60 replies to this topic

[blackbox]

I agree MK4 is the way to go.
MK4 has been used for variety of ailments in Japan from 50's with great success.
MK7 is a result of fermentation and calling this substance natural is misleading. MK7 is an alien form to our body.
I once tried 2mg of MK7, it gave me horrible headache and couldn't function for a full day.

I also find this thread sad since the thread starter's valid point was so viciously attacked.
Does his nationality have something to do with it?
Then is really sad....

[mustardseed41]

outsider: Well a lot of people don't know how to argue their points eloquently and a lot of the time peer reviewed references and well thought out reason are left out. Unfortunately some people respond to this with naming calling which is the lowest level of disagreement and the thread turns into a childish internet fight.

To get a better understanding of how civilized people should disagree with each other please see the following chart:

You really seem to like to post this. Kinda goofy if you ask me.

[mustardseed41]

I agree MK4 is the way to go.
MK4 has been used for variety of ailments in Japan from 50's with great success.
MK7 is a result of fermentation and calling this substance natural is misleading. MK7 is an alien form to our body.
I once tried 2mg of MK7, it gave me horrible headache and couldn't function for a full day.

I also find this thread sad since the thread starter's valid point was so viciously attacked.
Does his nationality have something to do with it?
Then is really sad....

Um....why were you taking 2 mg of mk7?????? That would be why you had the reaction.

[caston]

You really seem to like to post this. Kinda goofy if you ask me.

Sounds like you have just responded with ad hominem. I do like that chart and it is the second time I have posted it but I wouldn't have to post it if people here conducted themselves in a more polite and civilized manor.

BTW I find the idea that MK7 may result in increased clotting to be fascinating. I have a theory that much of aging is actually altruistic in the form of the host destroying itself to protect the surrounding community from infection. If you were taking MK7 your body might suspect that it came from a bacteria or it may trigger mechanisms that the body has to respond to bacterial infection.

That's why I don't think warfarrin is a good idea. As horrible as it sounds if we don't have the technology to fix aging yet we shouldn't keep old people alive with warfarrin. The stroke is meant to happen and if we stop it it will make our society weak.

Edited by caston, 28 March 2010 - 02:15 PM.

[OneScrewLoose]

I make no apologies for name-calling when people come in here with all the answers, reduce a 15-thread debate to "final verdict" decided only by himself, condescendingly tells everyone who disagrees that this isn't science class, and doesn't even provide one study to back it up.

[caston]

I make no apologies for name-calling when people come in here with all the answers, reduce a 15-thread debate to "final verdict" decided only by himself, condescendingly tells everyone who disagrees that this isn't science class, and doesn't even provide one study to back it up.

I can see how that is annoying but you need to set a good example and not let yourself get upset and respond in a way which doesn't give justice to your own research and reasoning skills.

I feel that name calling makes the name caller a smaller man and drags down the overall respect and authority of our forums.

[blackbox]

It is not really an idea. It is a fact. I take 5 to 10mg of MK4 everyday and experience no clotting problem but MK7? forget it. I tried 2mg of MK7 myself, got horrible headache, ran for my prothrombin time monitoring device, checked it, it was lightening fast. I immediately took some aspirin.

....... much of aging is actually altruistic in the form of the host destroying itself to protect the surrounding community from infection. If you were taking MK7 your body might suspect that it came from a bacteria or it may trigger mechanisms that the body has to respond to bacterial infection.....

is an intriguing idea. However clotting problem associated with MK7 is more likely due to its very long plasma half-life, which many MK7-pushing sites claim is a good thing, which to me is just foolish. Our body simply do not like MK7 form as is evident from the fact that most MK7 eventually converts to Mk4.

Edited by blackbox, 28 March 2010 - 02:41 PM.

[blackbox]

To onescrewloose,

Would you accept if I say your avatar is offensive? And didn't the thread starter provide google search page that shows how Japanese have been using MK4 but never MK7 from 50's? Whatever is between you and him, to me, you strike me as an immature person. You should have also taken into account that English is not his native tongue, meaning what you thought offensive may have not been his intention at all.

Edited by blackbox, 28 March 2010 - 02:52 PM.

[OneScrewLoose]

In my ALCAR thread, when niner asked him to provide a source for a comment he made:

"well, frankly you need more knowledge on this. what more can i say? (this is not biochem 301, is it?) sorry."


I suppose it isn't the best example to react like I am, you're right, but this kinda thing really grinds me.

[blackbox]

In my ALCAR thread, when niner asked him to provide a source for a comment he made:

"well, frankly you need more knowledge on this. what more can i say? (this is not biochem 301, is it?) sorry."


