62 replies to this topic

[Logan]

It can still take 3-4 weeks despite the fact that I had been on an SSRI (citalopram) prior to this for 4 weeks

Yes, you have to be very patient with antidepressants, especially SSRIs. Sertraline is still quite different than citalopram. You have just started it and it will take a while for it mechanism of action to give you therapeutic benefit, if it does at all.

[Logan]

i was prescribed zoloft although my councilor disapproved of anti depressants. She told me they had too many side effects and that to withdraw from them were hard. As a result i kept the pack and never used them, and they have now expired in use by date. Instead i have tried 5htp, stw(kira, perika) , rhodiola etc you name it and i have not really beaten my depression yet. Wondering whether i actually should have tried the Zoloft 50 mg i was prescribed. :/

How long did you give SJW and what dosage were you using? So you tried both Kira and Perika? Did either of them help at all?

What brand of Rhodiola did you use? I found New Chapter's Rhodiola Force to be pretty damn powerful.

How bad is your depression?

So your seeing a councilor. I guess you have a good relationship with them. Have you ever thought about going to psychodynamic group therapy? Maybe it's something you could talk to your counselor about.

After a while if you really feel like you need to and you have exhausted all options, it might not be a bad idea to try Zoloft. It is the least likely of SSRIs to raise prolactin levels and it is not as hard on your liver as other SSRIs. I took it for years and even drank pretty heavily at times without any problems, but that's just me. I also don't think discontinuing Zoloft is as difficult as other SSRIs, but that of course could depend on the person also. If Zoloft does work for you and you never have any real problems with it, there really is no reason to ever stop taking it. I stopped taking it and it was one of the biggest mistakes I've ever made. I didn't have any discontinuation symptoms, other than a week's worth of withdrawal, but I did have other issues later and tried Zoloft again and for some reason it just did not work for me the way it did before.

I would seriously try to exhaust all options though before starting any antidepressant therapy. This includes exercise, meditation, yoga, supplements(especially fish oil), alternatives like SJW and Rhodiola, and different forms of therapy. Doing whatever you can to boost self esteem and form positive relationships may help with your mental health. These things sometimes can be easier achieved after intensive therapy of some form.

Sometimes I think life is just too damn short, especially youth, and we need to resort to whatever we can in order to feel good and live a full and happy life. If this means taking antidepressants, than that is better than feeling miserable and not experience the wonderment and excitement that can come along with being young and strong.

[Rain]

i found tyrosine did almost nothing at 1g, is it dangerous to try at 2g or even 3g? possibly higher?

[Pragmatist90]

I noticed the same thing with tyrosine at 1 gram, it barely yielded any noticeable effects. I am thinking of trying 1.5 grams, maybe 2 grams if research condones its safety.

[polybi]

I noticed the same thing with tyrosine at 1 gram, it barely yielded any noticeable effects. I am thinking of trying 1.5 grams, maybe 2 grams if research condones its safety.

its rate limited so only so much can be turned into dopamine anyway so i think you should be fine. 2 grams is fine.

[Rain]

I noticed the same thing with tyrosine at 1 gram, it barely yielded any noticeable effects. I am thinking of trying 1.5 grams, maybe 2 grams if research condones its safety.

its rate limited so only so much can be turned into dopamine anyway so i think you should be fine. 2 grams is fine.

Okay thanks.

[shifter]

What do you think of the stack
5mg selepryl (selegiline)
500mg L-Tyrosine
500mg D-Phenylalanine (DPA)

The idea would be to have my body use its resources, naturally to make me feel good/alert rather than have to shove a dose of PEA on occasion and tell my brain to like it or lump it.


As well as my usual
3-4g piracetam (single dose per day)
800mg oxiracteam (on occasion)
750mg cdp citicholine (should I have more with that much piracetam or bolster with some DMAE which I still have?)

I noticed the same thing with tyrosine at 1 gram, it barely yielded any noticeable effects. I am thinking of trying 1.5 grams, maybe 2 grams if research condones its safety.

its rate limited so only so much can be turned into dopamine anyway so i think you should be fine. 2 grams is fine.

Okay thanks.

[chrono]

5mg selepryl (selegiline)

How old are you?

[shifter]

28. When I went to the doctor, he prescribed me this dosage in the tablet form. (but to keep him out of potential trouble due to the fact its licenced for parkinsons disease only I now order it online).

