16 replies to this topic

[caffeinehead]

I ordered pram from smartpowders a few weeks ago...have been dosing 800 mg daily after breakfast.

Things I noticed:

- significantly improved motivation. I get about 2 hours more worth of work done every day, compared to pre-pram
- reading became slightly easier
- marked improvement in speaking abilities, words and sentences flow
- definitely improved mood, especially when combined with caffeine
- not sure how to explain this, but before taking pram, I spent some time every day imagining crazy movies\situations\ideas in my head, very intensely. This has been going on since childhood. Many of my ideas come from these sessions, but ever since introducing pram, these sessions have drastically reduced. My creativity\problem solving abilities haven't taken a hit though, so this is a big plus overall.

One Freak Incident:

Once every 4 weeks, I smoke an extremely small amount of marijuana, about one puff. It allows my subconscious thoughts to surface, and also helps me have 'realizations' about current situations in my life and how to effectively deal with them.

Well, I took the 'puff' and about 30 minutes later was talking with some friends. All of a sudden, I couldn't speak. I was trying to say "I wanted to let you guys know" but all that came out in several successions was this:

- I want to...guys...let you
- I want to...know you...guys
- I just want to let you know...guys

I COULD NOT put the sentence together for my life. Now, something like this has never happened to me with marijuana, I've used it hundreds of times before. It was very frightening at the time, and the first thought that came to my head was "PRAM".

Despite the positive effects pram has had on my mentality, I'm slowly tapering down because of this incident, maybe switching to the more-studied piracetam. The memory loss was scary, I don't want it to happen again. Unfortunately, I won't know if it was the weed or pram that caused this, but I'm comfortable tapering down the pram in any case. Plus, I recently read a thread on imminst about pram and potential neuron death.

Besides that one occurrence, I've only experienced good things while supplementing with pramiracetam.

Edited by caffeinehead, 20 February 2010 - 06:22 PM.

[What'sAllThisThen]

I had the same bumbling happen to me the first day I took Piracetam on the 9th. I can't say it was the Piracetam, because it was several hours after I took it and for my first dose I only took 50mg. But I bumbled when asking for ketchup, and another time that day of which I don't remember the situation.

I only really noticed it, because I thought I recalled bumbling being mentioned on this board somewhere before. I don't remember what the thread that mentioned bumbling was about, but I noticed it and since it was the first day taking Piracetam I noted the coincidence.

It likely was just a coincidence since it didn't happen again over the next few days and I had increased the Piracetam by 50mg each day.

[Rhcan09]

50mg of Piracetam - I'd struggle to think that had any effect on your body at all. Especially when dosages of 100x that per day are common for some users, and even 1 pill when capsulated is generally 16x (800mg)

For Pramiracetam, I've observed that it's very difficult to get the dosage correct for your body, and if you exceed the sweet spot, it almost takes you in the opposite direction.

What Choline source are you taking with your Pram?

I generally take 500mg, three times a day. I'm starting to question whether that's a bit too much. It certainly is when I don't space them reasonably (which I tend to think is around a 6 hour gap)

Edited by Rhcan09, 20 February 2010 - 08:40 PM.

[caffeinehead]

whatsallthisthen - see rhcan09's post. 50 mg is a very low dose
rhcan09 - I know what you mean. I take a minimum of 500 mg, maximum of about 1200. I can only speak for myself and I think 1200 is enough for the day. Using alpha-gpc as my choline source. Sometimes I skip choline for a few days when I feel the choline blues coming. Also, I just started Piracetam today - while tapering down pram.

[Rhcan09]

What are the choline blues?

Perhaps the effect I've experienced is that - I always take CDP Choline with Pram, so maybe I've been naive not to think Choline could contribute to the effect I notice.

I take 200mg CDP Choline, three times per day, with my Pram. Wonder if it would be silly to do my dosages like this:

Early:
Pram 500mg
CDP Choline 200mg

Mid Day:
-Same-

Afternoon/Evening:
Pram 500mg only

Does anyone know whether the Choline / Racetam interaction is an instant-in-time type of relationship, where you need to take them together always - or would it make sense to assume that taking the Choline twice early in the day, and skipping it for the 3rd dose of Pram would be no problem? IE, the choline levels already present would be sufficient?