I suppose it isn't the best example to react like I am, you're right, but this kinda thing really grinds me.

I just read that thread and there is more to it than you portray it. To me it looks as though Niner was argumentative even though he was wrong. But then I do not want to get into this any deeper. I just feel sorry for an aparantly very smart and intriguing guy who came halfway around the globe.....

Edited by blackbox, 28 March 2010 - 03:36 PM.

[OneScrewLoose]

Why should u feel sorry? I feel he is being arrogant and making claims he can't (or simply won't) substantiate. I feel that anathema to this forum. I am not saying he's wrong, I just want sources. I haven't kept up with this thread cause I am busy right now, but if he has started posting sources, then I retract what I said. But if not, I stick by my immaturity.

[blackbox]

Why should u feel sorry? I feel he is being arrogant and making claims he can't (or simply won't) substantiate. I feel that anathema to this forum. I am not saying he's wrong, I just want sources. I haven't kept up with this thread cause I am busy right now, but if he has started posting sources, then I retract what I said. But if not, I stick by my immaturity.

Didn't he provide the source, the google search results? All answers you so care to look for are all in there. And sure, it is your choice to stick to it as is a free country we live in, i only wish you had decency to allow the same freedom to him that you so value.

[niner]

Why should u feel sorry? I feel he is being arrogant and making claims he can't (or simply won't) substantiate. I feel that anathema to this forum. I am not saying he's wrong, I just want sources. I haven't kept up with this thread cause I am busy right now, but if he has started posting sources, then I retract what I said. But if not, I stick by my immaturity.

Didn't he provide the source, the google search results? All answers you so care to look for are all in there. And sure, it is your choice to stick to it as is a free country we live in, i only wish you had decency to allow the same freedom to him that you so value.

A google search isn't "the source", it's a bunch of noise that may or may not contain a primary source. The OP's first post contained a dangerous and frankly clueless suggestion that people overdose on MK-7. That is irresponsible and foolish. He doesn't seem to understand that MK-4 and MK-7 differ in potency by orders of magnitude. I wouldn't be so hard on him if he wasn't displaying such arrogance and disrespect for the other members of this forum.

[ajnast4r]

Why should u feel sorry? I feel he is being arrogant and making claims he can't (or simply won't) substantiate. I feel that anathema to this forum. I am not saying he's wrong, I just want sources. I haven't kept up with this thread cause I am busy right now, but if he has started posting sources, then I retract what I said. But if not, I stick by my immaturity.

Didn't he provide the source, the google search results? All answers you so care to look for are all in there. And sure, it is your choice to stick to it as is a free country we live in, i only wish you had decency to allow the same freedom to him that you so value.

A google search isn't "the source", it's a bunch of noise that may or may not contain a primary source. The OP's first post contained a dangerous and frankly clueless suggestion that people overdose on MK-7. That is irresponsible and foolish. He doesn't seem to understand that MK-4 and MK-7 differ in potency by orders of magnitude. I wouldn't be so hard on him if he wasn't displaying such arrogance and disrespect for the other members of this forum.

word

[blackbox]

Why should u feel sorry? I feel he is being arrogant and making claims he can't (or simply won't) substantiate. I feel that anathema to this forum. I am not saying he's wrong, I just want sources. I haven't kept up with this thread cause I am busy right now, but if he has started posting sources, then I retract what I said. But if not, I stick by my immaturity.

Didn't he provide the source, the google search results? All answers you so care to look for are all in there. And sure, it is your choice to stick to it as is a free country we live in, i only wish you had decency to allow the same freedom to him that you so value.

A google search isn't "the source", it's a bunch of noise that may or may not contain a primary source. The OP's first post contained a dangerous and frankly clueless suggestion that people overdose on MK-7. That is irresponsible and foolish. He doesn't seem to understand that MK-4 and MK-7 differ in potency by orders of magnitude. I wouldn't be so hard on him if he wasn't displaying such arrogance and disrespect for the other members of this forum.

Now I'll just redirect the exact phrase you have used to Full_Circle to you: You are wrong.
You said, "MK-4 and MK-7 differ in potency by orders of magnitude." This statement cannot be more clueless.
MK7 is converted to MK4 in our body. Need I say more?
Now please feel free to attempt to defend your statement by all unscientific means necessary.

Edited by blackbox, 29 March 2010 - 05:58 AM.

[caston]

If one of you guys met full_circle in person (say at a train station in europe) and started talking to him you'd probably be quite excited to meet a guy that is interested vitamin K2 compared to most people in the world that don't know anything about it. If it turned out that your views didn't match exactly it's still a positive experience to meet another person that is at least far more enlightened than many people out there. It's just that on here we seem to hold high standards even when people come from other countries and cultures. We need to learn from other countries and cultures as much as we can. There will always be misunderstandings between cultures. Things that the other culture thinks is normal but you think is rude or things that you think is rude but the other culture thinks is normal. There are also things that are universally understood by all cultures to be rude. Be careful that you are not falling to a low level and being very rude just because of a cultural misunderstanding.