At the time, my emotions were best described as flat. I felt almost nothing. No joy, no anxiety (which in itself doesn't bother me) but to not feel anything before going into a full contact ring karate fight where I used to feel sick for a week before it, I thought was a sign of something wrong. Same as performing dance in front of hundreds of people. I am shy and introverted. So why are all the extroverts nervous as hell and I dont feel anything??

I thought dopamine may be a problem which I know can be low from a lack of sleep, and working 2 full time jobs doesn't give me optimal sleep.

All I can say is when I take this, I feel much more adventurous, all my emotions are potentiated and I feel like jumping out of my introverted shell and doing things with friends or work etc.

and this is not from other nootropics, I got these effects before I tried anything else at the time.

5mg selepryl (selegiline)

How old are you?

[chrono]

Gotcha. 5mg is a high daily dose for someone of your age (for life extension purposes), but I'm glad to hear it helps you so much!

[Pragmatist90]

Shifter, where do you get your selegine from ? Are selegine and Deprenyl the same thing ?

[polybi]

Shifter, where do you get your selegine from ? Are selegine and Deprenyl the same thing ?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Deprenyl+&l=1

[Pragmatist90]

I'm thinking of trying one more final supplement (for now) to complement my sertraline which i have been taking for less than 2 weeks so far. I'm thinking either Selegine or P.E.A. Is it safe to combine Deprenyl with an SSRI like Zoloft ? Which one do you guys think would suit me better ?

[shifter]

It is a bad idea to combine MAO's and SSRI's together. You may end up with seratonin syndrome which can result in death. Its one or the other I'm afraid.

I'm thinking of trying one more final supplement (for now) to complement my sertraline which i have been taking for less than 2 weeks so far. I'm thinking either Selegine or P.E.A. Is it safe to combine Deprenyl with an SSRI like Zoloft ? Which one do you guys think would suit me better ?

[Pragmatist90]

But is it safe to combine Sertraline and P.E.A. ? I've been reading that P.E.A. is the "endogenous amphetamine", and may boost my motivation and focus, which is what i've been looking for to get closest to that adderall 'high'.

[chrono]

I'm thinking either Selegine or P.E.A. Is it safe to combine Deprenyl with an SSRI like Zoloft ? Which one do you guys think would suit me better ?

Deprenyl + SSRI has the possibility of being a very bad combination. Can potentially lead to serotonin syndrome.

Which one do you guys think would suit me better ?

In the context of this thread, deprenyl is the obvious choice, as it works on the dopamine system and has an effect on focus, motivation and attention. Zoloft will only modulate these to the extent that they are caused by your depression, i.e. probably not with the magnitude you seem to be looking for. If you do decide to switch to deprenyl, taper off the zoloft, and wait at least a couple weeks after you're done.

There are probably effective antidepressants which are safe to use with deprenyl, or you may find that deprenyl boosts your mood in enough ways that you don't need one.

[Pragmatist90]

Alright well I just placed an order for 750 mg 60 capsules of PEA. From what i've read this apparently can really yield boosts in motivation/focus/mood that I am looking for while waiting for the sertraline to take full effect. However it has a short half-life and reportedly has its primary effects for just about 90 minutes at a time. What daily dosage of PEA is recommended to sustain the effects ?

[Rain]

Is deprenyl the type of drug that you have to take long term before the effects are felt?

For those which are young, it was recommended that 1ml 3-4 times a week, will this really do anything? i'm afraid of even buying it as it will do nothing& i will not wanting to be increasing my dose too high for the effects.

[Pragmatist90]

So I took a 40 mg XR Vyvanse pill that I received from a friend; i've never tried Vyvanse before and I have to say I like it. I took it 2 hours ago, and I was wondering if taking 500 mg of L-Tyrosine would potentiate the effects of the Vyvanse.

Thanks

[Pragmatist90]

Also, what about taking it with 300 mg of Alpha-GPC and 800 mg of Oxiracetam , or alternatively with L-Huperzine A ? Out of all these what would make the best combination with the Vyvanse ?

[alpha2A]

Zoloft is a good drug, better and cleaner than most SSRIs IMO.

I agree.  It's my conclusion that of the SSRIs, only citalopram/escitalopram sometimes has advantages over it.

How long have you been taking Zoloft? You may want to consider going up to 100 mg and see how you feel. After this, you might not feel the need to supplement anything to help with ADD.

You may have mentioned this already, sorry if you did, but are you taking fish oil? I found that I felt and functioned considerably better after adding a daily dose of 3 or 4 grams of fish oil to my regimen while I was taking Zoloft.

