, I feel more urge to socialize, and it boost libido. It really sharpens the wit as I like to say. It's definitely not placebo. It's just as predictable as, say, cannabis consumption. Very distinct. I have tried smaller doses (ie 300mg) but never experienced any effect. I also have not tried taking continual small doses. Again, I feel like this is something that you should not take every day."

[JChief]

Seems like the tolerance issue is real?
Is there any solid evidence?

I'm currently having fatigue. Motivation is low. Not sure if it is due to other factors like mood.

Seems like no stimulant actually works long term. I seriously need stimulants because otherwise my vision is always blurred. Caffeine works for my vision as well as sulbutiamine, but tolerance develops. I also need the energy because I can't live a normal life without them (ie no motivation).

I can relate to the blurry vision you speak of somewhat (as it relates to sulbutiamine anyway). I think this supplement has an effect on pupil dilation. While driving at night I notice that headlights and other light sources have less of an aura and sharpens the vision. Great for when driving at night when I don't have my glasses anyhow. But yes lots of reports of tolerance. Where there is smoke there is fire. I can't think of any activating substance that I'd want to take every single day though. Gotta chill out every once in a while right? Ha right.

[Justchill]

I once had the awful idea to snort pramiracetam... omg my nose bled like for a week! That stuff is nasty!
L-arginine also taste nasty, as does PEA

[Orajel]

It seems like there's a lot of speculation going on in this thread. Known facts about sulbutiamine include: decreased dopamine levels(pf cortex), increase in D1 receptor sites(pf cortex), decrease in kainate binding sites, increased thiamine levels in the brain. The rest is speculation. It is thought to up regulate the reticular activating system which would explain the stimulating effects, but this is not proven. I don't think you can accurately call sulbutiamine a stimulant, it definitely doesnt work like any known stimulants. There also doesn't seem to be any proof that one would build tolerance, I've been taking it daily for weeks and don't notice any tolerance. I don't see how anything about its mechanism of action could induce tolerance, it has the opposite effect of cocaine and other tolerance inducing compounds (DECREASES dopamine and UPREGULATES receptors)

[What'sAllThisThen]

It seems like there's a lot of speculation going on in this thread. Known facts about sulbutiamine include: decreased dopamine levels(pf cortex), increase in D1 receptor sites(pf cortex), decrease in kainate binding sites, increased thiamine levels in the brain. The rest is speculation. It is thought to up regulate the reticular activating system which would explain the stimulating effects, but this is not proven. I don't think you can accurately call sulbutiamine a stimulant, it definitely doesnt work like any known stimulants. There also doesn't seem to be any proof that one would build tolerance, I've been taking it daily for weeks and don't notice any tolerance. I don't see how anything about its mechanism of action could induce tolerance, it has the opposite effect of cocaine and other tolerance inducing compounds (DECREASES dopamine and UPREGULATES receptors)

If Sulbutiamine decreases dopamine and upregulates the receptors, what would the effect be if one were to cycle between sulbutiamine and dopamine precursors/boosters? Such as a few days of Sulbutiamine followed by a few days of Tyrosine, etc. Would Tyrosine be more effective after the days of Sulbutiamine?

[Reformed-Redan]

This is why wikipedia is such a fickle thing.
Someone, quite possibly more knowledgeable than me, makes this statement on wiki:

It also potentiates glutamatergic activity in the prefrontal cortex through a reduction in the density of kainate glutamate receptors, which may occur in response to a modulation of intrasynaptic glutamate.^[19]

<sup>Yet, I go and read the study and can't see how this person was lead to that conclusion. I wouldn't experiment with my glutamate receptors located near the hippocamp.

The study reads:</sup>

Thus, the changes in density of kainate receptor in the cortex lead to suggest that sulbutiamine and/or its metabolites may modulate the cortical glutamatergic transmission. In fact, the rapid decrease observed immediately following a single injection suggests a direct effect on the cortical glutamatergic transmission, for instance a modulation of the intra-synaptic glutamate concentration. Cellular mechanisms responsible for the effects of sulbutiamine are unknown.

