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Best anticholinergic for cognitive enhancement/mood elevation?


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#31 Animal

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 05:33 PM

I sure wish it caused ischroma-style supermania in me, that seems fun.


Then you are a fucking idiot.


While they may be an idiot, who knows, how can you make that assessment based on them being sure piracetam caused some kind of mania? It sure as hell sent me into a type of mania.

Was it really necessary to call someone a fucking idiot. You sound like you might have some anger issues there Animal. How's that for judging and labeling someone?


I don't have anger issues, but I sometimes like to emphasise what I say with expletives. If anyone has experienced true mania then they would realise what a moronic comment tjcbs made. I don't mean an elevated mood, with high energy levels and a frantic thought process, I mean true delusional mania like Isochroma suffered. True mania is in the same class as schizophrenia in terms of personal and public danger, it's a horrible thing to experience, since once you come down (which you will) you realise just how irrational and destructive your thoughts truly were, and the delusions experienced typically stay with someone for life (in a less intense way) unless they go through extensive therapy. I am sure many murders have been committed by individuals in a manic state, though I can't be bothered to look up corroborating evidence.

It's a mental disorder, a disease of the mind, it's not some pleasant little euphoric episode like some of the ignorant people around here seem to think. Personally the amount of people that seem to be seeking a manic state on this forum disgusts me, and shows just how sickeningly desperate some people are to experience anything but the reality of their mundane lives. It's pathetic really.

Oh noes, I'm judging and labelling someone just like 99.9% of the human race do on a daily basis, quick call the waaaambulance! :laugh: LoL actually I'll reinforce my previous statement by saying tjcbs is an ignorant, juveile, shit.

You do realise he essentially said "I wish I was 'supermanic' and delusional, that seems fun"

Edited by Animal, 23 July 2010 - 05:36 PM.

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#32 medicineman

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 10:35 PM

anti-cholinergic drugs cause irreperable harm to memory when taken long term..... i dont care if your one time test worked wonders, i hope you do proper research on this...... this is talk from someone who wishes that you don't, out of ignorance, destroy your brain.

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#33 Logan

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 02:31 AM

I sure wish it caused ischroma-style supermania in me, that seems fun.


Then you are a fucking idiot.


While they may be an idiot, who knows, how can you make that assessment based on them being sure piracetam caused some kind of mania? It sure as hell sent me into a type of mania.

Was it really necessary to call someone a fucking idiot. You sound like you might have some anger issues there Animal. How's that for judging and labeling someone?


I don't have anger issues, but I sometimes like to emphasise what I say with expletives. If anyone has experienced true mania then they would realise what a moronic comment tjcbs made. I don't mean an elevated mood, with high energy levels and a frantic thought process, I mean true delusional mania like Isochroma suffered. True mania is in the same class as schizophrenia in terms of personal and public danger, it's a horrible thing to experience, since once you come down (which you will) you realise just how irrational and destructive your thoughts truly were, and the delusions experienced typically stay with someone for life (in a less intense way) unless they go through extensive therapy. I am sure many murders have been committed by individuals in a manic state, though I can't be bothered to look up corroborating evidence.

It's a mental disorder, a disease of the mind, it's not some pleasant little euphoric episode like some of the ignorant people around here seem to think. Personally the amount of people that seem to be seeking a manic state on this forum disgusts me, and shows just how sickeningly desperate some people are to experience anything but the reality of their mundane lives. It's pathetic really.

Oh noes, I'm judging and labelling someone just like 99.9% of the human race do on a daily basis, quick call the waaaambulance! :laugh: LoL actually I'll reinforce my previous statement by saying tjcbs is an ignorant, juveile, shit.

You do realise he essentially said "I wish I was 'supermanic' and delusional, that seems fun"


I realize now that you were saying that it was ignorant for tjcbs to say that kind of mania seemed like fun. That was a pretty stupid statement. Still, I think you're attitude is a little out of hand bro. You might realize this when you get a little older and chill the fuck out.

Mania, is mania, is mania.. There is no "TRUE" mania. That is an ignorant statement in itself. I understand that there are more severe forms of mania that reach completely unbearable levels, I have experienced this type of mania myself and I never want to experience it again.

Edited by morganator, 25 July 2010 - 02:34 AM.


#34 chrono

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 05:19 AM

I think he was just trying to say that the way isochroma wrote about a lot of his experiences makes it sound fun. People who didn't see isochroma's flip-out antics probably aren't aware of the possibility that he was experiencing more serious psychological problems.

Saying that mania is fun is pretty ridiculous, and probably somewhat insulting to people who have had to deal with that constellation of problems. But Animal, I don't think it's unfair to say that you could express this a little less personally and aggressively :happy:

#35 Animal

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 06:33 PM

Yeah my response was disproportionate, I was in a bit of a mood at the time. Having experienced psychotic mania myself, I do have a somewhat personal view on the subject, and it is extremely insulting when ignorant individuals say it seems like 'fun'. I mean, what do they think, that manic inpatients in a psychiatric ward being fed anti-psychotics while strapped to a bed are having fun? Because that's what mania can escalate to.