I would give Zoloft more time and maybe increase the dose to 100 mg before thinking about using Adderall, Ritalin, Vyvanse, or Provigil.

SSRIs are not usually effective in the treatment of ADD, but to the extent that ADD symptoms are aggravated by depression, some relief can be expected from successful treatment of the depression.  It may therefore be worthwhile to wait and see if the situation improves due to the Zoloft alone.

Also, SSRIs are not without risks and side-effects.  The sexual side effects are particularly well-known and increase with dose, and this goes for diarrhea as well.  Apathy is a less well-known potential adverse effect, and this is something to carefully watch out for in cases where motivation is already lacking.  If an increase in the dose of Zoloft were to result in apathy, the need for stimulants would be increased, rather than diminished, and the dose requirements would be higher.  Finally, there is a risk for a withdrawal syndrome, which can be quite protracted, and there are whole websites dedicated to this problem.

In closing, an increased dose of the Zoloft may be beneficial, but beware of the potential pitfalls - more is not always merrier.

[alpha2A]

Alright well I just placed an order for 750 mg 60 capsules of PEA. From what i've read this apparently can really yield boosts in motivation/focus/mood that I am looking for while waiting for the sertraline to take full effect. However it has a short half-life and reportedly has its primary effects for just about 90 minutes at a time.

See my PEA article at http://www.imminst.o...o...st&p=397521

In short: PEA will hardly work at all in the absence of MAO inhibition.  Selegiline (l-deprenyl) and rasagiline are the MAO-inhibitors of choice for this purpose.

Even with MAO-inhibition the half-life of PEA is much too short, and in my experience, too short to be useful.

What daily dosage of PEA is recommended to sustain the effects ?

PEA must be taken frequently, as long as its effects are required.  Furthermore, there is a crash when the effects wear off.  In other words, once you start taking it, you need to dose it repeatedly until you're ready to take the crash, such as when going to bed.

I used PEA aqueous solution, and I found that I had to drink of it continously, every 5-15 minutes or so.  Capsules will be required somewhat less frequently than the solution.

The frequent ups and downs from the fluctuating levels of PEA will result in the failure to sustain stable working memory function.  This is precisely what you want to avoid in ADHD.  If this is what you're trying to treat, use methylphenidate or an amphetamine based stimulants instead of PEA.

PEA works more acceptably for the treatment of depression, but even here, the frequent ups and downs are a problem.

Beware of the hypertensive effects too.

So I took a 40 mg XR Vyvanse pill that I received from a friend; i've never tried Vyvanse before and I have to say I like it. I took it 2 hours ago, and I was wondering if taking 500 mg of L-Tyrosine would potentiate the effects of the Vyvanse

So you tried amphetamine for the first time, and already seek to potentiate its effects?  This does not bode well.

Tyrosine might help a little, but you probably won't notice it.  To find out, you need to try.

Also, what about taking it with 300 mg of Alpha-GPC and 800 mg of Oxiracetam , or alternatively with L-Huperzine A ? Out of all these what would make the best combination with the Vyvanse ?

Only you can tell what works best for you.  There's no shortcut to trying them all, including combinations.  I see no reason why you could not combine all of them.  However, start with one at a time, and work systematically.  Otherwise, you will not know what the different drugs are contributing to the whole.

[alpha2A]

I'm thinking either Selegine or P.E.A. Is it safe to combine Deprenyl with an SSRI like Zoloft ? Which one do you guys think would suit me better ?

Deprenyl + SSRI has the possibility of being a very bad combination. Can potentially lead to serotonin syndrome.

"Possiblity" and "potentially" are the keywords here, but they should be taken seriously.  That said, it seems more probable that no serious adverse effects will occur from the combination, and there is at least one study indicating the safe treatment of depressed Parkinsonian patients on selegiline with a SSRI (I think it was citalopram).  I've briefly used such a combination myself (sertraline was the SSRI involved).  I would say that adding selegiline to an existing SSRI regimen is safer than vice versa, because significant MAO-A inhibition takes time to develop with so-called MAO-B selective doses of selegiline, and this means there should be time to cease either drug before serious toxicity develops.  It can be done the other way around too, if one starts with low doses of the SSRI.  25 mg sertraline added to a 10 mg chronic selegiline regimen would be unlikely to kill anyone.  Adding 200 mg (the max dose of sertraline) to the same regimen would be a definite risk.  Before experimenting at all with this combination, one should have an antidote available.  The classic antipsychotic chlorpromazine will work, but the old antihistamine cyproheptadine is superior and can be had without a prescription as Periactin - the key feature is serotonin 5-HT2A-receptor antagonism.  One should also be familiar with the spectrum of effects of serotonin toxicity, in order to better avoid toxicity and/or take the antidote in time if necessary.  Death seems to occur from hyperthermia.