[acantelopepope]

What are the choline blues?

Perhaps the effect I've experienced is that - I always take CDP Choline with Pram, so maybe I've been naive not to think Choline could contribute to the effect I notice.

I take 200mg CDP Choline, three times per day, with my Pram. Wonder if it would be silly to do my dosages like this:

Early:
Pram 500mg
CDP Choline 200mg

Mid Day:
-Same-

Afternoon/Evening:
Pram 500mg only

Does anyone know whether the Choline / Racetam interaction is an instant-in-time type of relationship, where you need to take them together always - or would it make sense to assume that taking the Choline twice early in the day, and skipping it for the 3rd dose of Pram would be no problem? IE, the choline levels already present would be sufficient?

Choline is cumulative, meaning one dose a day is enough, and if used continually, more than enough. I would recommend using less choline over time, especially if you are using an extracted source (not coming directly from food like eggs).

[Rhcan09]

I'm going to cut out my evening CDP Choline.

This is my day regime (modified to remove CDP from evening) - thoughts?

(Neuro PS is just Phosphatidyl Serine)

[Owen Mac]

I'm going to cut out my evening CDP Choline.

This is my day regime (modified to remove CDP from evening) - thoughts?

(Neuro PS is just Phosphatidyl Serine)

Hey Rhcan09,

Just out of curiosity, do you ever get an upset stomach from taking that many tablets throughout the day? Sorry if this seems like a random question..

[Rhcan09]

Hi, nope

Not sure I have much else to offer - I can't say I consistently take them with or without food either. It just doesn't seem to be an issue for me.

I used to get a bit of an upset stomach when I'd take Aniracetam and Choline Bitartrate as a powder mixed in juice - but now that I take everything in capsule form, no problems at all. With that said, I think the powder/juice upset may have been more due to the fact that I was taking Choline Bitartrate or Citrate, which always smelled a bit like fish, and was never terribly appetizing.

[Animal]

If you're taking that much sulbutiamine every day you'll soon develop a tolerance.

[Rhcan09]

What would be a more reasonable sulb dosage?

I've thought about just taking it in the morning. 640mg first thing - then none for the rest of the day.

The concern I had, was the potential to crash in the afternoon-evening. Is that a rational concern?

[Jurence]

Caffeinehead, Piracetam greatly increases effects of psychedelics and depressants, and stimulants. What you experienced isn't uncommon (from reading other experiences and seeing friends').

[caffeinehead]

quick update guys - I added piracetam to the stack, bad move. It could be because of my neurochemistry, because I know everybody doesn't react like this, but I had a weird bipolar experience, oscillating from a steroid-abusers personality to depressed. Didn't take any this morning and feel great.

[brain]

I experienced something very similar to this with the pram, and without smoking weed on top of it. I dropped it, becuase I found the the increased focus it gave was only the appearance of increased focused, and that the nullification of emotion that it seemed to cause prevented me from being genuinely interested in much, and hence paying much attention/focusing. I could see this effect as being positive for some, but for me, I'm already too far on one side of that spectrum.

[the_colossus]

As a professional poker player Pram is oustanding. It greatly improves my motivation, concentration and focus. It also helps with my decision making and less affected by emotions.

Unfortunatly, it also gives me sedation and after a few hours I get a none choline related headache that builds throughout the day. If I take a little in the evening the sedation and headache isn't a problem. I'll experiment with lower dosages and taking a it a little earlier each day.

I take Aniracetam in the morning and afternoon. Not nearly as effective, still makes a lesser impact, doesn't have side effects and definitly makes makes me money.

[ian1983]

As a professional poker player Pram is oustanding. It greatly improves my motivation, concentration and focus. It also helps with my decision making and less affected by emotions.

Unfortunatly, it also gives me sedation and after a few hours I get a none choline related headache that builds throughout the day. If I take a little in the evening the sedation and headache isn't a problem. I'll experiment with lower dosages and taking a it a little earlier each day.

I take Aniracetam in the morning and afternoon. Not nearly as effective, still makes a lesser impact, doesn't have side effects and definitly makes makes me money.

Just to ask for a clarification. Do you mean Aniracetam is not nearly as effective, makes a lesser impact and doesn't have side effects as pramiracetam?

[the_colossus]

Yeah, thats what I mean.