Edited by redan, 01 April 2012 - 11:49 PM.

[Orajel]

It seems like there's a lot of speculation going on in this thread. Known facts about sulbutiamine include: decreased dopamine levels(pf cortex), increase in D1 receptor sites(pf cortex), decrease in kainate binding sites, increased thiamine levels in the brain. The rest is speculation. It is thought to up regulate the reticular activating system which would explain the stimulating effects, but this is not proven. I don't think you can accurately call sulbutiamine a stimulant, it definitely doesnt work like any known stimulants. There also doesn't seem to be any proof that one would build tolerance, I've been taking it daily for weeks and don't notice any tolerance. I don't see how anything about its mechanism of action could induce tolerance, it has the opposite effect of cocaine and other tolerance inducing compounds (DECREASES dopamine and UPREGULATES receptors)

If Sulbutiamine decreases dopamine and upregulates the receptors, what would the effect be if one were to cycle between sulbutiamine and dopamine precursors/boosters? Such as a few days of Sulbutiamine followed by a few days of Tyrosine, etc. Would Tyrosine be more effective after the days of Sulbutiamine?

All I know is that sulbutiamines ability to increase D1 receptor density is directly related to reduced dopamine release. Attempting to increase dopamine levels could counteract that specific effect and do nothing at all, depending on what conclusion you want to draw from that info.

Keep in mind that if you were to use sulbutiamine and achieve that effect, you would be more sensitive to a dopamine response. The tricky thing is that we're playing with our bodies feedback response, and increasing dopamine levels would in turn down regulate the receptors. It seems that if one were to continue using sulbutiamine, one could remain sensitive to a dopamine response, assuming the dopamine responses were intermittent and not constant.

Edited by Orajel, 02 April 2012 - 01:08 AM.

[Junk Master]

All I know is ever since starting Uridine whenever I take sulbutiamine I feel terrible. My mood noticeably flatlines and although I'm more alert I'm not a happy camper.

Really an odd supplement-- fist time I took it I felt great, almost modafinil-like; but subsequent doses have left me irritable, jittery, or downright depressed. Plus, the taste sticks with you-- bitter multivitamin mixed with bile.

[Orajel]

If sulbutiamine causes acute decrease in dopamine, why does it make to feel so good?

[Lufega]

I use sulbitiamine on and off sporadically but I have a pharma. version called Arcalion. Very neat stuff. I've never taken it straight for more than a few days. No idea why. Guess I'm scared it'll stop working so well.

If it does decrease Pf dopamine it could make you feel down if you combine it with uridine since this too decreases dopamine somehow.

[skypower]

If sulbutiamine causes acute decrease in dopamine, why does it make to feel so good?

How are you dosing it? Empty stomach or not?

[fntms]

When I take sulbutiamine, I find it much easier to get up in the morning, feeling fully refreshed, with average or less than average sleep duration (6hrs). The reverse of the effect I get when I have too much caffeine during the day (and feel groggy until I had my coffee).

I also get extra mental energy, speed and verbal fluidity. Some aggression too, and not so great for mood (a bit like a choline effect for me)...

It's supposed to be cycled (not used for more than 6 weeks IIRC from the Arcalion label).

[Justchill]

Sulbutiamine was one of the most useless things i ever tried. I got the real stuff , it's freely available OTC here under the name Arcalion from the lab that created it , Servier.
Never felt anything at all from it at any dose , i tried it for a week. In fact it's widely considered as placebo by most doctors and pharmacists here.
Once , i ate half the 30 pill box ( they're 200mg pills , they look and taste like M&M's :-) ) , probably 15 pills at once , so close to 3 grams. I should have bought some real M&M's instead.

Of course, YMMV.

 

Haha.. if they taste like M&M's it was definately something else! That stuff taste like shit!

My guess is you bought real m&m's! :D

[JChief]

Firing up sulbutiamine again, 9 years later lol! 

[rodentman]

Firing up sulbutiamine again, 9 years later lol! 

 

Yeah.  I'm starting it in a few days as well.