Which one do you guys think would suit me better ?

In the context of this thread, deprenyl is the obvious choice, as it works on the dopamine system and has an effect on focus, motivation and attention. Zoloft will only modulate these to the extent that they are caused by your depression, i.e. probably not with the magnitude you seem to be looking for. If you do decide to switch to deprenyl, taper off the zoloft, and wait at least a couple weeks after you're done.

There are probably effective antidepressants which are safe to use with deprenyl, or you may find that deprenyl boosts your mood in enough ways that you don't need one.

It's definitely not necessary to wait two weeks after the stopping the Zoloft, as its half-life is only around one day, and since selegiline does not produce peak MAO-A inhibition very quickly at lhe usual doses.

[chrono]

I'm currently taking 1-3x100mg tramadol daily for back pain, going on about two years now. I'm very interested in trying selegiline for the possibility of treating my dopamine-related problems in the long-term. But I think I'm going to wait; several people have said this should be safe, but the possible consequences are pretty scary to risk on "probably." (although the risk is also based on a "possibly")

[Pragmatist90]

Alright so today I finally received my 750 mg PEA shipment. I haven't taken it yet, but I am planning on dosing it at 1 pill first, then a 2nd pill 15 minutes later to make 1.5 grams on my first try of PEA. Also, is it safe to take adderall while on PEA ? I have some adderall and was wondering if they can be combined, or after how long when on the PEA is it ok to take the amphetamine.

[shifter]

If you have no MAO-B inhibition you may be dissapointed with the results. I wonder if you'll also build some sort of tolerance to it before you could enjoy its full potential.

Also from my experience it's better to empty the pills into water and drink it (very fast) down. That way, its in and out of your gut ASAP and moving along as fast as the water.

This is basically how the timing works

No cap = 5 minutes before first effects noticed
Gelatin cap = 15 minutes before first effects noticed
Vege cap = around 45 minutes before first effects noticed (and for some reason the effect was not as strong with this brand or maybe sat in gut too long as water would have left the stomach and then this could have been slowly moving around being destroyed by the MAO in the gut (even though on MAO inhibitors), or just too slow to move so only getting a slow stream of PEA at once.

That is just from my experience though.

Never attempt to leave this stuff under the tongue, just gulp it down then rinse mouth with water (cant imagine its good for your teeth).

Alright so today I finally received my 750 mg PEA shipment. I haven't taken it yet, but I am planning on dosing it at 1 pill first, then a 2nd pill 15 minutes later to make 1.5 grams on my first try of PEA. Also, is it safe to take adderall while on PEA ? I have some adderall and was wondering if they can be combined, or after how long when on the PEA is it ok to take the amphetamine.

[Pragmatist90]

Shifter, what daily dosage do you consume of the PEA ? Since the effects dissipate so fast, its understandable that people would take high doses. Today I took 2.5 grams total

[Logan]

Dude, one thing at a time. Are you in school right now? Do you have a major ongoing workload that requires super productivity? Maybe I forgot about something you mentioned in your first post.

Why add PEA to adderall? Just see if Adderall gives you what you are looking for on it's own.

If you don't have any reason to be extremely focused and productive at this time, I really think you should just give Zoloft some time, maybe increase the dose to 100 in a week or so, take fish oil, and exercise moderately 4 to 5 days a week.

[shifter]

I would never take PEA on a daily basis. Just something to have to enhance a social outing or event.

2.5 grams is way too much, and top up doses will not give you extra 'kicks'. It will maintain a mild form of the buzz but you wont sustain the initial 'WHOA!' effect.

1st time I took PEA, was about 1 gram and it lasted me half the night (I was also on selegiline). This is not something you want to take everyday. It would not be healthy at least at those dosages. I think for anti depressant type effects, this stuff was used in dosages less than 100mg per day.

When this stuff breaks down in the brain, it is not kind. So be careful.

Shifter, what daily dosage do you consume of the PEA ? Since the effects dissipate so fast, its understandable that people would take high doses. Today I took 2.5 grams total

[chrono]

When this stuff breaks down in the brain, it is not kind. So be careful.

I think deprenyl has its own mechanism to prevent oxidative stress, but otherwise an antioxidant like NAC or ALA might be a good idea?