By saying 'true mania' I am of course differentiating from the hypomanic behaviours that people seem to ignorantly refer to as mania. There are different classifications of mania morganator, if you didn't know, which define it by intensity and behavioural characteristics. Saying all mania is the same is just plain wrong, I would have expected you to learn this having experienced it yourself.

#36 Logan

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 12:07 AM

Yeah my response was disproportionate, I was in a bit of a mood at the time. Having experienced psychotic mania myself, I do have a somewhat personal view on the subject, and it is extremely insulting when ignorant individuals say it seems like 'fun'. I mean, what do they think, that manic inpatients in a psychiatric ward being fed anti-psychotics while strapped to a bed are having fun? Because that's what mania can escalate to.

By saying 'true mania' I am of course differentiating from the hypomanic behaviours that people seem to ignorantly refer to as mania. There are different classifications of mania morganator, if you didn't know, which define it by intensity and behavioural characteristics. Saying all mania is the same is just plain wrong, I would have expected you to learn this having experienced it yourself.


I understand what you're saying. And, yes, I do know about the many different types of mania. I was talking about the use of the word "true" for mania, as if there are only a few types of mania and the rest are not "true" or real.

By the way, I do think there are more "fun" types of mania. I experienced this for years when I was hypomanic and full of energy. A friend of mine used to consider me one of the few people he knew that really knew how to have fun. I'll take those high energy hypomanic days over the last 2 and a half years any day. It was a very controlled type of manic behavior where I slept great for 7 to 9 hours a night, had great workouts, and functioned at a fairly high level. I don't think I will ever be the same.

My first day trying piracetam and oxiracetam along with a choline source I immediately felt great but then I could not sleep that night. The days that followed were riddled with fluctuating moods and emotions. I realized piracetam and oxiracetam had destabilized me and stopped taking them. I think I tried just taking piracetam at a low dose but I don't think it was helping me much and may have been hurting some. I have thought about trying just 400 mg of piracetam in the morning just to see what happens. I have some laying around and may try this soon.

Animal, do you take piracetam? I should know this but my hurting brain can't remember reading whether you were taking it or not.

#37 Animal

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 04:14 PM

By the way, I do think there are more "fun" types of mania. I experienced this for years when I was hypomanic and full of energy. A friend of mine used to consider me one of the few people he knew that really knew how to have fun. I'll take those high energy hypomanic days over the last 2 and a half years any day. It was a very controlled type of manic behavior where I slept great for 7 to 9 hours a night, had great workouts, and functioned at a fairly high level. I don't think I will ever be the same.

My first day trying piracetam and oxiracetam along with a choline source I immediately felt great but then I could not sleep that night. The days that followed were riddled with fluctuating moods and emotions. I realized piracetam and oxiracetam had destabilized me and stopped taking them. I think I tried just taking piracetam at a low dose but I don't think it was helping me much and may have been hurting some. I have thought about trying just 400 mg of piracetam in the morning just to see what happens. I have some laying around and may try this soon.

Animal, do you take piracetam? I should know this but my hurting brain can't remember reading whether you were taking it or not.


Nah I don't take piracetam, I have done in the past and it had a rather depressing effect on my mood

Was there a reason that your were hypomanic for such an extended period? I too have experienced an extended period of 'controlled' hypomania, where I had extremely high energy levels, was ridiculously social and could laugh at anything, while only sleeping 6 hours a night and feeling fully rested from this. After a couple of months it escalated to full mania, eventually incorporating psychotic behaviour, where I assaulted a number of hospital staff and destroyed a ward; a very unpleasant time for me.

Hypomania has a tendency to result in full mania if it is left untreated, or if a causative substance is not withdrawn. Now when I look back on my two months of hypomania, I realise just how false the elevated mood was, and the uncharacteristic behaviour it resulted in. Also although I was productive it was frantic, grandiose and tangential, meaning that nothing sustainable was really achieved. I'm actually much happier now then I was during that hypomanic phase, and it's a sustained happiness supported by appropriate medication and a tangible improvement in my general quality of living. I personally think 'happiness' is consistent and has to be supported by things of substance, whereas the elevated mood in hypomania is just just a false, transient and superficial state.

#38 Logan

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 08:15 PM

By the way, I do think there are more "fun" types of mania. I experienced this for years when I was hypomanic and full of energy. A friend of mine used to consider me one of the few people he knew that really knew how to have fun. I'll take those high energy hypomanic days over the last 2 and a half years any day. It was a very controlled type of manic behavior where I slept great for 7 to 9 hours a night, had great workouts, and functioned at a fairly high level. I don't think I will ever be the same.