[caston]

But I guess the way we could really settle this whole mess is to put MK7 in the water supply and let nature sort out of the mess

[Blue]

MK7 is converted to MK4 in our body. Need I say more?

Really? Source please.

[blackbox]

One at a time.
I'll first allow niner, an imminst forum's navigator, to substantiate his statement, "MK-4 and MK-7 differ in potency by orders of magnitude."

Edited by blackbox, 29 March 2010 - 06:27 AM.

[Blue]

One at a time.
I'll first allow niner, an imminst forum's navigator, to substantiate his statement, "MK-4 and MK-7 differ in potency by orders of magnitude."

Why niner answer before you do? This is not a contest where contestants take turns but a forum for sharing information. Do you have something to contribute?

[blackbox]

One at a time.
I'll first allow niner, an imminst forum's navigator, to substantiate his statement, "MK-4 and MK-7 differ in potency by orders of magnitude."

Why niner answer before you do? This is not a contest where contestants take turns but a forum for sharing information. Do you have something to contribute?

You came later. Wait for your turn.

[Blue]

One at a time.
I'll first allow niner, an imminst forum's navigator, to substantiate his statement, "MK-4 and MK-7 differ in potency by orders of magnitude."

Why niner answer before you do? This is not a contest where contestants take turns but a forum for sharing information. Do you have something to contribute?

You came later. Wait for your turn.

Troll.

[bacopa]

this thread has more anger than I've seen in a while...it's becoming like a soap opera...that should be our next project, imminst soap opera streaming tv, featuring, the OP, niner, Blue, and Gary Sinise for good measure.

[blackbox]

One at a time.
I'll first allow niner, an imminst forum's navigator, to substantiate his statement, "MK-4 and MK-7 differ in potency by orders of magnitude."

Why niner answer before you do? This is not a contest where contestants take turns but a forum for sharing information. Do you have something to contribute?

You came later. Wait for your turn.

Troll.

It is interesting that niner and Blue always seem to appear together.

[Logan]

One at a time.
I'll first allow niner, an imminst forum's navigator, to substantiate his statement, "MK-4 and MK-7 differ in potency by orders of magnitude."

Why niner answer before you do? This is not a contest where contestants take turns but a forum for sharing information. Do you have something to contribute?

You came later. Wait for your turn.

Troll.

It is interesting that niner and Blue always seem to appear together.

In college we used to use words like "jackhammer" and "powertool" to describe people like you. Get a life troll. The sad thing is, you probably take pride in your trolling ways.

[caston]

For one can you guys please go back and edit your posts to get rid of the nested quoting. Secondly everyone please view the pyramid of how to disagree I posted a few pages back. Try to avoid discussion that puts you at the bottom of the pyramid. Thirdly its almost at the point where this thread cannot be salvaged to those that have have well thought out and reasoned and well referenced information to post I warn you that it may get lost in the noise.

Edited by caston, 29 March 2010 - 09:20 AM.

[bran319]

MK7 is an alien form to our body.

Our body naturally produces MK-7 as a byproduct of bacterial fermentation in the intestines.

Too bad the OP in this thread doesn't understand the simple concept of providing evidence to support a claim. He seems like he could have a lot to offer. This could've been a great debate.

Oh well, for now I'll stick to MK-7.

[meursault]

One at a time.
I'll first allow niner, an imminst forum's navigator, to substantiate his statement, "MK-4 and MK-7 differ in potency by orders of magnitude."

Why niner answer before you do? This is not a contest where contestants take turns but a forum for sharing information. Do you have something to contribute?

You came later. Wait for your turn.

Troll.

It is interesting that niner and Blue always seem to appear together.

It is interesting that you just joined the forums yesterday.

[OneScrewLoose]

One at a time.
I'll first allow niner, an imminst forum's navigator, to substantiate his statement, "MK-4 and MK-7 differ in potency by orders of magnitude."

Why niner answer before you do? This is not a contest where contestants take turns but a forum for sharing information. Do you have something to contribute?

You came later. Wait for your turn.

Troll.

It is interesting that niner and Blue always seem to appear together.

It is interesting that you just joined the forums yesterday.

LOL

[VespeneGas]

It is interesting that niner and Blue always seem to appear together.

Yeah, funny how some of the more intelligent members of the forums tend to post in the same threads!

Same troll is same, sad thread is sad, kill it all with fire.