My first day trying piracetam and oxiracetam along with a choline source I immediately felt great but then I could not sleep that night. The days that followed were riddled with fluctuating moods and emotions. I realized piracetam and oxiracetam had destabilized me and stopped taking them. I think I tried just taking piracetam at a low dose but I don't think it was helping me much and may have been hurting some. I have thought about trying just 400 mg of piracetam in the morning just to see what happens. I have some laying around and may try this soon.

Animal, do you take piracetam? I should know this but my hurting brain can't remember reading whether you were taking it or not.


Nah I don't take piracetam, I have done in the past and it had a rather depressing effect on my mood

Was there a reason that your were hypomanic for such an extended period? I too have experienced an extended period of 'controlled' hypomania, where I had extremely high energy levels, was ridiculously social and could laugh at anything, while only sleeping 6 hours a night and feeling fully rested from this. After a couple of months it escalated to full mania, eventually incorporating psychotic behaviour, where I assaulted a number of hospital staff and destroyed a ward; a very unpleasant time for me.

Hypomania has a tendency to result in full mania if it is left untreated, or if a causative substance is not withdrawn. Now when I look back on my two months of hypomania, I realise just how false the elevated mood was, and the uncharacteristic behaviour it resulted in. Also although I was productive it was frantic, grandiose and tangential, meaning that nothing sustainable was really achieved. I'm actually much happier now then I was during that hypomanic phase, and it's a sustained happiness supported by appropriate medication and a tangible improvement in my general quality of living. I personally think 'happiness' is consistent and has to be supported by things of substance, whereas the elevated mood in hypomania is just just a false, transient and superficial state.


I was basically living in la la land and not dealing with reality, or at least not all of reality, for a pretty long time. I was taking Zoloft which worked great in many ways and I felt good without side effects(at least not any bad ones). I don't think I was in a constant classic hypomania where one doesn't require as much sleep, it's more like I was simply on the manic side of things half of the time. I think some of it had to do with me being young and very athletic and having tons of natural energy and stamina. I thrived off of feeling good and having energy. I hate to admit it but I also think I allowed my looks to get to my head, giving me superficial confidence(a psychiatrist I saw thought I might have some kind of personality disorder as a result of my looks). Though, I never acted like someone that they knew or thought they were good looking. I was just crazy and wild and didn't give a shit about what other people thought of me. I was very unconventional in may ways. Escape was my life. Whether it was through playing my bass guitar in a band and by myself, being able to play basketball for hours at a time, working at the gym, going out and getting wasted and having one night stands, or having sex on a regular basis with multiple different partners, I was pretty much living a life of escape. I don't contribute all of this to my being bipolar. I think escaping was a a result of a combination of my bipolar and my reaction to having to deal with so much bullshit growing up.

Zoloft combined with some fish oil definitely made me feel good. I think this combination in conjunction my psychological issues are what contributed to me being in this very long period of high energy, happy go lucky, free spirited and crazy state. I think it was a form of controlled hypomania or mania. The only reason why it came to an end was because I stopped taking Zoloft, got a little older, and the perfect storm of stressful events and circumstances(including not being on Zoloft anymore) sent me into a horrible 5 week long mixed mania where I was very agitated, had racing obsessive thoughts, pacing, and the ability to only sleep for about 3 hours a night. That's when I finally had someone drive me to the hospital and I found out I was bipolar and was given Depakote and Zyprexa to take me out of the mania. I haven't been the same ever since for several reasons. Now life is pure hell and I am physically, physiologically, and psychologically damaged.

I agree that hypomania for the most part is a superficial state of happiness. I do think it is possible to be in a sort of in between state where you are fairly in touch with reality and function pretty normally but still exhibit some kind of manic behavior. I do Much of those 8 years when I was on the manic side I had genuine feelings of happiness, fell in love, and had a the ability to fully experience and feel empathy, compassion, joy, and sadness. Damn I miss those years.

Edited by morganator, 27 July 2010 - 08:30 PM.


#39 nito

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 07:10 PM

how come u dont give zoloft another go since you were doing good on it?

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#40 Logan

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 08:11 PM

how come u dont give zoloft another go since you were doing good on it?


My doing good also had a lot to do with may ability to perform physically, look and feel young, and escape the ugly reality of life through having sex and partying on the weekends. When these things were noticeably compromised, so too was my mental well being(one of the reasons I spiraled quickly into the major mixed mania that sent me into the hospital two and a half years ago). Plus, I have returned to Zoloft two times and it did not seem to have the same mood lifting and mood stabilizing effects at any dose. I am taking Prozac and 300 mg of lithium carbonate right now. I will be getting off Prozac soon and have considered returning to Zoloft once again, but this time I might add Nortriptyline. I have been told that it is possible my brain chemistry has been altered by my mixed episodes and all the medication trials, so this may be why Zoloft alone does not have the same effect. I KNOW Zoloft at 100 mg was working some magic. At any other dose I just did not feel right, and without Zoloft I simply did not feel normal or alive. On 100 mg I flat out felt "normal".




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